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[Dark Octave]

Can you import a character from ME 2 but switch genders?

I think that thread is on the OT side.

 

[Arjen]

I have a problem with the entire premise of Mass Effect 3. The Reapers have been established as pretty much unstoppable. Whenever they've decided to invade, they have fucked up everything to the point where almost nothing exists anymore and the universe has to start from scratch because everything got screwed up completely.

The fact that Shepard can have a whole adventure during a Reaper invasion is already weird to me. In ME1 it took everyone's everything to beat a single Reaper. All of the Reapers should destroy everything in minutes, much less a single small planet like Earth.

I have no idea what the correct answer would be where I would be happy with how the Reaper invasion story is presented, so it's not the most valid of complaints, but this is something I can't not think about whenever I see ME3.

Well, in ME1 it wasn't just sovereign attacking the citadel, there were alot of geth ships to.

 

[Coxswain]

I have a problem with the entire premise of Mass Effect 3. The Reapers have been established as pretty much unstoppable. Whenever they've decided to invade, they have fucked up everything to the point where almost nothing exists anymore and the universe has to start from scratch because everything got screwed up completely.

The fact that Shepard can have a whole adventure during a Reaper invasion is already weird to me. In ME1 it took everyone's everything to beat a single Reaper. All of the Reapers should destroy everything in minutes, much less a single small planet like Earth.

I have no idea what the correct answer would be where I would be happy with how the Reaper invasion story is presented, so it's not the most valid of complaints, but this is something I can't not think about whenever I see ME3.

The Reapers were never built up as 100% unstoppable, even in ME1, unless you assumed that everything Sovereign said was an objective, fact-by-fact account rather than the taunting of a big, evil blowhard, despite evidence to the contrary.

For instance, it's established that A) the Reapers were able to instantly cut off the head of the current galactic civilization, switching off the Citadel, locking down all of the Mass Relays, isolating every individual planet, and gaining access to essentially all of the information that ever existed about every single part of the Prothean empire, and it's also established that B) It still took hundreds of years before they managed to finish the job. I thought it was made very clear (even back in 2007) that the reason the Reapers were always able to execute their plan had less to do with them being some godlike, unstoppable military force, and more to do with the fact that they controlled the information and the communication of the civilizations that they attacked. Not that they aren't far and away the most powerful military in the setting, but not to the point where they can shrug off a concerted resistance effort without having to actually wage a serious war.

(Incidentally, the ending of ME1 also wasn't exactly 'All the Citadel fleets versus Sovereign'. Sovereign attacked alongside an entire Geth armada, which could easily have been comparable to the Turian fleet in and of itself. Sovereign was the toughest nut to crack, to be sure, and the story kind of ignored the Geth at that point, but I don't think they were meant to play an insignificant part in that attack.)

 

[Wiggum2007]

This may be covered in the full game, but as the reapers started their invasion Earth why didn't they just shut down the Charon relay? Then Shepard would be stuck in Sol and the reapers win. I also agree that it should be trivial to convince all of the other races to work together or face EXTINCTION, but I guess that would make for a pretty short game.

Their ability to control the relays is tied to the Citadel, which they cannot signal anymore and you stopped Sovereign from manually activating in ME1. That's why the reapers had to take several months/years to fly back to the galaxy rather than instantly through the Citadel, why they cannot show down the relays, and not to mention they don't get all the records, census data, etc. from the Citadel. So now rather than systematically wiping out the galaxy system by system, they may actually face an organized threat. Edit: What he said ^^^

Except apparently every race is too busy with their own shit to care about the reapers :/

 

[Confidence Man]

Exactly. The player is completely detached from what is going on. There's no familiarity, no connection, and no association. Even characters like Vega are guilty of this, as the game assumes an established relationship with him.

The game should have started with Shepard preparing for his/her trial. Anderson would suggest Shepard unwind a bit before the hearing, blow off some steam, and get some fresh air so he/she is ready for what is bound to be gruelling legal mud slinging.

At this point you're given a bit of freedom to wander around an Earth based mini-hub. You can speak to a few people, maybe meet some familiar faces from the past games, and get some solid footing as to what Earth looks like. Give the player the ability to control the pacing, a sense of empowerment. Hell, even play with them a bit. Allow them to check out where the Normandy is, grounded by the Alliance. Let them see it in front of them, but have a guard prevent Shepard from boarding. Show players something they own, and prevent them from accessing it.

