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[2San]

They released their first FPS in 1993, months before Doom came along and kicked off the contemporary genre as we know it. Hardly anybody knows this shit and I think they deserve credit for it.

Sure. Still don't think it's comparable to Nintendo EAD, Blizzard or Valve caliber, who multiple still relevant franchises. Pre-Halo, Bungie just slipped my mind, since I've never played one of those games.

Most overhyped developper of the century. They never created anything. The only thing they did was porting the FPS genre to consoles by completely downgrading it. What an achievement.

So which FPS has a better 4p co-op campaign again?

 

[SturokBGD]

All Bungie ever did was repackage the cool shit PC gamers had been used to for years for the console crowd.

...which actually is a pretty fucking big deal, historically speaking.

 

[Fjordson]

On consoles? Who caught up?

I didn't mean subjective quality (Halo is probably still my favourite) but just popularity and the options shooter fans have on consoles. Call of Duty is the obvious one and you could maybe throw Battlefield in there after Bad Company 2.

 

[Hulud]

Yes.

Player map creation tools that get worked into the game's actual matchmaking.
Theater mode.
4 player online coop.
Standardizing dual analog.
Popularizing console pro-gaming.

Bungie is a trend setter and I hope their new IP continues to innovate.

 

[2San]

I didn't mean subjective quality (Halo is probably still my favourite) but just popularity and the options shooter fans have on consoles. Call of Duty is the obvious one and you could maybe throw Battlefield in there after Bad Company 2.

Popularity wise other franchises definitely caught up.

All Bungie ever did was repackage the cool shit PC gamers had been used to for years for the console crowd.

...which actually is a pretty fucking big deal, historically speaking.

Name one shooter that had a better 4p co-op campaign than the Halo franchise. Name me one PC shooter where you could go online with 4 people on the same PC.

 

[hao chi]

I think I'm the only person in this thread who cares about the campaigns...

The campaigns were usually good, but not good enough for me to go nuts over it.

Anyways:

Halo: CE - Loved it. Repetitive levels, but the combat was great.
Halo 2 - Pure shit.
Halo 3 - Good, and pretty enjoyable with friends.
ODST - Enjoyed it. One of their better attempts.
Reach - Possibly the best campaign in the series (it's been a while since I last played CE).

I feel like after stumbling pretty hard with Halo 2, their campaigns were improving. Unfortunately they could never get the multiplayer down. Halo 2 with MLG settings was IMO the most enjoyable way to play Halo on Live, and the funny thing is due to the balance issues, MLG settings eventually had to remove Covenant weapons (dat Plasma Pistol...). And even then you still had to deal with the awful netcode.

 

[kingkaiser]

Martin O'Donnell and Michael Salvatori certainly deserve more credit, their work is outstanding.

 

[Chitown B]

I feel like after stumbling pretty hard with Halo 2, their campaigns were improving. Unfortunately they could never get the multiplayer down. Halo 2 with MLG settings was IMO the most enjoyable way to play Halo on Live, and the funny thing is due to the balance issues, MLG settings eventually had to remove Covenant weapons (dat Plasma Pistol...). And even then you still had to deal with the awful netcode.

I disagree. I played over 3500 games of Halo 3 multiplayer and used to watch MLG matches. It was great. Also, balanced very well.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

All Bungie ever did was repackage the cool shit PC gamers had been used to for years for the console crowd.

...which actually is a pretty fucking big deal, historically speaking.

People always say this...unreal tournament, quake 3, duke nukem and half life are not like halo very much at all. They are great games, but they aren't halo. Halo has its own look and feel, no doubt about it.

Bungie deserves the credit they've received. Do they deserve more? Nah, there are other people that go completely unnoticed every day that deserve more credit...but Bungie is far from that.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Gotta agree with my Killzone 2 brothers. Bungie has been shown plenty of love for their unique series. Guerrilla Games have been criminally underrated for what they did with Killzone 2. The best pure FPS this gen and a classic.

 

[szaromir]

Yes.

Player map creation tools that get worked into the game's actual matchmaking.
Theater mode.
4 player online coop.
Standardizing dual analog.
Popularizing console pro-gaming.

Bungie is a trend setter and I hope their new IP continues to innovate.

