Depression

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If you read what I posted, I wasn't trying to write off depression as a generality. I've had friends who've died due to it, others who've come close, I've stared over some very steep drops from tall buildings in my time as well and some days it can still be tempting to be honest.

This isn't a medical community or a high-level recognized support group, its just a forum where some people are obviously hurting and some others are just trying to express how they feel in a way that they hope will be helpful to someone without being too damaging to others. What i have posted it, write it (and me) off if you want, I don't care, but hopefully at least someone out there will find it useful and have a little better day for it.

You posted that shitty sleeping dragon's "heart was in the right place" when he essentially comes in here screaming for people to "man up" and "stfu noobs" if people disagree with his crappy tone.

Please, just get the hell out of here and don't come back.
 
To be honest, when some people do get pretty far gone/lost in their own funky heads, they do kinda need a shocking "wake the hell up!" call.
No.
 
Guys the "you need to get up and do something" is nice advice but depression can result in the inability to do just that, despite wanting to. This is why these insights are especially unhelpful.
 
wow!! you guys who are depressed and wants to kill themselves are such cry babies!! for crying out loud you are very lucky to have an internet and a forum to post your useless thoughts on, in many countries kids dont even have food or shelter to live on and most of them will fight on and trying to live.

First of all, i assume most of you are guys, well then, MEN RATHER SHED BLOOD THEN TEARS.- man the hell up and do something that empower you like going to the gym or learning kung fu. I believe everyone on earth is good at something, you just needs to looks harder and experiments with it and you will eventually find it, just looks at Stephen Hawkings right now that dude is in a wheelchair for the past 20 years, he cant even talk or move his body and yet hes been the smartest man in the world for the last 20 years. wtf?

Never have a gf or cant get a gf? well i used to have this problem too but i got over it by finding myself a gf and after that all girls are very much the same, they have the same thought process and if you understand them then you know what to do when you try to chase them. One more advise when chasing a girl is dont act too desperate when you guys first met, dont be too sweet to them all the times, always find some negative things about her and make a jokes out of it- this always works but as always you have to show that you care for her after you done joking.

Anyway good luck to you all and try to do something about it and stop thinking of killing yourself, life's too short so might as well make the most out of it.

lol this post is horrible

Congrats on not knowing how to help anyone with anything. BOOTSTRAPS!
 
I'm back from Japan and feeling even worse than when I left. I didn't really scope how fat I was until my friend showed me photos of myself. I felt very embarrassed to even be walking in Japan and swore to myself I would start going back to the gym. Now I am back and I do want to leave my bed. It's after 1pm now so I know the buses will be crowded of annoying high schoolers whom I do not want to deal with. I don't have a car so that isn't an option. Also planned to get a haircut but now that won't happen. Thinking about it even if I lose weight or not guys I am attracted to won't date me so what is the point.

Why on earth would you want to date anyone who is extremely shallow in judging people solely on how they look?

Are you really that naive to think that people who look good will somehow make you happy? In particular when you expect them to as shallow as roadkill that has been driven over by every vehicle known to man?

You went to Japan for a reason. Surely you have good stories to tell that would work in a bar. (maybe I'm misjudging 'gay culture' here, but none of the gay people I know are as shallow as you believe they must be. Also: GAF is the worst possible place to get "advice" on cleanliness, friendship, dating, relationships and so on. If you go by that standard, then there is your problem right there. GAF is batshit insane in these things, and actually married people seem to avoid such threats for a reason). Moping until hell freezes over about it sure as hell is not going to do anything worthwhile.
(edit: except for a real topical thread like this one, that is.)

And do no reply to this with some defeatist line, because you are quickly running out of my sympathy as it is (I have had my share of experience with people who like playing the victim). What I want to hear from you, and you alone, is what you need to do to fix your world and what it would take to get there. I want to hear Options, not "no can't do".
 
Why on earth would you want to date anyone who is extremely shallow in judging people solely on how they look?

Are you really that naive to think that people who look good will somehow make you happy? In particular when you expect them to as shallow as roadkill that has been driven over by every vehicle known to man?

You went to Japan for a reason. Surely you have good stories to tell that would work in a bar. (maybe I'm misjudging 'gay culture' here, but none of the gay people I know are as shallow as you believe they must be. Also: GAF is the worst possible place to get "advice" on cleanliness, friendship, dating, relationships and so on. If you go by that standard, then there is your problem right there. GAF is batshit insane in these things, and actually married people seem to avoid such threats for a reason). Moping until hell freezes over about it sure as hell is not going to do anything worthwhile.

And do no reply to this with some defeatist line, because you are quickly running out of my sympathy as it is (I have had my share of experience with people who like playing the victim). What I want to hear from you, and you alone, is what you need to do to fix your world and what it would take to get there. I want to hear Options, not "no can't do".

Or is there anywhere he can run? I'm finally trying to get into shape and I've never gone to a gym. There's no where you can walk/jog by you? A park or even the road?
 
Guys the "you need to get up and do something" is nice advice but depression can result in the inability to do just that, despite wanting to. This is why these insights are especially unhelpful.

... and yet it's the best advice anyone can give you.
If you go and start being out there, life will happen to you. All the things people in this thread are craving for.

I know it's hard. I've been there. Hell, I've been through much worse. I know your brain is working against you in every way. Once you overcome that lethargy, everything will gradually get better. You will still have days where you feel like everything is shit, but they'll be few and far between.

As far to how to overcome the lethargy? Well, for me it was finding a girl I actually wanted to be with and worked my ass of to make it happen.
(And if you think a girl will make you feel happy you are wrong. If you are actually depressed, love and the feelings that come with it will fuck you up much more than you can possibly deal with)

You can not let your depression ruin your life. Every day you spend dwelling on it is one day less you can enjoy the shit out of.
 
I just studied really really hard for a math test. I failed pretty hard. I won't get a good grade in math and I feel like my future plans on becoming an architect won't come true. I also have another test tomorrow and I haven't studied.. pretty down.
 
