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[hateradio]

And later the Quarians came back to fight again. And some organic race would fight them at some point cause that is what we do. At some point the Geth would simply say fuck this, they are too big of a threat, lets get rid of them so we can finally be in peace.

That was only caused because the Reapers intervene. They've fucked everything up and then blame it on the organics/synthetic divide.

It's clearly a case of planted evidence.

 

[bigace33]

The whole Geth is peaceful thing is way too simple of a view. Yes the Geth are peaceful, but the second they were threatened by the Quarians they went into war mode and destroyed them and took over their planet. Now there is peace but what happens when some stupid organic species tries to take over, or starts some war. The Geth will once again see that the best course of action is to destroy the organics, eventually it will get so bad that the Geth will reach the conclusion that organic life is too much of a threat.

Organic life will never live in peace. It is 100% true that we are chaos, we start wars, we fight each other, that will never change. Peaceful AI will be provoked and will be left with no choice.

That's so stupid though, any life form would defend themselves if attacked. The Geth did what any organics would have done. I'm not seeing the difference.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

That was only caused because the Reapers intervene. They've fucked everything up and then blame it on the organics/synthetic divide.

It's clearly a case of planted evidence.

Reapers sprinkling cocaine and placing a handgun on Earth comic, now!

 

[Almighty]

And later the Quarians came back to fight again. And some organic race would fight them at some point cause that is what we do. At some point the Geth would simply say fuck this, they are too big of a threat, lets get rid of them so we can finally be in peace.

Well if they didn't want to wipe out the Quarians letting them go and risking them coming back was the only other option. I doubt the Quarians were open to sharing their home world with the geth after the war. Hell even during the 300 years or so after it seems talking or trying to negotiate with the geth never crossed their minds.

Your point does have some merit though.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Even if the new Geth did decide to attack organics, I wouldn't care. They are more than synthetics. They are the equivalent of organics, but with metal bodies. They might think slightly differently, but so do the other races. They also now have to fear the consequences of war, such as permadeath.

 

[Shepard]

Was this already posted?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yPJj8efNskM

If you fail grissom academy, Jack appears later in the game as a Phantom neat.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Reading the last couple of pages...its like talking to a brick wall. No matter how many holes in the argument exist, just keep on keeping on.

 

[hateradio]

That's so stupid though, any life form would defend themselves if attacked. The Geth did what any organics would have done. I'm not seeing the difference.

The only difference is that a VI version of the Vent Kid told us that it would happen over and over again. Because it knows things. It knows things. Things. Cycles. *whisper*Cycle.*whisper*

Reapers sprinkling cocaine and placing a handgun on Earth comic, now!

Do it.

Reading the last couple of pages...its like talking to a brick wall. No matter how many holes in the argument exist, just keep on keeping on.

They're only doing what they're programed to do.

 

[LuchaShaq]

Nope. The plot hole is the Reapers attacking Earth first instead of the Citadel (as they had no problem capturing it) or the Reapers not disabling Mass Relays once in possession of the Citadel.

Can't agree with you here.

The leader of the only group to kill a reaper who also destroyed a collector base? A fucking human. Odds are he/she could be distracted/killed off early by hitting earth hard and fast. Hell Shepherd wanted to stay and lead the resistance with Andersen but Andersen was smart enough to tell him/her to get his/her ass out of there and to the citadel.

Also attacking the citadel first (without being able to use it like the giant mass relay aka what soverign was trying to do) would be the QUICKEST way to make all of the space faring races band together and be a possible threat.

Remember the harvesting takes decades, people on the citadel didn't even seem to give a shit about anything besides possibly their home world until cerberus attacked.

Also by attacking Thessia/Earth/Palaven the hardest they force million upon millions into quick and easy subjugation by indoctrinated politicians who tell their civilians to do what the reapers say or risk death. This gives them almost infinite husks to throw at other places as ground troops Those that escape? Most flock to the citadel where they could easily be harvested at the end.

 

[ElFly]

Nope. The plot hole is the Reapers attacking Earth first instead of the Citadel (as they had no problem capturing it) or the Reapers not disabling Mass Relays once in possession of the Citadel.

