Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
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Same boat as you. It was a fun ride with great buildup to the final showdown. After seeing Anderson dead, i expected the ending to be Shepard looking out and watch as the Crucible rotates itself to point at the reaper army and then shoot gigantic laser beam. Then I remembered that the internet said the ending was bad and the ending i expected was not...
Btw, your avatar looks like me. Kinda creepy
This has been bugging me and I would really appreciate anyone who could answer it.
Almost every time I encountered the Illusive Man, I had grayed out options that would ask him to either help me or join me. My question is, can you really join Cerberus or the Illusive Man in this game in any way? I have always found him to easily be the coolest character in the entire trilogy, and quite honestly, his logic about the Reapers and all the shit in general has always been superior to the Alliance from the start.
So basically my only question is...is there somekind of hidden method to rejoin my Cerberus home boys and drop the pussy Alliance for a different ending?
Almost every time I encountered the Illusive Man, I had grayed out options that would ask him to either help me or join me. My question is, can you really join Cerberus or the Illusive Man in this game in any way? I have always found him to easily be the coolest character in the entire trilogy, and quite honestly, his logic about the Reapers and all the shit in general has always been superior to the Alliance from the start.
So basically my only question is...is there somekind of hidden method to rejoin my Cerberus home boys and drop the pussy Alliance for a different ending?
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Well, I still think ME1 has the worst plot problems of the series, but goddamn ME3 had its moments of stupidity. All throughout the game I was thinking "why don't the Reapers just go get the Citadel and shut down the relay network like they do every other cycle?" I figured maybe you know, it was too heavily defended. But then they get the fucking citadel and park it outside Earth in the end-game. Holy shit, if they just bum-rushed the Citadel and shut everything down all of the galaxy's fleets would have been stranded.
Then the catalyst bullshit. Doesn't make a goddamn lick of sense. If you're so worried about robot rebellions, why don't you just keep that massive fleet you have around as a fucking galactic peace-keeping force and blow up rebelling robots when they show up? Then you can save the species, and they'll learn their lessons about the dangers of artificial intelligence? Nobody in the universe would come up with such a fucking stupid plan as a 50,000 year extinction cycle where you harvest species and upload their minds to your ships. Bloody hell, even the ascension angle is retarded when you remember that every cycle, reapers get killed in at least some numbers, so YOU AREN'T EVEN KEEPING THESE "ASCENDED" PEOPLE SAFE BECAUSE SHITLOADS OF THEM WILL DIE. They should have taken a page out of the Geth playbook and built a secure, distant location for them to party at.
Final choices are all shitty, except the "Take Control Of The Reapers" one. The Synthesis one makes minimal sense at all, I don't even understand it. Creating a "hybrid" species that will replace other life in the galaxy doesn't do diddly squat to prevent new organic life from naturally arising, the same way it always does, leaving the cycle to continue on forever. Nor does it prevent the new hybrid life from creating purely organic or purely synthetic races. It doesn't do anything to prevent rampant AIs from killing everything. It doesn't prevent war between species. It doesn't prevent intra-species war. In fact, I don't even see what it does at all. Everybody is now half-robot, yay I guess?
The destroy ending confused me also. I thought it was just Destroy The Reapers, but then the kid said it would also bust up pretty much all advanced technology? It will kill all the Geth? Wtf? I'm not about to reset galactic civilization to 0, resulting in tens of billions of deaths the galaxy over as populations collapse back to pre-industrial societies.
Controlling the reapers is the only rational ending from Shepard's perspective, since he manages to "save" the galaxy as best he can. Unfortunately NONE of the endings make sense from the perspective of the catalyst. None of the endings achieve what he wants. Good job, you idiot?
Then the catalyst bullshit. Doesn't make a goddamn lick of sense. If you're so worried about robot rebellions, why don't you just keep that massive fleet you have around as a fucking galactic peace-keeping force and blow up rebelling robots when they show up? Then you can save the species, and they'll learn their lessons about the dangers of artificial intelligence? Nobody in the universe would come up with such a fucking stupid plan as a 50,000 year extinction cycle where you harvest species and upload their minds to your ships. Bloody hell, even the ascension angle is retarded when you remember that every cycle, reapers get killed in at least some numbers, so YOU AREN'T EVEN KEEPING THESE "ASCENDED" PEOPLE SAFE BECAUSE SHITLOADS OF THEM WILL DIE. They should have taken a page out of the Geth playbook and built a secure, distant location for them to party at.
