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[Dash27]

I didn't ask you if you thought he was racist; I asked you why you're so sure racial profiling wasn't a factor here such that you would be so confident in your "sure" position.

Being racist and racial profiling are not one in the same.

Ah my mistake. As for profiling, if the corn guy is right and the last 9 break ins were young black males specifically, and Zimmerman knew that, then Trayvon being black didnt help him. If the last 9 break ins were young males of mixed ethnic background, then his age and sex didnt help him. But I dont have a big problem with profiling to the extent that he called 911.

It's when he follows him in the car and then physically chases him that he crosses the line. I dont know that that had anything to do with racial profiling. I think that was more horrible judgement.

 

[empty vessel]

Stand your ground provides for civil immunity as well.

But at least you'd get a judicial determination on the issue. Zimmerman's use of force could fail to garner that immunity.

 

[Blackace]

Ah my mistake. As for profiling, if the corn guy is right and the last 9 break ins were young black males specifically, and Zimmerman knew that, then Trayvon being black didnt help him. If the last 9 break ins were young males of mixed ethnic background, then his age and sex didnt help him. But I dont have a big problem with profiling to the extent that he called 911.

It's when he follows him in the car and then physically chases him that he crosses the line. I dont know that that had anything to do with racial profiling. I think that was more horrible judgement.

has to be one or the other.. if he racial profiled him to call the police, and then chased him because he thought the kid was going to get away.. wouldn't he had been racially profiling him then too?

 

[Dash27]

has to be one or the other.. if he racial profiled him to call the police, and then chased him because he thought the kid was going to get away.. wouldn't he had been racially profiling him then too?

Firstly I dont know that he profiled him at all, but I do think it's human nature to generalize based on personal experience so I wouldnt be shocked or appalled to find out he had. I also think that as human animals we are pre-disposed to see young strange males as potential threats.

My question is, if Trayvon had instead been white, hispanic or asian would Zimmerman have left him alone? Considering Zimmerman was neighborhood watch guy, and wasnt shy about calling the cops, I don't think being a different race would have changed much. If Trayvon was old and female, he'd be alive. This is obviously just my opinion.

 

[neojubei]

Based off the early images that were released by the family - I too thought Trayvon Martin was a kid. Given his age at the time of the tragedy, I'd say that distinction is still accurate.

However, with new photos that have surfaced recently - I'd say physically he easily resembles an adult:

I think he was 6"1 - 6"3? That's quite tall. Even for most adults.

Are you kidding me? Really? Really? So you would sell cigaretts and alcohol to him?

 

[jaxword]

When was this announced?

Are you asking when did they officially say "Yes, the reason this person is not in prison is because of his family connections?"

Because no, they didn't announce that.

But if you mean when did people figure it out, it was when his father was making statements about his son's innocence and was found to be a (retired) judge. And people put two and two together because they're not completely stupid.

 

[KHarvey16]

Are you asking when did they officially say "Yes, the reason this person is not in prison is because of his family connections?"

Because no, they didn't announce that.

But if you mean when did people figure it out, it was when his father was making statements about his son's innocence and was found to be a (retired) judge. And people put two and two together because they're not completely stupid.

He wasn't really a "judge," and it wasn't in Florida anyway.

 

[kirblar]

This is Florida. See Casey Anthony.

Reasonable doubt is all it will take to not get a Murder conviction. I think it's doubtful they would try for Murder to begin with, most likely outcome of the grand jury would be manslaughter charges.

Zimmerman should face trial, but I fear the end result won't be to the liking of most people weighing in on this thread.

Manslaugher of a child has a thirty year sentence attached. It explains why people have been going to such lengths to protect Zimmerman - he's in very bad shape if charges are actually brought against him. Whether or not Zimmerman was hurt is largely irrelevant because Zimmerman himself initiated the confrontation.

Are you asking when did they officially say "Yes, the reason this person is not in prison is because of his family connections?"

Because no, they didn't announce that.

But if you mean when did people figure it out, it was when his father was making statements about his son's innocence and was found to be a (retired) judge. And people put two and two together because they're not completely stupid.

Zimmerman himself also likely had personal connections. He was a criminal justice major who tried and failed to make the police force and who was in contact with the local police on a regular basis.

 

[jaxword]

He wasn't really a "judge," and it wasn't in Florida anyway.

Robert Zimmerman is a former magistrate judge.

 

[KHarvey16]

Robert Zimmerman is a former magistrate judge.

Exactly, a magistrate judge. And he was a magistrate in Virginia, not Florida.

 

[Dude Abides]

I just don't see how stand your ground applies when you approach someone and initiate the confrontation like that.