I am a size 46 in pants

that literally explains everything thats wrong with you.
you're not really depressed, you're just wallowing in self-pity.


I just studied really really hard for a math test. I failed pretty hard. I won't get a good grade in math and I feel like my future plans on becoming an architect won't come true. I also have another test tomorrow and I haven't studied.. pretty down.

get off GAF and go study then?
 
A bunch of guys have been recommending the gym and being active and trying new things and a healthy diet. A few have recommended cutting out negative or depressing or angry people from their lives.

This stuff works like magic!

Cubsfan highly recommends PSTEC and for trauma anxiety or PTSD it can really help.


However, if all these fail and you are still unmotivated or depressed or suicidal download the full free ebook from thewayup.com.

You might just be chemically out of balance and this stuff blows antidepressants out of the water completely like a nuclear missile.

Combining all of the above is just a depression killer. You may not be happy but you will start to have drive and ambition and see more in color than black and white!
 
Blows my mind how I've mentioned it a few times and no one, outside of a few people who already did it, will try it.

Woe is me, these pharmas really have something over people today.
 
wow!! you guys who are depressed and wants to kill themselves are such cry babies!! for crying out loud you are very lucky to have an internet and a forum to post your useless thoughts on, in many countries kids dont even have food or shelter to live on and most of them will fight on and trying to live.

First of all, i assume most of you are guys, well then, MEN RATHER SHED BLOOD THEN TEARS.- man the hell up and do something that empower you like going to the gym or learning kung fu. I believe everyone on earth is good at something, you just needs to looks harder and experiments with it and you will eventually find it, just looks at Stephen Hawkings right now that dude is in a wheelchair for the past 20 years, he cant even talk or move his body and yet hes been the smartest man in the world for the last 20 years. wtf?

Never have a gf or cant get a gf? well i used to have this problem too but i got over it by finding myself a gf and after that all girls are very much the same, they have the same thought process and if you understand them then you know what to do when you try to chase them. One more advise when chasing a girl is dont act too desperate when you guys first met, dont be too sweet to them all the times, always find some negative things about her and make a jokes out of it- this always works but as always you have to show that you care for her after you done joking.

Anyway good luck to you all and try to do something about it and stop thinking of killing yourself, life's too short so might as well make the most out of it.

Fucking pussies with cancer! Just man up and kill those pussy cells! Argh! Real men don't have brain problems, either!

You, sir, are a fucking idiot.
 
I was a depressed mofo. Made a ton of threads on GAF about it, looking for an "answer" to my problem. But there is no single answer. To this day I still feel bad sometimes. But you know what helped me get over it for the most part? I said to myself: "Your life has sucked. You're insecure because of things that have happened in the past. You sleep all-day, think nothing of yourself and dream of who you wish you were. But how can you ever be that person if you don't do anything?"

I did live a shitty life. Everyone has shitty moments in their life. And I won't say "Other people have it worse than me". No. because everyone's personal suffering is just as painful, whether you're in a first world country or third. Pain is pain. So I decided that because my life had sucked, I wasn't going to just lay down and die. Moaning and feeling sorry for myself. I made a decision. That the things I went through, I didn't want anyone else to go through! And that I would do my best to make things better, I would represent myself and the ideals that I so longed to see in others.

That's all it came down to for me. My depression isn't "over". I don't know if it'll ever be. Some of these things just stay with you forever. But it serves as a constant motivator for me to help other people in any way I can. By enriching other people's lives, that I can somehow pay it forward in some way.

I don't care what any of you guys do. But just do something! Laying around or constantly thinking about your life's story is incredibly damaging to ones mind. Start moving and you'll find it harder to stop.
 
wow!! you guys who are depressed and wants to kill themselves are such cry babies!! for crying out loud you are very lucky to have an internet and a forum to post your useless thoughts on, in many countries kids dont even have food or shelter to live on and most of them will fight on and trying to live.

First of all, i assume most of you are guys, well then, MEN RATHER SHED BLOOD THEN TEARS.- man the hell up and do something that empower you like going to the gym or learning kung fu. I believe everyone on earth is good at something, you just needs to looks harder and experiments with it and you will eventually find it, just looks at Stephen Hawkings right now that dude is in a wheelchair for the past 20 years, he cant even talk or move his body and yet hes been the smartest man in the world for the last 20 years. wtf?

Never have a gf or cant get a gf? well i used to have this problem too but i got over it by finding myself a gf and after that all girls are very much the same, they have the same thought process and if you understand them then you know what to do when you try to chase them. One more advise when chasing a girl is dont act too desperate when you guys first met, dont be too sweet to them all the times, always find some negative things about her and make a jokes out of it- this always works but as always you have to show that you care for her after you done joking.

Anyway good luck to you all and try to do something about it and stop thinking of killing yourself, life's too short so might as well make the most out of it.
A shame the mods don't seem to be coming in here. You should be banned immediately.
 
wow!! you guys who are depressed and wants to kill themselves are such cry babies!! for crying out loud you are very lucky to have an internet and a forum to post your useless thoughts on, in many countries kids dont even have food or shelter to live on and most of them will fight on and trying to live.

Did you really just pull the 'starving kids in Africa' fallacy?
gtfo
 
I have a job, a girlfriend, and do plenty of 'stuff' such as video games, sports, running, programming, reading, etc. Even with all of that, I still feel depressed at times. It isn't as simple as 'bootstraps' sometimes.
 
Or is there anywhere he can run? I'm finally trying to get into shape and I've never gone to a gym. There's no where you can walk/jog by you? A park or even the road?
I don't think I could ever, ever go to a gym (too self-conscious, and also too broke to afford the expensive membership fees in the city), but exercising at home is always an option which I think is overlooked by a lot of people. I've lost thirty pounds in three months on two separate occasions (my fault for letting myself get lazy again after the first time) with P90. $70ish bucks from Amazon and it comes with literally everything you need. There are certainly other at-home options, but P90 is probably the best bet for people who've never done any real exercise routine, or have been out of shape for a while.