Then, I don't know, have someone suggest Shepard go to the gun range as somebody wants to meet them. There you meet Ashley/Kaiden, and he/she introduces you to Vega. Use this as a means to tutorial some basic shooting/cover mechanics against targets, or even a friendly (and cheesy) non-lethal shoot out against one of the above two.

After doing all of this, and having the freedom to go about at your own pace, you make the choice to attend your trial. Just a couple of opening questions as well as the ability to respond however you'd like, and boom, Reapers emerges from the clouds above. Bam, explosion, rarr rarr, and the rest of the tutorial follows much like the demo did, travelling across/through many of the locations you saw/explored just previously in the hub, watching the familiar sights torn to shreds by towering Reapers, as the people you were just speaking to are running in fear and being BZZ LASER BEAMED to death, as you make your way to the Normandy you can now board (or are picked up by Ash/Kaiden, whatever).

BioWare, hire me to make your introductions because I'm awesome and better.

Would've been nice. Of course the whole premise that Reapers suddenly appear at Earth with basically no warning is a little absurd. Even in the demo it's silly. They lose contact with outer colonies, then in the space of a minute they lose contact with the moon and Reapers are blowing shit up, right when Shepard is called in. It's cringe-worthy in how hard it's trying to be Hollywood.

My ideal intro would assume the invasion already happened and Earth is decimated, while Shepard is regrouping with Anderson et al on the Citadel. You would get an idea what happened on Earth by having survivors of the attack tell the council what happened, showing flashbacks of the destruction through their eyes.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Script discussion is a fine line, as vague as you might be. A lot of people are sensitive to unintentional hinting at events that transpire. Sometimes people don't really realise they're doing it.

Not my intention to be spoilerish, tho in the end we all know how this is gona end.

Not spoiler, just a vague reasurance:

Spoiler

One thing tho, a lot of us think that players are gona spend most of their time doing menial tasks to convince the council, but from what i understand thats not the case, the sense of urgency seems to be well implemented but they used the same "tool" to solve every problem.

It end´s up being a conspiracy nutjob´s wet dream... Pizza delivery is late... Reapers are substituting the pizza guys with indoctrinated pawns to poison you.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Well, in ME1 it wasn't just sovereign attacking the citadel, there were alot of geth ships to.

But it felt like SUCH an amazing invasion, even with just one Reaper. The entire Citadel fleet was focusing on the attack and you saw how much it took to bring the Reaper down.

Here? Oh look they've entered our atmosphere LOL.

 

[CorrisD]

Exactly. The player is completely detached from what is going on. There's no familiarity, no connection, and no association. Even characters like Vega are guilty of this, as the game assumes an established relationship with him.

The game should have started with Shepard preparing for his/her trial. Anderson would suggest Shepard unwind a bit before the hearing, blow off some steam, and get some fresh air so he/she is ready for what is bound to be gruelling legal mud slinging.

At this point you're given a bit of freedom to wander around an Earth based mini-hub. You can speak to a few people, maybe meet some familiar faces from the past games, and get some solid footing as to what Earth looks like. Give the player the ability to control the pacing, a sense of empowerment. Hell, even play with them a bit. Allow them to check out where the Normandy is, grounded by the Alliance. Let them see it in front of them, but have a guard prevent Shepard from boarding. Show players something they own, and prevent them from accessing it.

Then, I don't know, have someone suggest Shepard go to the gun range as somebody wants to meet them. There you meet Ashley/Kaiden, and he/she introduces you to Vega. Use this as a means to tutorial some basic shooting/cover mechanics against targets, or even a friendly (and cheesy) non-lethal shoot out against one of the above two.

After doing all of this, and having the freedom to go about at your own pace, you make the choice to attend your trial. Just a couple of opening questions as well as the ability to respond however you'd like, and boom, Reapers emerges from the clouds above. Bam, explosion, rarr rarr, and the rest of the tutorial follows much like the demo did, travelling across/through many of the locations you saw/explored just previously in the hub, watching the familiar sights torn to shreds by towering Reapers, as the people you were just speaking to are running in fear and being BZZ LASER BEAMED to death, as you make your way to the Normandy you can now board (or are picked up by Ash/Kaiden, whatever).

BioWare, hire me to make your introductions because I'm awesome and better.

Heh, I really don't know why they didn't do something like this, it seems like it would have been a simple start, we've never been able to visit earth so it would have been nice to have a good walk around before everything goes to pot.

