Wii U Speculation Thread The Third: Casting Dreams in The Castle of Miyamoto

Grymm said:
What good are SD cards going to do with the size of DLC and full retail game downloads?

The problems are still

Consumer: Buying at GameStop will have to go elsewhere for an HDD. No matter where you buy you still need an HDD likely adding ~$100 to the cost of the system. There's also many options so doing your homework is involved in picking a brand, size, finding a good deal etc. making it way more complicated than just offering a sku with one built in or offering a first party solution.

Developer: So many large space requirements from full game digital sales to DLC to patches to mandatory installs etc. and you can't count on a WiiU user having the space where supposedly 720 and PS4 will be built for that. And with the WiiU users who have a HDD they'll have varying hard drive sizes and brands and speeds and specs that has to effect development somewhat. And wouldn't 3rd party HDDs kinda open the door for hackers?

Use: everything TEH mentioned about load times, how data is shared between the flash memory and the HDD etc etc.

There is no positive in this situation. Except for Nintendo who takes another cheap avenue, but this is going to come back and bite them. It's potentially much more limiting than any lack of console power in our digitally distributed future.
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You think the scenario you posed before would apply to this? The 5-year old getting a Wii U is going to be getting disc-based games. They aren't going to be that concerned (if at all) with DLC and DD.

This post deals with us. Your previous post was a totally different consumer.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if they rethought the HDD thing. Those can be really highly marked up accessories and gamers plainly do not give one shit if they have to pay $100 for 20GB. You could sell USB thumb drives for like $150 and people would buy them and only complain if any thumbdrive worked.
 
Cabbie said:
Why is Nintendo so hesitant to offer different SKUs? They could still retain a low price point.
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deluxe-set.jpg


NESActionSet.jpg


They've done it before.. bring back the 'Deluxe,' I say!
 
ShockingAlberto said:
I wouldn't be surprised if they rethought the HDD thing. Those can be really highly marked up accessories and gamers plainly do not give one shit if they have to pay $100 for 20GB. You could sell USB thumb drives for like $150 and people would buy them and only complain if any thumbdrive worked.
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This is very likely.

Cabbie said:
Why is Nintendo so hesitant to offer different SKUs? They could still retain a low price point.
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That doesn't sound like a Nintendo sales method (edit: In recent gens thanks to Tom's post :P). Selling a first-party HDD add-on would be more plausible.
 
bgassassin said:
You think the scenario you posed before would apply to this? The 5-year old getting a Wii U is going to be getting disc-based games. They aren't going to be that concerned (if at all) with DLC and DD.

This post deals with us. Your previous post was a totally different consumer.
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The post you chose to respond to was part of a discussion that's been going on for two pages now. You chose to respond to one specific part of that discussion, I'm reiterating the rest for you since you seem to have missed it.

Or maybe you didn't miss it and just want to limit the discussion of what is certainly a negative for the WiiU which, lol.

Either way this is a potentially damning aspect of the WiiU. Let's move past how much RAM it has and its tricore processor and start looking at the realities of the console which is not far off in its debut. One of those being the storage solution they seem to have chosen sucks in many ways and is positive in next to none.
 
The main problem is more and more stuff is starting to require mass storage, installs, and patch after patch (large patches for almost every game which add up). If we're needing to rely on a slower medium of storage, dev's will have to compensate for that, services and features will be limited to a degree, and thus our experience will be limited. Difference between a 360 and what we know about the Wii U is that the 360 offers a preferable option for mass storage, which isn't USB-only.

If all DD, DLC large in size, and optional installs is loaded through a USB-only option that's a massive bottleneck in terms of overall performance (loading and reading). And from a development standpoint the option to do a mandatory/partial install is great, there are huge doors open when you have a known and fast mass storage device at your disposal. Without that, dev's and features are both limited from a back end perspective, as well as being slower than a PS3/360 would be when using similar options. Being able to buy your own drive is great, but I wish Nintendo gave me the option to use a 7200rpm HDD or even a SSD...why limit it to the cheapest and least effective option?

Another thing we have to wonder is, knowing the internal HDD in a console is a MAJOR source of heat, if Nintendo is shying away from this to keep the console small and cool. Giving the option for a internal bay makes the console bigger and drastically increases heat, and Nintendo of 2012 hate sacrificing aesthetic. eSATA works but that means it takes the effort to add a port and interface... :\
 
^ And if it's USB 3.0, that bottleneck goes away.

Grymm said:
The post you chose to respond to was part of a discussion that's been going on for two pages now. You chose to respond to one specific part of that discussion, I'm reiterating the rest for you since you seem to have missed it.

Or maybe you didn't miss it and just want to limit the discussion of what is certainly a negative for the WiiU which, lol.

Either way this is a potentially damning aspect of the WiiU. Let's move past how much RAM it has and its tricore processor and start looking at the realities of the console which is not far off in its debut. One of those being the storage solution they seem to have chosen sucks in many ways and is positive in next to none.
Click to expand...

