NFL Super Bowl XLVI |OT| Matchup More Unwanted Than Madonna's Halftime Show

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KingGondo said:
Pats will be back at least a couple more times with Brady, and I'd be surprised if they don't win another before he retires.

They'll shore up the weak spots in their defense through the draft and develop more of a vertical passing game.
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Brady underthrew slow ass Gronk on a deep seam by about 15 yards. If they develop a vertical passing game...can old man Brady still make the throws?
 
KingGondo said:
Pats will be back at least a couple more times with Brady, and I'd be surprised if they don't win another before he retires.

They'll shore up the weak spots in their defense through the draft and develop more of a vertical passing game.
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a couple? I dunno about that, Tammi is 34. It'll be interesting to see how his age progression is. I see 1 max potential left
 
Brady, if anything, proves Marino is the best QB ever. Nobody will deny Brady, as he is now, destroys his old self. But the team around him has just gotten worse and worse.
 
Futurevoid said:
Typical overreaction from the media. I agree with you but at the same time if you'd ask me which Manning I'd want to take into a big game or the post season? I'd choose Eli. He has something in those spots that Petyon lacks despite his brother being one of the greatest to ever play the position, IMO.

As to Brady? He's a first ballot HOF'er regardless if he ever wins another one or not.
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I understand that view, Eli has been spectacular in the 4th this year and always cool under pressure in a way Peyton hasn't. That said I believe there is a much bigger chance of not even needing a final winning drive with Peyton in the game (pre injury Peyton of course).

That said what if Tyree doesn't make a circus catch four years ago, all of a sudden Eli isn't viewed in the same way (and Brady is viewed as the king of the universe). That is kind of what I am getting at, we put so much emphasis on this one game when completely random crazy shit determines what happens at times. What if the hail mary was randomly caught by Gronk, now Eli is not a two time winner, Brady greatest ever, for what, a jump ball?
 
MiamiWesker said:
I understand that view, Eli has been spectacular in the 4th this year and always cool under pressure in a way Peyton hasn't. That said I believe there is a much bigger chance of not even needing a final winning drive with Peyton in the game.

That said what if Tyree doesn't make a circus catch four years ago, all of a sudden Eli isn't viewed in the same way (and Brady is viewed as the king of the universe). That is kind of what I am getting at, we put so much emphasis on this one game when completely random crazy shit determines what happens at times. What if the hail mary was randomly caught by Gronk, now Eli is not a two time winner, Brady greatest ever, for what, a jump ball?
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Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, I guess.
 
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Eli's got heart, kid > Peyton is a soulless machine.
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:jnc I don't know about that now. There's no way to say what I said without it sounding like that but it's not the intent. Eli just plays big in very big spots.

There are variables to take into account. Quality of team being a big one.

MiamiWesker said:
That said what if Tyree doesn't make a circus catch four years ago, all of a sudden Eli isn't viewed in the same way (and Brady is viewed as the king of the universe). That is kind of what I am getting at, we put so much emphasis on this one game when completely random crazy shit determines what happens at times. What if the hail mary was randomly caught by Gronk, now Eli is not a two time winner, Brady greatest ever, for what, a jump ball?
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What is the sky wasn't blue? Who cares? Seriously, I hate nothing more than "what if" scenarios in sports. You could apply that logic to just about every game ever played and make an argument why the winning team shouldn't have won. What if this guy caught this ball at this moment? What if this other guy didn't fumble that ball in a big spot. It's all conjecture and bullshit, IMO. It happened the way it happened. Nothing much more to say. No offense intended but legacies are made on the outcome. Not what what ifs. For better or worse.
 
jakncoke said:
Yeah why havent the Saints resigned him to a long term deal, do they want to return to the Aints era
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Last I saw both sides were waiting until the offseason to worry about it. No doubt they're waiting to see how much Matt Flynn pulls in before committing to a dollar amount.
 
Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Personally, I wouldn't drop Ochocinco right away at this point.
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Let's use the cliche everybody at ESPN uses for players who 'underperformed' : Let's give him a full offseason in the system and see how he does, I don't know how his contract looks with bonuses and such, but cutting him now makes no sense.
 
