lol. Again, that's like saying "but all are previous examples of civil rights were of straight people, gays are different!" You're going to have to explain why being human versus synthetic is an important distinction that is insurmountable beyond "it is."
Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
- Thread starter XANDER CAGE
- Start date
- Status
lol. Again, that's like saying "but all are previous examples of civil rights were of straight people, gays are different!" You're going to have to explain why being human versus synthetic is an important distinction that is insurmountable beyond "it is."
Apophenia Overload
Member
I get that but I just feel that it doesn't fit well with ME 3's gritty-as-hell, fuck-we're-all-gonna-die, Shepard-must-become-the-space-messiah setting. I think I'm warming up to the Joker/EDI relationship on the basis that upon second thought, Joker is a loser with too much porn and probably would bone the first willing quasi-female. But I still think turning it into a romance trivialized their epic tale of overcoming prejudice and fear from ME 2.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Woah there, what VI civilization?
edit: oh hang on, I have some vague planet scan popping into my memory. Yes, I seem to recall coming across this thing, but it was hardly a civ., I thought.
(and I got the impression the Protheans were still at war, that's why they "united" until the reapers started shooting)
littleworm
Member
That's the point I'm going for, The Catalyst states that the reapers purpose is to prevent synthetics form killing all the organics, that's why they come by every 50,000 years and kill all the advanced races. He states that now the Reaper plan has failed and can no longer work as they can now be defeated by the organics (destruction). He then offers two alternatives, my point is that these alternatives are not solutions at all, because they fail to stop the organic vs synthetic or in the case of the synthesis ending hybrid vs. synthetic war from happening. The only way to ensure that this war wont happen is ironically killing all the organics.
Riposte
Member
I would say ME2 did, while ME3 reached visual novel/eroge level.
We all know all Mass Effect thread will inevitably lead to one singular picture. The cycle has happened more times than we can imagine.
Maybe the destruction of the mass relays is different when sent from the Citadel? This isn't just a "bombard the mass relays" thing.
till you guys are developed enough and we can live in peace believing this is an awesome ending.
Apophenia Overload
Member
This. EDI's "little lost droid who must learn this human emotion you call... love" shtick is more of an anime-like cliche to me than Kai Leng is. Though in anime it's not restricted to robots, but you get the idea.
No, it's merely evidence that it's possible to get along and therefore it is not inevitable that synthetics will destroy organics. If you think other synthetics will necessarily be created that are evil, then you're going to have argue why.
Futurevoid
Member
The problem is that if you don't establish sympathy for synthetic life, the choice at the end becomes fairly meaningless. If the Geth weren't pushed into conflict and were the aggressors why would I have any interest in preserving them? You're given the ability to dispense with them in general during the game during the Quarian conflict but the game does need to show that synthetic life is worth preserving thus proving the Catalyst wrong...Almighty said:
A measure he seems to be actively avoiding of course hence why synthesis is viewed as the next possible step forward. Not the guaranteed end to the cycle.littleworm said:
Really?
Barack Lesnar
Banned
I'll take some 1080p pics tomorrow morning during the Cerberus infiltration mission and with the white outfit, have to go to bed.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Maybe the destruction of the mass relays is different when sent from the Citadel? This isn't just a "bombard the mass relays" thing.
till you guys are developed enough and we can live in peace believing this is an awesome ending.
Maybe. That way only millions die. And the Quarians are Genocided. Fuck it, probably billions. I'm pretty goddamn sure there isn't enough food for whatever is left of the 8billion humans on earth plus all the Asari and Krogan visitors.
Zomba13
Member
till you guys are developed enough and we can live in peace believing this is an awesome ending.
I suppose I don't have an option of saying fuck that and continuing to fight against it with my allied forces?
Because the catalyst saw and said so. Now tell me your evidence that synthetics will all be like the Geth and act friendly towards organics from now on.,
No, but you can pick a color.
We can always send them to Mars.
Though it's what I also chose, it's not really presented as the best option. Also, as others have mentioned, it rises several ethical concerns. In any case, it's one of the offered solutions, but it's not actually the best. If you decide to control the Reapers you could rebuild Mass Relays since you'd have the knowledge in your database, create yourself a body like that of EDI/EVA, and walk around like you always have.