The citadel was never in danger until a cycle finally completed the crucible, though.

Reapers not deactivating the mass relays is weird, yes. But I guess that the reapers still need them (as shown in the ME2 Arrival DLC) and the reapers know that organics pose next to no threat to them anyway.

 

[danwarb]

Why the solution would be a cycle of brutal mass slaughter, and why it's somehow worthwhile for them to go to all of that trouble just to maintain a simple grounded population of organics, is the part I don't get.

It makes some sense if it's really about keeping synthetics down to protect their own dominance, harvesting the most successful species to further themselves like the Borg or something.

 

[Dresden]

Can't agree with you here.

The leader of the only group to kill a reaper who also destroyed a collector base? A fucking human. Odds are he/she could be distracted/killed off early.

Also attacking the citadel first (without being able to use it like the giant mass relay aka what soverign was trying to do) would be the QUICKEST way to make all of the space faring races band together and be a possible threat.

Remember the harvesting takes decades, people on the citadel didn't even seem to give a shit about anything besides possibly their home world until cerberus attacked.

Also by attacking Thessia/Earth/Palaven the hardest they force million upon millions into quick and easy subjugation by indoctrinated politicians who tell their civilians to do what the reapers say or risk death. This gives them almost infinite husks to throw at other places as ground troops Those that escape? Most flock to the citadel where they could easily be harvested at the end.

Attacking the citadel first means they take out the heads of the major galactic powers, seize control of the figurative center of the galaxy, and permanently divide all opposition as they are no longer able to use a good portion of the mass relays to band together. So long as there's a sizeable Reaper presence there all travel through it gets frozen. It just makes sense.

Attack Earth and you just called down the wrath of the Space Jesus on your heads.

 

[alerus]

Until someone tries to kill them or control them. They didn't have some don't kill organics program installed. They simply want to help and be at peace. The second they are threatened they will defend themselves.

Here's a novel idea: don't threaten them with genocide. I know, what a burden it is on us organics to suppress our desire to kill every last one of them. Really, the Geth are the ones at fault and we need to do something about them! And the nerve of them setting aside their differences and helping the Quarians resettle their world. Truly, these are the spawns of satan and it's quite clear that organics and synthetics can never get along.

 

[jediyoshi]

Dat Javik cray.

The whole Geth is peaceful thing is way too simple of a view. Yes the Geth are peaceful, but the second they were threatened by the Quarians they went into war mode and destroyed them and took over their planet. Now there is peace but what happens when some stupid organic species tries to take over, or starts some war. The Geth will once again see that the best course of action is to destroy the organics, eventually it will get so bad that the Geth will reach the conclusion that organic life is too much of a threat.

The Geth did put up with a lot before retaliating though. Their endgame was never taking the planet over, just ensuring they wouldn't get wiped out.

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

My ending: Shepard, Tali, and Garrus go through the conduit and fight through the citadel in remake of the Mass Effect 1 ending and confront TIM in the council control room. Harbinger assumes direct control, Shepard wins, and the Crucible shoots out space magic that only targets the organic goop the reapers used in the collector base. The relays don't explode and Sheppard and Tali retire to the Pinnacle Station apartment.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Attacking the citadel first means they take out the heads of the major galactic powers, seize control of the figurative center of the galaxy, and permanently divide all opposition as they are no longer able to use a good portion of the mass relays to band together. So long as there's a sizeable Reaper presence there all travel through it gets frozen. It just makes sense.

I think it makes sense as a surprise tactic. They lost the element of surprise here, and the Citadel really isn't all that important. As LuchaShaq pointed out, the number of colonists out there is in the millions, while the homeworlds are in the billions.

Destroy the power base, and then wipe up the leavings.

 

[MiamiWesker]

I guess, but this would also mean that Sovereign is lying and the Reapers are not the pinnacle of life because they are still flawed. Really there is no answer that anyone could come up with as to why the Reapers do what they do. The best and simplest answer is that they are concerned about their own survival.

The reapers do what they do cause someone programmed them to do so. Are you talking about why they harvest and stuff like that, they do that to stay more advanced than the current cycle.

 

[jackdoe]

The citadel was never in danger until a cycle finally completed the crucible, though.

Reapers not deactivating the mass relays is weird, yes. But I guess that the reapers still need them (as shown in the ME2 Arrival DLC) and the reapers know that organics pose next to no threat to them anyway.

? Reapers don't need Mass Relays. They have all the time in the world. Also, the Citadel was still a center of Government and taking it away would have been a logical move.

 

[Shepard]

Reading the last couple of pages...its like talking to a brick wall. No matter how many holes in the argument exist, just keep on keeping on.

Everyone is giving their own thoughts on the matter, either people believe in the reapers and it all makes sense, or people don't believe in them and tell everything is a plothole.

 

[LuchaShaq]

Attacking the citadel first means they take out the heads of the major galactic powers, seize control of the figurative center of the galaxy, and permanently divide all opposition as they are no longer able to use a good portion of the mass relays to band together. So long as there's a sizeable Reaper presence there all travel through it gets frozen. It just makes sense.

If the hit the citadel first Shep doesn't have to trot around the galaxy curing the genophage/solving the geth-quarian dispute etc.

All of the galactic civilizations would immediately go on the offensive without a bunch of political bullshit.


Billions on palaven/earth/Thessia would be free to build and launch ships with any/all resources they had.

Would vastly increase the size of their fleets and fast.

Attacking the home worlds/fuel depots etc? No chance of that happening.

 

[littleworm]

Nope. The plot hole is the Reapers attacking Earth first instead of the Citadel (as they had no problem capturing it) or the Reapers not disabling Mass Relays once in possession of the Citadel.

Unless I missed something the Citadel doesn't turn off the other relays, the reason Sovereign went for it in the first game is because, its the relay that leads to dark space where the reapers hibernate. Usually the keepers open it form them but the Protheans stopped them from doing it so. That's why Sovereign went to open it himself. When he died the other reapers had to fly all the way there, and by that point the advantage of the Citadel is lost, so there was little reason to capture it.

 

[hateradio]

http://i.imgur.com/9FG7Q.png

Dat Javik cray.

What's more crazy is that Thane is tweeting you that he has little time left. That's beyond ridiculous.

It makes me wonder. Do people tweet in their death bed? I don't want to think about it.

The reapers do what they do cause someone programmed them to do so. Are you talking about why they harvest and stuff like that, they do that to stay more advanced than the current cycle.

That's not what the Catalyst said. Reapers harvest organics to preserve them from the synthetics those organics create. Not to stay more advanced.

 

[MiamiWesker]

That's so stupid though, any life form would defend themselves if attacked. The Geth did what any organics would have done. I'm not seeing the difference.

That eventually advanced AI will be way more powerful than any organic life and the end calculation or whatever process AI goes through will see that the best way for peace will be to kill all organics.

 

[jackdoe]

If the hit the citadel first Shep doesn't have to trot around the galaxy curing the genophage/solving the geth-quarian dispute etc.

All of the galactic civilizations would immediately go on the offensive without a bunch of political bullshit.

Bullshit. Every race would turtle instead.

Unless I missed something the Citadel doesn't turn off the other relays, the reason Sovereign went for it in the first game is because, its the relay that leads to dark space where the reapers hibernate. Usually the keepers open it form them but the Protheans stopped them from doing it so. That's why Sovereign went to open it himself. When he died the other reapers had to fly all the way there, and by that point the advantage of the Citadel is lost, so there was little reason to capture it.

ME1.

 

[MiamiWesker]

Here's a novel idea: don't threaten them with genocide. I know, what a burden it is on us organics to suppress our desire to kill every last one of them. Really, the Geth are the ones at fault and we need to do something about them! And the nerve of them setting aside their differences and helping the Quarians resettle their world. Truly, these are the spawns of satan and it's quite clear that organics and synthetics can never get along.

Have humans ever always gotten along? It seems to me like the ME universe has had a bunch of wars. It crazy to assume that everyone was going to live happily ever after and there would be galactic peace forever.

 

[hateradio]

That eventually advanced AI will be way more powerful than any organic life and the end calculation or whatever process AI goes through will see that the best way for peace will be to kill all organics.

Which is what the Reapers are essentially doing, yet they don't have a moment to realize their paradox?

 

[ElFly]

? Reapers don't need Mass Relays. They have all the time in the world. Also, the Citadel was still a center of Government and taking it away would have been a logical move.

Destroying a mass relay in Arrival means they are delayed a few months.

Maybe they can just slowly travel through space without them, but they def. use them.

 

[alerus]

Everyone is giving their own thoughts on the matter, either people believe in the reapers and it all makes sense, or people don't believe in them and tell everything is a plothole.

No, that's not true. Even putting aside the synthetics are evil things, you have failed to explain why the Reaper solution is a good one when there are numerous other options, including the synthesis option which is an option explicitly provided in the game. The closest you've come for defending why that wasn't done at the start was because organics were not advanced enough. Yet this is clearly irrelevant when plants get hybridized. What is the reason for waiting until later?

 

[LuchaShaq]

That's not what the Catalyst said. Reapers harvest organics to preserve them from the synthetics those organics create. Not to stay more advanced.

Why can't it be both?


No reason for the reapers to not continually improve themselves from cycle to cycle incase one cycle has Super geth that can actually rival the reapers.

 

[littleworm]

ME1.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you're trying to tell me.

 

[jackdoe]

Destroying a mass relay in Arrival means they are delayed a few months.

Maybe they can just slowly travel through space without them, but they def. use them.

Yes, but if other races can't use them, they can't organize.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you're trying to tell me.

It was stated in Mass Effect 1. Control of the Citadel leads to control of Mass Relay network. Which is one reason to still attack it first. Prevent Shepard from gathering allies in different parts of the galaxies.

 

[MechaX]

Which is what the Reapers are essentially doing, yet they don't have a moment to realize their paradox?

BEYOND COMPREHENSION

 

[MiamiWesker]

Which is what the Reapers are essentially doing, yet they don't have a moment to realize their paradox?

The Reapers are not doing that. They are specifically keeping young organic life alive so they can start the new cycle. They are cleansing the advanced organic life to stop them from creating the super killer AI.

 

[LuchaShaq]

Bullshit. Every race would turtle instead.


.

Yes but if they did turtle they would have billions on those planets to expand the size of their fleets while the reapers wasted time at the citadel.

Would increase the chances of reaper failure from .00000001 to.00000002

 

[Shepard]

No, that's not true. Even putting aside the synthetics are evil things, you have failed to explain why the Reaper solution is a good one when there are numerous other options, including the synthesis option which is an option explicitly provided in the game. The closest you've come for defending why that wasn't done at the start was because organics were not advanced enough. Yet this is clearly irrelevant when plants get hybridized. What is the reason for waiting until later?

Plants aren't intelligent beings: give a dumb man infinite power and it will cause a disaster, give a dumb plant infinite power and it will do nothing.

 

[MechaX]

The Reapers are not doing that. They are specifically keeping young organic life alive so they can start the new cycle. They are cleansing the advanced organic life to stop them from creating the super killer AI.

In which, at least according to Sovereign, they are groomed and guided to evolve to the point of... creating super killer AI...

 

[alerus]

Have humans ever always gotten along? It seems to me like the ME universe has had a bunch of wars. It crazy to assume that everyone was going to live happily ever after and there would be galactic peace forever.

Civilization is on a steady upward trend of tolerance. Beyond that, what you're saying is whether one is synthetic or not is completely irrelevant to the equation, so why is it being brought up?

 

[MiamiWesker]

In which, at least according to Sovereign, they are groomed and guided to evolve to the point of... creating super killer AI...

Yes the Sovereign thing is where things get messy. Seems like back in ME1 this story was not in place. Clearly Bioware changed it, oh well.

 

[danwarb]

Push the button to open the Citadel. Big explosion, black screen. The End.

 

[Almighty]

I'm sorry I don't understand what you're trying to tell me.

It been a little bit, but if I remember right the VI toward the end of ME1(his name escapes me at the moment) pretty much says that the Citadel is the control center of the relay network. If the reapers get there they will be able to turn off the relays at will cutting systems off from each other. That's what they did to the Protheans.

 

[hateradio]

Why can't it be both?


