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[Plinko]

The lunacy happening in this thread right now on both sides is amazing.

 

[Glorified G]

then dooooooooooooooo itttttttttttttttttttttt

have you seen the tech demo? seriously, yes or no? Do you understand why it's better than what we currently have in the ways that it is?

Besides the lighting, what was so impressive about the demo compared to the current generation?

 

[Ramsiege]

If a launch Wii-U game looks like a late in the generation X360 game, it's obviously going to be able to push much more later on in it's life cycle. This isn't the max the Wii-U can do, it's only the beginning. Once you get developers actually creating games from the ground up on Wii-U and actually using the system to it's full potential, I think you're going to see much more differentiation between the HD twins and the Wii-U.

Just my two cents...

 

[cyberheater]

Stop lying man, just for once stop feigning ignorance and making things up to suit your needs. Ideaman said WiiU was producing games that were "a bit prettier at minimum" than their 360/PS3 versions AND rendering a second complex 3D scene on the controller.

How am I trolling. I just stating what the gaming director of a major WiiU launch game is saying.

If you're upset because I keep reiterating that the WiiU is not going to be much more powerful then PS360 then it's hardly my fault.

Have you heard any definitive statements from any other dev that states otherwise?

 

[DragonSworne]

Watch Xbox720 be less graphically capable than people expect because it will need to power the Kinect 2.0.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii U and Xbox 720 are similar in graphical power.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

How am I trolling. I just stating what the gaming director of a major WiiU launch game is saying.

If you're upset because I keep reiterating that the WiiU is not going to be much more powerful then PS360 then it's hardly my fault.

Have you heard any definitive statements from any other dev that states otherwise?

The technical director at Vigil claimed it was more powerful than the current gen(using the words "more powerful"), it is a far more informative quote than the one you are basing your theory on.

Watch Xbox720 be less graphically capable than people expect because it will need to power the Kinect 2.0.

Haven't MS announced a change in processor for the Kinect, I assume the next version will still have one built in.

 

[HylianTom]

I don't play games and think "Hmmmm, the leaves on the tree would look better on a different system".

We have great technical visuals already, there is a ceiling for me when improvement in that regard ends or isn't important anymore.

The only issue for me with silly specs is whether it will cost Nintendo getting a lot of future games from developers and while that could be true for many reasons, it doesn't seem that's clear.

That's a legitimate concern, nitpicking on great visuals versus greater visuals is not.........to me.

THANK YOU.

The thing is, I truly do think that we're going to see this behaviour among "journalists."

And then developers/publishers are going to engage in this same thought process. I already have a certain lack of esteem for many of these.. persons, but the idea of some vapid prick looking at a specs sheet or side-by-side speculative bullshots, saying, "Hmm.. the leaves on System 1 aren't nice enough to meet our artistic vision. And look at the cross section of that twig.. I don't see xylem and phloem individually.. it looks like it's all cellulose - hideous. System 1 is a no-go."

Suffice to say, I tend to think that most power-based arguments aren't going to look good when held-up to scrutiny. We've all seen the bird demo, the Zelda demo.. the idea that a game isn't scalable would reek of bullshit.

 

[Christine]

Did anything happen while I was asleep?

Quickly, quickly--time may be of the essence.

 

[VAPitts]

It seems that your arguments are quiet mixed, honestly.
You said: PS360 = Wii U.
Than we said: to manage the Upad double visualization especially for particular use of the Upad, you need a more powerful device, to keep the same graphic quality on the TV screen
And now you say: it doens't matter if IT IS more powerful, because on TV screen the result will be the same of PS360 Darksiders.

Well, in my opinion, due to the fact that I don't think that Wii U will be leader in terms of graphics compared to PS4 and Xbox3, because Nintendo IS NOT the leader in terms of power graphics, it's quiet normal that a late port of a ps360 game will be similar to the WiiU version, honsetly.

This doesn't imply that WiiU is a PS360.

yeah i don't even know, huh?

 

[Donnie]

How am I trolling. I just stating what the gaming director of a major WiiU launch game is saying.

If you're upset because I keep reiterating that the WiiU is not going to be much more powerful then PS360 then it's hardly my fault.

Have you heard any definitive statements from any other dev that states otherwise?