Would have been awesome to say, visit a Shepard memorial considering everyone thought he was dead in ME2, these sort of little things would have been great for explaining the backstory of the games.

 

[cackhyena]

Controls are still goofy in this series. Guns actually have some pop this go 'round, but the movement is still kinda shitty. Feels like I'm half floating or skating everywhere I go. Ugh. I'll wait for a price drop to see the end of the trilogy.

 

[FGMPR]

It's such a missed oppertunity, they could use the trial to recap all the events and choices you made.
And how the hell are new players supposed to know why Shepard was on trial? Hell if you didn't play arrival even ME1 and ME2 players could have no clue.
Really weird decission

I never played the DLC and I have no clue. It's such bullshit that I'm missing an important link in the story because I didn't pony up for some DLC, imo.

 

[lefantome]

I have a problem with the entire premise of Mass Effect 3. The Reapers have been established as pretty much unstoppable. Whenever they've decided to invade, they have fucked up everything to the point where almost nothing exists anymore and the universe has to start from scratch because everything got screwed up completely.

The fact that Shepard can have a whole adventure during a Reaper invasion is already weird to me. In ME1 it took everyone's everything to beat a single Reaper. All of the Reapers should destroy everything in minutes, much less a single small planet like Earth.

I have no idea what the correct answer would be where I would be happy with how the Reaper invasion story is presented, so it's not the most valid of complaints, but this is something I can't not think about whenever I see ME3.

they really messed up the lore of ME1 that's sad

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

I have a problem with the entire premise of Mass Effect 3. The Reapers have been established as pretty much unstoppable. Whenever they've decided to invade, they have fucked up everything to the point where almost nothing exists anymore and the universe has to start from scratch because everything got screwed up completely.

The fact that Shepard can have a whole adventure during a Reaper invasion is already weird to me. In ME1 it took everyone's everything to beat a single Reaper. All of the Reapers should destroy everything in minutes, much less a single small planet like Earth.

I have no idea what the correct answer would be where I would be happy with how the Reaper invasion story is presented, so it's not the most valid of complaints, but this is something I can't not think about whenever I see ME3.

They wanted their gut-punch, now-this-is-personal moment no matter what. I doesn't make sense, and worst of all, it fails. We feel nothing for future Earth. We don't care. Why should we?

Good posts both and a large part of why I felt the opening was so bad. I mean, on current evidence it would take the Reapers 100s of years to wipe out organic life with those lasers. Not only is Earth unfamiliar, it's inhabitants are apparently moronic as evidenced by the council scene. Why should I give a fuck again?

Can't be stressed enough though - Bioware's decision that you needed to play their expensive DLC and read their fuck-tard comics to know who some of the characters were or understand what that trial was about is just mind-bogglingly retarded.

 

[shinobi602]

The Reapers were never built up as 100% unstoppable, even in ME1, unless you assumed that everything Sovereign said was an objective, fact-by-fact account rather than the taunting of a big, evil blowhard, despite evidence to the contrary.

For instance, it's established that A) the Reapers were able to instantly cut off the head of the current galactic civilization, switching off the Citadel, locking down all of the Mass Relays, isolating every individual planet, and gaining access to essentially all of the information that ever existed about every single part of the Prothean empire, and it's also established that B) It still took hundreds of years before they managed to finish the job. I thought it was made very clear (even back in 2007) that the reason the Reapers were always able to execute their plan had less to do with them being some godlike, unstoppable military force, and more to do with the fact that they controlled the information and the communication of the civilizations that they attacked. Not that they aren't far and away the most powerful military in the setting, but not to the point where they can shrug off a concerted resistance effort without having to actually wage a serious war.

(Incidentally, the ending of ME1 also wasn't exactly 'All the Citadel fleets versus Sovereign'. Sovereign attacked alongside an entire Geth armada, which could easily have been comparable to the Turian fleet in and of itself. Sovereign was the toughest nut to crack, to be sure, and the story kind of ignored the Geth at that point, but I don't think they were meant to play an insignificant part in that attack.)

Anybody saying the Reapers are unstoppable and is messing up ME1's lore should read this post.

 

[EatChildren]

I never played the DLC and I have no clue. It's such bullshit that I'm missing an important link in the story because I didn't pony up for some DLC, imo.

Ironically, a lot of the complaints as to the introduction being rushed are derived from it having little to no association with the last DLC, which was supposed to be a lead in to this game. Essentially Arrival ends with Shepard expected to go to Earth and stand trial. ME3 starts with the trial having come and gone. I don't think the demo even references it at all.