Exercise and a healthy diet really does help, at least in some ways. Unhealthy food is fucking delicious, and seemingly cures so many things; sometimes I wish I could go back to eating pizza, fries and pretzel M&Ms all the time, but feeling physically better (you really will) and seeing yourself make progress is better, as hard as it can be to convince yourself of it at times.
 
I have a job, a girlfriend, and do plenty of 'stuff' such as video games, sports, running, programming, reading, etc. Even with all of that, I still feel depressed at times. It isn't as simple as 'bootstraps' sometimes.

True, my life would be considered pretty good by most people, but i still feel like absolute shit all the time
its not always matter of circumstance
If it is, then its probably not clinical depression
 
wow!! you guys who are depressed and wants to kill themselves are such cry babies!! for crying out loud you are very lucky to have an internet and a forum to post your useless thoughts on, in many countries kids dont even have food or shelter to live on and most of them will fight on and trying to live.

First of all, i assume most of you are guys, well then, MEN RATHER SHED BLOOD THEN TEARS.- man the hell up and do something that empower you like going to the gym or learning kung fu. I believe everyone on earth is good at something, you just needs to looks harder and experiments with it and you will eventually find it, just looks at Stephen Hawkings right now that dude is in a wheelchair for the past 20 years, he cant even talk or move his body and yet hes been the smartest man in the world for the last 20 years. wtf?

Never have a gf or cant get a gf? well i used to have this problem too but i got over it by finding myself a gf and after that all girls are very much the same, they have the same thought process and if you understand them then you know what to do when you try to chase them. One more advise when chasing a girl is dont act too desperate when you guys first met, dont be too sweet to them all the times, always find some negative things about her and make a jokes out of it- this always works but as always you have to show that you care for her after you done joking.

Anyway good luck to you all and try to do something about it and stop thinking of killing yourself, life's too short so might as well make the most out of it.

You should be sleeping, dragon.
 
People suggesting exercise, avoiding negative thoughts, and going out and trying new things need to understand that their advice is sound - you need to make changes in your life situation to rise out of the depressed state. However, you have got to realize that depression is a disease of the brain. Forget your Cartesian mind/body duality - the "mind" is the result of complex electrical and chemical signalling in the brain. To grossly oversimplify, getting up off the couch to go outside involves activation of the prefrontal cortex, where planning occurs. Information is passed to to the premotor complex, which has a role in planning movement and sending signals to the trunk muscles. The motor cortex has to be activated to execute voluntary movements. You have activation of the hippocampus to orient yourself in space and remember what you were getting up to do. The rest of the limbic system is involved in your motivation and emotional state.

In depression, you can have problems with the signalling in any of these regions, and the propagation of signals between the different brain regions. To understand what this can look like, think about Parkinson's disease. The Parkinsonian patient has lost key dopaminergic inputs to brain regions responsible for voluntary movement (dopamine does all sorts of things in the brain - most neurotransmitters have diverse functions, varying with the timing and location of their release. Dopamine is involved in voluntary movement, paralyzing your body when you sleep so you don't act out your dreams, reward conditioning [a dopaminergic pathway is a common final pathway in drug addictions] among other things). Despite the will to movet= the body, the Parkinsonian patient displays rigidity, slowed movement (bradykinesia), tremor, and impaired balance. The patient wants to make smooth voluntary movements, but lacks the chemical messengers the brain uses to carry out this function.

It helps to think of depression the same way. There are defects in the chemical messengers and neural circuits involved in mood, motivation, memory, appetite, anxiety, sleep, energy/lethargy, irritability, and the impulse to harm of even kill oneself. The specific changes vary between patients and can have genetic, developmental, and acute etiologies.

It's easy to say to the depressed patient, "just get up and do something! Think positive thoughts!" However, the brain of the depressed patient may lack the chemical messengers, pathways, connections, etc. to actually accomplish a simple act like getting motivated to get out of bed, get ready to leave the house, and engage in a relatively simple task. Think of asking a diabetic to "just make more insulin!" It's a little more complicated than that, because the brain is so incredibly complex and there are so many signals and connections, but the analogy is still helpful in understanding why depressed people seem locked into negative thoughts, are seemingly unable to engage in seemingly simple beneficial activities, and may be obsessed with feelings of worthlessness and suicidality. Your brain needs proper signalling to occur for you to carry on the activities of your life. Screw up that signalling and you can get mental illness. It may be nearly impossible to suppress negative thoughts because the depressed brain just keeps sending these signals.

Encouraging the depressed patient to make changes in his or her life, to engage with the world, to exercise, to give thought to the positive aspects of life - these are all good things. However, your thoughts are running on your brain "hardware." You can't think yourself out of depression if the chemical messengers that propagate these thoughts around are out of whack. You have to understand depression as a disease of the brain. We generally talk about mental disorders as diseases of the mind (by definition), but you have to understand that the mind is instantiated in the brain. You can alter your brain circuitry through therapy and medications, but it's rarely as simple as just "thinking happy thoughts." Imagine the extreme case of a brain completely lacking the chemical signals for happy thoughts - dopamine, serotonin, the endogenous opioids, etc. The brain isn't magical - if you deplete the neurotransmitters involved in positive emotions, how do you make your brain produce those emotions? This is why people's mood crashes after they use cocaine - your brain basically dumps its stock of "feel good" neurotransmitters and you feel like shit until you can replenish your stores of dopamine, etc. Your brain can't send messages without the right neurotransmitters.

So yes, encourage your depressed friends to get out and do things, to engage with the world, to seek out positive experiences. But have some compassion - there are neurotransmitters underlying ideas such as willpower. It's not always a personal moral failure if you can't muster the willpower, desire, etc. to make some positive change in your life, or even just to take a simple action like get out of bed and face the outside world. The depressed patient may physically lack adequate neurotransmitter levels, have abnormal distribution of these transmitters, or have problems with the receptors for neurotransmitters involved in mood, motivation, etc. Just as the Parkinsonian patient may lack the dopamine needed to complete a smooth, rapid movement (no matter how much they try to "will" themselves to make the motion), the depressed patient may have a problem regulating the level of the mood regulating transmitter serotonin. No amount of "will power" or kicking oneself in the ass is going to make the depressed patient spring up and undertake a bunch of interventions to improve his or her life. Depression is a complex disease and the treatment can take a great deal of time, effort, medication, therapy, and support from loved ones. The ultimate goal is to rewire your brain, and that's rather hard to do.

