Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto

Wasn't games mostly running at 720p (with MSAA) + 480p known to be a consequence of the heavily stated rumor that the Wii U features slow main RAM but about 32MB of EDRAM? That such architecture would need 64MB in other to be a mostly 1080p machine, and that amount is not reasonable? We knew that since last year. It still doesn't say much about the power of the GPU.
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
This thread has been pretty tame with the power speculating. I think everyone agrees it will be noticeably better than ps3/360, but will be noticeably worse than 720/ps4. In absolute simple terms that is.
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I don't think it's going to be noticeably worse than the next Xbox or PS4. Hell, there are people today who can't see the difference between Mass Effect on the 360 and Mass Effect on a high spec PC. Honestly, I just want the things under the hood to be better (framerates especially). That kind of thing you can't tell from screenshots.

Also, it's possible that on paper the next machines will be 5x/6x the current generation, but I doubt most people would even notice a difference when all is said and done.
 
that was a nice 8 pages of catching up now that I am woke up at 10PM so spend another night of no news

I liked IdeaMan's tidbits

I wonder when we will hear about FINAL DevKits if they are out already or still months away
 
EDarkness said:
I don't think it's going to be noticeably worse than the next Xbox or PS4. Hell, there are people today who can't see the difference between Mass Effect on the 360 and Mass Effect on a high spec PC. Honestly, I just want the things under the hood to be better (framerates especially). That kind of thing you can't tell from screenshots.

Also, it's possible that on paper the next machines will be 5x/6x the current generation, but I doubt most people would even notice a difference when all is said and done.
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when I say noticeably I don't mean OMGWTF WOWW I mean like you're probably see some better textures and whatnot on a ps4 game. It's coming out a lot later so it's not ridiculous.
 
guek said:
Approximately 6,782,388 seconds until 9am on June 5!
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images
 
Everyone talks about GTA, but seeing the thread bumped to the main page made me think that Nintendo should get the re-unveiling of FFVsXIII at their conference if they want to screw with people.
 
Krev said:
Everyone talks about GTA, but seeing the thread bumped to the main page made me think that Nintendo should get the re-unveiling of FFVsXIII at their conference if they want to screw with people.
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It's one of my predictions. Nomura will be there on stage!
 
Krev said:
Everyone talks about GTA, but seeing the thread bumped to the main page made me think that Nintendo should get the re-unveiling of FFVsXIII at their conference if they want to screw with people.
Click to expand...

Hah!

GTAV
RE6
FFvsXIII
Bioshock Infinite

back to back announcements.

*sigh*

a man can dream...
:-(
 
IdeaMan said:
About the resolution of the games from which my second-hand knowledge come. This may precise a tad more the Wii U power, in a specific context, how third-parties handle the system. It’s related to everything I’ve said before.

The games concerned run ALL in 720p on the main screen. For now, from the mouths of my sources, it's not a console that looks to manage software with complex engines with such ease that their resolution might be 1080p, even at 30 fps. The 720p resolution is best suited for these titles to have a smooth framerate, in addition of the subscreen.

Now let’s talk about the context, which is as important as the information itself:

- Both games have an intensive use of the padlet. More concretely, 3D scenes, different angle of what is on the TV (bird eye view for example). The system is therefore capable of displaying a main screen of AT LEAST comparable quality than current gen versions in 720p (with I guess, a certain amount of AA, etc.) AND another 480p content on the tablet.
- The titles are ports that will be available on actual HD platforms, or more “exclusive” ones but build on inhouse engines already deployed in previous softs. They aren’t tailored from A to Z for the Wii U particularities. And everything is still in development, + dependent of the evolution of dev kits that are changing regularly (at least until now). So it can only improve, and the situation may be different for Nintendo and first-party titles.
- The dev kit involved are the V4 ones. The “V5” is a little more powerful, but apparently not to a point to push these games from 720p to 1080p.
- My sources added that the resolution is the one chosen for now, but a hypothetical other power boost that may occurring post V5 need to be important to allow the system to run these games properly in 1080p.
- These titles will change in the visual department as, like I said, some effects will be applied more in the “end” of the development, with perhaps graphical features not handled by current gen, thanks to the more modern Wii U GPU. So the end result on the main screen will be prettier than on PS360, with a higher resolution (many current gen content are not in true 720p) and especially in conjunction with a heavy use of the tablet. We might expect that games leaving it for simple things will be even more impressive on the TV.

