clouds aren't bushes
New Super Mario Bros 2 announced for 3DS - August 2012
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
clouds aren't bushes
I have no idea what Sony is going to do until Autumn at the earliest. From now through August, the 3DS has that entire space wrapped up tight. Vita needs megatons now, and fast. If Animal Crossing lands in September, Sony heads will roll.
You make a very good point. I acquiesce!
It's hard to say. When SMAS came out I just felt very underwhelmed. They made Super Mario Bros. look like an underbudget video game. SMW to me was fantastic: You had towering mountains, beautiful, varied scenery. SMAS could have done a whole lot different but instead they just took the graphics of the original and made them slightly better. After all these years I actually appreciate the look of the NES versions a whole lot more.
I'm not really asking anyone to understand why I feel this way, but for me personally it just doesn't look... good.
That too.
Sony needs to shape up, and quick.
I do design work for a chain of stores also dedicated to videogames, and their big Vita campaign sold them less than 10 Vitas since January.
It was the mother of all flops to them
I totally dig the original aesthetic too, but yeah, I can't say I have a problem with All-Stars at all. Think it's great. In particular, the "night" levels look amazing in All-Stars, IMO.
This a bit silly, considering Strider, Sonic 2+3, Yoshi's Island, Comix Zone and many more all came out on equal or weaker hardware and all look better than World.
Not "everyone",
Then again I had no problems with the looks of the first and the Wii version.
Now music, was another thing. Wasn't a big fan at first, but with time enjoyed it. Haven't heard music of this new one yet, so keeping an..ear out.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
The salt over NSMB has been going ever since NSMB Wii was revealed. This thread is nothing!
NSMB Wii was met by a firestorm of hate, including actual gaming press rants about how it should be a $8 downloadable game and how Splosion Man was ten times the game NSMB Wii was.
Then there were bitter assertions that it looked like "a dollar iOS game", and for the last three years, there's a fair number of people who still call it a "port" of the DS game and continually say Nintendo is "just copypasta da assets" every time they make a NSMB game.
Meanwhile, one could contrive the same hyperbole with the Mario Kart series; look at how visually homogeneous that series is - not to mention that in the last three entries, it actually DOES port over half its tracks and assets from a previous game! Actual porting - not just using assets that stick to a specific style.
The difference is, people adore Mario Kart, so it can look the same each time but meet with approval.
I really do try to be considerate of all opinions and understand taste is subjective.
But... in the case of the more extreme reactions at least, never underestimate the power of a fan scorned. If a fan of a given thing believes that one particular form the only legitimate version, then any deviation will always be rationalized as pure trash.
Happens all the time with video games (as well as everything else). Look at the cries that Diablo 3 had the color slider turned up slightly too much and thus was a stab in the eye of every true Diablo player.
The effect does seem to be especially pronounced when it comes to Nintendo games though.
bahaha. I soundly ignored those people for many months, but having finally played the beta yesterday, I'm glad to be able to have my convictions validated.
In response to Kajima: Mario Kart still offers 16 new track locations in each installment. That's how many tracks there were in Mario Kart 64 -- the classic tracks were simply a bonus on top. Even each Rainbow Road manages to look completely different.
But with NSMB, it's 100 percent the same style and themes, for the third game now (and possibly fourth, if NSMB Mii is any indication of what the WiiU title will be like). The platform layouts change, but the backgrounds remain more or less the same. It's abysmal.
But with NSMB, it's 100 percent the same style and themes, for the third game now (and possibly fourth, if NSMB Mii is any indication of what the WiiU title will be like). The platform layouts change, but the backgrounds remain more or less the same. It's abysmal.
I completely realize that this is an opinion not very many people share. I can't tell you how much I loved the backgrounds of SMW:
Graphics for old Mario games are, to me, very special. It's actually the primary reason I was so disappointed with Yoshi's Island DS. They went from this:
TO THIS:
2D games are immeasurably easier to make, sooo...
Mr. Pointy
Member
I think the problem some people see with the art style of the NSMB games is that to them it comes off as somewhat flat and lifeless. I can see the point they're trying to make, and it's a similar criticism that has been applied to the DKC games. Personally, I think it's to do with the deliberately toyetic/moving diorama look of those games and the flatter lighting that isn't helped by the fixed 2D gameplay.