Sorry if I've told the "just exercise!" or "get off your ass and do something!" crowds to fuck off, but you've got to understand the complexity, severity, and subtlety of the changes in the brain that can lead t depression. Some depression is probably mainly psychological - the treatment is to learn to think in a slightly different way, but you have to remember that severe depression is a disease of the brain with structural and chemical changes that can be very hard to fix. Often the changes have been reinforced over the period of years, may have underlying genetic factors, and be compounded by psychological problems.

And remember that what gets called "Major Depressive Disorder" is probably best thought of as a family of "Major Depressive Disorders". I read William Styron's classic account of his depression, Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness, and was surprised at how different his experience of depression was from my own.

Keep at it, DepressedGAF! Personal stories of overcoming depression can be very powerful, but recognize that all sorts of different symptoms fit under the umbrella of "Major Depressive Disorder(s)." What worked for you may make someone else worse (I got much worse on a Wellbutrin/Celexa combo - others swear by these drugs). And simply saying "get out there and change your whole life!" is much easier said than done, especially when your brain's basic circuitry is a complete mess.

There's always hope, bleak as things may seem at times. If a therapy doesn't work, there are dozens more to try. End you life, on the other hand, and that's that.

Sorry for the long posts. I recognize that "tl:dr" might as well be my middle name, but I sincerely hope that you can find something in all this writing that resonates with you. I'm happy to answer any questions about whatever - the scientific literature, current theories of depression, new therapies, my own journey from severe depression to remission (knock on wood!), books about depression, treatment centers, why Nick Drake's album Pink Moon is one of the great works of art "about" depression ever created, whatever.
 
Blows my mind how I've mentioned it a few times and no one, outside of a few people who already did it, will try it.

Woe is me, these pharmas really have something over people today.

I've downloaded it but in typical depression style, I haven't got around to doing anything with it yet
KuGsj.gif


I will be giving it a go when I get back from my next study/exam week, which starts next week.
 
Guys the "you need to get up and do something" is nice advice but depression can result in the inability to do just that, despite wanting to. This is why these insights are especially unhelpful.


And even when you do something it doesn't mean you will not be depressed anymore.

Getting in shape, being good looking, practising a lot of sports, having a job and being independant, being social, open to life and other people doesn't mean you're going to be happy and less depressed. Depression is a constant fight and needs more than basic check lists.
 
Our fucked-up-ness, our flawed character is what makes us interesting, unique, special. It's what makes art twisted, it's what makes horror movies cynical and disturbing, it's what makes really dark humor so funny and primitively engaging. If everyone was doped-up-peaceful happy to their core, the world would be bland, uninteresting, grey... Pointless.

Damn, lots of truth in this statement and your whole post.

Battling through my own shit right now and sometimes I feel like just giving up. I could just start taking Xanax and other benzos(which I've abused in the past) but I'm trying my best not to.

I'll snap out of it one day I'm sure of that. When that day comes I don't know.

To the rest of you, I've been lurking this thread for awhile and I truly wish you all the best.
 
Damn, lots of truth in this statement and your whole post.

Battling through my own shit right now and sometimes I feel like just giving up. I could just start taking Xanax and other benzos(which I've abused in the past) but I'm trying my best not to.

I'll snap out of it one day I'm sure of that. When that day comes I don't know.

To the rest of you, I've been lurking this thread for awhile and I truly wish you all the best.

Psychiatrists joke that the first X in Xanax is a warning not to use it. The second X is to make sure you absolutely don't use it. They prefer klonopin here - it's less addictive, longer acting, and, as a point of trivia, it takes kind of minty.

If you've had trouble with Benzo addiction, obviously be really fucking careful.
 
Here's a nice list of common pysch meds, with information about side effects, whether they're "activating" or "sedating," and some miscellaneous other notes. There's some focus on dosing for children, but ignore that. This may be a good place to start the discussion with your physician if you feel like you need the drugs to calm you down a bit or perk you up a bit.

http://www.ssw.umich.edu/public/cur...erview_of_Common_Psychotropic_Medications.pdf
 
I'm about to start a 9-5 desk job and I'm going to have a lot less time to do shit. Right now I'm doing martial arts, hitting the gym as much as I can, and taking guitar lessons (been playing guitar my whole life). My grandma just passed away and we were really close. I'm 26 now and the last three years moved by extremely quickly, I feel like I was just 23. Things aren't horrible but at the same time I feel like I'm just doing something wrong. Been with my girlfriend 4 years, we don't do a whole lot exciting. I guess I need new friends or something. I live in a somewhat small boring town, at least the beach is close.
 
People suggesting exercise, avoiding negative thoughts, and going out and trying new things need to understand that their advice is sound - you need to make changes in your life situation to rise out of the depressed state. However, you have got to realize that depression is a disease of the brain. Forget your Cartesian mind/body duality - the "mind" is the result of complex electrical and chemical signalling in the brain. To grossly oversimplify, getting up off the couch to go outside involves activation of the prefrontal cortex, where planning occurs. Information is passed to to the premotor complex, which has a role in planning movement and sending signals to the trunk muscles. The motor cortex has to be activated to execute voluntary movements. You have activation of the hippocampus to orient yourself in space and remember what you were getting up to do. The rest of the limbic system is involved in your motivation and emotional state.