Now you're feigning ignorance again. Go back and read your post, this is about what you said about Ideaman's info about WiiU. Something I made completely clear in the post you've responded to.

 

[cyberheater]

The technical director at Vigil claimed it was more powerful than the current gen(using the words "more powerful"), it is a far more informative quote than the one you are basing your theory on.

If you have a game that looks exactly the same as a PS360 game running on the screen and you're also powering the padlet with meaningful data. By definition the system is more powerful. But I was hoping for a lot more.

 

[Donnie]

Besides the lighting, what was so impressive about the demo compared to the current generation?

It was being rendered twice.

 

[cyberheater]

Now you're feigning ignorance again. Go back and read your post, this is about what you said about Ideaman. Again stop lying.

Maybe this thread should be split off and there should be a WiiU speculation of technical performance thread and all this stuff could go in there and this thread could be left for discussion of possible games and the uses of the padlet etc...

 

[jump_button]

Please.....just stop.

As things are right now they both in same group

By tha I'm saying we don't know shit and the both out within a year of the other

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

If you have a game that looks exactly the same as a PS360 game running on the screen and you're also powering the padlet with meaningful data. By definition the system is more powerful. But I was hoping for a lot more.

So why do you keep saying it isn't?

As things are right now they both in same group

Too much confusion on what the next Xbox will be to claim that, the only sensible thing we can say is that the Wii U will be the most powerful console on the market when it launches.

 

[KageMaru]

As things are right now they both in same group

And how do you figure that exactly?

 

[Donnie]

Maybe this thread should be split off and there should be a WiiU speculation of technical performance thread and all this stuff could go in there and this thread could be left for discussion of possible games and the uses of the padlet etc...

What relevance does that have to the discussion? Surely it would be much easier to admit you were totally wrong on what Ideaman said. I mean this is the absolute farthest I've ever seen someone go to avoid simply saying "I was wrong".

 

[Christine]

If you have a game that looks exactly the same as a PS360 game running on the screen and you're also powering the padlet with meaningful data. By definition the system is more powerful. But I was hoping for a lot more.

I don't know that it qualifies as a "lot more", but it is important to note that IdeaMan never said that games would look exactly the same as PS360. He was using the comparison as a minimum lower bound, a floor.

 

[cyberheater]

What relevance does that have to the discussion? Dear me this is the absolute farthest I've ever seen someone go to avoid simply saying "I was wrong".

So. Forgetting the performance requirements to render rich information to the padlet. Do you think that WiiU is going to be much more powerful then PS360? Do you think you'll see multiplatform games that run at 30fps and 720p being run at 1080p at 30 or even 60fps on WiiU?
Answer honestly.

 

[jump_button]

And how do you figure that exactly?

Both will be (PC in a Box) less then £300 and out within a year of the other, so the both should be alike when devs try make games for them both

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Making definitive statements at this point even before E3 just sort of makes it look like you have an agenda.

This applies to both sides of this argument.

 

[Glorified G]

Both will be (PC in a Box) less then £300 and out within a year of the other, so the both should be alike when devs try make games for them both

So what are the lotto numbers for next week?

 

[darthdago]

So. Forgetting the performance requirements to render rich information to the padlet. Do you think that WiiU is going to be much more powerful then PS360? Do you think you'll see multiplatform games that run at 30fps and 720p being run at 1080p at 30 or even 60fps on WiiU?
Answer honestly.

If you forget about the padlet and only display on mainscreen, then yes...

*believe*

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

So. Forgetting the performance requirements to render rich information to the padlet. Do you think that WiiU is going to be much more powerful then PS360? Do you think you'll see multiplatform games that run at 30fps and 720p being run at 1080p at 30 or even 60fps on WiiU?
Answer honestly.

Depends on who the developer is, most will do the bare minimum but some will use the extra power ( & obviously certain 1st party SW will look significantly better).

 

[NeoGohan]

So. Forgetting the performance requirements to render rich information to the padlet. Do you think that WiiU is going to be much more powerful then PS360? Do you think you'll see multiplatform games that run at 30fps and 720p being run at 1080p at 30 or even 60fps on WiiU?
Answer honestly.