Futurevoid said:
What is the sky wasn't blue? Who cares? Seriously, I hate nothing more than "what if" scenarios. You could apply that logic to just about every game ever played. What if this guy caught this ball at this moment? What if this other guys didn't fumble that ball in a big spot. It's all conjecture and bullshit, IMO. No offense.
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I am not saying this as who deserves to win. The Giants won, they deserve it, what ifs dont matter, they made the plays period. I am looking at this from the point of view of looking at an individuals entire career and legacy and having it almost always boiled down to these few championship games where there are a ton of other players and moving parts that all effect the outcome.

First take is talking about it now. Getting to the SB and losing shouldn't be a punishment on ones legacy. There are teams that have not gotten to a SB in like 28 fucking years, I would love to be a super bowl loser! :(
 
Dutch Patriot said:
Let's use the cliche everybody at ESPN uses for players who 'underperformed' : Let's give him a full offseason in the system and see how he does, I don't know how his contract looks with bonuses and such, but cutting him now makes no sense.
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The cliches work fine in this case.

We are making the transition to McDaniel's offense for next season and Ochocinco is still under contract. Worse case scenario is we trade or release him, there is no risk here.
 
MiamiWesker said:
I am looking at this from the point of view of looking at an individuals entire career and legacy and having it almost always boiled down to these few championship games where there are a ton of other players and moving parts that all effect the outcome.
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I hear ya and agree to an extent but well they don't call the Super Bowl the biggest stage for nothing. I think more reasonable folks will and should certainly look at the body of a players entire career but as far as QB's are concerned it's all about the wins and when you get those in the big game it creates the type of legacy you're talking about.
 
Skiesofwonder said:
The Is Wes Welker to blame for drop? Conversation on First Take is fricken hilarious.

Edit:

Sportsnation Poll:

Which Quarterback would you rather over the remainder of their careers?

Tom Brady: 46%
Eli Manning: 54%

(over 30,000 votes)

Oh my how times have changed.
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Changed in the last 2 days that is
stHlr.jpg
 
Is Heavy the dude that was arguing that Montana wasn't as good as any of the current top ten qbs?
 
MiamiWesker said:
What do you guys think of SBs and legacies, for instance the people that say Eli is now better than Peyton, which is absurd (it could happen in the future but for now Eli has a long way to go). Also Brady's legacy now losing in two Super Bowls is a bigger blemish than not making the SB. If Brady ended his career only winning 3 SBs and never going back he would probably be more highly regarded than losing two, again absurd. Teams win championships, not individual players. Determining a players legacy based on what happens in one game, one game (full of luck and strange bounces that could easily change history) where an entire team is responsible for the outcome is ridiculous. I understand winning a championship is very important and it is significant but I would never use it as a determining factor in judging one players overall career.
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Media needs to something to write about. From hero to goat in a minute, there's no middle, you're either one or the other. I don't even think the pass was all that bad, very definition of trying to throw a receiver to green. Bit high, but still catchable. I've seen him make it before, bad break.

What if the Eagles, McNabb specifically, weren't terrible on offense in the first half of 39? What would've happened if the Panthers had a good coach, who didn't start chasing points, and trusted his team? What if they didn't cheat against the Rams?

Fuck, total fraud.....
 
Futurevoid said:
Chase Blackburn (LB) - I love you Chase, but I don't see him coming back. He may be at camp, but he'll get bypassed by younger
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You want to run down this road again? :P

I think he should be re-signed, at least on a one or two year deal. He's a ST player and can provide a spot starting in a pinch. I guess it mostly depends how much guys like Herzlich and Greg Jones grow.

There's a lot of variables going on. Osi leaves, possible. Will that allow them to move Kiwanuka back to end? They can have Williams slide at SLB at that point and allow Goff, Blackburn, and Herzlich to battle the middle.
 
LJ11 said:
Media needs to something to write about. From hero to goat in a minute, there's no middle, you're either one or the other. I don't even think the pass was all that bad, very definition of trying to throw a receiver to green. Bit high, but still catchable. I've seen him make it before, bad break.

