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[hateradio]

It's okay though, we can fix it by building the Crucible better ending, and delivering it to them so they can implement new alternative solutions to the problem of the conclusion! .

+

I don't think Bioware created the endings to go the indoctrination route. They might say they did, but only to cover their asses for making poor endings.

This is something I really hope doesn't happen. I'm all for some fanservice, but I think that it would destroy ME even more for people to go with the indoctrinated rout which would retcon this ending just because of how awful it was to begin with.

I don't want anyone's fanfiction being served and accepted by BW as: "Oh yeah, that's what we meant, derp." :|

 

[Rebel Leader]

Use posion - something to believe in
In the video please? =3

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Hokay, making the video. Will be up sometime tonight or tomorrow, hopefully.

 

[CorrisD]

Why does it have to be that way?

The fact that synthetics can live in harmony with organics should be proof enough that the cycle can be broken.

It seems a bit of a self created loop to me after seeing the ending.

They purposely have races develop along a predetermined technology line they themselves use, we can assume this happened a first time before it was stopped and the cycles began.
So if every cycle always develops the way they have set out, then every cycle will end up with the same synthetic problem at some point, and the Reapers always come in and kill everything off so no one really gets a chance to see if it ends up differently, which it seemingly does in our cycle but only because the Reapers were going to wipe us everything out, which would have undone any progress.

Or something, lol.

 

[Rodney McKay]

No one cared because they thought it was inferior to start with since precious Bioware wasn't making it.

The game was rushed and unfinished. The reviews I can remember for KOTOR 2 reflected that.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Who are the original creators of the Citadel though? A question we might never know the answer to... until more DLC! Lololol.

the prothean already takes care of that by mentoining that at the start of their cycle, "they realized machines had surpassed them long ago in ways they could not imagine".

So basically the citadel and the reapers still 'build themselves', just in part from other organics.
Javik also gives a direct example of how an AI could take over organics with implants.


Not that this makes any sense, as the whole 'machines are infinite' thing is rubbish and the Singularity is a sham, but that is what the writers and editors appear to have had in mind.

Still, the way this is 'ended' you're simply going to wind up with the infinite regression that ruined Halo 3 and beyond as well. 'Human master race' and other forms of self-reference cannot be solved, they can only turn into endless soap.

 

[duckroll]

Is something I really hope doesn't happen. I'm all for some fanservice, but I think that it would destroy ME even more for people to go with the indoctrinated rout which would retcon this ending just because of how awful it was to begin with.

I don't want anyone's fanfiction. :|

Considering how Bioware is so lazy that they actually used stock internet images for Tali's face and the post-credits ending background, I would not be surprised at all if they decided to make everyone "happy" by cashing in on a DLC fanfiction ending. It seems to fit their MO.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I don't think Bioware created the endings to go the indoctrination route. They might say they did, but only to cover their asses for making poor endings.

Bingo.

I think some of the indoctrination theories on the ending are pretty damn clever. But I don't think BioWare created the ending with that in mind, otherwise they would have put that twist in the ending already.

In any event, BioWare will have a Mass Effect panel April 6th at PAX East. Will be curious to see how that goes.

 

[hateradio]

Use posion - something to believe in
In the video please? =3

I think that Linkin Park song is the best I've heard.

Considering how Bioware is so lazy that they actually used stock internet images for Tali's face and the post-credits ending background, I would not be surprised at all if they decided to make everyone "happy" by cashing in on a DLC fanfiction ending. It seems to fit their MO.

Their MO of not really having any MO other than crappy DLC?

 

[Derrick01]

The game was rushed and unfinished. The reviews I can remember for KOTOR 2 reflected that.

And notice how not many reviewers suggested that with ME3?

 

[K.Sabot]

I eagerly await with anticipation.

 

[BeesEight]

Is something I really hope doesn't happen. I'm all for some fanservice, but I think that it would destroy ME even more for people to go with the indoctrinated rout which would retcon this ending just because of how awful it was to begin with.

I don't want anyone's fanfiction. :|

The indoctrination ending is just the desperate attempts to salvage something better from the ending. As a stand-alone idea it is still terrible and would serve no function other than shock value. How is indoctrination suppose to deal with the themes and narrative of the story? What is that ending really suppose to be telling the player?