PS360 <30fps/560p
WiiU =>30fps/720p

 

[darthdago]

PS360 <30fps/560p
WiiU =>30fps/720p

exactly

 

[Glorified G]

PS360 <30fps/560p
WiiU =>30fps/720p

Except majority of PS/360 games DID render on 720p
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

 

[Christine]

PS360 <30fps/560p

This seems to be more of a talking point than anything substantiated by fact.

 

[Shiggy]

If you have a game that looks exactly the same as a PS360 game running on the screen and you're also powering the padlet with meaningful data. By definition the system is more powerful. But I was hoping for a lot more.

wsippel said that WiiU games will look noticeably better, he usually has some insights. Based on what we've seen and heard, I'm just as sceptical as you.

I think it would be embarrassing if they stick with a console that basically outputs the same graphics capability as the 360 and ps3.

Then you will be disappointed as that's what the WiiU basically does.

Except we already know that's not the case.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36284593&postcount=7843

 

[Donnie]

So. Forgetting the performance requirements to render rich information to the padlet. Do you think that WiiU is going to be much more powerful then PS360? Do you think you'll see multiplatform games that run at 30fps and 720p being run at 1080p at 30 or even 60fps on WiiU?
Answer honestly.

I think it'll be able to produce games that have improved textures and lighting/shadows over the 360/PS3 versions (nothing dramatic, but noticable) while also producing complex scenes on the controller. If the controller isn't used for a complex scene it'll also be capable of higher poly models and a higher resolution or AA.

I'm not sure it will have enough extra pixel fillrate to do the best looking 720p 30fps 360/PS3 game at 1080p 30fps. Because that requires 2.5 times as many pixels AFAIR and I'd expect it to have 16 rops (360/PS3 have 8). Basically I'm expecting twice the pixel fillrate (ROPS), something like 3 times the shader performance and 3 times the RAM.

Much more powerful?, again its subjective but I probably wouldn't say that, noticably more powerful, yes, on par? certainly not.

 

[darthdago]

Except majority of PS/360 games DID render on 720p
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46241

That list is accurate?

 

[DCharlie]

We have great technical visuals already, there is a ceiling for me when improvement in that regard ends or isn't important anymore

and what is that ceilng? Can you define exactly at what point that tip point where you don't care any more comes?

 

[jump_button]

Wish Big N where not so good at keeping thing from leaking out bloody ninjas

 

[Glorified G]

That list is accurate?

considering the op asks

Notice: devs, please correct when possible.

& beyond3d is well known to have developers than yes.

Would you be asking this if I gave you a list of games rendering at 540p?

 

[GameplayWhore]

Here's my chime-in: Going by the standard useless-for-straight-comparisons unit of measure (TFLOPS in the GPU, brutha!), I'm going to flat out predict* that the Xboxium will be less than 3x the Wii U, and I personally hedge towards a guess that it will be less than 2x the Wii U in this capability.

I vaguely recall a rumour from about two months ago suggesting that the Wii U is expected to have an overall performance level of 1TFLOPS. This might have been from a suggestion/hint** that the Wii U might be targeted to handle the Samaritan Demo at 720p, and that's 1.11&#8230; TFLOPS. It's not too out of the crazy realm to think that Epic pushed Nintendo just enough to reach this point and that they are pushing Microsoft to get to full Samaritan Demo spec (2.5 TFLOPS, enough to run the same content at 1080p) for the Xboxatron.

In such a scenario, it would not be too terrible to downport to the Wii U. It would probably be no worse (easier, I'd imagine) than downporting from the Xbox to the Playstation 2.

However, as long as the Xbox 360 or the Playstation 3 exists, it remains pretty likely that Wii U ports will come from them even after the Mega Xbox is released. Nintendo would get far more multiplats than in this current generation, but the image quality would be much closer to the slower systems than the faster systems, because it's easier to take a build from a slower machine, recompile, and not test anything (or slightly up-rez it) than it is to take a build from a faster machine, recompile, test it, reduce the resolution, test it, reduce the texture resolution, test it, reduce the poly count, and so on. So we may end up with a situation similar to the Gamecube's, where the performance was potentially within the ball field of the Xbox's, but the multiplats often carried over in quality from the PS2.


This post has no useful content. But this is a speculation thread, not a facts thread.




* I trust this looks like a bleeding edge, banworthy prediction, eh.
** It also might have been from bollocks.

 

[cyberheater]

I think it'll be able to produce games that have improved textures and lighting/shadows over the 360/PS3 versions (nothing dramatic, but noticable) while also producing complex scenes on the controller. If the controller isn't used for a complex scene it'll also be capable of higher poly models and a higher resolution or AA.

I'm not sure it will have enough extra pixel fillrate to do the best looking 720p 30fps 360/PS3 game at 1080p 30fps. Because that requires 2.5 times as many pixels AFAIR and I'd expect it to have 16 rops (360/PS3 have 8). Basically I'm expecting twice the pixel fillrate (ROPS), something like 3 times the shader performance and 3 times the RAM.

Much more powerful?, again its subjective but I probably wouldn't say that, noticably more powerful, yes, on par? certainly not.

Okay. That's fair enough. I really hope you're right. But I don't believe that is going to be the case. My opinion is that while delivering good visuals on the padlet, we'll see graphics that look on par with PS360. I don't expect to see much in the way of added visual fidelity.
Maybe better textures because of the increase in memory but apart from that, they will look the same.

 

[lednerg]

I haven't kept up with PS4 rumors, but has anything concrete come out that refutes this stance:

James Armstrong, Sony Europe VP - "I don't believe we are going to have a console with much better graphics than the ones the PS3 offers now. I think the future will be in offering the best and most accessible experiences to consumers. The target will be to expand the gaming population and to try to design games for women."

Again, I'm just asking because I don't know. I keep hearing that PS4 will be a brute force machine rivaling the best PC tech as if that's an undeniable fact. This seems strange to me, seeing as how they've only done that this past generation - and it was mainly so they could make the jump from SD to HD. What is giving people the impression that Sony would opt to make another jump in power like that? Sounds more like the conversation is being steered by power-starved technophiles than fun-loving gamers.

 

[ReyVGM]

Okay. Serious question. Do you think that Darksiders 2 on WiiU will look better then the versions on PS360?

No, but not because of lack of power, but because devs don't really put extra effort on ports (unless it's a special occasion).

 

[Gleethor]

Whatever the specs end up being, I think that many of Nintendo's first party efforts on Wii U will be a noticeable step up from current gen.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Whatever the specs end up being, I think that many of Nintendo's first party efforts on Wii U will be a noticeable step up from current gen.

I don't have an HDTV, so D:

On a more positive note, my bathroom is within about ten feet of where my TV is, so

 

[IdeaMan]

Happy to see that some gafers were defending the legitimacy of my information in my absence in answer to a doubtful post, i'm tired of doing it

Oh, and for the teasing part, i've already talked about that, it's just a way to spice up the thread while waiting for E3. And when i announce in advance that i'll say something, it's simply to avoid writing a 1 line message drowned in the middle of the 50th discussion about Retro (not criticizing this, as i love to participate, it's just that when people have some news that can nurture the speculation, it's better to emphasize them).

Expect a tiny bit of info (not a wall of text this time, maybe 2 or 3 sentences) regarding the dev kits, soon

By the way, these last pages are frightening, just calm down please. For the Vigil comment, a lot of gafers explained how someone from their studio can do such a statement. Read again my post concerning the resolution of third-parties "ports" in a specific situation, it will give also more hindsight about that.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Okay. That's fair enough. I really hope you're right. But I don't believe that is going to be the case. My opinion is that while delivering good visuals on the padlet, we'll see graphics that look on par with PS360. I don't expect to see much in the way of added visual fidelity.
Maybe better textures because of the increase in memory but apart from that, they will look the same.

What you've said here, isn't that disagreeable.

Its going to depend entirely on how people use the machine, of course. Even if its old compared to whatever goes in 720/PS4, the Wii-U GPU will still be more modern than anything that's in the PS360, so there are bound to be inherent visual bonuses - we know it has a good chunk more RAM (how much more is unclear), and I'm betting the processor setup will be cleverly architected to get the best out of the dual screen setup too. If its coming in nearer 1TFlop, then it will be indisputedly more powerful -- it just might not be quite so evident if you're synching and encoding a separate video transfer to a tablet while computing and outputting more than one 3D viewpoint. What will be really interesting to see is what games look like when they make minimal use of the tablet screen -- a 2D menu is going to take very little effort to maintain.