The Reapers were never built up as 100% unstoppable, even in ME1, unless you assumed that everything Sovereign said was an objective, fact-by-fact account rather than the taunting of a big, evil blowhard, despite evidence to the contrary.

For instance, it's established that A) the Reapers were able to instantly cut off the head of the current galactic civilization, switching off the Citadel, locking down all of the Mass Relays, isolating every individual planet, and gaining access to essentially all of the information that ever existed about every single part of the Prothean empire, and it's also established that B) It still took hundreds of years before they managed to finish the job. I thought it was made very clear (even back in 2007) that the reason the Reapers were always able to execute their plan had less to do with them being some godlike, unstoppable military force, and more to do with the fact that they controlled the information and the communication of the civilizations that they attacked. Not that they aren't far and away the most powerful military in the setting, but not to the point where they can shrug off a concerted resistance effort without having to actually wage a serious war.

(Incidentally, the ending of ME1 also wasn't exactly 'All the Citadel fleets versus Sovereign'. Sovereign attacked alongside an entire Geth armada, which could easily have been comparable to the Turian fleet in and of itself. Sovereign was the toughest nut to crack, to be sure, and the story kind of ignored the Geth at that point, but I don't think they were meant to play an insignificant part in that attack.)

This is how I perceive it too. I do think their threat has been somewhat diminished, and that they are as individual entities incredibly powerful, but the 'god machine' idea is a fallacy, one specifically harboured by the Reapers themselves. As mighty as they are, they still require order and strategy to efficiently execute their plan, and it still takes time. They might be gigantic, huge and overpowering, but the galaxy as a whole is still much, much larger. They got to where they are not just through brute force, but wit and strategy too.

Defeat Sovereign was supposed to be somewhat of a "if it bleeds, we can kill it" moment. They're not unstoppable, and they do require tact. Thus, the end of all things is not guaranteed should they show up.

That being said, I do expect their power and threat to be weakened in ME3, and I don't feel BioWare has handled their mythology the way they should have.

 

[Arjen]

I never played the DLC and I have no clue. It's such bullshit that I'm missing an important link in the story because I didn't pony up for some DLC, imo.

I totaly agree, they should make it really clear to new people why Shepard is no longer active.
This is such a cop-out.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

The Reapers don't just want to kill humans do they? They want to experiment on them too, and harvest their technology. That's the reason why they let them live so long.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Ironically, a lot of the complaints as to the introduction being rushed are derived from it having little to no association with the last DLC, which was supposed to be a lead in to this game. Essentially Arrival ends with Shepard expected to go to Earth and stand trial. ME3 starts with the trial having come and gone. I don't think the demo even references it at all.

Is a flashback post demo sequence out of the question?

I suppose the script folk would have mentioned this by now.

 

[Omegasquash]

Ironically, a lot of the complaints as to the introduction being rushed are derived from it having little to no association with the last DLC, which was supposed to be a lead in to this game. Essentially Arrival ends with Shepard expected to go to Earth and stand trial. ME3 starts with the trial having come and gone. I don't think the demo even references it at all.

Anderson refers to "the shit you pulled," but that's about it. If you play Arrival, you get it, but if you haven't played the DLC, you'll likely scratch your head.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I never played the DLC and I have no clue. It's such bullshit that I'm missing an important link in the story because I didn't pony up for some DLC, imo.

Okay this is oversimplifying a bit but: Shepard kind of blew up a planet and like 400,000 people because of this super special relay that the Reapers were about to arrive at (don't think about the time scale here) and he threw an asteroid at it and it blew up and destroyed the system it was in.

 

[Moaradin]

Is a flashback post demo sequence out of the question?

I suppose the script folk would have mentioned this by now.

Flashback would be nice. I'd honestly take anything at this point.

 

[Arjen]

The Reapers were never built up as 100% unstoppable, even in ME1, unless you assumed that everything Sovereign said was an objective, fact-by-fact account rather than the taunting of a big, evil blowhard, despite evidence to the contrary.