From these informations, several speculations can be derived as:
- The possibility that games with simple engines, such as family titles, Mii-based ones, etc, will be in 1080p.
- Maybe other developers, with a simplistic use of the padlet + after all the optimizations and hardware boosts/tweaking until the dev kit finalization (if they are only moderate and not extensive to a point that it will change this situation completely), will release games in 1080p (with less AA than on 720p, less FPS, etc.), but it doesn’t seem possible at the moment, if they want their titles to reach a certain level of sophistication and quality in visuals on the TV + intricate use of the subscreen.
- I guess we can speculate further on the power and the amount of some components with this, such as memory / buffer, the GPU…

All these infos are related to my previous posts (it’s the same context) about the hardware power scale, the impressions of my sources, the tablet usage, the memory, the surprising amount of RAM occupation from the OS/Background (it will surely be better and therefore have a positive impact on the general performances, etc.).

Nothing revolutionary as I warned you, but it can help narrowing a little more the Wii U capacities in this particular context, what you can expect from third parties ports/not exclusive games (because having followed each page of these threads, I saw many gafers who are anticipating these titles to be the 1080p versions of their current gen counterparts, but for now, it’s not the case). This does not necessarily mean that the Wii U is underpowered EITHER: manage a visually ambitious game in a solid 720p & framerate, at the minimum a bit prettier than on Xbox 360 + an additional 480p screen with a complex scene rendered on it, is not a small thing.
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Great post. Wish it could run the most advanced Xbox 360 engines with more detail, 60 fps and 1080p and run 60 fps on the tablet with entirely different views etc. But again, just a wish :P
 
Krev said:
Everyone talks about GTA, but seeing the thread bumped to the main page made me think that Nintendo should get the re-unveiling of FFVsXIII at their conference if they want to screw with people.
Click to expand...

Or FFVII....*trailer plays*...Vs

I mean, if they want to really screw with folks.
 
In a situation like, the best thing Nintendo could would be to convince SE to downplay all other versions and always hype the Wii U version. But alas...
 
Krev said:
Everyone talks about GTA, but seeing the thread bumped to the main page made me think that Nintendo should get the re-unveiling of FFVsXIII at their conference if they want to screw with people.
Click to expand...

That would be in-credible. I'm thinking that getting that kind of megaton title would be bigger than getting the next GTA title.

If Nintendo were to get GTA title, it'd be notable for publicity reasons in that it would highlight that their consoles are indeed for all ages, but I don't think it would turn sentiment among western developers in the same way that a Final Fantasy headliner would set the tone in Japan.

I tend to think that becoming the go-to console for Japanese games, smaller developers' games, and Nintendo games would be a recipe for success.
 
Yeah, GTAV would be the best title to convince western devs that shit is real.

FFvsXIII is probably the best to do the same for japanese devs.

abstract alien said:
Or FFVII....*trailer plays*...Vs

I mean, if they want to really screw with folks.
Click to expand...

Dude, I don't give two shits about FFVII. I played that game a lifetime ago and have had no desire to go back to it. I have little nostalgia for the title.

But if I'm being honest, the most selfish game related wish I could make is a FFVII remake on a nintendo platform. The meltdowns...the tears...we would have enough shattered dreams to feast on for ten lifetimes.
 
fernoca said:
Haha..Reggie with the classic "Before we leave.."

The trailer plays..
Then at the end...
Final Fantasy Versus XIII
Final Fantasy V X
Final Fantasy X V
Final Fantasy XV
Holiday 2012


:p
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Versus XIII has to be called FFXV at this point. But holiday 2012? Now that's wishful thinking!

Bagu said:
In a situation like, the best thing Nintendo could would be to convince SE to downplay all other versions and always hype the Wii U version. But alas...
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They could pay for marketing.
HylianTom said:
That would be in-credible. I'm thinking that getting that kind of megaton title would be bigger than getting the next GTA title.

If Nintendo were to get GTA title, it'd be notable for publicity reasons in that it would highlight that their consoles are indeed for all ages, but I don't think it would turn sentiment among western developers in the same way that a Final Fantasy headliner would set the tone in Japan.