Final choices are all shitty, except the "Take Control Of The Reapers" one. The Synthesis one makes minimal sense at all, I don't even understand it. Creating a "hybrid" species that will replace other life in the galaxy doesn't do diddly squat to prevent new organic life from naturally arising, the same way it always does, leaving the cycle to continue on forever. Nor does it prevent the new hybrid life from creating purely organic or purely synthetic races. It doesn't do anything to prevent rampant AIs from killing everything. It doesn't prevent war between species. It doesn't prevent intra-species war. In fact, I don't even see what it does at all. Everybody is now half-robot, yay I guess?
The destroy ending confused me also. I thought it was just Destroy The Reapers, but then the kid said it would also bust up pretty much all advanced technology? It will kill all the Geth? Wtf? I'm not about to reset galactic civilization to 0, resulting in tens of billions of deaths the galaxy over as populations collapse back to pre-industrial societies.
Controlling the reapers is the only rational ending from Shepard's perspective, since he manages to "save" the galaxy as best he can. Unfortunately NONE of the endings make sense from the perspective of the catalyst. None of the endings achieve what he wants. Good job, you idiot?
lastplayed
Member
Actually that's a good point. I LOVED Kotor's dark side ending. It wasn't happy, but it sure felt satisfying.
nope, you just end up pleading with him or yelling at him a bunch
cant join him
its really lame, the way cerberus was written in me2 was much more interesting than in this one. so much more morally grey
It's not perfect, but that fanfic is actually a good way to help point out why the ending(s) we got weren't that satisfying.
It tried fixing:
-how brief some things were
-how vague some things were
-some of the weird inconsistency and plot holes created by said briefness and/or vagueness
-the lack of effort from Shepard
-the stupidity of the Catalyst appearing solely as Vent Kid
-the lack of closure and purpose brought about by not having our choices and war assets come into the picture the way I think most of us expected considering how ME2 played out
Care to elaborate on ME1's plot problems?
My fanfic:
"Hey," said Shepard, "it's that fucking kid." He pulled out his gun and shot it in the head. Then he watched all the Reapers blow up.
-insert montage of what the squad gets up to post-victory
-credits
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Allow me to ask the fine gentlemen here a question.
If I am unwilling to purchase the DLC, other than the now infamous character and all of his associated missions/story/whatever, what else will I miss? Am I going to miss additional characters to play with as well?
If I am unwilling to purchase the DLC, other than the now infamous character and all of his associated missions/story/whatever, what else will I miss? Am I going to miss additional characters to play with as well?
No, I think you nailed it. Some nice commentary, but you could just hit youtube for that.
Your post precisely describes and explains why none of the solution is a good solution. It was a choice between:
1. Setting civilzation back before technology exist and inadvertently killing those who depend on those technology. What would this achieve? Sooner or later, there will be those who'd resurrect technology and then we'll be back where we started.
2. Sacrifice on Shepard's part, hoping that he can control Reapers. But there's no guarantee that things wouldn't repeat itself in the future. Also, I don't get how this will destroy the relays.
3. Fuck everyone's bio-molecular structure and turn them into half-hybrid. Your post already neatly outline why this won't work so I won't even bother trying to fanwank it. Also, just like the 2nd solution why does this destroy the relays?
Seriously, that's much better than:
"Oh. You control the Reapers? Cool." *Shepard does nothing*
You'll miss some costumes and maybe a gun or two, I think. The main draw is that party member.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Oh so outside of that dude, all characters can still be recruited into Shepard's party?
That's good to hear.
PinkCrayon
Member
Sadly, that fanfic wasn't bad at all 
The Incarnation
Member
The Anti-Monitor
Banned
Renegade Shep saves the day.
WrenchNinja
Member
This is...actually kind of good.
Apophenia Overload
Member
hahahahha
doubleplusgood
Member
Nope, as far as I know she dies along with the Geth and the reapers.
It's fantastic and Bioware gets to keep their stupid space wizard. A couple lines of the dialogue are bleh, but yeah I prefer the ending where I tell the reapers and the catalyst to go fuck themselves.
Even a completely troll ending with Blasto and Bubin appearing after Shep goes up the elevator would've been fine if it were followed by the kid scolding his grandpa for messing the story up. Stargazer could admit that no one really knows what happened to Shepard during the war while still being used as a generic epilogue generator to tell the kid what happened to everyone else depending on what choices you made. For me to actually be willing to accept this as a reasonable alternative is utterly ridiculous.
Wait a sec, looking online it seems like the "secret" ending is that grandpa and kid thing? That's fucking stupid, what's so special about that? =\ I got that on my first playthrough too.
I'm GUESSING that's a "If you carried a save from ME2 or if you replayed ME3 alone" thing. Which is good, because following an entire series then needing to replay the final part to get a little more closure is stupid.