What a lot of people don't get is that Nintendo has been using the same CG art style for all their Mario games since Mario 64. Galaxy and 3D Land use the same art style, but the 3D
camera and rim lighting make them pop out more.
Also, SMW has boring art.
What a lot of people don't get is that Nintendo has been using the same CG art style for all their Mario games since Mario 64. Galaxy and 3D Land use the same art style, but the 3D
camera and rim lighting make them pop out more.
Also, SMW has boring art.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I understand the situation is not exactly the same. I'm just pointing out the principle involved.
Not creating wholly new worlds in NSMB2 is a legitimate complaint, but 1: new worlds nothing to do with production values or chosen art style and 2: we haven't seen the entire game yet.
On the side, I will observe that the only really annoying thing for me is thinking about the day that will come when Nintendo changes up the art style for a 2D Mario game and tries something new. What's going to happen then? Hoards of people not shutting up about how "finally a REAL GAME not that flash game NSMB TRAASSSH!!1" All because of a change in tile sets.
Graphics for old Mario games are, to me, very special. It's actually the primary reason I was so disappointed with Yoshi's Island DS. They went from this:
TO THIS:
oh wow, I had no idea Yoshi's Island DS had been changed up that drastically. o_o
That's... not great. :<
At least my beloved GBA Ambassador version remains mostly in line with the original.
Sis Focaccia
Member
Well. Not really. It's more about the overall experience of playing the game, and the visuals and audio is a big part of it. I find the direction of NSMB to be atrocious, personally, because it lacks the delicate refinement the series is known for.
Like people have pointed out, SMW is not visually stunning (although it is sophisticated in its simplicity). But it had a feeling all of its own. The majority of the enemies were new. All the songs were new, and all the sound effects were new or remade in a fantastic artisanship of sound design. It felt complete on its own terms. In a strange way, it felt believable. It had integrity.
The NSMB games by contrast are referential, with re-used assets straight out of the Mario sports games. Artistically, it's a hodge-podge. The "nudge nudge" nostalgia and recycled music and sound effects is completely gaudy in comparison. It doesn't stand on its own as a self-sufficient work of art, like the other Mario platformers do.
It's all about the feeling. You can't rationalise true finesse.
Agent Unknown
Member
The blandest Mario game in existence will always bee Mario All-Stars:
FFS they completely ruined the look of the NES games. The only one that really translated well was Super Mario Bros. 2 (Doki Doki version).
I knew there'd be some complaining about NSMB 2 reusing the art style but this is how worked up people are about graphics? Ragging on the 16-bit games and others using it as an excuse to troll that "Nintendo is doomed/needs to get their act together"? This is getting rediculous, I'm taking a break.
A new Yoshi's Island game by Nintendo could be something amazing, espcially on Wii U. Graphics like this are possible now:
TheNatural
My Member!
You can rationalize it all you want, its 4 games of the same style with nothing new in the pipeline. There's legitimate beef for people annoyed with this, and legitimate questions about what Nintendo's problems are internally that they can't do any more than this with their first jump into HD consoles and a fairly new handheld.
4 games out of how many others?
So ...what?
Why release one every 3 years if they're that easy to make? Why waste time in 3D ones, when those sell half what the 2D ones does?
Legitimate, probably when we see more of the game. Any "legitimate claims", based on just 4 pictures and a quick PR is just baseless speculation.
"Oh but it looks the same". So did Super Mario Bros 2/Lost Levels back then, so in that case is nothing new or shocking.
People love to compare the changes between Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros. 2 (USA) but tend to forget that the original Super Mario Bros. 2 in Japan was this one:
"Oh, but it looks the same.. something's wrong at Nintendo!!".
Because 26million+ bought NSMBDS and they still think there's ground to cover in that style?
It's not like this is the only Mario available.
I'm still banking on those Good Feel rumours...
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Not new, not shocking. Disappointing.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
What the fuck are you talking about? Complaining about art style in Mario games =! Nintendo is doomed
I knew there'd be some complaining about NSMB 2 reusing the art style but this is how worked up people are about graphics? Ragging on the 16-bit games and others using it as an excuse to troll that "Nintendo is doomed/needs to get their act together"? This is getting rediculous, I'm taking a break.