If the game shipped solely with the indoctrination ending, there would still be people furious with it. It's a trade from one bad ending to another.

 

[UnluckyKate]

I eagerly await with anticipation.

I'm already buying the DVD.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

How did reviewers talk about the ending of KoTOR2?

Did they shit on people who complained about it and called them "entitled"?

They blamed the publisher for rushing them, usual story from Obsidian

 

[megalowho]

I don't understand why the cycle will continue just because people develop synthetics.

It implies that people are incapable of living alongside synthetics, which is disproved in this game itself.

It's still a form of order, a solution to ensure that in any given cycle synthetic creations will never eradicate organic life. The Geth alone are in a relative state of infancy if we're talking unchecked amounts of time, who can say where that relationship goes as the galaxy evolves.

I agree it's not thematically consistent with Shepard's adventures, or at least certain potential outcomes, but that's what I got out of it.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Considering how Bioware is so lazy that they actually used stock internet images for Tali's face and the post-credits ending background, I would not be surprised at all if they decided to make everyone "happy" by cashing in on a DLC fanfiction ending. It seems to fit their MO.

it's crowdsourcing, man. It's like the future of business, maaaan.

/ hippy guru mode

 

[Parham]

Yes, but you have to keep in mind none of the saves other than the ng+ one that is used to reimport technically takes place AFTER the ending. Even saves you make after getting shoved back pre-cerberus level are labeled not finished.

Does the distinction really matter though? All of the NG+ saves are given the same end game state, regardless of the ending.

Edit: According to Gibbed, the end game state in the save editor may not entirely match up with Mass Effect 3. The game could, in fact, have a record of Shepard's fate in one of the save files.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I think that Linkin Park song is the best I've heard.


Their MO of not really having any MO other than crappy DLC?

Linking park for anti-indroc/anti-ending
Posion for pro-indroc/anti-ending

 

[firehawk12]

They blamed the publisher for rushing them, usual story from Obsidian

Yeah, but I'm wondering more about the reviewers.

Because here, the press is basically running PR for BioWare right now and it's more "Games Journalism" bullshit.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Yeah, but I'm wondering more about the reviewers.

Because here, the press is basically running PR for BioWare right now and it's more "Games Journalism" bullshit.

The reviews were mixed as I recall. There was no contraversy about the ending because there was no ending to get upset about. The game just ends abruptly

 

[BeesEight]

Yeah, but I'm wondering more about the reviewers.

Because here, the press is basically running PR for BioWare right now and it's more "Games Journalism" bullshit.

I did a search on metacritic and the reviews were actually much higher than I expected. I only skimmed the short blurbs but they seemed along the lines of "continues the excellence of BioWare's first entrance in the series but with greater ups and downs."

 

[JoeFu]

I eagerly await with anticipation.

More hyped for this than a real ending DLC

 

[Nemesis_]

So we never got clarification as to what the Keepers of the Citadel were either?

 

[Dacon]

Considering how Bioware is so lazy that they actually used stock internet images for Tali's face and the post-credits ending background, I would not be surprised at all if they decided to make everyone "happy" by cashing in on a DLC fanfiction ending. It seems to fit their MO.

I'm still amused how they didn't even bother modeling her face or giving her a love scene.

She got nothing. NOTHING lmao.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Even if there is a DLC ending it will probably be disappointing. The DLC missions for ME2 didn't have VO for your squadmates probably because it would be too expensive to call them for a few lines. If it wasn't planned from the start we won't probably get much anyway.

 

[squidyj]

Not at all, you just need something to believe in

——
Off topic but since mods are here I have to ask... can I Change my e-mail to a gmail and not get banned? Am I allowed?

I believe in something. I believe in Space Magic

 

[dragonelite]

I want to believe in ending dlc bioware planned. But I don't think they have the halls for it or the skill.

Only way I will believe them is if they give a statement this week and show some footage and release the dlc before next month.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Even if there is a DLC ending it will probably be disappointing. The DLC missions for ME2 didn't have VO for your squadmates probably because it would be too expensive to call them for a few lines. If it wasn't planned from the start we won't probably get much anyway.