I tend to think that becoming the go-to console for Japanese games, smaller developers' games, and Nintendo games would be a recipe for success.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Plus, after (two!) Monster Hunter and (two!) Dragon Quest shocks, Nintendo seem more likely to throw the moneyhats around in Japan than in the west.
abstract alien said:
Or FFVII....*trailer plays*...Vs

I mean, if they want to really screw with folks.
Click to expand...
Exclusive!
Oh man, that would be hilarious. A new contender for longest GAF thread?
 
guek said:
Yeah, GTAV would be the best title to convince western devs that shit is real.

FFvsXIII is probably the best to do the same for japanese devs.



Dude, I don't give two shits about FFVII. I played that game a lifetime ago and have had no desire to go back to it. I have little nostalgia for the title.

But if I'm being honest, the most selfish game related wish I could make is a FFVII remake on a nintendo platform. The meltdowns...the tears...we would have enough shattered dreams to feast on for ten lifetimes.
Click to expand...

I don't care about either title, to be honest. I look at them more as strategic "gets."

And yeah.. the tears in your scenario would be delicious. I think I'd print some of the posts out and have them knitted onto doilies for my gaming room, hehehe..
 
abstract alien said:
So...the resolution is divided between the TV and the U-mote? Or its just currently not powerful enough to produce and 1080p + 480p signal?
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Not that the resolution is divided between both, but that it will depend on what they use that 480p screen for. If they use it for the exact same game on the TV, effects and everything it will be quite taxing.

But if it's just for a map or a HUD; then that leaves the rest for the main screen.

Of course that will depend on the developer like always, seeing how there are a few games this gen that run at 520p..in one screen. It will depend on what they sacrifice in favor of better effects, details, frame-rate, etc.

Krev said:
Versus XIII has to be called FFXV at this point. But holiday 2012? Now that's wishful thinking!
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Anth0ny said:
BAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
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Maximum damage! :p
 
Krev said:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Plus, after (two!) Monster Hunter and (two!) Dragon Quest shocks, Nintendo seem more likely to throw the moneyhats around in Japan than in the west.
Click to expand...

I also tend to think that Japanese developers would be more open to overtures from Nintendo. In contrast, my impression of many western devs is that if they've made their minds up about Nintendo, no amount of seduction or romancing will change their minds - they've gotta keep their street cred among the dudebro/mountaindew/pseudomaturemiddleschooler gamer crowd, and being seen in public with Nintendo is, like, "not cool," dude!
 
Bagu said:
How do you think it would compare to the FFXIII fiasco.
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Well the thing is both Sony and SE's fanbases have deteriorated substantially. If an exclusive FFVII HD remake on a nintendo platform had happened at the beginning of the generation, it would have been 100x worse than the FFXIII betrayalton.

As it stands, I think there would still be a bigger outcry than the FFXIII fiasco. If it were for 3DS, people would be running up and down the halls proclaiming hyperbole left and right, Vita is dead, nintendo moneyhatted the world, etc. etc. If it was for Wii U, I think people would be absolutely floored. Rendered speachless. Then the "b-b-b-but why??"s would start quietly and then build into a deafening roar that would last for months.
 
Bagu said:
How do you think it would compare to the FFXIII fiasco.
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It's hard to say, since console exclusives aren't taken for granted like they were in those days. Every third party game is expected to be multiplatform now, but back then it felt like the event was foreshadowing the end of Sony's console dominance. Their biggest trump card was gone.
On the other hand, the most requested PS3 game going to Nintendo after Square *promised* it with that tech demo would be a big deal.
HylianTom said:
I also tend to think that Japanese developers would be more open to overtures from Nintendo. In contrast, my impression of many western devs is that if they've made their minds up about Nintendo, no amount of seduction or romancing will change their minds - they've gotta keep their street cred among the dudebro/mountaindew/pseudomaturemiddleschooler gamer crowd, and being seen in public with Nintendo is, like, "not cool," dude!
Click to expand...
Didn't ShockingAlberto say that it looked like it would become a big part of the future strategy for a lot of Japanese developers, who plan to target 3DS/Vita/Wii U?
Wii U could become the Japanese gaming console of choice. I'm sure Nintendo see the potential, and the importance of securing this.
 
fernoca said:
Not that the resolution is divided between both, but that it will depend on what they use that 480p screen for. If they use it for the exact same game on the TV, effects and everything it will be quite taxing.

But if it's just for a map or a HUD; then that leaves the rest for the main screen.

