Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto

Oh it's not about them being outspoken as well all know Nintendo likes their workers quiet and efficient. It's more that you never really get interviews or comments from Retro like you do from any of the calvary at NoJ among Miyamoto, Iwata, Sakurai and if we're on a lucky streak, Koizumi or Hayashida (sp?).

It's almost like Retro has no voice.

Kensuke Tanabe is the speaker for Retro Studios. He is the vice president of RetroStudios (as a NOJ overlord) and the Manager / Producer of Nintendo SPD Group 3 which technically produced and co-developed (planning and music) every Retro game thus far.

Also EAD producers and directors are still on a tight leash. It is mainly I think a protection thing sometimes. The more guys you make PR "famous", the more you have to worry about someone trying to lure them away. Every now and then you will see one of the new generation of producers and directors / staff on an Iwata's Ask. But that's about it. Miyamoto is still the company man willing to take all the credit :)
 
Do want, I really like those little marvels, I miss the days of custom chips like Gekko, Flipper.
Wii used a something like a custom CPU/GPU?
Looks that way. In fact, IBM said the CPU was an "all-new chip" based on IBM's "most advanced technologies": http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/34683.wss

I might be wrong, but I believe the Wii press releases were pretty short on hyperbole. Not so with Wii U.


But who said it was midrange?
The grapevine. I mean, a 4830 would've been considered "mid range" two years ago, no?
 
One thing that we forget is how actively MS/Sony seek, care third party relations, I say this at the light of Kojima comments, Nintendo have a lot to prove this gen, if they don't get support from the start they will repeat the Wii cycle again, if a specific developer is not sure about Wii U (read Kojima), I think it's Nintendos job try to convince to get it on board. Sony/MS didn't get this massive support by waiting third parties, they go after them all the time.

I say Iwata should call Kojima personally, a say "what's wrong with you"

If the shokingalberto thing is true, Konami pressured kojima to bring the ogre thing to wiiu, probably by Nintendp request so unless some ninja points a sword to kojima's neck theres little to do.
 
Retro's next game will be an open world, post-apocalyptic, survival-horror reboot of the Ice-Climber's franchise where Nana and Popo must beat radioactive seals to a bloody death with giant hammers.

killer_seal.jpg
 
Ok, Flipper time.

Flipper's TEV is a part of Flipper's 'classic' pixel pipeline, which, as wsippel noted, used to end with a ROP unit (and thus, 4 pipelines = 4 ROPs), but nowadays this rule is no more, i.e. the logical unit referred to as ROP is not 1:1 matched versus 'pipelines', mainly because 'pipelines' are lost as such. Some modern architectures don't even have dedicated ROP logic per se, e.g. NV's since G80 (IIRC) where the shader units have read access to the fb (technically, to an fb cache), so the ROP functionality is done via shader ops. Back to TEV, though. TEV is a very sophisticated 'texture combiner' unit - a unit that takes inputs from multiple textures (and interpolants from the rasterizer) and does blending operations between those, in a cascaded (sometimes looped-back) manner. TEV was tex combiner's 'swan song' - the 'missing link' between texture combiners and the early pixel shader hw (which pretty much was tex combiners on steroids) - the differences between TEV's blending stages and PS1.1-1.4 op slots are really not that big. Actually, in some aspects TEV can do more than those early PS units, i.e. TEV's 16 stages, every other of which can do a dependent texture read (aka EMBM read), versus PS 1.4's 8 + 8 (via loop-back) op stages, but only 6 tex addr registers.

So, the difference between a TMU and a TEV is that, well, they are orthogonal units. A modern-day TMU does:

(1) tex addressing computations, i.e. strq->uv0..n (not necessarily though - some architectures use shader ops for that)
(2) tex filtering (using the tex caches as raw input)

so the output from a TMU is a filtered texture sample, ready to be fed to the shader code. OTOH, TEV pretty much does the equivalent of shader code - for (1) and (2) Flipper has its dedicated logic (i.e. TF and TC blocks). So in essence, TEV is not a TMU - TEV is more akin to a shader unit. As whether TEV can do 4 pixels at a time, or there are 4x TEVs - it's really semantics.

So I guess you see now why adding a TEV to a modern shader architecture does not make much sense. For a current (read: unified shader architecture) GPU to successfully emulate Flipper, fat dependent texture read limits and fat low-latency texture caches are needed, not TEVs. IOW, adding Flipper's 1MB of tex cache and Flipper's TF and/or TC logic would contribute more to Flipper emulation than TEV.
Interesting. So are you saving all TEV effects can be emulated with 100% accuracy on modern shaders within the same "penalties" (doing everything in one texture pass)?
 
Your evasiveness notwithstanding, I'd like to see the numbers you base your assessment on.

Quick tip: Industry Revenue being up doesn't mean the 360 is the second most profitable home console ever.

I'm willing to believe you, but you have to provide proof to back up your claim. Telling me to search for it myself is like telling me to wave your own hand over your ass after you fart in an elevator.

Also, unless I'm mistaken, despite MS's recent gains in the last few years, they still incurred a $3-$4billion loss in the first 2 years of the 360, meaning it would have had to set industry records for the remaining 4 years up to now in order to beat the PS2 or the N64 or what have you. Nintendo was pulling down billion dollar annuals in the mid nineties, and that's before inflation jacked up the dollar amounts in recent times.

For what it's worth, I have a spreadsheet (OpenDocument Format) (Google Docs) where I took a quick grab from each quarterly earnings (operating income, in this particular case) report from the game divisions of the Big Three starting with the introductory quarter of each company's current home console. Embedded in each cell is the direct link to their actual report which gives that quarter's information. Here's Microsoft's information:

In the first six years of the Xbox 360's life, Microsoft's "Entertainment and Devices Division" posted total losses of $31,000,000. After the past holiday quarter, the Xbox 360's division's overall profit is $497,000,000.

Keep in mind the following modifiers:
* The number does not include what are likely massive R&D costs
* The number include profits and losses for devices other than the Xbox 360, such as the Zune.
* I'm pretty bad at collating data and likely shifted a decimal point here and there, making this data incredibly invalid. Please report my mistakes. :)

Anyway.... that's not a lot of profit. The Xbox 360 could end up as the second most profitable home console of all time. But it would likely still be an uphill struggle. Keep in mind that after the PS3 came out, the PS2 continued to sell for ... well, it's still selling. And that's unprecedented. Could the 360 continue selling for over half a decade after the Xbox Gamma comes out? Sure, but it's far from a guarantee, and it certainly wouldn't continue to sell in all territories.
 
Or, at least something senseble like F-ZERO or Star Fox, or even, heaven forbid, Metroid.

I'll never understand why someone would think its sensible for Retro (known for making gorgeous landscapes for the player to explore) to make an on-rails game (Starfox/F Zero). Its such a waste of their specific talents.
 
One thing that we forget is how actively MS/Sony seek, care third party relations, I say this at the light of Kojima comments, Nintendo have a lot to prove this gen, if they don't get support from the start they will repeat the Wii cycle again, if a specific developer is not sure about Wii U (read Kojima), I think it's Nintendos job try to convince to get it on board. Sony/MS didn't get this massive support by waiting third parties, they go after them all the time.

I say Iwata should call Kojima personally, a say "what's wrong with you"

What's strange is that Nintendo seems to have a really good relationship with developers when it comes to their handhelds. They've clearly sought out support for the 3DS and they've seemingly landed everything that they could possibly want. Things shouldn't be so different with the Wii U. They should be every bit as aggressive when it comes to the Wii U.

The last thing they need is to have major developers saying things like this. That's what makes some people worried about Nintendo consoles. They need to be actively pursuing developers like KojiPro and CD to make sure that they have their full support. There's no reason for them not to support the system in the same way that they've supported other platforms.
 
Tell me something I don't know.

I won free pizza for a month from Papa John's a year and a half ago, but couldn't eat all of it, so I tried to donate it to a rape crisis center but they denied it because they didn't want a pizza man to deliver it. So I donated it to a homeless shelter.

Sometimes it's hard to be a good person in this world.
 
Because Anthony was awesome?

Yeah, as bad as the story was, I actually really liked Anthony. In fact he was the only Federation Trooper in the game I cared to root for.
And I was really happy to learn at the end that he survived...uh, using a cushion of frozen air to somehow stay awkwardly suspended above one of the lava golems during the entire Ridley battle notwithstanding. "Yo, Samus! Congrats on killing Deep Purple, now help get me outta here!"

GAF doesn't know how to treat a lady.

GAF = Adam Malkovich?
 
I just went to the B3D messageboards and a long time poster wanted me to tell you maniacs that:

"Retro is definitely not working a next-gen DK. They are aggressively targeting the XBOX/PS3 demographic."

Get it together you freaking maniacs. :P
Nice. If Nintendo is serious about getting the 'hardcore' gamers on board, then a mature title from Retro would be the best move. I hope Nintendo let them create a new IP; they've more than earned it.
 
But if Retro is actually "aggressively targeting the XBOX/PS3 demographic", that audience won't give a fuck about Wii U in 2015 if it still has "shitty" 360/PS3 level graphics.

No idea what Retro is doing but if it's Zelda, I personally don't feel targeting groups like that is a smart nor genuine idea.

It's contrived and very well could lose its charm, a trait the series has always had in spades.

There are other games that can suit those audiences but I don't think selling out is going to work in the end.
 
please answer this question

Another thing, are we expecting eDRAM/EDRAM to be used on both the IBM CPU *and* the AMD GPU?

Or one separate pool of it, for both to access?

GAF, I am dying to know the answer to this question and your thoughts.
 
Nice. If Nintendo is serious about getting the 'hardcore' gamers on board, then a mature title from Retro would be the best move. I hope Nintendo let them create a new IP; they've more than earned it.

Yup! Either a new franchise, or a so-old-it-might-as-well-be-new franchise. With eithernpath, Retro would be able to create the IP with their own tastes.
 
Best thing Retro could do is revive Mach Rider.

Because they can essentially do whatever the hell they want to with it considering the original is just Hang-on with shooting.

Make it some kind of Hokuto no Ken meets Full Throttle action/adventure game.
 
I could have sworn I read that somewhere in this thread.

You did read it in this thread somewhere, but if you are having a hard time looking for a rumor, you can always refer to the rumor list.

(p.s. it's in the OP, but I will just link you to it since I have it open; http://tinyurl.com/Rumor2012)

and speaking of the rumor list...
is there anything that has happened in the last... 24hours or so that would be rumor list worthy? I've skimmed the thread, but wasn't sure if maybe I had missed something.
 
If (a big if here folks) Donkey Kong is out of the equation, then I would put my money on Retro developing a new FPS I.P.
 
If (a big if here folks) Donkey Kong is out of the equation, then I would put my money on Retro developing a new FPS I.P.

Well a Donkey Kong game wouldn't be targeting the "hardcore gamer" or whatever.

But then again, a "hardcore" gaming media outlet is currently running an exclusive event on an E-rated Musical Mickey Mouse game, so far be it from me to pin down the amorphous and nebulous definition of "hardcore gamer" once and for all.
 
If (a big if here folks) Donkey Kong is out of the equation, then I would put my money on Retro developing a new FPS I.P.

It'd have to be a new take on the genre as from seeing past comments from the team, they don't seem to want any part of doing something expected or cliche or overdone.

I'd be very surprised if they did a FPS unless it was another Metroid one and then it'd be a FPA!!!!!!!!!!
 
Maybe targeting the "XBOX/PS3 demographic" means that Samus is going to get much more zero suit action :P

But I seriously hope that they are working on a new IP. Nintendo has an amazing western studio and they haven't been given an opportunity to create their own unique franchise. They need to stop being so retro!
 
I don't like the phrase "targeting the Xbox/PS3 demographic." It makes me think "Generic FPS," and that's the last thing I want Retro wasting their talent on...

That's exactly what I thought when I read it, too.
 
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