If she was a 6/6 for 6 with a decent ability (probably wouldn't be everything is indestructible for that cmc) then she could very well have been put up there with the Titans. She would basically be a flying Titan, in that case.
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Magic: The Gathering |OT|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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If she was a 6/6 for 6 with a decent ability (probably wouldn't be everything is indestructible for that cmc) then she could very well have been put up there with the Titans. She would basically be a flying Titan, in that case.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Oh, man do I have the EXACT deck for that. It started off as an illusion tribal, but it only has vestiges of that left.
4 Lord of the Unreal
3 Mindshrieker
4 Phantom Bear
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Phantom Dragon
3 Adaptive Automaton
4 Mana Leak
4 Gut Shot
3 Ponder
4 Vapor Snag
22 Island
the_painted_bird
Member
Hey guys, question about the blue card Mind Control and the red card Gone.. If I enchant and control a red creature, and my opponent casts Gone against the creature I recently gained control of, does it return to my hand or his? (the red creature)
the_painted_bird
Member
Thanks again, Haly. ANOTHER question (thanks in advance, I've only been playing a few months now) about creatures with Defender and Wither. Say they're a 2/1 with flying, defender, and wither. They only attack/do damage with their 2/1 if they block, correct? In the form of -1/-1 counters due to Wither? If that's so then why do they have an attacking power of 2? Incase they have to clash with another defender/flyer with wither?
A defender with a power of 2 and Wither will put 2 -1/-1 counters on whatever it blocks. Their power is used whether they block or attack. I hope that answers your question, because I'm a little confused by what you are asking.
echoshifting
Banned
The number of wither counters left on a creature is based on the damage done by the creature, whenever nonlethal damage is dealt by the creature. It still needs to deal 2 damage (or more, with modifiers) to leave the wither counters.
Regarding defender, it's best to just think of the creature as lacking the ability to attack. It has no other impact on the creature.
the_painted_bird
Member
That is so badass. That creature only costs 1 to cast, too. Thanks ultron!
Aha... I see. That makes sense. Thank you, echoshifting.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Both when defending and attacking both creatures involved deal their Power to each others Toughness
EDIT: Beaten
the_painted_bird
Member
This is the card I was talking about if anyone's curious:
Also does anyone have any insight into how I'd go about bringing in huge creatures despite their high mana cost? I know there are cards that allow you to put any creature you have in your hand down for fewer mana but I was just curious if anyone has done it or still plays with huge creature decks.
Also does anyone have any insight into how I'd go about bringing in huge creatures despite their high mana cost? I know there are cards that allow you to put any creature you have in your hand down for fewer mana but I was just curious if anyone has done it or still plays with huge creature decks.
echoshifting
Banned
There are good reasons for this, though. Having only one toughness, the creature cannot possibly apply its wither counters more than once unless you use other spells to modify its toughness (opportunity cost) or give it an ability like first/double strike. And since it has defender, you can't use it to attack. A defender with only 1 toughness needs to pack a pretty good punch to be worth your while.
Not saying this is definitely a horrible card, but there are good reasons it is so cheap.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The two usual methods are discarding them to your graveyard and using cheaper spells that bring them back to the battlefield and using lots of cards in your deck that either tap for mana or allow you to search for extra lands, letting you reach the amount of mana you need much faster. It depends on the format you're playing though: in something like Commander you can often get away with just waiting until you have seven or eight mana naturally.
This is the card I was talking about if anyone's curious:
Also does anyone have any insight into how I'd go about bringing in huge creatures despite their high mana cost? I know there are cards that allow you to put any creature you have in your hand down for fewer mana but I was just curious if anyone has done it or still plays with huge creature decks.
Depends on the format I guess, but if you are just playing for fun there are plenty of tricks. You can mil them into your grave and then bring them in for cheap. You can use other card combos to search your library for them and bring them into play etc.
edit- beaten!
