Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE
- Thread starter XANDER CAGE
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Well, that actually makes sense, I suppose, on some level.
Play Mass Effect 1 again? Or check out the Mass Effect Wiki page on Reapers:
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Reapers
It took Reapers thousands of years to finish of the Prothean Empire. They are cool with that.
I don't think that would need to be explained at all.
Reaper #23 - "Oh shit this cycle the geth have a targeting system that is .01% better we should implement that when we wipe this cycle"
I'm sure before the prothean cycle they had another husked species they used as foot troops, they either ran out of them or thought the protheans would work better as their collectors so they took them.
Seems pretty much common sense and no need for explanation.
You can't just elevate a whole species that has no commanding power, nor anyone capable of receiving the gift, to an elevated state. Organics came a long way, and giving the synthesis to them was the result of cycles and cycles of advancements. I really don't see what's so hard to understand here.
MiamiWesker
Member
That is what Shepard told the AI but the AI said no. Not much Shepard could do at that point. He still needed the AI to stop the reapers. As for why an AI would do what it does, who knows, it is all in the programming, there is nothing we can argue about, Bioware can create whatever backstory it needs to make the AI think the way it does.
I have been wondering the same thing.
WTF I just read?!
It's probably the reason why the Citadel was under attack in the first game. Although if the Catalyst was in there, and it controls the reapers, it wouldn't make sense for the Reapers to attack the Citadel.
The whole "inside the Geth" scenario should have shown that the Geth were capable of deciding that certain organics were ok to live with (hell they even state that they "honor" some of them for all eternity). If the Geth can decide that not all organics are enemies then they can also decide to fight only certain "factions" of organics. Thus an organic "faction" attempting to attack the Geth shouldn't necessarily spark a full on all synthetics vs all organics war.
Anyways, in regards to the ending, at first I thought I was appalled because all the endings looked similar because they were only separated by "different coloured explosions" or that it was the number of ridiculous plot holes that the endings open but now that I think about it, I don't think either of those are the issue. I think the major issue with the ending is that none of them show enough about what happens AFTER the "different coloured explosions".
I think they tried to just take the same approach as they did with the endings for Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, i.e. just end with a really large event (if you think about it, the endings for either route in both prior games aren't really all that different). While an ending like that works for a game that is expecting to get a sequel, I don't think it works for a game that should be the definitive end because it provides no real closure. If they had shown more of the aftermath involving the after stories of characters on your ship, or what happens to all the races in the galaxy (like at the end of the LOTR trilogy) I doubt that so many of us would be so disappointed.
I kind of wonder if they intentionally did this as a way to let the players fill the ending in themselves or if they are just planning to add aftermath DLC. I'm not sure which of those ideas is worse as they both sound really lazy to me. Either way, it just really sucks having a really awesome game feel so bad because of only 5 minutes.
SerArthurDayne
Member
But there was only one cycle of advancement. That is the Reapers whole thing. The only thing that advanced cycles was the Crucible, and the Crucible is kind of dumb. As I said before, there is really nothing special about this cycle. If anything, it was the Protheans who were special, because without them the Reaping is well done by this point.
Due to random luck and chance we deserve the "gift." Not buying it.
And this.
Also synthetic hats.
Liara mentions that it took 400 years for the prothean empire, and her estimations for the current galaxy are only 100 years.
The real time waster for the reapers is not the organic opposition, but the actual moving around and harvesting.
The point is the space magic gave it to everyone. You say you need to be responsible, but the point is, lots of the galactic civilization isn't. Again, see Krogan. And the "help" of the previous civilizations that allowed us to get there had nothing to do with making us more responsible. It had to do with gifting us plans for technology.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's never really explained. EDI implies that Reapers take on the physical form of the successfully harvested species, hence why the human Reaper looks the way it does. It isn't confirmed whether or not this 'look' is cased in the cuttlefish exterior, or if the cuttlefish design is also from a harvested species.