On the 911 call you can HEAR Zimmerman running. Right before he states he's following him. Unless he is now claiming he was trying to run away....I think it's safe to say he was running to follow Treyvon. If that's the case, once again, how do you claim self defense when YOU are the aggressor?

Stand your ground does not apply to an aggressor, but it depends what "aggressor" means under Florida law. The statute says one who "provokes" the use of force. Would a Florida court consider following someone and trying to question them (if that's all that Zimmerman did) provoking the use of force? Maybe or maybe not. They might require something more, such as actually touching someone, to be considered "provoking."

 

[el retorno]

Those pictures of him recently make this case hit even more home. He looks just like a friend of mine (my friend is a big shorter but more buff). Its just scary that its not hard to imagine this being a friend of mine dead. :-/

 

[Seraphinianus]

Exactly, a magistrate judge. And he was a magistrate in Virginia, not Florida.

the state borders don't really matter if he's connected in FL

 

[jaxword]

Exactly, a magistrate judge. And he was a magistrate in Virginia, not Florida.

How could anyone possibly think there's no connections over state lines when it comes to Federal law.

 

[KHarvey16]

How could anyone possibly think there's no connections over state lines when it comes to Federal law.

That really doesn't make any sense.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

According to Pew Research

Republicans and whites more tired of hearing about Trayvon

Shocker.

 

[freenudemacusers]

According to Pew Research

Republicans and whites more tired of hearing about Trayvon

Shocker.

lol

 

[Dreams-Visions]

According to Pew Research

Republicans and whites more tired of hearing about Trayvon

Shocker.

I. AM. SHOCKED.

 

[Dash27]

According to Pew Research

Republicans and whites more tired of hearing about Trayvon

Shocker.

First response I saw in comments:

It is not a surprise that Republicans and Whites are tiring of the coverage, because it leads to a light shining on their racial bias.

I am a senior white "Independent" male. I am sickened once again that white America turns its back and its bias on minorities. American has become one of the most racist places on Earth.

lol

 

[Parallax]

According to Pew Research

Republicans and whites more tired of hearing about Trayvon

Shocker.

what i love is how now they try to cast light on all the murders prior to this one as if it makes the people focusing on it somehow worse.

 

[demigod]

I just don't see how stand your ground applies when you approach someone and initiate the confrontation like that.

On the 911 call you can HEAR Zimmerman running. Right before he states he's following him. Unless he is now claiming he was trying to run away....I think it's safe to say he was running to follow Treyvon. If that's the case, once again, how do you claim self defense when YOU are the aggressor?

Someone in this thread said they heard him load his gun while chasing Trayvon, not sure if true since i didnt bother to listen again. How can one fear for their life when they pursue someone? If someone is going to rob a house, theres a good chance that they have a weapon and of course Zimmerman isnt afraid because he has a gun ready to use.

Its so absurd that his friend went on tv defending it by saying it is a term of endearment. That to me suggests that he said exactly what we think he said. Also, he stalked and killed an unharmed kid, yes. But why did he stalk this kid? Why did he find him suspicious? Why did he say he was on drugs? Come to think about it, Trayvon may not have smoke in a while if he passed the drug test police gave his dead body.

I heard punks, with a big fat k. In fact i've never heard of the word coon living in Texas. But yeah i agree though, if Zimmerman didnt say coon, he would've told his bff Joe that he didnt use that word. No reason why Joe should've explained it to the media.

 

[Dram]

According to Pew Research

Republicans and whites more tired of hearing about Trayvon

Shocker.

Fix this at the source... parents who allow their children to idolize and emulate thug life rappers who sing about anti-white, anti-authority, criminal lifestyle. Then you act shocked when this mentality leeches into your culture and your children.

So sad

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

According to Pew Research

Republicans and whites more tired of hearing about Trayvon

Shocker.

 

[empty vessel]

Stand your ground does not apply to an aggressor, but it depends what "aggressor" means under Florida law. The statute says one who "provokes" the use of force. Would a Florida court consider following someone and trying to question them (if that's all that Zimmerman did) provoking the use of force? Maybe or maybe not. They might require something more, such as actually touching someone, to be considered "provoking."

The sponsor of the bill seemed to think provoking violence was broad enough to cover pursuing somebody while armed, but, then again, I'm sure there was a lot of political CYA going into that statement. I suspect when he was handed the legislation by a lobbyist, he never gave it a moment's thought.

(And obviously, the legislator's professed intent, unexpressed until now, will have had no influence on how Florida courts have interpreted the provision to date. It'd be interesting to see if they have interpreted it and, if so, how. But I'm not going to take the time to research it.)