This is the card I was talking about if anyone's curious:
Also does anyone have any insight into how I'd go about bringing in huge creatures despite their high mana cost? I know there are cards that allow you to put any creature you have in your hand down for fewer mana but I was just curious if anyone has done it or still plays with huge creature decks.
Reanimation is the most popular/fun option.
And to get the creatures in your 'yard to begin with:
Or you could just go balls-out acceleration, priest of titania and such. *shrug*
I'm gonna have a writeup for my PAX East EDH deck later today. Shit is going to be long, and I need help finishing the deck -- I feel like it dicks around too much, especially the "fair" variant. It's an Animar wizard tribal combo deck.
Enordash
Member
At my first glance, Avacyn didn't seem as game breaking as Elesh, but the more I think about it, a T4 8/8 flying indestructible creature is the most insane thing I've heard of in a while. Looks like Frites isn't going away any time soon.
Also, you guys should totally check out what the Wasted Meter group is doing. You may love it, you may hate it, but I think they are doing good things for the Magic community (at least their local community).
http://youtube.com/wastedmeter
http://wastedmeter.com
Edit: I love the NeoGaf community and will absolutely take all critiques to heart.
Keru_Shiri
Member
This is the card I was talking about if anyone's curious:
Also does anyone have any insight into how I'd go about bringing in huge creatures despite their high mana cost? I know there are cards that allow you to put any creature you have in your hand down for fewer mana but I was just curious if anyone has done it or still plays with huge creature decks.
Several ways, actually.
Ramp - Accelerate your mana production with cards like Rampant Growth, and Primaeval Titan to get huge creatures down quicker. Ramp exists in Standard, more its more done in the service of fueling Kessig Wolf-Run then bringing down super-fatties.
Tron - There are decks in Modern focused on assembling the 3 Urza Lands and stuff like Eye of Ugin to get huge Eldrazi monsters down quickly.
Cheat cards - Stuff like Summoning Trap can bring a huge monster down quickly. This was a popular deck when Zendikar was still Standard-legal.
Recursion - Find a way to discard the big creature (i.e. Faithless Looting) and then revive it with Unburial Rites or the like. Look up the Frites deck (or French Rites) for an example in Standard.
Hope this helps!
EDIT: Beaten, several times, haha.
Without hexproof she's going to be incredibly vulnerable. Vapor Snag, straight-up Unsummon, Oblivion Ring, Dispatch, Mind Control effects. I think we'll see people account for this if she becomes too powerful as a strategy.
and tragic slip, fuck that card.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This kinda bugs me in the last few years. I get why they've been increasing both the power of creatures and the power of removal but I do think they're taking it slightly too far in both departments.
Yeah, I agree in full, but they're in a weird situation. The power level is so high but people are used to it. If they Kamagawa us again and weaken the game across the board the userbase may suffer. Nobody wants to buy shitty cards.
They need to find a better way to balance it.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well I felt like Scars took the power level down a bit, and Innistrad wasn't as strong as Zendikar at least. What's going to be really telling for me is the next core-set and weather the Titans come back.
Keru_Shiri
Member
I think Avacyn is tough, but fair. While alot of folks have been pointing out several cards that deal with her, there are a bunch of popular removal cards that can't. Doom Blade, Go for the Throat, Day of Judgement, Gideon's -2, any amount of burn, Dismember. Even Tragic Slip is going to require you to either kill an indestructible creature, or lose one of your own to get morbid going.
I felt like Scars was a pretty powerful block, but I didn't play in Zendikar. Innistrad isn't super powerful (I think it's less so than Scars), so I'm hoping the next block brings it down a little less as well.
echoshifting
Banned
The heavy reliance on a variety of tribes was a smart way to bring it down a notch imho. There are a ton of great tribal cards in Innistrad/DA which aren't terribly good outside of their intended decks.
Probably want to wait an extra turn to protect her with Faith's Shield. True, Avacyn will have a lot of answers to it, but hopefully you'll make them burn it on other things until they can get to her. In a mock deck, I got U/W/B going so I got some counter spells to protect her. I'll post my deck when I get home and could use some suggestions!