In depression, you can have problems with the signalling in any of these regions, and the propagation of signals between the different brain regions. To understand what this can look like, think about Parkinson's disease. The Parkinsonian patient has lost key dopaminergic inputs to brain regions responsible for voluntary movement (dopamine does all sorts of things in the brain - most neurotransmitters have diverse functions, varying with the timing and location of their release. Dopamine is involved in voluntary movement, paralyzing your body when you sleep so you don't act out your dreams, reward conditioning [a dopaminergic pathway is a common final pathway in drug addictions] among other things). Despite the will to movet= the body, the Parkinsonian patient displays rigidity, slowed movement (bradykinesia), tremor, and impaired balance. The patient wants to make smooth voluntary movements, but lacks the chemical messengers the brain uses to carry out this function.

It helps to think of depression the same way. There are defects in the chemical messengers and neural circuits involved in mood, motivation, memory, appetite, anxiety, sleep, energy/lethargy, irritability, and the impulse to harm of even kill oneself. The specific changes vary between patients and can have genetic, developmental, and acute etiologies.

It's easy to say to the depressed patient, "just get up and do something! Think positive thoughts!" However, the brain of the depressed patient may lack the chemical messengers, pathways, connections, etc. to actually accomplish a simple act like getting motivated to get out of bed, get ready to leave the house, and engage in a relatively simple task. Think of asking a diabetic to "just make more insulin!" It's a little more complicated than that, because the brain is so incredibly complex and there are so many signals and connections, but the analogy is still helpful in understanding why depressed people seem locked into negative thoughts, are seemingly unable to engage in seemingly simple beneficial activities, and may be obsessed with feelings of worthlessness and suicidality. Your brain needs proper signalling to occur for you to carry on the activities of your life. Screw up that signalling and you can get mental illness. It may be nearly impossible to suppress negative thoughts because the depressed brain just keeps sending these signals.

Encouraging the depressed patient to make changes in his or her life, to engage with the world, to exercise, to give thought to the positive aspects of life - these are all good things. However, your thoughts are running on your brain "hardware." You can't think yourself out of depression if the chemical messengers that propagate these thoughts around are out of whack. You have to understand depression as a disease of the brain. We generally talk about mental disorders as diseases of the mind (by definition), but you have to understand that the mind is instantiated in the brain. You can alter your brain circuitry through therapy and medications, but it's rarely as simple as just "thinking happy thoughts." Imagine the extreme case of a brain completely lacking the chemical signals for happy thoughts - dopamine, serotonin, the endogenous opioids, etc. The brain isn't magical - if you deplete the neurotransmitters involved in positive emotions, how do you make your brain produce those emotions? This is why people's mood crashes after they use cocaine - your brain basically dumps its stock of "feel good" neurotransmitters and you feel like shit until you can replenish your stores of dopamine, etc. Your brain can't send messages without the right neurotransmitters.

So yes, encourage your depressed friends to get out and do things, to engage with the world, to seek out positive experiences. But have some compassion - there are neurotransmitters underlying ideas such as willpower. It's not always a personal moral failure if you can't muster the willpower, desire, etc. to make some positive change in your life, or even just to take a simple action like get out of bed and face the outside world. The depressed patient may physically lack adequate neurotransmitter levels, have abnormal distribution of these transmitters, or have problems with the receptors for neurotransmitters involved in mood, motivation, etc. Just as the Parkinsonian patient may lack the dopamine needed to complete a smooth, rapid movement (no matter how much they try to "will" themselves to make the motion), the depressed patient may have a problem regulating the level of the mood regulating transmitter serotonin. No amount of "will power" or kicking oneself in the ass is going to make the depressed patient spring up and undertake a bunch of interventions to improve his or her life. Depression is a complex disease and the treatment can take a great deal of time, effort, medication, therapy, and support from loved ones. The ultimate goal is to rewire your brain, and that's rather hard to do.

Sorry if I've told the "just exercise!" or "get off your ass and do something!" crowds to fuck off, but you've got to understand the complexity, severity, and subtlety of the changes in the brain that can lead t depression. Some depression is probably mainly psychological - the treatment is to learn to think in a slightly different way, but you have to remember that severe depression is a disease of the brain with structural and chemical changes that can be very hard to fix. Often the changes have been reinforced over the period of years, may have underlying genetic factors, and be compounded by psychological problems.

And remember that what gets called "Major Depressive Disorder" is probably best thought of as a family of "Major Depressive Disorders". I read William Styron's classic account of his depression, Darkness Visible: A Memoir of Madness, and was surprised at how different his experience of depression was from my own.

Keep at it, DepressedGAF! Personal stories of overcoming depression can be very powerful, but recognize that all sorts of different symptoms fit under the umbrella of "Major Depressive Disorder(s)." What worked for you may make someone else worse (I got much worse on a Wellbutrin/Celexa combo - others swear by these drugs). And simply saying "get out there and change your whole life!" is much easier said than done, especially when your brain's basic circuitry is a complete mess.

There's always hope, bleak as things may seem at times. If a therapy doesn't work, there are dozens more to try. End you life, on the other hand, and that's that.

Sorry for the long posts. I recognize that "tl:dr" might as well be my middle name, but I sincerely hope that you can find something in all this writing that resonates with you. I'm happy to answer any questions about whatever - the scientific literature, current theories of depression, new therapies, my own journey from severe depression to remission (knock on wood!), books about depression, treatment centers, why Nick Drake's album Pink Moon is one of the great works of art "about" depression ever created, whatever.

Great post. One of the things that pisses me off a bit about depressed people though is those excuses about having mental illness. It feels... too easy sometimes.

Like "sorry I have a brain weakness so that's why I have this behavior, deal with it".
 
The tough love approach is so misguided considering there is no one tougher on a depressed person than they are on themselves. That sleeping_dragon post almost seems like a textbook parody of it.
 
I'm reading posts in this thread for the first time and wondering how the regulars in here deal with users who implicitly or explicitly post about killing themselves? I suppose there's not much to do, other than try to engage with them? I sincerely hope no GAFfers have posted here about killing themselves and then have actually gone through with it.