Then you could fend off any bad synthetic lifeforms if they get out of line. However, again why does the universe need a cop? But that's the primary reason why the Reapers are idiotic. They think they're doing the best for everyone without acknowledging what they're doing is not always right.
Earth probably depends on extensive importing just to feed its population (not to mention all the stations it must have set up around the solar system). Every planet that can't sustain its population is going to get fucked.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Miranda's chair says differently. Very differently.
Yes, I'm afraid if you want your opinion to be taken seriously, you'll have to provide a valid argument for it instead of "This is different therefore they must kill each other." What about being synthetic makes the difference insurmountable in coexisting?
True. It still feels like you failed though. Sure you didn't do the absolute worse that you could of. Just slightly better. The whole known galaxy that you were trying to save is now gone as you know it. I guess best way to put it.
Based on the evidence presented in the two previous games, there's nothing to state why it should be any different.
Also, maybe is an ambiguous term that even Mac wants you to use. We are left with no fucking clue as to why any of it happened. Which is what adds to the ending being complete shit writing.
SerArthurDayne
Member
So do the colonies. They will just go dark. Maybe they can eat Reaper corpses.
Edit: Yeah, you kind of said that, sorry. Planets like Eden Prime basically support the entire human population. So those few millions still on Eden Prime will probably be fine. Everybody else, you are fucked.
The catalyst may be lying, though.
Chances are he is trying to save his sorry ass from the crucible.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
It does raise ethical concerns, for sure. You could still rebuild the Mass Relays with the synthetic ending though.
hateradio said:
What if a synthetic comes along that can destroy your technology? I would love to hear more backstory for the creation of the Reapers.
I will never let anyone eat Marauder Shields.
MiamiWesker
Member
Isnt that simply the best the AI can do. I doubt they ever planed for that moment and the AI simply came up with these choices on the fly based on the technology he found. The crucible was not made by the race that made the AI, it would not have chosen those option. So it just chose a few ways that would prolong the AI taking over.
Apophenia Overload
Member
It's space magic. They can say it's a different kind of explosion.
Of course, the problem is that the evidence isn't just presented in ME 1 and 2, but in ME 3 itself, since the Codex has an entry saying that trying to explode the Mass Relays to prevent the Reapers from getting to your system is a Very Bad Thing.
I prefer to call it "open"
To be fair, the evidence in the two previous games never pointed towards a destruction from within. I felt it was more like a deactivation .He didn't.
nom nom nom
Futurevoid
Member
This I somewhat understand as far as complaints go. Who/what is the Catalyst? Why did it create the Crucible and implement its "solution"? Why does "he" get to make these decisions? I think some of the issues would be alleviated if we knew more about its existence and what it has seen throughout the many cycles of its being.Karl2177 said:
The problem is that as writers, Bioware may have intended to leave that just the way it is so that folks like us can argue it ad nauseam on a game forum.
That makes some sense. If you choose destroy you're back with the possibility that one day some synthetic life forms will try to kill you. However, that's just speculative.
If you choose blue, you enter the matrix and become something else entirely, but everyone else is unaffected because you can save them.
Choosing green is the wildcard. But it has its own problems.
fail-safe?
Part of the weirdness, I think, is that you can control just the Reapers...or you can wipe out all synthetic life? How is that really an equivalent choice?
I should take your opinion serious when I find it to be moot considering that the gap between synthetics and humans is much more complex? The number one reason against coexisting is that it never has worked. While it could this time, the evidence is hard against it, agree?
Geth are not evil.
EDI is not evil.
The VI civ from ME2 is not evil.
Why would the galaxy create a new, non-geth based synthetic race? They didn't bother in creating a new FTL system and accepted the one they were given. They didn't replace the keepers and let the citadel run itself. All of them run the same omnitools. If they need synthetics, they will use the geth.
And even if they didn't there's no guarantee the new synthetics will go all terminators on them.
The Catalyst is just racist.
EDI is not evil.
The VI civ from ME2 is not evil.