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Someone in this thread said they heard him load his gun while chasing Trayvon, not sure if true since i didnt bother to listen again. How can one fear for their life when they pursue someone? If someone is going to rob a house, theres a good chance that they have a weapon and of course Zimmerman isnt afraid because he has a gun ready to use.

I asked how can someone claim self-defense when they are the aggressor. That's the question that blows my mind. How does someone follow, approach, attempt to accost/detain and then claim self defense when an innocent human being exercised his right to not be detained by some random person?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Stand your ground does not apply to an aggressor, but it depends what "aggressor" means under Florida law. The statute says one who "provokes" the use of force. Would a Florida court consider following someone and trying to question them (if that's all that Zimmerman did) provoking the use of force? Maybe or maybe not. They might require something more, such as actually touching someone, to be considered "provoking."

I don't know...I'd say following someone in the rain then running after them is definitely escalating that situation and putting oneself into the aggressor category. Considering the guys background and comparing it to Treyvon's I just don't know how it's even a point to debate.

 

[ElFly]

Well, in call1.wav

http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call1.wav

at 2:41 a weird metallic sound is heard.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Well, in call1.wav

http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call1.wav

at 2:41 a weird metallic sound is heard.

yea, that sounded like either a gun racking or a mag being locked into place. but who knows.

 

[jaxword]

Well, in call1.wav

at 2:41 a weird metallic sound is heard.

"They always get away...*click*...but not on MY watch."

 

[ElFly]

I was listening to call3.wav, the one where you can hear someone screaming and then the gunshot.

The yelling last for a good 45 seconds, and probably even more cause the yelling was the cause of the woman calling 911 in the first place.

So that's like a at least a minute of someone yelling.

 

[bob_arctor]

According to Pew Research

Republicans and whites more tired of hearing about Trayvon

Shocker.

Here it is:

The Trayvon Martin shooting is the public’s top story for the second consecutive week. But interest in the teenager’s death is deeply divided along partisan, as well as racial, lines. These differences also are apparent in reactions to news coverage of the incident: Far more Republicans (56%) than Democrats (25%) say there has been too much coverage of Martin’s death.

The latest weekly News Interest Index survey, conducted March 29-April 1 among 1,000 adults, finds that 30% say they followed Martin’s death more closely than any other story, little changed from a week ago (25%). The Supreme Court hearings on the 2010 health care law are a distant second; 15% say they followed the Court hearings most closely.

A separate analysis by the Pew Research Center’s Project for Excellence in Journalism (PEJ) found that the Court’s health care hearings accounted for 19% of news coverage. Slightly less coverage (18% of the newshole) was devoted to news about Trayvon Martin.

As was the case last week, African Americans are far more likely than whites to say they are closely tracking news about the Florida teenager’s death. Fully 58% cite news about Trayvon Martin’s killing as their top story, compared with 24% of whites. Moreover, 43% of whites say the story has received too much coverage, compared with just 16% of blacks.

Democrats, regardless of race, are following Martin’s death more closely than are Republicans. Nearly four-in-ten Democrats (38%), including 31% of white Democrats, say the killing of Trayvon Martin is their top story; just 19% of Republicans are following this story most closely. More than half of Republicans (56%) say the story has been overcovered, compared with 25% of Democrats, including 33% of white Democrats.

 

[Mudkips]

geez, nice work NBC. I just saw it linked on the front page of yahoo so perhaps it's old news. That's a terrible thing to do.

http://news.yahoo.com/nbc-news-regrets-editing-trayvon-shooting-call-220720073.html

Wow.

NBC edited

This guy looks like he's up to no good. Or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?

He looks black.

to

This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black

 

[Imm0rt4l]

According to Pew Research

Republicans and whites more tired of hearing about Trayvon

Shocker.

I could have told you that.

 

[AiTM]

I just heard that recently, before the event happened, a man in the same neighborhood was beaten by two 18 year old kids with a hammer and robbed. Is that true?

 

[bob_arctor]

I just heard that recently, before the event happened, a man in the same neighborhood was beaten by two 18 year old kids with a hammer and robbed. Is that true?

Is your Google broken??

 

[Big Baybee]

I just heard that recently, before the event happened, a man in the same neighborhood was beaten by two 18 year old kids with a hammer and robbed. Is that true?

Where did you hear that?

 

[AiTM]

Where did you hear that?

Listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, knew if anyone would know, this thread would

 

[bob_arctor]

Listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, knew if anyone would know, this thread would

Two arrested in brutal hammer beating in Seminole

20 seconds it took me ya lazy bum.

edit: do yourselves a favor and don't read the comments section.

 

[AiTM]

Two arrested in brutal hammer beating in Seminole

20 seconds it took me ya lazy bum.

edit: do yourselves a favor and don't read the comments section.

Was it the same neighborhood? Around the same time?

 

[Mr. Patch]

Listening to the Joe Rogan podcast, knew if anyone would know, this thread would

How did they equate something being in Sanford to being in the same neighborhood?

 

[bob_arctor]

Was it the same neighborhood? Around the same time?

What am I, fuckin' Scooby Doo?? Solve that mystery your damn self. Yeesh.

 

[AiTM]

I just heard this on his podcast, he said around the same neighborhood and same time. I was gonna say if that was the case, I would understand why Zimmerman followed him with a gun. Joe Rogan probably was talking out of his ass tho, like usual

Thanks for the work bob_arctor. When you posted that I just found it myself on google.

 

[akira28]

I just heard this on his podcast, he said around the same neighborhood and same time. I was gonna say if that was the case, I would understand why Zimmerman followed him with a gun. Joe Rogan probably was talking out of his ass tho, like usual

No, it's a different town. Winter Springs, FL. Close by though, looks to be under 10 miles away. Not that it has any bearing on this case, aside from the racial profiling bit...

correction, it was in Midway, FL, which is northeast of Sanford. Still not the same neighborhood. Same amount of distance away.

 

[KHarvey16]

It also happened a month after the shooting.

 

[Big Baybee]

I just heard this on his podcast, he said around the same neighborhood and same time. I was gonna say if that was the case, I would understand why Zimmerman followed him with a gun. Joe Rogan probably was talking out of his ass tho, like usual

Yea, because every black guy you see walking is a suspect and should be treated as such.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Yea, because every black guy you see walking is a suspect and should be treated as such.

Logically, yes...

 

[commedieu]

Yea, because every black guy you see walking is a suspect and should be treated as such.

Honestly, thats all their point has been since day one. Pussy footing around it sure, but they have enough rope now.

And the worst part is that these are the same people that pretend stereotyping & racial profiling doesn't exist. So 99% of this thread should stop saying it, because we don't know all the facts, and we are missing Zimmermans stormfront blog about declaring he was a racist.

At least we can all agree he was racially profiled...? No..?

fuck my face this is amazing.

Its clear at this point. Its perfectly legal, to them, to an be an armed civilian and stalk black people that fit a certain image. What else is it saying..?

 

[Gattsu25]

Logically, yes...

Sarcasm?

 

[BruiserBear]

Someone in this thread said they heard him load his gun while chasing Trayvon, not sure if true since i didnt bother to listen again. How can one fear for their life when they pursue someone? If someone is going to rob a house, theres a good chance that they have a weapon and of course Zimmerman isnt afraid because he has a gun ready to use.

If you put yourself in the paranoid mindset of Zimmerman, as his 911 call begins, I think it makes some sense of things.

He thinks he's watching someone "on drugs", and "up to no good". It's quite likely that he might even expect such a person to have a gun themselves. Then, as he's talking to 911, the guy begins to take off. Further heightening his suspicion that this guy is "up to no good".

So even though Zimmerman himself is packing, I don't think that would mean he was literally "not afraid". I'm sure he was actually quite concerned, because again, his imagination got carried away, and he thought he was almost certainly chasing a criminal of sorts through a dark neighborhood.

It's just a shame so many others things didn't happen as he began his pursuit. For example, if just one neighbor was standing on their back porch, or letting their dog out, they might have been there to say "what is going on here" as the confrontation began. Even with all that yelling, you'd think someone would have just walked out to see what was going on. Apparently that didn't happen.

Before anyone's imagination gets carried away, I'm not defending Zimmerman in any way here! Just explaining that while he is the bad guy here, his mindset was likely one built on fear.

 

[commedieu]

If you put yourself in the paranoid mindset of Zimmerman, as his 911 call begins, I think it makes some sense of things.

He thinks he's watching someone "on drugs", and "up to no good". It's quite likely that he might even expect such a person to have a gun themselves. Then, as he's talking to 911, the guy begins to take off. Further heightening his suspicion that this guy is "up to no good".

So even though Zimmerman himself is packing, I don't think that would mean he was literally "not afraid". I'm sure he was actually quite concerned, because again, his imagination got carried away, and he thought he was almost certainly chasing a criminal of sorts.

It's just a shame so many others things didn't happen as he began his pursuit. For example, if just one neighbor was standing on their back porch, or letting their dog out, they might have been there to say "what is going on here" as the confrontation began. Even with all that yelling, you'd think someone would have just walked out to see what was going on. Apparently that didn't happen.

Before anyone's imagination gets carried away, I'm not defending Zimmerman in any way here! Just explaining that while he is the bad guy here, his mindset was likely one of fear, rather than no fear.

BB, you understand that zimmerman was 100% in the wrong for following Trayvon, right?