No one is trolling, either. The NSMB games look really bland. They're good, but really bland.
so what?
second part was about 3DS and e3. no more words
Enough about graphics guys. It'll be 3D, probably have some new worlds.
Let's talk about things involving gameplay.
1. Will the game have multiplayer? 2 players is a must, but 4 players would be nifty. It'll be nice to finally have your own screen for multiplayer.
2. Do the levels scale vertically? The picture shows the P wing scale, but Mario flies at the top with the camera level staying the same. I think it's just an early picture, seems kind of silly to have a P wing scale and no vertical scaling. I always loved exploring levels this way.
3. Completely speculative, but can we PLEASE ditch the lame 8 world overworld. It got especially boring in 3D Land and Galaxy 2. A world map like SMW would be so awesome!
Let's talk about things involving gameplay.
1. Will the game have multiplayer? 2 players is a must, but 4 players would be nifty. It'll be nice to finally have your own screen for multiplayer.
2. Do the levels scale vertically? The picture shows the P wing scale, but Mario flies at the top with the camera level staying the same. I think it's just an early picture, seems kind of silly to have a P wing scale and no vertical scaling. I always loved exploring levels this way.
3. Completely speculative, but can we PLEASE ditch the lame 8 world overworld. It got especially boring in 3D Land and Galaxy 2. A world map like SMW would be so awesome!
More like 26 millions
Seriously, saying Nintendo is creatively bankrupt because they reuse the same art as their best selling game of the generation besides MKWii is complete lunacy. They just want to make money.
Also you guys are blinded by nostalgia in a pretty massive way.
It's my favorite Mario game of all time and yet I completely agree with this.
SturokBGD
Member
In 1991, you were probably 10.
(I don't think the latter will happen though ;_
TheNatural
My Member!
Because someone buys something for it being a 2D Mario means they want more of the same style? If that were the case, Mario should have never changed anything from the original NES style.
It means the general public doesn't give a fuck about the art style and just want to play a mario game. Why take risks when you have something that works?
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Naw, seven.
Also: what's your point?
Integrity?
Whatever. I feel no particular need to buy Mario games day one. I'll happily buy this game used a few months after release. Whenever I pick up a 3DS I'll happily buy a new copy of SM3DL along with it, too.
There was definitely some over the top generalization in that post. Especially since one of the games hasn't been seen in a new form in over a year, and was, for all intents and purpose, a tech demo.
I don't really see how an internal problem with Nintendo is to be concluded off of so few games.
Higher standards?
TheNatural
My Member!
They can do that, but people can bitch when they don't like how shitty the style looks as well. Some people here need to get off their high horse.
Where in my message did I ever "troll"? I never claimed "Nintendo was doomed". In fact most people who know me know I'm a huge, passionate Nintendo fan who's interested in their history. But at the same time I'm not going to sit back and not express my opinion on certain matters. All I said was that I simply didn't care for the look of Super Mario All-Stars. If you look back I didn't even mention NSMB2 or anything related to Nintendo's current business practices. I was simply stating that SMW, SMW2 and SMB3 looked better than SMAS.
I really don't care for the look of NSMB2 though. NSMBW also had an abysmal art direction but it was still a decent game, so I still have high hopes. I just want a new soundtrack though.
Reusing a obviously really popular artstyle means they lost their integrity? What the fuck?
The complaints would make more sense if there weren't already examples of Mario games with incredible styles... Recent Mario games at that.
TheNatural
My Member!
You're assuming because something sells that it's because it's the artstyle. It's not an 'obviously popular artstyle' - it sells because it's 2D Mario. Stop making assumptions that everything crosses over to the appeal of why it sells.
Yeah I can safely say that everyone I know didn't buy it because it looked nice. They bought it because they could expect some tight, awesome 2D Mario goodness. A new art direction would be so awesome, and it's really sad that it's not just a given that a new Mario game will have a new art direction. Look at the different 3D Mario games: Each one was substantially different from the previous. They may all have looked similar, but they introduced new THEMES which is the number one thing I want. Super Mario Galaxy had the standard grass and fire areas but they did so many unique things with them. The mix of fire and ice for one stage was awesome and something that feels prohibited for a 2D Mario game... which I just don't get. Why can't each stage be a mix of different environments? That would actually be really cool :/
EDIT: The stage I was talking about:
