The realities of being a black male in America.

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No, it really isn't. It's not about you at all. This whole topic is about how other people perceive/treat you.

In this context, it is perfectly clear what the question means. So no, you are incorrect.

Until you change yourself, others won't. If you see race, they will to. So no, I am correct.

Are you a minority in any socially or historically meaningful way? Please don't pretend that you can't understand the difference between eye color and skin color.

It's beyond my mental capacity to envision any other world then supreme ruler of the grand race.

And of course I do. But I don't group myself with either and pretend I'm better because of it.

Well no, but being black and assuming that every time something acts 'shifty' around you is because you're black doesn't make sense either. But it looks like people in this thread have already said that skin colour is the only factor so I guess I'll just leave it and admit I'm ignorant about it all.

Not that it doesn't occur, because shit happens all the time because people look different/are different/smell different/act different, but when you already have a preconceived notion that if something bad happens, it will be happen because of X, then well, it will in their minds.
 
This is an act of the ignorant, not the hateful. I don't see why anyone should get so worked about something like, "Ooooh! Your hair is so exotic!" Yes, it's uncultured and unworldly. But, you know what, so are a lot of Americans. Who, by the way, can do much worse as we both know too well.

Of course you don't know why anybody would get worked up about something like that.

It does not happen to you like it does to me.
 
Depends on what I'm doing and what you are referring to.

My eye color isn't the majority, so my eye color is in the minority. Um, I'm skinny, so in America I would be in the minority with weight. Hmmm what else can I needlessly say about myself to group myself in with others....

lol really?

You knew exactly what he meant. Who uses "minority" to talk about body size or eye color?
 
Until you change yourself, others won't. If you see race, they will to. So no, I am correct.

Do you realize how dumb this sounds?

People judge on looks all of the time. It doesn't matter how you see yourself if you never have any interaction with the person judging you.

Actually.

If you see race, they will to.
Try proving this. That this happens in every case. Since I'm sure you're not saying it because you're naive or anything.
 
Until you change yourself, others won't. If you see race, they will to. So no, I am correct.



It's beyond my mental capacity to envision any other world then supreme ruler of the grand race.

And of course I do. But I don't group myself with either and pretend I'm better because of it.

So basically other people judge me based on my race because I perceive race? You are spewing some really stupid drivel man.
 
How do I even reply to this? Kids everywhere wear hoodies, frequently with the hoods up, and especially so in the rain seeing as that's what the hood's for. Anyone who thinks they're all dealing crack is an idiot.

It is perception compounded by the fact that on every second corner of the Downtown East Side and its fringes there is a white dude in a hoodie hanging out offering to sell crack to passerbys.

I don't get the same treatment in other parts of the city doing the same thing. Besides, no one likes anyone approaching them where you can't see their face as it blocks their intentions.
 
Until you change yourself, others won't. If you see race, they will to. So no, I am correct.

???

If one person doesn't care about the race of someone else, no one else will?




Also, FYI, people still get stereotyped based on their race even if they aren't wearing "thug clothes". Don't get why some people don't want to believe that.
 
Im white and I can tell you its not the same as growing up black. 8 years ago I would have been the same as the rest of the people in this thread. I'm white and i was taught that! Hey were the same! I'm sure most of the people grow up in the ignorant white suburbia. It wasn't really until I got exposure to disadvantaged neighborhoods before I truly came to learn of the difference.
 
As someone who knows full well what it's like to be discriminated against for things I have no control over, I can relate (well, kind of).
 
I often feel like this is just as much about mannerisms and dress as it is about race. When I'm walking down the street, guess which one of these makes me the most nervous?

I'm not saying that racism is non-existent in this country, but people ought to look at how they dress and act. When five black guys dressed like the dude in my second picture are coming my way, I get a little nervous, but not because they are black. How people dress and act are indicative of the kinds of behavior they'll engage in.

For anyone curious, I'm a white guy living in south Chicago. It's a dangerous place to live. The Subway 2 blocks from me has boarded windows because someone shot through them and the owner can't afford to replace the glass, and every window has bars on it that make you feel like you're living in a prison.

And if you're a decent built 6'2" 195 pound Black dude? From experience, there's little I can do to soften the imitation factor of being a large black man.