Of course that will depend on the developer like always, seeing how there are a few games this gen that run at 520p..in one screen. It will depend on what they sacrifice in favor of better effects, details, frame-rate, etc.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. This, like most things, will probably be handled poorly by most devs. In any case...why would the screen be displaying an exact image of what's on screen anyway? Excusing some specialty game that called for it, there is no reason a tradition game would need to do such a thing. Not simultaneously, is what I'm saying.

Bagu said:
How do you think it would compare to the FFXIII fiasco.
Click to expand...

Imagine the flurry of threads stating, "FFVII Remake for Wii-U official!!!" before the trailer ends...
 
abstract alien said:
So...the resolution is divided between the TV and the U-mote? Or its just currently not powerful enough to produce and 1080p + 480p signal?
Click to expand...

We don't know if it will eventually be able to produce 1080p + 480p, but right now that doesn't seem likely without some sacrifices. It could do it, but something would have to give (texturing, effects, etc.). I imagine that Wii U Fit would be fine with 1080p + 480p, but Mass Effect 3 wouldn't be able to pull that off without losing some effects and such.

This could change as they get closer to final hardware. Even so, I don't think the system is any kind of slouch, because being able to do 720p + 480p and have all effects and such running is pretty impressive. That Zelda demo was awesome looking.
 
FFVII remake on the Wii U? Man, people would go insane. It would not be pretty. What would be funny is if FFXIII Vs was moved over to the Wii U. Oh man.... Wait...the craziest thing would be GTA V as a Wii U exclusive. The internet would implode at that point.
 
Krev said:
Didn't ShockingAlberto say that it looked like it would become a big part of the future strategy for a lot of Japanese developers, who plan to target 3DS/Vita/Wii U?
Wii U could become the Japanese gaming console of choice. I'm sure Nintendo see the potential, and the importance of securing this.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right. We briefly breached this topic some time ago.

(Caveat: if MS owns the west and Nintendo owns the east, it might put Sony in a bit of a pickle.)

I can see it happening though.. the divide already seems to be there in some manifestations: game design philosophy, portable-vs-console, genre preferences, software sales, etc.

We're entering an interesting new phase of gaming history where these trends might become even more apparent. Gonna be fascinating.
 
EDarkness said:
We don't know if it will eventually be able to produce 1080p + 480p, but right now that doesn't seem likely without some sacrifices. It could do it, but something would have to give (texturing, effects, etc.). I imagine that Wii U Fit would be fine with 1080p + 480p, but Mass Effect 3 wouldn't be able to pull that off without losing some effects and such.

This could change as they get closer to final hardware. Even so, I don't think the system is any kind of slouch, because being able to do 720p + 480p and have all effects and such running is pretty impressive. That Zelda demo was awesome looking.
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If that Zelda demo is actually able to be playable with that fidelity(including movement), then I wont really give a shit about what the system can't do lol
 
abstract alien said:
If that Zelda demo is actually able to be playable with that fidelity(including movement), then I wont really give a shit about what the system can't do lol
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The Zelda demo, the bird demo, Nintendo's artistic skills, bg/lherre/ideaman's inputs.. other than maybe third party issues, I can't see how someone would seriously fret over the system's power. Everythng'll be fine. I'm remarkably bouyant about what we're going to be treated to. =)
 
abstract alien said:
If that Zelda demo is actually able to be playable with that fidelity(including movement), then I wont really give a shit about what the system can't do lol
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Well, give the early nature of the hardware it was produced on, the speed it was produced at, the character models being updated Gamecube assets and the tendency for Zelda tech demos to be 'surpassed' in some ways by the retail software, I would be surprised if that level of visual fidelity couldn't be maintained at a bare minimum. Obvious difference will be animation/camera, which will not look that good in actual gameplay.

EDIT: Besides, I feel like the bird demo is a much more impressive tech demo, personally.
 
HylianTom said:
Sounds about right. We briefly breached this topic some time ago.

(Caveat: if MS owns the west and Nintendo owns the east, it might put Sony in a bit of a pickle.)

I can see it happening though.. the divide already seems to be there in some manifestations: game design philosophy, portable-vs-console, genre preferences, software sales, etc.

We're entering an interesting new phase of gaming history where these trends might become more apparent. Gonna be fascinating.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I see happening.