What if the Eagles, McNabb specifically, weren't terrible on offense in the first half of 39? What would've happened if the Panthers had a good coach, who didn't start chasing points, and trusted his team? What if they didn't cheat against the Rams?

Fuck, total fraud.....
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Come on, we both know first halves don't matter in Super Bowls. The only thing that matters is the fourth quarter!
 
Striker said:
You want to run down this road again? :P
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Yes.:) We need to develop these younger guys and with a full offseason I think the team can do that.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Chase back. He's a high quality guy. When it comes to that final 53 man roster, I don't know how much he makes it over the younger guys is all.

Striker said:
Osi leaves, possible. Will that allow them to move Kiwanuka back to end? They can have Williams slide at SLB at that point and allow Goff, Blackburn, and Herzlich to battle the middle.
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All possible. I think Kiwi playing more end is a definite if Osi departs.
 
KingGondo said:
Pats will be back at least a couple more times with Brady, and I'd be surprised if they don't win another before he retires.

They'll shore up the weak spots in their defense through the draft and develop more of a vertical passing game.
Click to expand...

Pats are lucky their divisional rivals aren't very good, and border on incompetent. They just roll through them every year, no QBs to challenge the throne.

Edit: I'm also wondering what Brady has left in that arm, his deepball was great, now not so much. Doesn't throw deep anymore, so you're not going to be good at something you don't do often. Question is, how much can be attributed to a decline in skill vs the talent around him?
 
LJ11 said:
Pats are lucky their divisional rivals aren't very good, and border on incompetent. They just roll through them every year, no QBs to challenge the throne.
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I think Fitzpatrick gets more shit than he deserves. I doubt Buffalo will ever cater to him when it matters.

Flynn to Miami would be pretty fun.

Mark Sanchez...:jnc
 
The biggest lesson I learned from yesterday is that A-God is A-God in everything he does. He's a natural on TV as well based on his time on the pre-game. Since Flynn will usurp him this year at QB I guess it's a good time to start looking into other careers. Smart man.
 
eznark said:
Come on, we both know first halves don't matter in Super Bowls. The only thing that matters is the fourth quarter!
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Specifically the last 5 minutes of the fourth quarter. That is when I put it on and watch. Unless it is a blow out then I just ignore the whole thing.

I am happy Brady lost, I never have liked him and hope he never wins again. Same with the Saints, and Cowboys. (Puts on flame shield, I probably just made a bunch of enemies lol)
 
njean777 said:
Specifically the last 5 minutes of the fourth quarter. That is when I put it on and watch. Unless it is a blow out then I just ignore the whole thing.

I am happy Brady lost, I never have liked him and hope he never wins again. Same with the Saints, and Cowboys. (Puts on flame shield, I probably just made a bunch of enemies lol)
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Doubt it, no one gives a shit about the guy who watches five minutes of football a year.
 
I truly do not understand the hate for Brady, all the hate is annoying, did he fuck your girl or something? Seriously tell me why do you hate Brady other than you wish he was your qb.
 
GhostRidah said:
I truly do not understand the hate for Brady, all the hate is annoying, did he fuck your girl or something? Seriously tell me why do you hate Brady other than you wish he was your qb.
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Tammi is the devil, went to michigan, plays on the Pats which knocked the Steelers out of the playoffs a few times. This is more than enough for me to hate him with a passion, I've hated people in real life for way more trivial reasons!
 
LJ11 said:
Pats are lucky their divisional rivals aren't very good, and border on incompetent. They just roll through them every year, no QBs to challenge the throne.

Edit: I'm also wondering what Brady has left in that arm, his deepball was great, now not so much. Doesn't throw deep anymore, so you're not going to be good at something you don't do often. Question is, how much can be attributed to a decline in skill vs the talent around him?
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I think it's probably almost a case of atrophy. He doesn't throw deep because it's not in their game, so when he does throw deep he doesn't have the feel for it.

Or he has dead arm from carrying a purse.
 
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