To put further fuel on the "Space Casper doesn't make any sense" pile, if the Reapers harvest organics to preserve them, why do they sometimes fail? ME2 implies (through EDI) that the Reapers failed to harvest the Protheans and build a Prothean Reaper, instead choosing to re-purpose their husked species for something else entirely.
Kinda dumb to try and 'preserve' organics from a supposed inevitable destruction via a method that doesn't even work.
littleworm
Member
I'm looking at the page and I'm still not seeing it. Perhaps I'm just blind or cant read.
Yes, but the catalyst only became aware of that because the crucible was completed and the organics found their way into the catalyst. Remember the crucible was being built under secrecy.
MiamiWesker
Member
I can't believe they were going to have TIM turn into an awesome Reaper final boss fight and they cut it. Instead the epic finale to this monstrous trilogy ends with.... Marauder Shields, what shit.
Why were the Protheans special?
SerArthurDayne
Member
David Caruso Fuck you .gif goes here.
They weren't. None of the cycles were special. I was countering the point that we somehow had advanced so far that we deserved the gift. We were probably less advanced than the Protheans, and if the Protheans had not altered the Keepers we lose before Mass Effect 1 even starts. There was nothing special about us. It was random chance. Starchild Vent Kid Casper could have just let Shepard die, reset the Keepers, and continued the cycle.
Reaper TIM would've been bad. I mean, Bioware can't design bosses for this kinda gameplay (see: Kai Leng; Reaper Baby; etc) and the whole concept is silly.
The confrontation/conversation at the end with him was fine.
I don't understand what your point is. What's common sense? I was just stating that the Reapers reap advanced organizations. However, there's no evidence that says that the Reapers advance themselves through creating new Reapers. I guess, in essence more Reapers equals more processing power.
Because synthesis doesn't just apply to the species receiving the gift -- Humans. It extends throughout the galaxy and affects everything. So it elevates all the "lower" species, too.
Well, since they turned off the Mass Relays in the case of the Protheans and managed to do it in 400, it should be no problem then.
It states specifically:
Here
Edit.
That is at least how i understood what he was saying there. That the reapers used the Citadel to control the relays and cut systems off.
Ditto, was glad I wasn't fighting super illusive man between conversation choices.
Also boss fights were the worst part of basically all of their games this generation (until this ending).
Loved 95% of ME2 until the terminator reaper.
Liked DA2 besides the reused assets until the lol ending and LOL boss fights.
littleworm
Member
Well, your right, sorry about that.
Psychoward
Banned
Mordin sings Krogan queen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHTKwsrs7WM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
MiamiWesker
Member
Nope, never. A game needs a final boss, especially the ending to the entire trilogy. Especially in a series where previous games had a final boss. It makes no sense. Focus on making that battle the best in the entire series. A conversation can take place after the boss fight.
I am not saying it had to be TIM, anything could have been the final boss. Just have one.
We did advance farther than any other cycle had. Do you think the Catalyst buttered Shepard up just to do it? Why would the Catalyst let Shepard make a choice such as the one he had if he didn't believe that his cycle was the one to do it?
Maybe the reapers thought "hey this whole conquering the galaxy without mass relays is too slow".
edit: the protheans cut off the mass relays controls from the citadel.
SerArthurDayne
Member
He doesn't really say that. To be honest the idea that the controlled the Mass Relays rings a bell, but it could easily be that they literally control them through military strength rather than shutting them down.
Lol! Never even thought about that. That's like the equivalent of finding a lost cache of Rafael paintings or something and then accidentaly blowing them up. Good job, preservationists.
But everyone worked together to receive it. One thing is elevate a whole species that have no idea how the things work, and other thing is to elevate everyone, but between the species there are some who acquired ultimate knowledge, who can guide the others.
They look a bit like the Prothean, minus the tentacles/legs.
SerArthurDayne
Member
We "advanced" through dumb luck. And why didn't the plan work anymore? Literally he could have just let Shepard die there and not done anything. They fix the Keepers and the next cycle goes off without a hitch. Problem Solved.
True. That is just how I and I assume many others understood it. Because as you see in ME3 if you don't shut down and control the relays i don't see how the reapers would of been able to stop any word leaking out or the other stuff he mentions.