Dammit... now you made me read it too. And it actually is kind of interesting, expanding on what already is there.
Back to the bargaining stage then....
Anger > Bargaining > Anger > Bargaining
Acceptance is only going to come when I find some other game that rubs me the wrong way.
Cue Bioware logo and badly photoshopped logos of Halo/Mass Effect/MGS slapped in.
Mass Halo 4: Guns of the Reapers.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
The problems are centred around why Saren and the Reapers were doing what they were doing. In order to "win", Saren needed to turn control of the Citadel over to Sovereign, who could then activate the relay and have the Reapers warp in. In order to do this, he needs to access the terminal just next to the council chambers. This terminal is unguarded (or rather, it is not specifically guarded, although that area generally is), and as a Spectre he can freely walk up to it, without having to answer to C-sec or whomever else may interfere. He can just say "council business", and then do his work very quickly. Once he has used the terminal briefly, the only way to stop him is to upload Vigil's datafile, which nobody would have, because nobody would know that they were trying to stop Saren because Saren has done nothing wrong and is a spectre.
So rather than simply walking up and opening the gate for the Reapers, his plan is to secure a back-door onto the Citadel (that he doesn't need), so he can bring an army onto the Citadel so he can fight his way to the council chambers (which he already has free access to) so that he can turn over control to Sovereign. The only reason he is seeking the Conduit is so he has a way onto the Citadel for him and his Geth army. But he didn't need a way onto it until he sought out the Conduit, and thus was stripped of his Spectre Status after attempting to wipe out the Eden Prime colony.
Now, you could say something like "he needed to find the Conduit so he could find out what the Protheans did to the Citadel", but that isn't even the case, because as soon as the Geth touch down on Iilos, they make a beeline for the Conduit (apparently they already knew what it was, since it was completely central to their attack plan) and Vigil only revealed himself (and his information) to Shepard.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Fixed.
Did it ever truly explain who the fuck the god child was? I mean, did he create the Reapers or was he simply using them as passed down from a prior civilization?
My mind and face basically went blank as soon as the kid's dialogue scene started. Shepard is either A) dead and talking to 'god', cause he looked practically dead while talking to a 2001 Space Odyssey child in, well, space...with no helmet on, or B) the plot actually went full on retard mode. All logic, reason, and real plot progression just went down the shitter.
My mind and face basically went blank as soon as the kid's dialogue scene started. Shepard is either A) dead and talking to 'god', cause he looked practically dead while talking to a 2001 Space Odyssey child in, well, space...with no helmet on, or B) the plot actually went full on retard mode. All logic, reason, and real plot progression just went down the shitter.
No. I watched a live stream of someone beating it today, and their face went from elation to well everyone knows the look your face made when the stupid kid appeared.
MadraptorMan
Member
I wish the Rachni played a visible role in the final battle...I don't remember a single scene with Rachni fighting. I saved them two games ago and was waiting for the payoff!
Yeah or you know a shit load of Geth Primes and their bigger creations can't remember the names.
MadraptorMan
Member
Yeah, that too.
You got it in NUMBERS. But, yeah, with how much choices REALLY mattered across installments they may as well have made the story fully set in stone, or at least avoided the seemingly bigger decisions altogether like choosing Councilor since they go "well fuck that" anyway. Kind of disappointed they BS the Rachni in even if you killed them honestly, should've been an entirely different mission and your reward was not having to worry about those enemies. I guess if it had something like ME2's comic thing on PS3 they could've had them in without worrying aboutTOO many potential players never seeing them.
Oh, and one final very important question. No matter what kind of amazing fleet you're able to put together at the end, do they always get completely annihilated by the Reaper's?
I mean, I had the entire freaking Geth fleet engaged with the Quarians, Asari, the Starship Trooper bugs....everything, and they were all pretty much irrelevant and obliterated just so I could run towards a freaking Halo-esque gravity lift heading to the Citadel.
I assume this happened to everyone, considering Epic Space Troll Child appeared in everyone's game. Sorry, I don't even have a name worthy enough to mock this clusterfuck of a failed plot device.
I mean, I had the entire freaking Geth fleet engaged with the Quarians, Asari, the Starship Trooper bugs....everything, and they were all pretty much irrelevant and obliterated just so I could run towards a freaking Halo-esque gravity lift heading to the Citadel.
I assume this happened to everyone, considering Epic Space Troll Child appeared in everyone's game. Sorry, I don't even have a name worthy enough to mock this clusterfuck of a failed plot device.
Vent god.
jediyoshi
Member
The biggest thing that got to me were the last few paragraphs describing the potential imagery of all the races fighting. Quarians fighting alongside Geth Primes, biotic artillery, Krogans doin their thang. Off the top of my head the only races I remember at least just seeing around earth were the turians, krogan and maybe two asari, liara included.
What leaked ending?
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
The secret ending is that Shepard actually survives (unless you chose synthesis). There's a short two second video of him at the end in a pile of rubble with just the N7 logo showing and you hear him taking a breathe. You can only get this ending if you grind up in multiplayer mode to get your galactic readiness level to above 50%. Despite what Bioware said, it's impossible to get the "perfect" (I put it in quotes because the endings are still steaming piles of shit) ending by just playing singleplayer.
If War Assets*Readiness %>5000, then you can get the perfect endings. It is impossible to get Readiness to over 50% in singleplayer mode and you cannot get 10000 in War Assets so you HAVE TO play multiplayer mode.
Of course, this still leaves a whole bunch of unanswered questions.
1) The Normandy crew is still stranded on an unknown planet with no way of getting off. With the Mass Relays destroyed, everyone is stranded on the planet they're currently on.
2) If you chose to destroy all synthetics, it renders the ENTRIE Geth-Quarian subplot irrelevant which is a shame because that was an AMAZING subplot.
If War Assets*Readiness %>5000, then you can get the perfect endings. It is impossible to get Readiness to over 50% in singleplayer mode and you cannot get 10000 in War Assets so you HAVE TO play multiplayer mode.
Of course, this still leaves a whole bunch of unanswered questions.
1) The Normandy crew is still stranded on an unknown planet with no way of getting off. With the Mass Relays destroyed, everyone is stranded on the planet they're currently on.
2) If you chose to destroy all synthetics, it renders the ENTRIE Geth-Quarian subplot irrelevant which is a shame because that was an AMAZING subplot.
I got the Shepard lives ending without playing multi.
Atleast I don't think I played any before finishing.
MisterNugNug
Member
There are inserts for the fleets arriving to the battle. Looking at movies here I see short cinematics for the Destiny Ascension, Geth and Quarians, but I think that's about it. The biggest scenes just show the ships that can't be missed, probably for budget reasons (but it wouldn't be to hard to swap a few models here and there).
Still, the short scenes that "alternative ending" describes don't appear that costly to make, and it would certainly add a lot more to the feeling of the final battle.
Hmm? There's a LondonBlueBad? Control can backfire? I know Destroy can end up pretty much sterilizing Earth, but how does Control backfire?
Interestingly, there's no bad end movie for Green.
Isn't there a standalone player that can handle .bik files? It's just Bink Video files, right?
Psychoward
Banned
Yeah, like if Shepard died with Anderson, sure it might have been a little cliche, but it would have been a hell of a lot more satisfying than this bullshit.
Thanks, just wanted to hear something other than ME3 get bashed, if only for a moment.
That argument sounds fine, but I don't believe Saren could actually have done any of that. The point was for Saren to transfer control of the Citadel over to Sovereign with that terminal. Seeing how Sovereign attached to the Citadel at the end of the game, it's possible to assume that physical connection was required for the relay to be opened without the keepers' help. Because of that, there would be no way for Sovereign to safely approach without the aid of things like the geth fleet. I'm pretty sure it was stated that Sovereign started amassing a geth army after the keepers didn't respond.
So, with a direct approach, it probably would've been obvious to see this giant wave of ships coming. Things would get messy; it'd be impossible to predict if Sovereign's agent could tamper with Citadel controls and/or security by then. If that agent were to do this prior to an alert of the encroaching fleet, there would be no telling how long that'd give Sovereign to arrive with minor resistance. The simultaneous back door assault and front door assault from both parties must've been the optimal way to ensure victory, and this tactic only came about from the crap with the Conduit. Prior to then, I think Sovereign was content waiting until the perfect opportunity arose.
Sovereign or Saren must've intercepted information about the Prothean artifact on Eden Prime. Saren, being the good little puppet he was, went there with Sovereign to investigate for whatever reason (maybe Sovereign was surprised to hear some tech from the previous cycle made it through unscathed). It wasn't until after Saren interacted with the beacon that the whole search for the Conduit took place, which first involved finding the Cipher to make proper sense of the jumbled message. Shepard just so happened to be there as well to complicate things, also gaining access to this potentially harmful information. That's when the whole conflict between them started. Saren was just always one step ahead somehow. It was a mixture of Saren's screw-up and desperation that got things rolling the way they did, but, yes, some things don't quite add up.
It's also unclear how indoctrinated Saren was, so that probably was a factor, too.
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