For instance, it's established that A) the Reapers were able to instantly cut off the head of the current galactic civilization, switching off the Citadel, locking down all of the Mass Relays, isolating every individual planet, and gaining access to essentially all of the information that ever existed about every single part of the Prothean empire, and it's also established that B) It still took hundreds of years before they managed to finish the job. I thought it was made very clear (even back in 2007) that the reason the Reapers were always able to execute their plan had less to do with them being some godlike, unstoppable military force, and more to do with the fact that they controlled the information and the communication of the civilizations that they attacked. Not that they aren't far and away the most powerful military in the setting, but not to the point where they can shrug off a concerted resistance effort without having to actually wage a serious war.

(Incidentally, the ending of ME1 also wasn't exactly 'All the Citadel fleets versus Sovereign'. Sovereign attacked alongside an entire Geth armada, which could easily have been comparable to the Turian fleet in and of itself. Sovereign was the toughest nut to crack, to be sure, and the story kind of ignored the Geth at that point, but I don't think they were meant to play an insignificant part in that attack.)

You're one of my favorite posters in ME threads, well said yet again.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Anybody saying the Reapers are unstoppable and is messing up ME1's lore should read this post.

I read it. I strongly disagree with everything said.

 

[derFeef]

Anderson refers to "the shit you pulled," but that's about it. If you play Arrival, you get it, but if you haven't played the DLC, you'll likely scratch your head.

And I wondered why he wasn't commander anymore, lol.

 

[Deadbeat]

When does the multiplayer portion of the demo end?

 

[SonnyBoy]

I loved the demo. I'm a huge ME fan anyway, so that's not shocking. However, the graphics look a bit dated in some areas. The reaper squid things crashing into the earth...the sense of weight and destruction wasn't heavy enough, IMHO. Also, after finally playing Uncharted 3, the character animations in ME3 really came off super stiff when running down the side of the building.

No biggie tho.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

I read it. I strongly disagree with everything said.

How can you?

The Reapers are incredibly enigmatic. That's the reason they're so hard to beat, not the fact they're invincible. If they are indeed invincible, the ME trilogy was pretty short sighted, and ME3 will be a very short game.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Defanging the enemy in sequels is one of my least favourite tropes in fiction. Stump made an amazing tangentially related post regarding this back in the Bioshock 2 thread.

 

[EatChildren]

Okay this is oversimplifying a bit but: Shepard kind of blew up a planet and like 400,000 people because of this super special relay that the Reapers were about to arrive at (don't think about the time scale here) and he threw an asteroid at it and it blew up and destroyed the system it was in.

Its okay though it was only batarians.

 

[shinobi602]

I read it. I strongly disagree with everything said.

Don't see what's to disagree. And "strongly" on top of it? Really?

 

[CorrisD]

Would've been nice. Of course the whole premise that Reapers suddenly appear at Earth with basically no warning is a little absurd. Even in the demo it's silly. They lose contact with outer colonies, then in the space of a minute they lose contact with the moon and Reapers are blowing shit up, right when Shepard is called in. It's cringe-worthy in how hard it's trying to be Hollywood.

I don't see why it is absurd at all, didn't they call Shepard in because they lose contact with the colonies, which was the point of the start of the demo and why you were there at the time?

He had already been taken off the Normandy at this point, hence the reference to getting used to a bed, he gets called in because they lose contact with the colonies which and considering it is a future earth I doubt it would have taken long for him to get anywhere on the planet assuming he wasn't already in the same city.

Shepard goes to see the council while at the same time the Reapers have made their way to earth, this isn't technology of the 20th century here, once the Reapers got to a Mass Effect Relay they could jump anywhere they wanted en masse (the point of the Arrival DLC), get to Eath pretty quickly and there are a lot of them, they could have easily taken out colonies while a main force headed to earth.

 

[Coxswain]

Defanging the enemy in sequels is one of my least favourite tropes in fiction. Stump made an amazing tangentially related post regarding this back in the Bioshock 2 thread.

Okay but they were defanged in the first game

 

[NightAntilli]

When does the multiplayer portion of the demo end?

March 8th if I'm not mistaken.

 

[derFeef]

Somewhat offtopic, but is Arrival worth it? Have not played any of the buyable DLC's.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

They already have ways to explain military victories against the Reapers anyway. Sovereign was one of their mightiest (possibly their most powerful) ships, as a Dreadnought-sized Reaper. Most Reapers are smaller. Via the Thanix cannons and Javelin Torpedo systems, we have the Alliance and Turians both sporting increased firepower, possibly other races too depending on who has managed to get their hands on the tech thanks to espionage or diplomacy.

Somewhat offtopic, but is Arrival worth it? Have not played any of the buyable DLC's.