In Esper Control you are so, so much better off with any of the Titans, Consecrated Sphinx, Karn or Elesh Norn. Having to wait for 8 mana for your bomb is just too much. She is barely fringe constructed playable, maybe in Pod or Reanimator decks but nothing where you expect to hard cast her.
She doesn't even seem to be that fun to play as a casual card. Oh you can't kill anything on my board anymore. Great. Have fun.
"I'm so happy I was able to hard cast my Avacyn! Turn's over, go ahead"
*opponent taps an island and a swamp*
*plays Phantasmal Image*
"... oh."
I hate hexproof. It's completely ruined how people look at cards.
Those removal options apply to 99.99% of the creatures in magic, it's irrelevant.
The good news for us is that they've publicly stated that they didn't understand the power level of the mechanic relative to shroud (and especially not when it exists in large numbers on quality creatures in an environment.) MaRo also had an interesting statement on his tumblr where he mentioned that going back to Shroud as the default someday was not out of the question.
I understand why they thought that this was a good idea, but they completely missed that Hexproof blue was a very, very bad idea due to Counterspells being in the color (Hexproof's only there due to Shroud being a blue ability and absent.) They should have continued to let Hexproof be a non-keyword mechanic that only showed up occasionally - the decision to keyword is what really led to the current mess.
Yeah, you also not being able to target your own creature was what balanced it. It's a really OP ability when it's so ever-present, as it is now.
echoshifting
Banned
I don't think they could've done anything to satisfy people with Avacyn short of making her a new planeswalker, or something. Expectations were through the roof for that card.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Eh, she just isn't an interesting design to me. Big expensive body with a big generic effect. If she was an interesting B/W angel I'd be a lot more enthusiastic.
echoshifting
Banned
Yeah, I guess you're right about that. B/W would have been more interesting, and the mana cost might have given them a little more room to work with.
Still, if she hadn't been effin' huge every Timmy on the planet would have cried foul. So that much was a foregone conclusion imho. There's less room for nuance with the big stompers.
If they are well designed I imagine the 6 drop ones won't see much play until M13 when the Titans rotate out, which is a good thing.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah one of the single best things I can see them doing for the game's power level is not bringing the Titans back for 2013. Its not just the cards themselves, its the benchmark they set.
They 100% need to go. As much as I love drawing them mid-game and playing with them in general, they're a blight on game balance.
She's not even constructed playable. Hell, I don't know if I'd even play her in a draft deck unless I was super heavy into white.
Pretty terrible for a card the whole set is supposed to be based around.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The problem as I see it is that there really is a chasm between the playability of a card at six mana and a card at eight mana, and if they costed her at six the disproportionate rise in playability would mean that they would probably have to shrink her body significantly, probably no larger then a 3/3 or so
This is why I love Magic. I read this as a challenge and suddenly I am hyped to start brainstorming how to use this big drop in constructed. She probably still sucks but I will go down trying! =)
echoshifting
Banned
lmao, :brofist. I had the same reaction. That's how I like to play the game.
The power level of the card just isn't there.
You: spend a bunch of cards and turns ramping into Avacyn.
Opponent: Fiend Hunter Avacyn. Smash you.
The card costs way too much for any two card combo strategy to be viable in constructed too.
I'm not even sure why this annoys me so much. I don't even play magic much any more. Just the occasional MODO draft.
You: spend a bunch of cards and turns ramping into Avacyn.
Opponent: Fiend Hunter Avacyn. Smash you.
The card costs way too much for any two card combo strategy to be viable in constructed too.
I'm not even sure why this annoys me so much. I don't even play magic much any more. Just the occasional MODO draft.
echoshifting
Banned
I'm thinking about running her in some kind of B/W/U(splash) abomination of a deck. Gonna need to devote at least half the deck to getting her on the table and keeping her there.
You're only making it more compelling Ravager
You're only making it more compelling Ravager
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