The gap between this and what is possible on current high-end PCs and potentially the next generation of PlayStation and Xbox (providing they can actually make such choices economically, which remains to be seen) - is going to be interesting. It'll be interesting to see how the vast gaming public percieves that and whether that gap is significant enough. We should always try and keep perspective and remember that an awful lot of people out there are still buying souped up Gamecubes!

While Epic might be seen as an important 800 lb Gorilla, and they are - their engines are important -- Nintendo are some kind of giant talking Jesus-Lion or something. They got their hardware strategy spot-on with the Wii, and made serious bank for 4/5 years that a lot of publishers missed out on. Publishers will not be oblivious to that.

I'm expecting some ports will look like very smooth running PS3 up-ports, and that's because that's what they will be. Others might look better where any special effort is put in. I'm not expecting miracles or anything, but I do think a game like Skyrim, which was clearly not as beautiful as the PC game was (on Xbox 360/PS3) would be less sacrificed on newer hardware released this year.

Nintendo's first and third party exclusives at E3, and games that do (and do not) use the tablet extensively should be the real litmus test. Those are what will sell the system at first.

 

[capslock]

Expect a tiny bit of info (not a wall of text this time, maybe 2 or 3 sentences) regarding the dev kits, soon

Hey man, if you know shit, why don't you just say it, instead of this bs teasing?

It's stuff like this that makes people doubt you.

 

[ReyVGM]

Hey man, if you know shit, why don't you just say it, instead of this bs teasing?

It's stuff like this that makes people doubt you.

Because he needs time to think and write his fake info so people like you get the proof they need to doubt him.

 

[Aostia]

By the way, these last pages are frightening, just calm down please. For the Vigil comment, a lot of gafers explained how someone from their studio can do such a statement. Read again my post concerning the resolution of third-parties "ports" in a specific situation, it will give also more hindsight about that.

that's exaclty what I was thinking of when I stated this

Well, in my opinion, it's quiet normal that a late port of a ps360 game will be similar to the WiiU version, honsetly.

This doesn't imply that WiiU is a PS360.

 

[capslock]

Because he needs time to think and write his fake info so people like you get the proof they need to doubt him.

Snark aside, why not just tell us what he knows?

 

[IdeaMan]

Hey man, if you know shit, why don't you just say it, instead of this bs teasing?

It's stuff like this that makes people doubt you.

Because i like to monitor hypothetical discussion that can occur after my post, and right now, i don't have the time to do it. It's time-consuming to just catch-up (since thread 3) and read all the pages to be sure that eventual new infos haven't already been given

And it would be a waste to say it now, in the middle of a heated discussion regarding the Wii U power because of the Vigil statement. So i just warn in advance. And it's fun to tease as i explained, during this long wait until E3. It could be irritating if i made these announcements then disappear for days, but no, i'm here and i post the message in the end, so it's in a controlled fashion. If it build some anticipation amongst some, then i'm satisfied

 

[Nibel]

Wii U won't be the most powerful of them and it doesn't need to be - but it will be the right choice for strong people.

 

[ReyVGM]

Lemme post this again:

A 720p Wii U game with better shaders, better lighting, more effects and more polygons is going to look way better than a Xbox360/PS3 game in the same 720p resolution.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I haven't kept up with PS4 rumors, but has anything concrete come out that refutes this stance:

James Armstrong, Sony Europe VP - "I don't believe we are going to have a console with much better graphics than the ones the PS3 offers now. I think the future will be in offering the best and most accessible experiences to consumers. The target will be to expand the gaming population and to try to design games for women."

Again, I'm just asking because I don't know. I keep hearing that PS4 will be a brute force machine rivaling the best PC tech as if that's an undeniable fact. This seems strange to me, seeing as how they've only done that this past generation - and it was mainly so they could make the jump from SD to HD. What is giving people the impression that Sony would opt to make another jump in power like that? Sounds more like the conversation is being steered by power-starved technophiles than fun-loving gamers.

Nothing Sony has said has gone against that, it's just fanboys making assumptions based on 1 console generation.