I'd be cool with an epilogue with just the codex guy explaining everything for like an hour

 

[firehawk12]

The reviews were mixed as I recall. There was no contraversy about the ending because there was no ending to get upset about. The game just ends abruptly

Well, the "restored" ending is much better. It's clear that KoTOR2 was supposed to be part of a trilogy, so they went for tonal closure and it works. Of course, all I remember from back then was the fan hype for all the cut content and the restoration project. It was a much more positive reaction from the fans because they had the chance to help Obsidian "fix" the ending. The fact that Obsidian devs even helped out a little bit was a plus too... which is basically completely different from the reaction now, where fans are automatically ENTITLED and are 100% wrong.

I did a search on metacritic and the reviews were actually much higher than I expected. I only skimmed the short blurbs but they seemed along the lines of "continues the excellence of BioWare's first entrance in the series but with greater ups and downs."

Ah, of course.
I think reviewers then and now still don't finish games before reviewing them.

So we never got clarification as to what the Keepers of the Citadel were either?

They were the species that existed before the Protheans, weren't they? That's probably as much as we're going to get.

 

[Vire]

I want to believe in ending dlc bioware planned. But I don't think they have the halls for it or the skill.

Only way I will believe them is if they give a statement this week and show some footage and release the dlc before next month.

That would have required them to plan this in advance.

The indoctrination theory was a happy accident made up by fans.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I believe in something. I believe in Space Magic

You're gonna need this

 

[heliosRAzi]

Considering how Bioware is so lazy that they actually used stock internet images for Tali's face and the post-credits ending background, I would not be surprised at all if they decided to make everyone "happy" by cashing in on a DLC fanfiction ending. It seems to fit their MO.

Their laziness is why I don't believe the indoctrination theory. Almost every single piece of evidence could be laziness on Bioware's part.

 

[Ripclawe]

I eagerly await with anticipation.

Yes!!! Greatest thing out of ME3 so far.

 

[Parham]

Is there any particular reason why the game generates a save file called "LegendSave.pcsav" before starting the last Cerberus mission?

 

[Psychoward]

Is there any particular reason why the game generates a save file called "LegendSave.pcsav" before starting the last Cerberus mission?

DLC, the Cerberus HQ mission is the point of no return.

 

[Riposte]

I'm still amused how they didn't even bother modeling her face or giving her a love scene.

She got nothing. NOTHING lmao.

I don't know if this is different if you romanced them, but the Virmire survivor seems like the least developed character. Which would make sense I guess, because they are two of them and one of them won't be in your game.

EDIT: Watch as douches like Kuchera totally backpedal on their opinion when they watch RLM tear the game (mainly the ending) apart.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Is there any particular reason why the game generates a save file called "LegendSave.pcsav" before starting the last Cerberus mission?

It loads it after the game is over

 

[BeesEight]

Well, the "restored" ending is much better. It's clear that KoTOR2 was supposed to be part of a trilogy, so they went for tonal closure and it works. Of course, all I remember from back then was the fan hype for all the cut content and the restoration project. It was a much more positive reaction from the fans because they had the chance to help Obsidian "fix" the ending. The fact that Obsidian devs even helped out a little bit was a plus too... which is basically completely different from the reaction now, where fans are automatically ENTITLED and are 100% wrong.

Yeah, the situations are quite interesting when you compare them. Especially considering the fan reaction. There's far more fanservice in Mass Effect than KotOR 2 but there appears far more love for the latter.

Ah, of course.
I think reviewers then and now still don't finish games before reviewing them.

Yeah, they're pretty consistent in that regard.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Is there any particular reason why the game generates a save file called "LegendSave.pcsav" before starting the last Cerberus mission?

Because when you beat it, that's were it will load

 

[SDBurton]

This isn't Final Fantasy X. >:[

LOL

 

[Parham]

DLC, the Cerberus HQ mission is the point of no return.

It loads it after the game is over

Because when you beat it, that's were it will load

Thanks!

 

[firehawk12]

Yeah, the situations are quite interesting when you compare them. Especially considering the fan reaction. There's far more fanservice in Mass Effect than KotOR 2 but there appears far more love for the latter.

I think it's because there wasn't really any hostility. People were openly talking about the cut content directly on the Obsidian forums and not being called names because they found that stuff. It also pointed to a game that would have been awesome (at least from a story point of view), so that helped.

 

[tino]

I honestly don't think the endings are that bad.

It's kind of weird how short it is.