You are right though he doesn't explicitly say that they shut them down.
SerArthurDayne
Member
Good night. I appreciate your arguing. I think you are completely wrong, but I like that you stick to your guns. I have an interest in criminal defense, and lets just say I want you on my jury if I am representing a client of questionable innocence.
What was dumb luck? The plan didn't work anymore because organics of this cycle showed the Catalyst something.
How did the Catalyst butter Shep? He was like who the hell are you? Why are you here? (Or wake up.) It wasn't impressed in any way. And your EMS score dictated the options you got. If you had a lower score you only had one option.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's like finding a lost cache of Rafael paintings and throwing them out into the middle of the ocean as a means of 'preserving' them because nobody will be able to steal or ruin them.
Agreed, but ME2 says the Protheans weren't successfully harvested. This, combined with the Keepers, seemed to be the whole idea behind the Reapers: successfully harvested species are adopted into Reaper form. If a species cannot be churned into a Reaper, it is re-purposed for something else.
So, like, the Reapers harvested the entire Prothean empire, which was the apex of galactic society, and failed to conserve any of them.
Good job Space Capser. Great plan.
MiamiWesker
Member
Isnt the crucible the reaper kill switch, once that is made the AI has no choice, the reapers are over. They didn't think anyone was more worthy of another, we simply finished the killswitch. Then the AI gave three different ways to activate it, three ways that maybe could prevent this super killer AI from happening and gave Shepard the choice.
I don't think he buttered Shep; I asked if you thought that was the case.
SerArthurDayne
Member
The Protheans saving our asses. Mass Effect 1 only takes place because the Keepers were broken. The Protheans almost completed the Crucible despite having lost the war on day 1. There is nothing special about what we did, we just got luck based on the previous cycle's work. Fix that problem and restore the cycles.
Again, I think this is irrelevant. I was simply arguing that space magic being some "gift" was bullshit, and even if it was a "gift" we certainly didn't do anything to earn it or that made us any different from any other organics.
Nope. It doesn't do anything until Starkid tells us what to do. And if you shoot bullets through his head for five or ten minutes the Reapers blow up the Crucible.
The only advantage that this cycle had was that the Protheans cut off the Mass Relays controls the Citadel had.
That's why the reapers don't shut down the mass relays, and why the reapers have to go through the conquest of the galaxy in a roundabout way, first sending Sovereign in a stealth mission to check wtf happened, and then they sent harbinger to create a reaper from the race that stopped Sovereign.
That's why the reapers don't shut down the mass relays, and why the reapers have to go through the conquest of the galaxy in a roundabout way, first sending Sovereign in a stealth mission to check wtf happened, and then they sent harbinger to create a reaper from the race that stopped Sovereign.
By finishing something that has been being worked on for multiple cycles this cycle was given that choice.
On what grounds did we advance further? The Protheans could read memories from matter and built a mass relay. And why would the Catalyst let Shepard do it indeed! That's the problem, what is the reason for letting this cycle do it versus others? Getting the Crucible built doesn't indicate anything because it was gifted to us from previous generations. And the space magic applies to everyone including people and races that aren't responsible at all. There is absolutely no reason to change things now. If you think there is you should be able to explain the child's reasonings. You can't just wave all this away because the child says so when the very notion we're challenging is that it's BS for him to say so!
MiamiWesker
Member
Right which gave us enough time to finish the crucible, leading to "victory".
Thinking about the keepers, Anderson did mention that the keepers most likely recovered a significant portion of Sovereign (at least the parts that Cerberus didn't get a hold of). Given how the Catalyst... Is the Citadel and Reapers at least have the technology to build new ones, I wonder why it just didn't attempt to rebuild Sovereign.
Or alternatively, to put some fuel in the indoctrination theory camp, the Catalyst is really just a revived Sovereign!
Or alternatively, to put some fuel in the indoctrination theory camp, the Catalyst is really just a revived Sovereign!
Well yes, the Protheans saved us yet each cycle I am sure helped out the one before it in some sense.
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