PS3, while doing moderately well in Japan, isn't the platform darling that japanese devs would like. Neither was the Wii in its heyday, frankly speaking. Wii U has a shot at changing that, especially if PS4 doesn't hit for awhile and nintendo gets as crazy aggressive as they've been with the 3DS.
 
HylianTom said:
Sounds about right. We briefly breached this topic some time ago.

(Caveat: if MS owns the west and Nintendo owns the east, it might put Sony in a bit of a pickle.)

I can see it happening though.. the divide already seems to be there in some manifestations: game design philosophy, portable-vs-console, genre preferences, software sales, etc.

We're entering an interesting new phase of gaming history where these trends might become even more apparent. Gonna be fascinating.
Click to expand...
Indeed.
As many have pointed out, Wii U's TV-less feature seems uniquely suited to Japanese gaming environments.
Also: Sony? In a pickle? What else is new?
Seriously, the writing's been on the wall for a while now. They're fumbling the Vita in the one market where it was expected to succeed.
 
abstract alien said:
Gotcha. This, like most things, will probably be handled poorly by most devs. In any case...why would the screen be displaying an exact image of what's on screen anyway? Excusing some specialty game that called for it, there is no reason a tradition game would need to do such a thing. Not simultaneously, is what I'm saying.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that will depend like always.
Many current gen games avoid adding local multiplayer, because of that.
For example, Chase Mii technically does it..up to 5 times : up to 4 players on the big screen and the 5th player on the tablet.

BCzls.png


wg193.jpg
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But as noted, "Mii-like games" won't have much problem reahcing 1080p, possibly because of the more simple visual style.

I guess this were Nintendo will do like they did with the Wii. Wii Sports-like games to show the multiplayer and the functions of the new controller, multiplayers, Miis, customization, etc. , and their Mairo, Zelda, etc. as the "big visuals" games with added functionality because of the controller.
 
burst said:
We will get trolled with a HD port of GTA 3, where you use the controller for the map
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no, they'll play a GTAV trailer but it'll end with an apple and an iOS logo. Reggie, miyamoto, and iwata will all look at each other in confusion and utter shock right before the crowd riots and burns that theater house down :-P
 
bgassassin said:
Sony most likely would have Europe.
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Shame on me for forgetting them! Nayru knows I've been seeing their ads around the sides of various soccer stadiums all day.

(funny thing: I watched an old Italian soccer game from 1998 yesterday, and there were Nintendo ads everywhere, including sprawled across the players' jerseys)
 
I just realized something that really sucks about the Wii-U not having a hard drive shipping in the box: no quality MMO's. Few developers are willing to make MMO's to such a limited audience or in a format that can't ever be updated - they are too expensive to make and run. I was hoping to play FFXIV version 2.0 with Wii-U's controller, but just realized it'll probably never happen :(
 
fernoca said:
Yeah, that will depend like always.
Many current gen games avoid adding local multiplayer, because of that.
For example, Chase Mii technically does it..up to 5 times : up to 4 players on the big screen and the 5th player on the tablet.

But as noted, "Mii-like games" won't have much problem reahcing 1080p, possibly because of the more simple visual style.

I guess this were Nintendo will do like they did with the Wii. Wii Sports-like games to show the multiplayer and the functions of the new controller, multiplayers, Miis, customization, etc. , and their Mairo, Zelda, etc. as the "big visuals" games with added functionality because of the controller.
Click to expand...

Nintendo is going to do such amazing things with this...
 
Dreamwriter said:
I just realized something that really sucks about the Wii-U not having a hard drive shipping in the box: no quality MMO's. Few developers are willing to make MMO's to such a limited audience or in a format that can't ever be updated - they are too expensive to make and run. I was hoping to play FFXIV version 2.0 with Wii-U's controller, but just realized it'll probably never happen :(
Click to expand...

DQX

it doesn't need a built in HD for MMOs. USB drives should be good enough it seems.
 
Dreamwriter said:
I just realized something that really sucks about the Wii-U not having a hard drive shipping in the box: no quality MMO's. Few developers are willing to make MMO's to such a limited audience or in a format that can't ever be updated - they are too expensive to make and run. I was hoping to play FFXIV version 2.0 with Wii-U's controller, but just realized it'll probably never happen :(
Click to expand...
I'd say there's a reasonable chance of it happening with Square's own DQX coming on the thing. The Wii beta works with a user supplied hard drive, so I don't see why FFXIV on Wii U couldn't.
 
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