If you're reading this and having those thoughts, it's OK to keep posting here (there are lots of great responses and users who are willing to talk to strangers about their problems!) but PLEASE seek professional, in-person help from a doctor or therapist. It CAN and WILL get better, and chances are much better if you accept some help. I'm sure this has been said countless times (in fact I've seen posts that say just that) but I felt a sudden compulsion to post.

That quote from the New Yorker article is the truth: “I instantly realized that everything in my life that I’d thought was unfixable was totally fixable—except for having just jumped.”
 
I din't know what to do about suicidal GAFers. There's only so much you can do via posts, PMs, or even emails. I just try to make sure that people know I'm willing to talk and I answer all of my PMs. I'm available and willing to talk. I also try to emphasize that I've been severely depressed, with suicidal ideation. Yet here I am today. I thought my life had nothing to offer me but misery, but here I am, not happy all the time, but with a life that's absolutely worth living.
 
I'm reading posts in this thread for the first time and wondering how the regulars in here deal with users who implicitly or explicitly post about killing themselves? I suppose there's not much to do, other than try to engage with them? I sincerely hope no GAFfers have posted here about killing themselves and then have actually gone through with it.

If you're reading this and having those thoughts, it's OK to keep posting here (there are lots of great responses and users who are willing to talk to strangers about their problems!) but PLEASE seek professional, in-person help from a doctor or therapist. It CAN and WILL get better, and chances are much better if you accept some help. I'm sure this has been said countless times (in fact I've seen posts that say just that) but I felt a sudden compulsion to post.

That quote from the New Yorker article is the truth: “I instantly realized that everything in my life that I’d thought was unfixable was totally fixable—except for having just jumped.”

It's tough, I'm never sure what to do. Some just want attention, or are not in a frame of mind to really listen. Others though could really use a conversation and it would do them a world of good.

Maybe a decent solution would be a new |OT| with resources people can use, and posters who would volunteer to chat with people who need an outlet. It would give support to people who want it.
 
I think I'm done. I had my therapy session today and I don't think they have been working for me. My doctor suggested gastro-bypass surgery for my weight and getting a Cpap machine to help with the apnea. He also suggested I work on my resume and get out of my horrid call center job. I realized that maybe I'm not cut out for life. As I waited for the bus I see people happy walkin with their friends or holding hands with their boyfriend or girlfriend and i sit in misery. This is the way my horrid life will continue. I am dreading working tomorrow to listen to people swear all day at me. Even if I don't go tomorrow there will be the next day and the day after that and the day after day and for what? I'm siting in my dark room now thinking that if this is hell it wont be so bad. There is no love in hell but it's not like it's an option for me now. I don't love myself or the people around me or the life I have. I don't want it. I wish someone deserving would take it from me. I don't know if it's the jetlag and my depression making me think this way but I just want to finish with everything. If anything would have gotten better it would have happened 5 or 10 years ago. It hasn't. I wish I never took this call center job it's taken my life away. I'm going to sit in the dark for a while there really is nothing in life for me. If I was going to end it all I should have done it five years ago or even 10. I wish I could just stop thinking and feeling.
 
I think I'm done. I had my therapy session today and I don't think they have been working for me. My doctor suggested gastro-bypass surgery for my weight and getting a Cpap machine to help with the apnea. He also suggested I work on my resume and get out of my horrid call center job.

why not just start with that?
 
I think I'm done. SNIP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_major_depressive_disorder

I'm sure at some time, often at many times, these people all felt something like what you are going through. The key is to find a way (meds, therapy, or both) to get your brain into a state in which you can have dreams and aspirations again. Normally, people feel like they can do things with their lives, that their dreams are still achievable. When you're in that state, you can make the changes, large and small that will allow you to dig yourself out of the hole you've fallen into. There are plenty of people in this very thread offering to ask a hand to help pull you up.

When I was having suicidal ideations (basically daydreams about death, wishing I would come down with cancer and be given 6 months to live), I made a promise to myself. Before I ended my own life, I would first travel to my favorite place in the world (an area that is somewhat remote, but not really all that difficult to get there.) and see if I could find peace living a simple life there. I don't necessarily recommend running away from your problems (and I couldn't do it now that I have a wife and kids), but it beats ending it all, doesn't it? Before making a final decision to end your life, hike the Appalachian Trail, backpack Europe, get an Amtrack pass and just hop trains to random places. Do some crazy thing you've always wanted to do but couldn't because of "real life." If you're going to end it all, do something amazing first and see what that little bit of life is like.
 
Great post. One of the things that pisses me off a bit about depressed people though is those excuses about having mental illness. It feels... too easy sometimes.

Like "sorry I have a brain weakness so that's why I have this behavior, deal with it".

who are you to judge what is real for people?
"it feels too easy sometimes" ?
Yeah so does making these kind of assumptions that make you look like you're only here to get some cheap attention.
 
oh GAF! i sympathize with you guys so much.

Most of my life i was obese. All i did was play videogames. I didn't know or cared for love because being fat i really didn't think i had much of a choice, who could love me? Even at that age i was depressed.

My senior year in highschool i spend a lot of time with the girl who would end up being my first love. We knew each other before since we were in teh same academy so we had the same classes together but never talked or hung out until the beginning of senior year. She was super sweet and very kind. All year, my little group of friends we were inseperable.

Around the twilight of my senior year one of my closest guy friends and the girl i didn't know i was in love with started dating. It was at this point did i realize yeah i was in love. But there was nothing i could do.

One night me and my FL was talking on the phone and i told her how i felt about her. It was just somethign i had to get out of my chest. The dreaded "i'm sorry ***** i don't share the same feelings for you" was heard and the floodgates open. I dont remember the last time crying prior to that night, but it was probably when i was young and my dad would discipline me for being bad. Anyways, i've cried like i never cried before up to that point.

It was at this point that i had to make a change. Go figure, changing yourself because of a girl. But that was my motivation. At Grad Night the graduating class would spend our last day together at Camelot golfland. My first love got together with one of my best friend. food was provided and It was there when i had my plate ready to get all that pizza and desert and salad that i wanted that i put it down and decided i was goign to be skinny.