Depends how cheap you can get it. Conesensus is that Overlord and (especially) Shadowbroker DLCs are worth the asking price, but Arrival not so much.

 

[Bisnic]

Somewhat offtopic, but is Arrival worth it? Have not played any of the buyable DLC's.

If you want to buy ME2 DLC, Arrival should be the last on your list and Shadow Broker on the top.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Okay but they were defanged in the first game

Agreed. As soon as either Shepard (through killing Reaper controlled Saren) or the Council forces took down Sovereign, we learnt the Reapers COULD be killed.

Not to mention the derelict Reaper you explore in ME2. From the beginning, the Reapers have been mortal.

 

[PowderedToast]

Defanging the enemy in sequels is one of my least favourite tropes in fiction. Stump made an amazing tangentially related post regarding this back in the Bioshock 2 thread.

i would like to read this, is it in the official thread?

 

[Kem0sabe]

The Reapers were never built up as 100% unstoppable, even in ME1, unless you assumed that everything Sovereign said was an objective, fact-by-fact account rather than the taunting of a big, evil blowhard, despite evidence to the contrary.

For instance, it's established that A) the Reapers were able to instantly cut off the head of the current galactic civilization, switching off the Citadel, locking down all of the Mass Relays, isolating every individual planet, and gaining access to essentially all of the information that ever existed about every single part of the Prothean empire, and it's also established that B) It still took hundreds of years before they managed to finish the job. I thought it was made very clear (even back in 2007) that the reason the Reapers were always able to execute their plan had less to do with them being some godlike, unstoppable military force, and more to do with the fact that they controlled the information and the communication of the civilizations that they attacked. Not that they aren't far and away the most powerful military in the setting, but not to the point where they can shrug off a concerted resistance effort without having to actually wage a serious war.

(Incidentally, the ending of ME1 also wasn't exactly 'All the Citadel fleets versus Sovereign'. Sovereign attacked alongside an entire Geth armada, which could easily have been comparable to the Turian fleet in and of itself. Sovereign was the toughest nut to crack, to be sure, and the story kind of ignored the Geth at that point, but I don't think they were meant to play an insignificant part in that attack.)

Missed this post completely. It´s a good argument. I imagine the reaper´s have a much more indirect action than many people would attribute to them.

The entire process of indoctrination goes a ways to prove that much more than a brute force invasion tactic, they are willing to play "agent´s" against one another. The husks themselves as this final game will prove, play an immense part of their overall Strategy, leading to the belief that not only they execute ground invasion´s but that's in fact their standard modus of operation.

Despite what bioware claims in their scrolling prologue text, the reapers aren't here to wipe out all organic life, they are here to harvest higher forms of intelligence for their own ominous ends, that would go a ways to explain why they dont nuke everything and prefer to invade, get what they need and leave most of the planetary ecosystems intact to support the next up and comer.

How would another galaxy wide civilization(s) spread if there were no viable planet´s to establish themselves on?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Okay but they were defanged in the first game

It's been a while since I've played the first game, but whether or not your reasoning stands up against the very fine points in the Mass Effect lore is almost irrelevant to me, in this case. The way the ME1 presents the scenario is very, very clear. It's emotional betrayal. It's that sudden feeling of the stakes flying out the window that neutralizes the drama present in the game. It feels clumsy. I associate the feeling with poor comic-book writing.

Perhaps someone more familiar with the lore can put it a little bit more elegantly than this.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

The Reapers have never been invincible; their greatest weapon is their mystery. They establish themselves as myths, so when the few who do believe in their existence attempt to stop them, the sceptical majority remain unaware, until it's far too late.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Taking hundreds of years to destroy the Protheans was a sign of Reaper strength, not difficulty on their part, as admitted by Vigil. They were so powerful that leisurely taking their time for centuries in a war for survival is nothing for them.

Regardless of Sovereign's singular military prowess (which WAS enough to challenge the strongest vanguard of Citadel space), his plotting for centuries was enough to cripple enough of Citadel race military that the Alliance military became by default the strongest in the known galaxy. (A fleet they just destroyed without opposition in the first ten minutes of ME3)

Nobody said the Reapers were invincible or 100% unstoppable, that's a strawman. (Er, strawreaper)

 

[Confidence Man]

I don't see why it is absurd at all, didn't they call Shepard in because they lose contact with the colonies, which was the point of the start of the demo and why you were there at the time?