About a month back, I was walking to a friend's birthday party with a dress to impress dress code. I was wearing a Kangol hat, suit vest, dress shirt, tie, jeans and some fresh sneakers. I could have gone to a low level job interview and be considered over dressed. Anyways, as I'm walking on a side walk before nightfall, I see an oncoming middle aged white woman on my side of the street go out of her way to walk across the street (waits for a car to pass), only to walk back on my side of the street after passing me and continue on her way.

Something like this has literally happened to me dozens of times over the course of my life, and I'm 100% positive it wouldn't happen if I were a similarly built white man.
 
Do you realize how dumb this sounds?

People judge on looks all of the time. It doesn't matter how you see yourself if you never have any interaction with the person seeing you.

So, just because someone has never seen me, I should have my guard up and put up walls around myself so I limit my day to day activities out of a fear that may or may not happen? I should do this with everyone, all day?

Or, should I just say fuck it, if they don't like me, they don't like me. I won't see that person tomorrow and my life still goes on. You only got one chance at this life, seems stupid to focus on something that you can't control. Better yourself and it will carry on to your kids, and their kids, etc. Change will happen when people let go of this shit.

He's Stephen Colbert.

If only....

I just don't focus on small stuff when life is bigger then getting angry over a store clerk eying me down. But whatever floats ya boat. I'll leave you guys be now =)
 
???

If one person doesn't care about the race of someone else, no one else will?




Also, FYI, people still get stereotyped based on their race even if they aren't wearing "thug clothes". Don't get why some people don't want to believe that.

Because they can't accept it might not be our fault.
 
So, just because someone has never seen me, I should have my guard up and put up walls around myself so I limit my day to day activities out of a fear that may or may not happen? I should do this with everyone, all day?

Or, should I just say fuck it, if they don't like me, they don't like me. I won't see that person tomorrow and my life still goes on. You only got one chance at this life, seems stupid to focus on something that you can't control. Better yourself and it will carry on to your kids, and their kids, etc. Change will happen when people let go of this shit.

What is the point of this? Hey kids institutional and cultural racism just goes away if you ignore it.
 
Another issue is that people think that those things unrelated...

It doesn't stop at getting pulled over. It isn't limited to being looked at differently in certain environments.

I think that I did not make myself clear, because it seems to me that I left the impression that I see the two issues you portrayed as unconnected and not part of a larger framework of pervasive racism. That's not the case. The false equivalency is equally obvious but I might not have been thinking clearly enough when I posted because I think I was looking for some sort of logical connection on the sex crime train of thought.
 
It's not as extreme as it once was, of course, but you can't sit there and say a black guy doesn't fit the stereotype more than a white guy just by the color of his skin. You have to confront these things if you're going to combat them, dude.
I could swing that another direction if you wish. A white skinhead with a body covered with tattoos might be someone most would avoid, but that doesn't mean a black guy fitting the same description might not be deemed intimidating as well. Does this mean whites are being unfairly discriminated against? I don't think so, I think it just means don't dress in a way society associates criminal activity with and you won't be looked upon as a criminal.

If I dressed in a tracksuit am I affiliating with the mafia?
Um, i don't really associate tracksuits with mafia men but if that's something socially accepted as a mafia thing then I suppose people could assume you're a mafia affiliate.

Now mind you I'm not advocating judging people solely by how they're dressed, however; it most certainly does take place. Why do you think companies force people to wear uniforms? They want their employees to look more friendly and approachable. If the "uniform" you've issued yourself brings unwanted scrutiny then change it, or accept the side effects.
 
So, just because someone has never seen me, I should have my guard up and put up walls around myself so I limit my day to day activities out of a fear that may or may not happen? I should do this with everyone, all day?

Or, should I just say fuck it, if they don't like me, they don't like me. I won't see that person tomorrow and my life still goes on. You only got one chance at this life, seems stupid to focus on something that you can't control. Better yourself and it will carry on to your kids, and their kids, etc. Change will happen when people let go of this shit.



If only....

I just don't focus on small stuff when life is bigger then getting angry over a store clerk eying me down. But whatever floats ya boat. I'll leave you guys be now =)

All of these words are the epitome of "Well that's easy for you to say." Like, that phrase was invented for this one use, in this moment, right now.
 