No reason for the reapers to not continually improve themselves from cycle to cycle incase one cycle has Super geth that can actually rival the reapers.

Because we were never explicitly told this. Moreover, the Reapers view organics as ants (taken from Harbinger's conversation from the first game). They view themselves as gods; they don't need to improve if that's the case. However, they extend their hand to organics in order to "preserve" them and offer them a chance to become Reapers through brutal annihilation. Isn't that sweet?

 

[Zeliard]

How come the Reapers pretty much all had the same basic shape, anyway? Aren't they supposed to take on the visual characteristics of whatever species they each assimilated?

When they were trying to make the human Reaper he looked like the damn Terminator - a humanoid. So why are all the rest Squid Things?

 

[alerus]

Plants aren't intelligent beings: give a dumb man infinite power and it will cause a disaster, give a dumb plant infinite power and it will do nothing.

So now synthesis gave people infinite power? What power is that exactly? Further, your stipulation then is on the responsibility of organics to wield additional power? How exactly has this been demonstrated in the galaxy? Really, if it weren't for Shepard and all organics in previous cycles they would have never gotten there. Further, the races are quite varied. Take the Krogan for instance, they got the upgrades despite the fact that save for Wrex, who might not even be alive, they're all blood thirsty. People like Cerberus got the upgrades, etc. This power did not discriminate in giving it to people who were "ready." It gave it to every single thing in the galaxy. Presumably then, that includes intelligent pre-civilization life forms too.

 

[SerArthurDayne]

Have humans ever always gotten along? It seems to me like the ME universe has had a bunch of wars. It crazy to assume that everyone was going to live happily ever after and there would be galactic peace forever.

Who cares? That was the second biggest detractor to the destroy ending. Peace won't last. I don't want or expect peace to last. I don't expect peace to last with the green juice either, unless you effectively mindwipe everyone you convert, which is equally fucked up.

Tell the Reapers to fuck off and control our own destiny for better or worse.

 

[Dresden]

How come the Reapers pretty much all had the same basic shape, anyway? Aren't they supposed to take on the visual characteristics of whatever species they each assimilated?

When they were trying to make the human Reaper he looked like the damn Terminator - a humanoid. So why are all the rest Squid Things?

laziness maybe they're all like snails and inside the big squid-shaped husk are thousands of different configurations

 

[Zomba13]

How come the Reapers pretty much all had the same basic shape, anyway? Aren't they supposed to take on the visual characteristics of whatever species they each assimilated?

When they were trying to make the human Reaper he looked like the damn Terminator - a humanoid. So why are all the rest Squid Things?

I think it's SPECULATION'd that the squid thing is like the shell/armour and inside the reapers look different.

 

[MiamiWesker]

How come the Reapers pretty much all had the same basic shape, anyway? Aren't they supposed to take on the visual characteristics of whatever species they each assimilated?

When they were trying to make the human Reaper he looked like the damn Terminator - a humanoid. So why are all the rest Squid Things?

This is a good one. I forgot, why were they making a human reaper?

 

[Almighty]

How come the Reapers pretty much all had the same basic shape, anyway? Aren't they supposed to take on the visual characteristics of whatever species they each assimilated?

When they were trying to make the human Reaper he looked like the damn Terminator - a humanoid. So why are all the rest Squid Things?

My understanding is that human reaper when he was done would of been put inside one of those squids.

I have seen people say that, but don't know where they got it from. If it was mentioned in game i personally missed it, but that is what i was told.

 

[ElFly]

Yes, but if other races can't use them, they can't organize.


It was stated in Mass Effect 1. Control of the Citadel leads to control of Mass Relay network. Which is one reason to still attack it first. Prevent Shepard from gathering allies in different parts of the galaxies.

Yeah, but then it would take thousands of years to harvest them all.

Besides, the organics never presented a threat to the reapers so why shut them down.

 

[littleworm]

It was stated in Mass Effect 1. Control of the Citadel leads to control of Mass Relay network. Which is one reason to still attack it first. Prevent Shepard from gathering allies in different parts of the galaxies.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I am going to have to ask for a link, I'm looking at the wikia page and it says that it only acts as a relay to dark space. I don't see where it talks about the Citadel being able to turn off the other relays.