Myth - one of the first real time strategy games without the fucking base building and combat were tactics actually mattered. The entire "build 1000 troops and storm the enemy base" was so old at that point that Myth was a nice breath of fresh air.

I do consider Bungie to be one of top 5 developers, for sure, and my personal favorite.

 

[Shaffield]

I really don't think they do. Working with Microsoft to set up a standard for online play, and creating one series of the exact same FPS over and over does not warrant that level of respect.

On that note, Valve doesnt really deserve it either, at least not at the same tier as Nintendo EAD.

 

[hao chi]

I disagree. I played over 3500 games of Halo 3 multiplayer and used to watch MLG matches. It was great. Also, balanced very well.

I wouldn't say the weapons were balanced very well, considering most of them are worthless. If you look at Halo: CE, nearly every weapon had its use in multiplayer.

Halo 3's weapons are balanced better for the type of settings MLG likes to use though, and there's nothing like the Plasma Pistol + BR combo from Halo 2.

For whatever reason I could never get into Halo 3. I know I wasn't a fan of the maps or equipment, but something about the gameplay never clicked for me, even in the MLG playlist that addressed the slow movement. Most of my time playing Halo 3 was my brother and I just playing gametypes where we could dick around in the Warthog (or Gauss Hog if we were lucky).

 

[Krilekk]

So which FPS has a better 4p co-op campaign again?

Doom 2

 

[2San]

Doom 2

Yeah, I'm still going for Halo:Reach.

 

[ViolentP]

Yeah, I'm still going for Halo:Reach.

I'm still going for Doom 2.

 

[VVIS]

So, if you've never heard of pathways, marathon, or myth, then 5 halo games means they suck. Ok, I get it.

They also invented the vidmaster challenge, in 1992, noobs. The freakin WW2 mod for myth was better than ANY commercial WW2 RTS, until Company of Heroes came out!! (as far as tactics gameplay goes)


I'd argue that they were the Valve of the mac platform, until financial shit made them go to M$. Shit, most console kiddies don't even know about Valve, neogaf aside.

 

[EGM1966]

Nah. I think they get represented well enough for their track record so far.

I've never seen them as hugely innovative but rather very good at taking solid concepts from PC and working out how to get them to work in a console/TV environment.

So full level editors on PC becomes Forge on console - not as good in scope but still pretty cool and probably the best compromise given the platform.

MP becomes split screen co-op (PC as a platform by it's nature has never been an obvious home for coop even though technically could support it better than a console) and then full MP.

In terms of the games I feel Halo was great but had some terrible levels and the odd lack of polish here and there - although to be fair it was rushed to meet a deadline and where it's polished it remains very, very good.

Halo 2 seemed to lose the plot with SP while showing a shift to focusing on MP in terms of inovation respective to Halo. It was great to see MP working that well on console but again it felt more like Bungie working out (with MS infrastructure backing) how to take something proven elsewhere and bring it to a new platform.

Halo 3 SP I thought was a weak re-tread of Halo with suprisingly weak graphics engine for 360 - I felt it was Halo 3 running on Halo 2.5 engine. For me Halo 3 remains one of this generations clearly over praised titles at launch. A solid title that showed both a degree of overcaution as well as a sense it was rushed somewhat to launch at a specific time for the console rather than when the game would have been fully polished.

ODST should clearly have been an expansion pack IMHO but was re-purposed for larger marketing impact by MS as a full release.

Reach saw Bungie finally deliver decent tech for 360 but had a lacklustre SP although the MP was very good and Forge was nicely extended.

So I think they get fair enough recognition for a fairly limited stable of products the bulk of which have been refinements rather than any big jumps or risks.

Certainly I'd say as an individual company (removing the MS element of huge marketing backing, etc) they haven't really matched the likes of Valve in number and variety of successful titles never mind Valve basically delivering the PC equivilent of Live without the backing of a global giant like MS.

They are very good though. I hope freed from the need to deliver conveyor belt Halo titles they'll really show what they can do as every Halo title has in one way or another had artifical constraints IMHO from being rushed to having to conform to MS overarching vision for the Xbox platform.