Heck I'm pretty much the first person to ever point this out as an issue in these threads. If anyone has been looking at it closely it's been me. I've seen the debate and like I said it's not complicated like you're making it out to be. Like I've said the real issue is the connection, not the fact that it's optional.

And you shouldn't have used the five-year old angle because it did not work at all for your argument.
 
The big games especially have big patches. I remember when I bought battlefield 3, after all the initial shit, I finally start the game, and bam right there is a patch almost 1 gig large.
 
Grymm said:
The post you chose to respond to was part of a discussion that's been going on for two pages now. You chose to respond to one specific part of that discussion, I'm reiterating the rest for you since you seem to have missed it.

Or maybe you didn't miss it and just want to limit the discussion of what is certainly a negative for the WiiU which, lol.

Either way this is a potentially damning aspect of the WiiU. Let's move past how much RAM it has and its tricore processor and start looking at the realities of the console which is not far off in its debut. One of those being the storage solution they seem to have chosen sucks in many ways and is positive in next to none.
Click to expand...

And you're still clinged to this universe of dumb soccer moms ordering from NewEgg, Wal-Marts that don't sell HDDs, 30GBs games been the norm (and Gamestop sells USBs and SD Cards, they'll probably start selling bigger and more USBs when the/if the Wii U is a success)

But then again, seeing your posts around this thread and other Nintendo/Wii U related threads; like:
Grymm said:
When the controller isn't charging or out of batteries I'll probably be too busy wondering why there's no pressure sensitive triggers, why there's no multitouch, why they chose slider pads, and why they chose to put those slider pads in such an odd position to notice the low resolution.
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It seems you've made up your mind along ago about the Wii U and you just come here and there to start (and derail) arguments rather than have an actual discussion.
 
It's simple.

The hardcore will have no problem. The people who end up buying enough stuff to fill the HD have already crossed the line and become the kind of person who'll buy an expansion
 
Grymm said:
How about all these soccer moms that bought a Wii, or anyone who bought a 360 addon HDD?

Now you'll have 5 year olds asking their parents for a WiiU. Parent goes to GameStop WalMart and buys it. Finds out that now they need a 3rd party HDD. I don't even think they sell those in GameStop and Walmart. So they have to go on NewEgg?

I can only picture my own moms face if she ever had to shop for a hard drive on NewEgg. Slackjawed and drooling staring at the screen with no idea of what she's looking at.
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The mom of a five year old buying something at Walmart today, is different than a mom buying from Walmart 10 years ago. This is hardly some mind bending task for them.
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
The big games especially have big patches. I remember when I bought battlefield 3, after all the initial shit, I finally start the game, and bam right there is a patch almost 1 gig large.
Click to expand...

I’ve had it since release but played it for the first time yesterday because someone wanted to play coop, and .. multiplayer update: 2.07GB. I don’t know what it did, but the game crashed every 10 minutes after that. :P
 
TheExplodingHead said:
What do you think the odds of that are? I don't know, assuming Nintendo did choose a faster option, you think it would be eSATA or 3.0?
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USB 3.0 for simplicity. But I've said before that Nintendo finds ways to shoot themselves in the foot, and this is an area I see as one of the bullets in the chamber. I would be more disappointed with the lack of 3.0 than I would be with Wii U ending up as a 360 2.0.
 
fernoca said:
And you're still clinged to this universe of dumb soccer moms ordering from NewEgg, Wal-Marts that don't sell HDDs, 30GBs games been the norm (and Gamestop sells USBs and SD Cards, they'll probably start selling bigger and more USBs when the/if the Wii U is a success)

But then again, seeing your posts around this thread and other Nintendo/Wii U related threads; like:


It seems you've made up your mind along ago about the Wii U and you just come here and there to start (and derail) arguments rather than have an actual discussion.
Click to expand...

Oh please that's bull, nothing in that post suggests that he's some irrational Nintendo hater who starts arguments for no reason. There actually valid complaints in that post that I agree with, especially about pressure sensitive triggers.
 
Glorified G said:
Oh please that's bull, nothing in that post suggests that he's some irrational Nintendo hater who starts arguments for no reason. There actually valid complaints in that post that I agree with, especially about pressure sensitive triggers.
Click to expand...

This supposedly has changed, but we'll see. Though I'm used to hearing them referred to as analog triggers.
 
Glorified G said:
Oh please that's bull, nothing in that post suggests that he's some irrational Nintendo hater who starts arguments for no reason. There actually valid complaints in that post that I agree with, especially about pressure sensitive triggers.
Click to expand...
Is that and many posts too (search is gimped currently though :p). Like just a few moments ago, where the 25GB discs of the Wii U are no longer enough and therefore Wii U games will require disc-swapping.

Grymm said:
When developers start taking advantage of the next gen hardware the size of games is going to balloon and if Ninty is using 25 gig discs there's definitely going to be disc switching.
Click to expand...