Now Counterstrike was all the rage at this time (2002) so most of my hours were spent on a computer over the summer playing videogames of course. But how was i goign to lose weight?

One meal every morning and sit ups and push ups while waiting for the next respawn. I would purposely rush every round in the hopes so that i would die early so i could have more time to do push ups and sit ups

This was my life the summer of 2002 and I went from 215 to 155 over the course of 3-4 months. Thank you counterstrike for getting my mind out of the girl and for helping me to lose weight!

My life totally changed after i lost weight. I got my first job, bought my first car and now i was skinny and healthy.

But not only that, i turned out to be really good looking. It is a funny thing to be ugly all your life and in an instant be good looking. The Ego was never there and for a time i remained the same fat, humble guy that i was before my weightloss on the inside.

Needless to say, i stopped playing videogames. My life consisted of feenin for the weekends to come so i can go party and meet girls.

And meet them i did. Now at this time (18 YO) i was still a virgin. Very innocent. But something happens to you psychologically when you have girls all the time telling you how hot you are and everything seems to be going your way. I was part of a Crunking dance crew and that attracted a lot of girls. It gets to your head and eventually i became a narcissist. I didn't know at the time i was a narcisisst, i didn't know what a narcicist was but looking back i definitely was one. I didn't care for the feelings of others. Hitting and quitting was something i didnt feel bad about and when they didnt give it up i'd just move on to the next. Absolutely no emotional attachment.

That was my life for the next two years until WoW came along. when i was 15 i had my first taste of MMORPGS. Ultima Online was the greatest invention in the history of all of gaming. Even to this day i do reminisce about the times i played that game. So when i heard of a new MMO coming out having to do with the Warcraft Universe, I was in there like swimwear.

I partied so much that the appeal lack its luster and i needed some other form of entertainment, so WoW came right on time.

This was my first taste of videogames since my counterstrike days and i was hooked. The summer of 2004 i worked graveyard as a security guard for an equity office in irvine. It was a solo job so every night i would just be by myself g-riding my security kart around the 3 building complex. It worked out perfect, i could study at work and when i get home i play wow all day.

However, when i wasn't studying, and when i was alone with my thoughts, i began to think about a lot of things.

What was the point of life? Why did i feel so depressed when i was just sitting there on that kart? i began to think about my entire life and what i've been doing. I've come to the realization that everything i ever did was to satisfy myself. Videogames, women, drinking, partying. It was to get my mind out from reality. But what was reality?

20 years old and i was thinking about these things. Depressed about life and wondering what was the purpose of it. Some days i thought of suicide as the best escape. I was in a deplorable state.

One night at work as i was exiting my car and i saw a book behind the passenger seat of my car. I grabbed the book and it turned out to be a bible.

Now, my family went to church when i was younger. It was something that was forced upon me and my brothers, and the only thing i looked forward to it was getting pizza hut when church service was over because pizza hut was right next to the church.

I don't know how it got there. It was just there. So when i saw the bible, something compelled me just to read it. Boredom at work tends to make you do things you never do, and reading the bible turned out to be one of those things.

But as i began to read this book my body began tingling. Something inside me was feeling this exhilaration. You know that excitement you feel when you're about to have sex for the first time with a girl you havent had sex with yet? it was better.

As i was reading i came across things that weighed me down, that made my heart heavy. I stopped reading.

the next day i started to read it again, and everytime i started to feel this heaviness, this tingling all over my body. i stopped reading. i didn't want to deal with this feeling.

Finally, one calm windy night in irvine, i was again reading the bible out of boredom. Now, the way i was reading the bible was the way i read any other book. I started at the new testament and went through all of the 4 gospels of matthew mark luke and john.

So now i was at the book of Acts since that book came after the last gospel of John. I was sitting on the outside front steps of the main equity building and when i finally read this text.

Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.

As soon as i finished reading that text, that calm wind intensified into a gushes of wind. I sat there frozen just looking at the leaves swaying. As soon as the wind calmed, i bowed my head and prayed to God. This is my first time crying since my first love and I cried my eyes out. I dont remember what i said. But that night i acknowledged that there was a God. Every night at work i spent just reading the bible.

Soon though, i fell asleep at the wheel on the 405N on my way home from work and got into a car accident and subsequently quit my job as a security guard. I vowed i would never work Graveyard again. The rest of my days for a while was spent playing WoW.

I had lots of disposable income from saving money from work and was still living with my parents so my days were spent juggling WoW and school. my grades dropped. The grind for Grand Marshal was taking its toll and when i hit LT. Commander i asked myself what is the point of this? And immediately quit and deactivated my account.

At 21 i started hittign up the club scene. A lot of my friends were under 21 so most of the times i was going to 18 and over clubs. i lived in S. California so vegas trips were frequent. Clubbing every weekend.

I was dating a lot but i was of the opinion that relationships wasn't for me. Looking back now, it wasn't that i didn't believe in relationships, i believed in love, but it was fleeting. i was too into myself, cause often times if i was dating a girl and i met another girl that i thought was hotter and was interested in me, i dropped her quick and went to the better looking one. I never liked talking on the phone or tried to get to know these girls.

Life was just one big party. Dropped the E, smoked the weed, went to the raves. All of that.

Eventually, with all the drinking, going out, and not exercising one tiny bit, I got chubby.

i didn't care, life is just trying to fulfill this craving inside you and food happened to be one of those things that made me feel good. the 360 came out, so i was doing that with my pothead friends, spending our days with gears of war adn weed.

But then.... again.... i met this girl. She was one of my homegirl's younger sister. She was pretty, but ive had better looking girls. What made her different that i didn't feel these feelings that i never had when was younger?

History just has a way of repeating itself. My feeligns for her was one sided, but there was one difference. She led me on.

OH what a terrible feeling to be in a one sided love adn to be led on.

She was every bit the kind of person i was when i was skinnier. EVERYTHING. Her egotism, her narcissm, even her personality and mannerisms.