So, just because someone has never seen me, I should have my guard up and put up walls around myself so I limit my day to day activities out of a fear that may or may not happen? I should do this with everyone, all day?

Or, should I just say fuck it, if they don't like me, they don't like me. I won't see that person tomorrow and my life still goes on. You only got one chance at this life, seems stupid to focus on something that you can't control. Better yourself and it will carry on to your kids, and their kids, etc. Change will happen when people let go of this shit.



If only....

I just don't focus on small stuff when life is bigger then getting angry over a store clerk eying me down. But whatever floats ya boat. I'll leave you guys be now =)

WHAT A RACIST RIGHT GUYS
 
Lol, at white people saying this is only about how you present yourself.

Lol at assuming everyone who is saying that is white.

Obviously, racist fucks are going to hate based solely on skin color, but I don't think most people judge others solely on that. Clothing appearance, however, is a big factor.
 
Does Jango live in some post-racist utopia?

16949216.jpg
 
Lol at assuming everyone who is saying that is white.

Obviously, racist fucks are going to hate based solely on skin color, but I don't think most people judge others solely on that. Clothing appearance, however, is a big factor.

Keep telling the people who have confronted racism in here what they did wrong.

Have we ushered in the victim blaming yet?

::popcorn::



Oh shit. Hahaha. Nice.
 
Then tell us the point.

That's actually quite interesting since I'm probably the privileged person, but I still don't understand. If I've experienced the same things how does it make it different if I'm white?

I honestly do want to understand the point, I'm not being snarky or anything.

For the record, I don't think either of you are being snarky.

Flying Below Radar: Race, Privilege and the Evidence of Things Not Felt

But here’s what I know for sure, and what I hope all of us are willing to consider. Whether or not those officers were hoping to be able to pull over a man of color, and whether or not they would have done so, had I been such a man, isn’t really the important thing. What matters is that at no point would I, a white man, ever have to fear as I travelled that or any other interstate or road anywhere in my country, that my color alone might trigger sufficient suspicion in the eyes of law enforcement so as to warrant a stop, even when I had done nothing illegal. That is not a luxury possessed by anyone who is black or Latino in this country — their country — and that matters.

Had I been a man of color, heading to Delaware that day for a speech corresponding to what has now become a week-long commemoration of the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday — a possibility to be sure, given that most speakers for such events are people of color — how might the incident have differed? I don’t mean differed in the sense that I would have necessarily been pulled over. Again, maybe they weren’t looking for a black person. Maybe they were looking for a white female who had just robbed a bank and escaped in a black Yukon. But how might it have differed psychologically and even physiologically, as I, the black man, glanced into my rear-view and spied the police cruiser advancing on me at a high rate of speed? As I saw it pull even with me and then stay there? As I looked to my left and saw the white man with the badge, the gun, and the full authority of the state behind him, staring into my eyes, calculating in that moment whether I was the one, wondering if perhaps I might have a wheel-well filled with drugs, or a gun under the seat despite nothing but my skin to even remotely imply that either of these things might be true?

No matter how much money I might have, what size home, what kind of job, what beautiful and perfectly functional family, or my level of education, were I a black man in that situation (or a Latino in this era of generalized suspicion towards brown folks as de facto undocumented) everything would have been different, from my heart rate to the anxiety-related activity in my amygdala to the tightening of my muscles to the lump in my throat. And while these may appear to most whites as momentary discomforts with no larger import, imagine those kinds of experiences happening not once or twice, but regularly over a year, two years, a life. Imagine the uncertainty, the trepidation, the second-guessing of every glance, comment, or stare, made necessary by a lifetime lived in self-defense mode, the need for keen observation and interpretation of the most mundane interracial encounters made as critical to your safety and survival as nutrition, as vital as love.

See, that’s what race means, even now, and that is what (among so many other things) gives the lie to all claims of post-raciality made by those who refuse to feel what people of color are all too willing to tell them, if only they could hear. That some must contend with almost daily reminders that they are perpetual outsiders, perpetual suspects, perpetually in need of proving their belonging — indeed their very humanity — while others need not concern themselves with such things, leaves the latter with an edge, however subtle, and the former with a weighty and pernicious hindrance, the consequences of which cannot be overstated. To know that one can not only drive without subjecting oneself to presumptions that one is less-than, but also apply for jobs or loans while knowing the same, or raise one’s hand in class, hoping to demonstrate one’s brilliance to the teacher, similarly secure in the knowledge that that teacher will not ever see the hand as belonging to a walking, talking stereotype of incapacity matters. In a society as fully in thrall to bloodthirsty competition as ours, such an edge can make all the difference. It frees up cognitive space for problem solving rather than worry, and for confidence rather than self-doubt.

That advantage — one might even say, privilege — of being seen first as an individual rather than as the member of a defective and problematic group, can even be the difference between life and death. And here I am not merely referring to the way in which so many people of color have been killed by police who saw their cell phones, keys, or merely black skin as evidence of danger and shot first, only to ask questions never. Here I am referring to the way that black and brown folks who are fortunate enough not to go the way of Sean Bell, or Amadou Diallo or so many others, nonetheless have their lives shortened by the racialized stresses that flow from life lived as a problem.

Years of research about which most have no awareness — because it doesn’t make the news — tells us that the daily coping with racialization, which people of color learn to do from an early age, but which whites rarely if ever experience, leaves scars. It contributes to the excess release of stress hormones in the black and brown body, causing something called allostatic load — a reference to the short-circuiting of the body’s natural defenses against anxiety-producing events and traumas. That allostatic load then corresponds to higher blood pressure, higher rates of heart disease, and early death. The research has found that even affluent black folks have higher markers for allostatic load than poor whites, despite the real stresses that the latter contend with each day.
 
There is a distinct difference between irritance and fear.

A white teenager who does the things in the OP is a punk, a nuisance. It's assumed that he's acting and dressing in this manner because he's young.

A black teenager who does the things in the OP is a delinquent. It's assumed that he's acting and dressing in this manner because he's black.
 
Keep telling the people who have confronted racism in here what they did wrong.

Have we ushered in the victim blaming yet?

::popcorn::

Just imagine if op was about black women... :)

Stay classy Gaf...

All in all, Yep Op. And I was raised middle class... being black in the world, is like being a criminal on their last strike. Things you do are different than others on a day to day basis... you just get used to it.
 
So, just because someone has never seen me, I should have my guard up and put up walls around myself so I limit my day to day activities out of a fear that may or may not happen? I should do this with everyone, all day?

Or, should I just say fuck it, if they don't like me, they don't like me. I won't see that person tomorrow and my life still goes on. You only got one chance at this life, seems stupid to focus on something that you can't control. Better yourself and it will carry on to your kids, and their kids, etc. Change will happen when people let go of this shit.

No one is saying to limit yourself to doing things. What people are saying is that to avoid decent (or larger sized) problems caused by ignorance ones may have to take precautions to not get stereotyped.


If only....

I just don't focus on small stuff when life is bigger then getting angry over a store clerk eying me down. But whatever floats ya boat. I'll leave you guys be now =)

lol so people who take precautions aren't focusing on the bigger things in life?

Really?
 
Obviously you need me, as a white person (bonus points for being a woman), to approve on your apparel from now on Dy. In fact any more hot black men need this service?

^^ you see this right here black gaf?

our reparations have finally come my brothers




or is it a trap, Ms Morello is that you?!?!
 
Keep telling the people who have confronted racism in here what they did wrong.

Have we ushered in the victim blaming yet?

::popcorn::

How about you stop with the straw men? Where did I say that people who were confronted with racism did anything wrong?
 
Of course you don't know why anybody would get worked up about something like that.

It does not happen to you like it does to me.

I'm sorry if I came off as dismissive. Could you elucidate on why you would get so much more worked up about it? I realize someone being interested in my hair and not bothering me falls under white privilege, but I cannot relate to how it would affect you.
 
Obviously, racists are going to hate based solely on skin color, but I don't think most people judge others solely on that.

Speaking in what context? People in certain neighborhoods? People in a certain part of town? City? State?

Depending on where someone lives, he/she may be surrounded by people who hate based on skin color.
 
I could swing that another direction if you wish. A white skinhead with a body covered with tattoos might be someone most would avoid, but that doesn't mean a black guy fitting the same description might not be deemed intimidating as well. Does this mean whites are being unfairly discriminated against? I don't think so, I think it just means don't dress in a way society associates criminal activity with and you won't be looked upon as a criminal.

Yeah, but that's blatantly incongruous. White skinheads are a tiny subculture with obvious signals that are clearly distinguishable. Black kids wearing hoodies isn't even close to being similar from an objective stance, yet the cultural expectation upon seeing that person is almost completely negative.
 
Yeah, I know. I guess that I just find it frustrating because I've seen people judge my friends that way. Almost all my friends back home are black, and some of them dress, no offense, in what would be considered 'gangster' style.

I once had a police officer come up to us in the mall, when it was me, the white guy, and them, and ask me if these men were bothering me. Which was pretty absurd considering I was laughing as I talked to them! Anyway, I said no, of course, and the cop had to 'make sure' one more time before hesitantly leaving.
Hahaha, that's hilarious. That police officer moment belongs on film.

And if you're a decent built 6'2" 195 pound Black dude? From experience, there's little I can do to soften the imitation factor of being a large black man.

About a month back, I was walking to a friend's birthday party with a dress to impress dress code. I was wearing a Kangol hat, suit vest, dress shirt, tie, jeans and some fresh sneakers. I could have gone to a low level job interview and be considered over dressed. Anyways, as I'm walking on a side walk before nightfall, I see an oncoming middle aged white woman on my side of the street go out of her way to walk across the street (waits for a car to pass), only to walk back on my side of the street after passing me and continue on her way.

Something like this has literally happened to me dozens of times over the course of my life, and I'm 100% positive it wouldn't happen if I were a similarly built white man.
I went out of my way to say dress and manner isn't everything, and plenty of people are just plain racist. My point was merely that dress and manner can influence how people think of you, and some people might mistakenly take others to be racist when in fact they're just put off by your dress and manner.

My mother is an overtly racist person. I have no doubt such people exist. In fact, when my family came to visit me, my mother told my sister to "Lock her car door, or they might take her away and rape her" after seeing the number of blacks in my neighborhood. My mother is an incredibly sweet woman, but she's also the living stereotype of the older white Christian woman who learns everything about the world from TV.

She also thinks Buddhists can use meditation to learn how to levitate off the ground, and that it's a form of black magic. It's not venomous, she's just incredibly ignorant and beyond the point where she is able to be taught differently. She also doesn't think she's racist.
 
Hmm yeah I was talking about this at work today.

My coworkers admitted that they were taking aback by my speech and my mannerisms.

At first, I'm thinking their joking but no, they had so preconceived notions about me. I point you all to my avatar.

I still often remind myself about the hoodie thing when I go to a store I'm not a regular at.
 
No one is saying to limit yourself to doing things. What people are saying is that to avoid decent (or larger sized) problems caused by ignorance ones may have to take precautions to not get stereotyped.

lol so people who take precautions aren't focusing on the bigger things in life?

Really?

I'll respond since you actually read my post....=P

If you let racist people eat at you, even in small doses, I would think it would build up, no? I just couldn't see myself letting things like that get to me. Although, I'm very laid back in general.

But that said, I apparently can't envision certain things in life even though the human experience is pretty similar when it comes to certain lifestyles. That said, I appreciate the response, but we just see things differently.
 
I'm white, middle-class, and never got this talk and have never really thought about it(except maybe 'don't stand too close to women', that's a pretty good rule in general for strangers). Just my personal experience.

EDIT: Just kind of thinking out loud; I live in a pretty heavily black area, so probably the majority of the time I go into a fast food joint, a drug store, movie theater, a grocery store etc. the people at the cashiers are minorities, and most of the time they're minorities they're black(really big minority community in this area in general though). Except 'white' fast food like Zaxby's and Chick-Fil-A, which I think have like an only-hire-white-people-from-upper-middle-class-communities policy. Do you feel less 'watched' if the people running the store are black? Don't know, again just kind of letting stuff run through my head.
 
At risk of sounding ignorant and dumb, so many of these issues were unknown to me until recently. I grew up in Maine and never noticed any racial issues of any kind (which I guess makes sense since Maine is the whitest state in America). I guess where I lived combined with the election of a black president reinforced my thinking that racism really wasn't a real issue in more.

I am not really trying to argue anything, I am just kind of astounded that people still have to deal with these sorts of issues. I thought this kind of stuff was history. It is sad really.
 
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