 

[i-Lo]

Gotta agree with my Killzone 2 brothers. Bungie has been shown plenty of love for their unique series. Guerrilla Games have been criminally underrated for what they did with Killzone 2. The best pure FPS this gen and a classic.

I agree especially in terms of setting atmosphere and the AI (that's just fantastic).

With regards to Bungie, they have advanced the MP sector in console shooters by leaps and bounds and for that they should be both credited and recognized.

 

[ViolentP]

So, if you've never heard of pathways, marathon, or myth, then 5 halo games means they suck. Ok, I get it.

They also invented the vidmaster challenge, in 1992, noobs. The freakin WW2 mod for myth was better than ANY commercial WW2 RTS, until Company of Heroes came out!! (as far as tactics gameplay goes)


I'd argue that they were the Valve of the mac platform, until financial shit made them go to M$. Shit, most console kiddies don't even know about Valve, neogaf aside.

You lost me at noobs.

At M$, I lost respect for you.

At console kiddies, I made an appointment for a vasectomy.

 

[Tashi]

Gotta agree with my Killzone 2 brothers. Bungie has been shown plenty of love for their unique series. Guerrilla Games have been criminally underrated for what they did with Killzone 2. The best pure FPS this gen and a classic.

It's a shooting game where the shooting sucks. What?

 

[i-Lo]

It's a shooting where the shooting sucks. What?

Think the overall picture is about Guerilla Games. They perfected the controls in KZ3 and so the devs are not incompetent that way.

 

[VVIS]

You lost me at noobs.

At M$, I lost respect for you.

At console kiddies, I made an appointment for a vasectomy.

So you're saying that the average call of duty player has heard of Valve?

 

[The Librarian]

What's a "pure FPS"?

I played through KZ2 once and never touched it again. I'm remember feeling claustrophobic, and the encounters being very static.

 

[Overdoziz]

Bungie gave us AR/SMG starts 3 games in a row. That doesn't deserve you anything.

 

[GrizzNKev]

Wow, this thread is funny. It's pretty clear that it's only cool to hate Bungie right now. Maybe because of Reach, but that's just the phase we're in. Things will change after they release their next game, I'm sure.

 

[Tashi]

Think the overall picture is about Guerilla Games. They perfected the controls in KZ3 and so the devs are not incompetent that way.

I was just speaking his statement about KZ2. I never played part 3 and it could be great for all I know.

 

[PrinceOfApathy]

Listen. Guerrilla shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Bungie. Look, all I have is a Ps3 now, and I loved the Killzone series, but I can't think of a more horribly mismanaged franchise than the Killzone games.

Fantastic lore they simply could not build around, they completely focus tested the muti-player and went in the complete opposite direction.

They honestly deserve to have the franchise taken away from them and given to someone that can write a plot, pace the games better and not destroy the multiplayer.

As much as Bungie fucked up through the years leading to the comical Halo 3. No studio has fluffed their own work more than Guerrilla.

 

[Omotesando]

Halo to me has always been the Gundam of the US.

As an avid Counterstrike player Halo CE never seem to entice me.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

It's a shooting game where the shooting sucks. What?

sucks? it has unmatched gunplay. No game has ever had more satisfying gunplay. The recoil and bullet spread mechanics are truly a marvel. First person cover is a untouched mechanic in FPS and it works like a charm. The AI is simply magnificent, more impressive than Bungie's IMO. Than you got the innovation of warzone and dynamic spawn point in MP. Game is something else and its a shame it gets so much hate simply for having different controls

 

[Raoh]

I'm no halo fan so they do nothing for me.

But, from what I've read and heard, they did a better job of catering to their core audience than companies like socom etc do.

Mind you they also were under the rule of MS that doesn't let devs stray like sony does.

Their next few games will make or break them. I wish them success either way.

 

[Booshka]

sucks? it has unmatched gunplay. No game has ever had more satisfying gunplay. The recoil and bullet spread mechanics are truly a marvel. First person cover is a untouched mechanic in FPS and it works like a charm. The AI is simply magnificent, more impressive than Bungie's IMO. Than you got the innovation of warzone and dynamic spawn point in MP. Game is something else and its a shame it gets so much hate simply for having different controls

Didn't Killzone 2 have horrible input lag? I've heard people extol the virtues of its realistic gun mechanics before, but if you have any sense of input delay, it all goes out the window, TrounceX style.