She was the female version of me. I hated her but i loved her.

she didn't know how i felt. I was attracted to people that hurt me, that i couldn't get.

So i lost the weight again and long story short she found out i liked her (i was really in love with her but she didnt know it) and she had mutual feelings and we went on a date.

This date happened a couple of years later after the initial being lead on one sided love.

While we were dating we talked about our past and about love. She didn't believe in love. That love doesn't last. That it isn't real.

She was right in a way. We were both too selfish to love each other. Too selfish for it to be real

At one time in my life, i shared her sentiment. Of course i would, i never had a girlfriend. If i believed in love i would of at the very least had a girlfriend.

But now i did believe in something. Everything she was saying i understood where she was coming from, but i didn't agree anymore.

Someone at work once said i was a hopeless romantic. I googled it, and she was right.

I believed in love even though i never found it. I had this yearning in my soul that couldn't be filled. Not by her, money, videogames, clubbing, drinking, drugs. NOTHING. My selfishness couldn't complete me.

I know now in hindsight, God sent her to me to reveal to me who i was. When i looked at her it was like i was looking into a mirror. I wanted to change. i didn't want to be selfish anymore. I didnt want to hurt anybody anymore. I didn't want to be depressed anymore.

And so, i turned to God. I looked back on that night i prayed to God. How after i prayed this burden that was on my shoulders had lifted from me. How after i prayed, i felt this sense of peace that i had never felt before. I looked back, i asked myself why did i forget about God so fast even after those nights of reading teh bible?

So i started to study about God vigorously. I learned about how God is the very essence of love.

If God is real and he created you, then he knows exactly what you need since he made you.

The very first words of the very first sermon that Jesus gave were this "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

When you realize your spiritual depravity and yearn for something that this world cannot provide, then you will seek Him. So, in a way, it is good that you are depressed.

All my sadness stemmed from things of this world. When i finally gave it all up and never looked back and gave my heart to God, everything in this world had very little meaning and i finally found true happiness through Christ.

God wants you to give it all up. Whats the point of acheiving your life goals, whether it be money, education, power, or fame when all of it ends up in teh dust when you die?

I feel for my fellow members of GAF. We are not different at all. I might not understand what some of you guys are going through but i truly do empathize with you.

I also understand your skepticism when it comes to things like God, but i challenge you to ask him to prove his existence, and he'll be more than happy to reveal himself to you.

Creatures are not born with desires unless satisfaction for these desires exists. A baby feels hunger; well, there is such a thing as food. A duckling wants to swim; well, there is such a thing as water. Men feel sexual desire; well, there is such a thing as sex. If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world. - C.S. Lewis
 
God is only a means to rationalize your time on this world.

World and life is a chaotic mess fighting every tooth and nail for survival. That's what life is, just a big competition.
 
I've never turned to God in times of trouble. In fact, knowing my family's history with Franco and the Catholic Church(My granddad fought with Franco). I've turned way the hell way from it.
 
Now, now. We all reach our own conclusions in life (kind of). If rekindling the belief in a god works for someone, then good for them. Be that as it may, though, I have known depressed people who have turned to God in desperation, but their depression keeps recurring. Whether you find comfort in the belief of a god or goddess or not, just remember that it is not an alternative for seeking help from a professional. For those of us who were raised without any particular religion, though, belief is impossible; it would be as if we asked a Christian to start believing in Odin. Some people find strength in believing in God, and some people find strength in the spiritual freedom of non-belief.
 
Okay, so the random, rambling evangelism was a tad odd, but hey, some people find faith helps them deal with depression. I'd rather not see people say, "Get that God shit out of here." There's certainly room for a conversation about spirituality and depression. There's probably not room for imtehman's style of weird proselytizing (sorry man, but that was a bizarre post), however.

The episode of NPR's "On Being" (formerly "Speaking of Faith") on "The Soul in Depression" is really interesting, even to the non-religious, or the quasi-religious. The interview with Parker Palmer is especially interesting. The middle segment with Anita Barrows is crap, but the first part with Andrew Solomon, author of The Noonday Demon is really good, and not all religious-y.

As a random note, I had a patient today who was a minister with a twenty year history of depression. So that's my counterpoint to the idea that, if you just turn to God, he'll reveal himself and cure your depression. It's not nearly that easy. Also, this guy had metastatic cancer and he was looking for some radiation therapy. He wasn't trying to cure it with prayer.

[Second random note about another patient: if you're thinking about a career in medicine, I have the following three words for you: massively infected labia. I could have gone my whole life without seeing that and been much happier. It will haunt me for a long, long time.]

Finally, "I also understand your skepticism when it comes to things like God, but i challenge you to ask him to prove his existence, and he'll be more than happy to reveal himself to you" strikes me as ridiculous. The whole idea of faith is that God does not, and will not, just appear to you and prove that he exists. I find the concept of faith fascinating, especially as a scientist. But that's another conversation.

And what if you say, "God, I am depressed. Reveal yourself to me!" and boom! Suddenly your labia is the size of a grapefruit, inflamed, and it's discharging unspeakable goo. I mean, if I'm chatting with God, and he decides to spontaneously give me a labia, no matter what size and condition it's in, I'm going to seriously rethink my faith.

Back on topic, I have a nice table with lots of information about which antidepressants are activating or sedating, side effects for the common drugs, drug interactions, how long you should taper off a specific drug before starting a new one, and, crucially, how much Canadian money it'll cost you to take each antidepressant each month (?). I can share it if you send me an email address to send it to. Just don't go distributing it around. I have another list somewhere summarizing the common antidepressants that I can share once I can find it.
 
Okay, so the random, rambling evangelism was a tad odd, but hey, some people find faith helps them deal with depression. I'd rather not see people say, "Get that God shit out of here." There's certainly room for a conversation about spirituality and depression.

I personally find the fact that people try and poison other peoples minds with misinformation disgusting and adds to my disgust at the human race. If it helps people with depression, they will find out themselves without the jehovas witness type door knocking crap.
 
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