He had already been taken off the Normandy at this point, hence the reference to getting used to a bed, he gets called in because they lose contact with the colonies which and considering it is a future earth I doubt it would have taken long for him to get anywhere on the planet assuming he wasn't already in the same city.

Shepard goes to see the council while at the same time the Reapers have made their way to earth, this isn't technology of the 20th century here, once the Reapers got to a Mass Effect Relay they could jump anywhere they wanted en masse (the point of the Arrival DLC), get to Eath pretty quickly and there are a lot of them, they could have easily taken out colonies while a main force headed to earth.

The relay doesn't put them directly at Earth. There are alliance ships everywhere, including earth orbit. Did no one even see them coming? A massive invasion force and surprise! they just drop through the clouds and start shooting lasers and that's all the warning anyone gets? Surely someone would have seen them come through the relay at least.

 

[dark10x]

Played some of the demo on PS3 last night and, jesus christ, it's bad. What the hell, Bioware? The framerate is SOOO low.

Will try it on 360 later and I'm hoping it's better.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'm not entirely sure where this "the reapers were never invincible" thing is coming from, either. That much is clear. Sovereign was destroyed.

 

[Moaradin]

Played some of the demo on PS3 last night and, jesus christ, it's bad. What the hell, Bioware? The framerate is SOOO low.

Will try it on 360 later and I'm hoping it's better.

You aren't gonna get 60 fps on the 360 =P

 

[Lostconfused]

Okay but they were defanged in the first game

Not really? Sovereign was beaten more or less by a video game cop out cliche of final boss character. Where it became disabled after the player kills Saren.

Until that point in time it was the most powerful ship in the galaxy. Yes the Geth fleet played a huge part. But Sovereign was shown to destroy multiple alliance ships quiet easily. Completely destroying one by ramming it simply because it was in the way, without any adverse effects to it self.

No it wasn't just Sovereign spinning a tall tale about the Reapers. The entire narrative of the game talked up just how powerful they are.

 

[Wallach]

Taking hundreds of years to destroy the Protheans was a sign of Reaper strength, not difficulty on their part, as admitted by Vigil. They were so powerful that leisurely taking their time for centuries in a war for survival is nothing for them.

Regardless of Sovereign's singular military prowess (which WAS enough to challenge the strongest vanguard of Citadel space), his plotting for centuries was enough to cripple enough of Citadel race military that the Alliance military became by default the strongest in the known galaxy. (A fleet they just destroyed without opposition in the first ten minutes of ME3)

Nobody said the Reapers were invincible or 100% unstoppable, that's a strawman.

To be fair, it was never Sovereign's singular military prowess; it had a huge Geth armada when it attacked the Citadel. Sovereign would have gotten fucked attempting to take the Citadel by force alone.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Taking hundreds of years to destroy the Protheans was a sign of Reaper strength, not difficulty on their part, as admitted by Vigil. They were so powerful that leisurely taking their time for centuries in a war for survival is nothing for them.

Regardless of Sovereign's singular military prowess (which WAS enough to challenge the strongest vanguard of Citadel space), his plotting for centuries was enough to cripple enough of Citadel race military that the Alliance military became by default the strongest in the known galaxy. (A fleet they just destroyed without opposition in the first ten minutes of ME3)

Nobody said the Reapers were invincible or 100% unstoppable, that's a strawman.

Exactly. I feel people are twisting the argument into something it never was.

I never thought they were invincible, but in the first game they were established as a much bigger threat than the enemies that invade Earth at the start of this game.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

To be fair, it was never Sovereign's singular military prowess; it had a huge Geth armada when it attacked the Citadel. Sovereign would have gotten fucked attempting to take the Citadel by force alone.

True, but he still probably would have decimated a fleet or two before going down.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

i would like to read this, is it in the official thread?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20082589&highlight=bioshock+sequel+problem#post20082589

The specific excerpt:

3) Whenever you make a sequel or prequel to a seminal work, you face the challenge of establishing an antagonist or conflict which is at least as urgent if not more urgent than the antagonist of the previous work. This tends to lead to a lot of really stupid situations where subsequent works have increasingly implausible levels of evil and destruction. Sorry, reader/player/viewer, the ultimate evil you just saw our heroes destroy was actually just some random grunt, here is the NEW ULTIMATE EVIL! A good sequel is going to establish its new antagonist without attempting to minimize or marginalize the original villain.

It's a great writeup on Bioshock 2 for a number of other reasons, I recommend reading it.