 

[freddy]

Wow, this thread is funny. It's pretty clear that it's only cool to hate Bungie right now. Maybe because of Reach, but that's just the phase we're in. Things will change after they release their next game, I'm sure.

Yep, everyone here is a sheep and is not capable of original thought or critique. Just a bunch of stupid, trend followers. Except you, of course. You're the smartest here.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

Didn't Killzone 2 have horrible input lag?

no, i never experienced and lag test show its only slightly higher than Halo 3

 

[Kapura]

Bungie has always striven for innovation, and they have great online support to boot. They listen to and interface with the fans, and they are clearly more concerned about putting out a great product than making loads of cash.

 

[Raoh]

Listen. Guerrilla shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Bungie. Look, all I have is a Ps3 now, and I loved the Killzone series, but I can't think of a more horribly mismanaged franchise than the Killzone games.

.

Add resistance to that list, socom too, sigh... my heart drops when I think of socom.

I blame sony/fans/media

They never should have caved in a changed the controls of killzone 2, I liked it pre patch, screw gamers complaining/wanting it to be more like halo/cod.

I'd rather the slow sluggish big boot wearing killzone 2 movement over the halo movement.

halo always felt more like an unreal tournament/quake clone. not talking about skill level etc, just feels like if you wanted to play halo why not just pick up quake/ut instead? I guess on consoles/xbox it made more sense to go with halo.

People always talk about halo story/lore yet.. When I played halo online, none of my friends had even received an achievement for completing the first chapter of the halo games, everyone went straight to online, which, unless your playing with friends, I found boring.

Halo CE Co Op was awesome though. I played the hell out of the co op.

 

[Pranay]

Add resistance to that list, socom too, sigh... my heart drops when I think of socom.

I blame sony/fans/media

They never should have caved in a changed the controls of killzone 2, I liked it pre patch, screw gamers complaining/wanting it to be more like halo/cod.

I'd rather the slow sluggish big boot wearing killzone 2 movement over the halo movement.

halo always felt more like an unreal tournament/quake clone. not talking about skill level etc, just feels like if you wanted to play halo why not just pick up quake/ut instead? I guess on consoles/xbox it made more sense to go with halo.

People always talk about halo story/lore yet.. When I played halo online, none of my friends had even received an achievement for completing the first chapter of the halo games, everyone went straight to online, which, unless your playing with friends, I found boring.

Halo CE Co Op was awesome though. I played the hell out of the co op.

R3 was awesome. R2 was bad though i agree.

Anyways I dont see how halo is ut/quake clone err

Halo has its own identity and its pretty much plays differently from others and thats why i prefer halo over the games u mentioned

 

[Booshka]

Add resistance to that list, socom too, sigh... my heart drops when I think of socom.

I blame sony/fans/media

They never should have caved in a changed the controls of killzone 2, I liked it pre patch, screw gamers complaining/wanting it to be more like halo/cod.

I'd rather the slow sluggish big boot wearing killzone 2 movement over the halo movement.

halo always felt more like an unreal tournament/quake clone. not talking about skill level etc, just feels like if you wanted to play halo why not just pick up quake/ut instead? I guess on consoles/xbox it made more sense to go with halo.

People always talk about halo story/lore yet.. When I played halo online, none of my friends had even received an achievement for completing the first chapter of the halo games, everyone went straight to online, which, unless your playing with friends, I found boring.

Halo CE Co Op was awesome though. I played the hell out of the co op.

This is why Halo is a great series, it is a Quake/UT clone, especially Halo CE. But, Bungie knew that you can't do the quick twitch controls of Quake/UT, so they slowed it down a bit and made it so the aiming was more suitable for a controller. But, the gameplay was still based on the style of an Arena shooter (Halo CE specifically). I could say the same thing about Killzone or Socom, if you like those style games, why not play Battlefield 2 Project Reality, Counter-Strike or ArMa? There is nothing wrong with playing and enjoying console shooters that are modified "clones" of PC shooters.

 

[Forkball]

Halo gave the Xbox legitimacy. Without it, who knows what would have happened. The reason they aren't mentioned in the same breath as other major third parties such as Capcom, Valve, Blizzard, EA etc. is that, well, they've focused on one franchise for a decade. They haven't shown us that they can do other things besides Halo.

 

[I H8 Memes]

So you're saying that the average call of duty player has heard of Valve?

I bet more COD players know Valves name than know Infinity Ward or Treyarchs name. As crazy as that sounds. Valve is just the bigger name of the 3. Most probably think MS or Activision are the developers of COD.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Gold tier developer. Depressing thread.

 

[Overdoziz]

I bet more COD players know Valves name than know Infinity Ward or Treyarchs name. As crazy as that sounds. Valve is just the bigger name of the 3. Most probably think MS or Activision are the developers of COD.

What?

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Bungie has made absolutely zero games that I really care about. Halo 1 was a neat console game when it came out I guess. The matchmaking in Halo 2 was kind of neat when it came out but it has basically become a disease that has infected everything. They have no achievements to their name other than dumbing down a PC genre for consoles. The Halo campaigns are all dull with mediocre/repetitive level design and the multiplayer is solid but pretty vanilla in the grand scheme (would rather play Q3 or anything really).

 

[Shake Appeal]

They haven't shown us that they can do other things besides Halo.

For anyone who played videogames before 2001, and anyone who ever owned a Macintosh, they already have.

 

[PrinceOfApathy]

I personally would have gone further. I loved the weighted/geared soldier feel in Killzone 2 as well. I would have left the controls the exact same for Killzone 3 single player.

BUT

Killzone 3 Multiplayer. CoD and BF3 have their own monopoly on the fast, perk based chaos.

I would have taken Warzone. The usual Assassination, S&D, S&R , Bodycount , Capture and Hold.

The same classes, but included a more robust unlock weapon system for each class, but the same abilities or re balance them slightly.

My only difference would be KZ3 would be the first fully hardcore tactical sim-type AAA multiplayer game on consoles. Mid sized maps of only 8vs8, built around rigid strict team buddy to buddy play with a hardcore SWAT3/SWAT4 feel.

Why did they have to go the Call of Duty route. Call of Duty customers are already satisfied by their own game. Its best to create your own avenue, and go down a different path, even if you fail, it wouldn't be out of a "me-too" syndrome.

 

[Arnie]

Think the overall picture is about Guerilla Games. They perfected the controls in KZ3 and so the devs are not incompetent that way.

Killzone 3 was one of the worst shooters I've played this generation, and I say that without hesitation. I thought Killzone 2 was decent, but definitely not above and beyond 'good' territory.

To regard Guerrilla in the same breath as Bungie is ridiculous. In terms of both innovation and execution they're a few leagues apart.

 

[PrinceOfApathy]

Killzone 3 was one of the worst shooters I've played this generation, and I say that without hesitation. I thought Killzone 2 was decent, but definitely not above and beyond 'good' territory.

To regard Guerrilla in the same breath as Bungie is ridiculous. In terms of both innovation and execution they're a few leagues apart.

Its not that Guerrilla aren't talented they just need serious direction and guidance.

 

[Mandoric]

Halo to me has always been the Gundam of the US.

I'm really curious at the logic behind this.

 

[Mobius 1]

I definitely don't think they do.

I think I'm in the minority when I say that though.

I'm with you. I enjoy what they have done, but on the other hand see it for they those titles are.

Bungie has terrible animation - the work on the Halo games has been always subpar given the budget of the projects.

 

[FieryBalrog]

They made one great game. Halo was a big deal. Speaking as a hardcore PC fanboy, I enjoyed Halo 1 more than most FPS on the PC even though I still maintain m/kb is the "true" best way to play FPS. Even things like regenerating health were huge (I don't care if they invented it, they popularized it), medpacks basically sucked 30% of the fun outta Half Life 2 for me. Seamless integration of vehicles, grenades, open maps, weapon types and limitations, and game options made for an amazing local multiplayer experience.

And then they churned out more of that game for 10 years.
Eh.

Also can we stop bringing up Myth and Marathon, that's like saying "oh em gee, Blizzard totally has 5 pillar franchises, remember Lost Vikings and Rock N' Roll Racing???"