What EA should have done is give us a ID4 ending. I think most of fans would be much happier with that kind of happy ending. Maybe even throw in a parade to give a homage to Star Wars.

I can go on and on to explain why EA, being a greedy bastard, has no right not to give us a cheese happy ending.

However, I am not visually upset up these endings. I think the reason is that I, as an avid sci-fi reader, has never considered the main plot/premise of Mass Effect 1 "good sci-fi", therefore I have never emotionally invested that much in the premise. I actually am not sure if I understand why some gamers are so upset by these endings.

I want to compare the endings to Akira or Evangelion endings. But if I do that I would be giving the ME writers too much credit. My main problem is that they don't feel closure.

I think somebody can edit a good ending out of the materials that we have:

Keep the EA plot up to inside the Reaper thing, we see Sherperd meets Anderson, and they said "we did it.." and then emotional music start playing, we have images of the Citedal opening up, sending out shocking waves to destroy all the reapers; and then music keep playing, you never get a visual confirmation what happens to Shepard; and we start seeing rebuilding scenes, these rebuilding scenes need to be long, and the music need to be good; hopefully we see all the major characters in their home planet starting a new life after the war; and the music keep playing; and cue BioWare logo.

I would be very happy with an ending like this.

To me personally, there are some very powerful scenes in ME3 (in the middle of the game) that I consider some of the best in video game. I might still pick it as my GOTY.

 

[Rodney McKay]

And notice how not many reviewers suggested that with ME3?

Probably because it doesn't feel rushed to most of the reviewers.

Playing through the game I didn't feel like the game was rushed either, it just had a really poorly made ending. Whether that was do to with the game being rushed or just Bioware's bad writing, we won't know until they say. (which isn't likely)

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

So we never got clarification as to what the Keepers of the Citadel were either?

I think that's what the DLC is for.

Allthough the 'scan the keepers' quest is flagged though, as is the number scanned. So it might just be that nobody has shown the section that responds to those flags in particular.
(beside the email in ME2 that is)
Getting the full response from Conrad Verner also takes some rather extensive actions, after which he will share his dissertation on dark energy.


@reviewers not noting things: looking at the XBL accounts of actual reviewers, it seems pretty clear to me that most of them never play beyond 10 to 15 hours. Completing games is not relevant to them.

 

[dragonelite]

[/B]

That would have required them to plan this in advance.

The indoctrination theory was a happy accident made up by fans.

It would explain why space magic works that strong aka rewriting the galaxy. But then again there are planet wide plot holes and lore rewriting anything could fill them.

 

[GorillaJu]

My biggest fear is that they add in a new ending and vindicate the crazies who give Bioware too much credit with that stupid "indoctrination" theory.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I don't see why people are believing anything the little shit says. Theres no evidence the Geth and EDI will die in Destroy ending, you don't see shit. There's no reason to believe any of AI killing singularity bullshit. Destroy is the way to go.

 

[Vire]

I think that's what the DLC is for.

Allthough the 'scan the keepers' quest is flagged though, as is the number scanned. So it might just be that nobody has shown the section that responds to those flags in particular.
(beside the email in ME2 that is)
Getting the full response from Conrad Verner also takes some rather extensive actions, after which he will share his dissertation on dark energy.


@reviewers not noting things: looking at the XBL accounts of actual reviewers, it seems pretty clear to me that most of them never play beyond 10 to 15 hours. Completing games is not relevant to them.

That's pretty unfair to say. Most reviews specifically talk about the ending. They just so happened to like it, or think that it didn't detract much from the overall excellent experience.

I don't see why people are believing anything the little shit says. Theres no evidence the Geth and EDI will die in Destroy ending, you don't see shit. There's no reason to believe any of AI killing singularity bullshit. Destroy is the way to go.

Agreed.

 

[DTKT]

I think that's what the DLC is for.

Allthough the 'scan the keepers' quest is flagged though, as is the number scanned. So it might just be that nobody has shown the section that responds to those flags in particular.
(beside the email in ME2 that is)
Getting the full response from Conrad Verner also takes some rather extensive actions, after which he will share his dissertation on dark energy.


@reviewers not noting things: looking at the XBL accounts of actual reviewers, it seems pretty clear to me that most of them never play beyond 10 to 15 hours. Completing games is not relevant to them.

Press accounts and debug kit do exist.