One thing is discussing worries and another thing is making up things based on some alternate reality, which by coincidence it always paints Nintendo (and in this case the Wii U) is a bad form since:

-25GB discs are not enough.
-The controller is not enough (too low res, no pressure sensitivity, no multi-touch)
-People been completely clueless about how or where to buy an USB drive.
 
The nubs could stand to be a little bigger and raised a tad. And analog triggs are a necessity, but other than that, the current build is more than satisfactory for me.


HylianTom said:
Anyone have any educated guesses about what the size limit is going to be for DLC games?
Click to expand...
Do you mean by Nintendo's policy or the hypothetical maximum for DD in general?
 
bgassassin said:
USB 3.0 for simplicity. But I've said before that Nintendo finds ways to shoot themselves in the foot, and this is an area I see as one of the bullets in the chamber. I would be more disappointed with the lack of 3.0 than I would be with Wii U being ending up as a 360 2.0.
Click to expand...

Now that you mention it I guess 3.0 would be a lot more simple, for those who've never seen a eSATA connection. :P Plus there's probably some external HDD's that don't support eSATA. I'd actually think being Nintendo, they'd want to do a proprietary-type port and just sell Nintendo HDD's.

And yeah, you know me being a performance guy the lack of 3.0 or equivalent would annoy me way more than a minor visual bump. On another note I really wonder what their going to do with the filesystem on a external HDD? For some reason I doubt it'll be FAT32.
 
Cabbie said:
The nubs could stand to be a little bigger and raised a tad. And analog triggs are a necessity, but other than that, the current build is more than satisfactory for me.
Click to expand...

For the nubs, all I want is a circular/octagonal ridge for a bit more grip when I'm playing. Otherwise, I actually like it how it looks (and I like the 3DS' as well).
 
If there were 2 things I'd like to see changed in the design as is, one of them would be to expand the case to include an expansion for internal 2.5" disk drives. The other would be analog triggers.
 
HylianTom said:
For the nubs, all I want is a circular/octagonal ridge for a bit more grip when I'm playing. Otherwise, I actually like it how it looks (and I like the 3DS' as well).
Click to expand...

I want slightly recessed GCN analogs, and the sticks not so close to the edge. No slow turn too.

Irony time. The sliders may in fact solve many of the issues that have plagued analogs for a while. Slow turn, wear and tear and getting loose, sensitivity issues/defects. The only thing they'll will surely lose a bit on is precision.

HylianTom said:
I'm more interested in what folks think Nintendo's policy will be.
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If their going to offer full GCN games for download, depending on the selection, it would have to be about 6GB max. Multi-disc GCN games and all. REmake in HD would be sexy.
 
fernoca said:
There, fix'd the quote. :p
Click to expand...

Still needs another tweak. :P

Anyway that's just stupid.

TheExplodingHead said:
Now that you mention it I guess 3.0 would be a lot more simple, for those who've never seen a eSATA connection. :P Plus there's probably some external HDD's that don't support eSATA. I'd actually think being Nintendo, they'd want to do a proprietary-type port and just sell Nintendo HDD's.

And yeah, you know me being a performance guy the lack of 3.0 or equivalent would annoy me way more than a minor visual bump. On another note I really wonder what their going to do with the filesystem on a external HDD? For some reason I doubt it'll be FAT32.
Click to expand...

Plus if someone had a 2.0 HDD they wanted to reuse, they would be fine. And considering how long they've been running with SD cards, I couldn't see them going proprietary now.

But that last part is a good question. Maybe that's where they take some security measures for allowing external HDDs?
 
ShockingAlberto said:
I had heard they were tapping Headstrong for a reboot of one of their Dreamcast franchises and it had to do with an XBLA port.

Considering that it's Headstrong, the only choices there really are Space Channel, Crazy Taxi (which has only really been dead in terms of quality), and JSF.
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Fuuuuck. Poor Headstrong. Poor JSR. :(
Do you have any idea about the time frame for this? How far into development might it have been?
 
$hawty said:
I see your avatar all over this thread. Tell me bro. Quick answer.
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no one knows but the guess is 2.5 - 3 times the ram as this generation. GPU being 1.5-2x better on the least side of the scale, aka worst case scenario. That's very general/vague terms.

Lots of complex factors. No one knowssss.
 
TheExplodingHead said:
I want slightly recessed GCN analogs, and the sticks not so close to the edge. No slow turn too.

Irony time. The sliders may in fact solve many of the issues that have plagued analogs for a while. Slow turn, wear and tear and getting loose, sensitivity issues/defects. The only thing they'll will surely lose a bit on is precision.



If their going to offer full GCN games for download, depending on the selection, it would have to be about 6GB max. Multi-disc GCN games and all. REmake in HD would be sexy.
Click to expand...

I really appreciate the wear and tear issue. Imagine having to pay the high price to replace your uPad because the control stick/nub has gotten lose or worn-down. I'd be a bit annoyed.
 
My #1 on the list of things that need to change before launch is the color. They CANNOT release in white if they want to reach that audience they seem so keen on winning back. Black is the safe color, where you know you’re not losing anyone. If the only option is white, I know a lot of people will wait.
 
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