Why would the galaxy create a new, non-geth based synthetic race? They didn't bother in creating a new FTL system and accepted the one they were given. They didn't replace the keepers and let the citadel run itself. All of them run the same omnitools. If they need synthetics, they will use the geth.
And even if they didn't there's no guarantee the new synthetics will go all terminators on them.
The Catalyst is just racist.
Open is one way. Lots of speculation is another. In any case, it's not a good way to end your series. At the end of Return of the Jedi were you wondering in great detail about everything else?I prefer to call it "open"
This I somewhat understand as far as complaints go. Who/what is the Catalyst? Why did it create the Crucible and implement its "solution"? Why does "he" get to make these decisions? I think some of the issues would be alleviated if we knew more about its existence and what it has seen throughout the many cycles of its being.
The problem is that as writers, Bioware may have intended to leave that just the way it is so that folks like us can argue it ad nauseam on a game forum.
Success!
This I somewhat understand as far as complaints go. Who/what is the Catalyst? Why did it create the Crucible and implement its "solution"? Why does "he" get to make these decisions? I think some of the issues would be alleviated if we knew more about its existence and what it has seen throughout the many cycles of its being.
The problem is that as writers, Bioware may have intended to leave that just the way it is so that folks like us can argue it ad nauseam on a game forum.
That is left for Bioware to explain in future games, books, etc.
littleworm
Member
Assuming what he says is true, why not just act as the enforcer of peace? Why couldn't they simply enforce peace between the Quarians and the Geth, through a means of M.A.D. Get along or we kill both of you.
I see we're back to saying it's so, so it must be. Maybe we should write a story where humanity decides to go to war with an alien race because they have purple hair. When the readers ask why humanity would start a war over something like that, we can say, "because that's how we wrote it." No need for a logical explanation people, in our story we've just decided that this will be an insurmountable difference!
The reason future synthetics can coexist is because you don't make an advanced being that is so stupid it's just war mongering. It's a remarkably childish notion to kill merely because things are different. And quite honestly, if you're making sentient AI, you have a really good handle on how intelligence works and so if you really wanted, you could even instill safe guards on the AI. As someone who does research in AI the notion of computers that "suddenly" become sentient and evil is remarkably stupid and such an idea has no concept of what it would mean for us to be able to create intelligent sentient beings.
You'll never get that back story because the conversation has to remain "High Level."
Also, what if if no synthetic comes along to destroy my technology? You can't speculate on the future.
Bunch of different races worked on the Crucible. They were just all wiped out by the Reaps before they could finish it up, so it went on to the next cycle. Until HUMANS.
However, the question should be, why didn't the Catalyst ever do anything about it? Dude isn't too quick on the uptake.
However, the question should be, why didn't the Catalyst ever do anything about it? Dude isn't too quick on the uptake.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Thanks, bro.
How is space magic even an option. I really don't understand how the Crucible works, but I'm pretty sure the goal was just to fuck up the reapers. They built in a space magic button?
Or the catalyst always had the power to space magic our problems away? If that is the case, why didn't he just build his own crucible?
AdmiralSnackbar
Member
It makes you decide if you want to uphold a buddy-buddy relationship with the Geth or if Sheppard dies,but he might die anyway soooooo........
SerArthurDayne
Member
I'm a big fan of the Geth. But they were a necessary sacrifice so I could murder Vent Kid.
Also, apparently Bioware fucked up coding, and sometimes EDI will come out during the destory ending. I'm sure some Geth made it.
MiamiWesker
Member
Escape Goat
Member
How did they move the Citadel to Earth? Does it have engines?
He didn't.
When humans finally put the citadel inside the crucible, they have check mated the reapers.
Organics won.
What happens next is that the catalyst tries a final gambit by trying to trick shepard into letting them go, or at least, letting them fuse organics and synthetics via their space magic. But the crucible still does its intended goal, and destroys the citadel and the mass relays.
How did the previous species even know about the Catalyst? Then to top it off, it's some vent hoodie kid... Protheans were smoking some good stuff to know that would help the fight against the Reapers.
I have asked this so many times. Nothing.
- Status