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[Yagharek]

I'm confused, why do some people keep saying Bungie is screwed?

Activision seems to have that effect on studios.

 

[Conor 419]

What blows my mind there is to read how Bungie has to fire their website staff to Activision acceptable levels if the game is every in "critical risk" status.

Jesus fucking Christ I had no idea that these contracts were this particular.

They have to be, otherwise law suits can be fucked up completely.

 

[hamchan]

Hey guys, remember when Kotaku Australia called this a year ago?

And remember when NeoGAF had a thread about it?


Apologies can be directed to one NeoGAF user MrSerrels.

People be eating crow now.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

What's especially fascinating to me in regards to Metacritic is that the site assigns the numerical scores for letter grades based on an outright bizarre curve. A C for instance, is considered a 50/100 on Metacritic.

 

[Choc]

 

[bigtroyjon]

Hey guys, remember when Kotaku Australia called this a year ago?

And remember when NeoGAF had a thread about it?


Apologies can be directed to one NeoGAF user MrSerrels.

I'd say this guy pretty much nailed it, reading this contract makes is seem like it was all about the money for Bungie

The story I heard was it was more or less all about money and ego. They figured they could be making a shitload more with a proprietary scifi IP (Halo without the Halo name) than they were with Microsoft, and they were peeved about treated as another developer despite arguably defining the Xbox console with Halo 1/Halo 2 (when the latter was released, Bungie brass began vocally expressing their desires to spinoff). And the success of the 360 was dependent on Halo 3, perhaps the most-anticipated title in the history of gaming, so Bungie had an amazingly strong hand.

But don't they, provided everything works out, get to walk away with a multi million dollar Ip in ten years?

If everything works out, they are probably going to walk away with at least half a billion dollars.

 

[DMeisterJ]

It's sold, not shipped which makes it tougher.

The shipped thing was for Reach.

Oh, yeah, this is gonna be a hurdle for them.

 

[Zeal]

I'm amazed that a studio of Bungie's calibre has to be on such a restrictive contract to develop the game they want to.

This to the point it's lol.

They leave Microsoft because they wanted their 'freedom' and 'identity' back. So...they have more restrictions placed on them then Microsoft originally did, while choosing the absolute most cuthroat publisher in the industry.

Right. Sticking with 343i.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Can you link to the respective section of the contract? $140 million seems a lot, but not altogether unreasonable given they are building a new IP from the ground up (and possibly developing a next-gen engine).

140 million (even if you include the marketing costs) would possibly make it the most expensive console game ever developed. That's unbelievably risky given that this isn't even an established IP. They're just banking on Bungie's name carrying a lot of weight with gamers.

 

[Nirolak]

What blows my mind there is to read how Bungie has to fire their website staff to Activision acceptable levels if the game is every in "critical risk" status.

Jesus fucking Christ I had no idea that these contracts were this particular.

I don't think they want them fired, but the staff count moved on to the main game (either via the same people or by laying off that person and hiring a new one in their place).

Though I guess they could technically satisfy that requirement just by layoffs.

 

[NullPointer]

They have to be, otherwise law suits can be fucked up completely.

I can understand detail in terms of what gets delivered when and at what quality levels - basically any and all inputs and outputs between the two entities. But internal staffing decisions on that level? Guess I'm just naive but its shocking to read.

I don't think they want them fired, but the staff count moved on to the main game (either via the same people or by laying off that person and hiring a new one in their place).

Though I guess they could technically satisfy that requirement just by layoffs.

I wonder if Bungie's janitors ever dabbled in C++.

 

[Muffdraul]

I wish this bombs horribly. Fuck MMOs.

I'm hoping it will finally be the first MMO that I'm able to enjoy. I haven't given one a chance since FFXI about 8 years ago. I imagine this will *not* be a similar experience on virtually any level. I've been a Bungie fan since early 1995 when a co-worker stealth-installed Marathon on my Mac. I loved them for a few years, then they put out Myth which just wasn't my cup of tea and I turned away. I came back to them because of Halo. Can't wait to see how Destiny goes.

 

[Shiggy]

I don't think they want them fired, but the staff count moved on to the main game (either via the same people or by laying off that person and hiring a new one in their place).

Though I guess they could technically satisfy that requirement just by layoffs.

Based on last year's Kotaku reports, we already knew that Bungie treats contractors like shit. So they shouldn't feel uncomfortable with this either.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Four games releasing in 2013, 2015, 2017, and 2019.
-Four expansion packs releasing in 2014, 2016, 2018, and 2020.

I'm still fundamentally struggling with this.

How can a developer release eight games in eight years, all sequels and expansions in the same franchise, and maintain the quality they are known for?

Its not possible, is it? Not even Valve or Retro could pull this off.

 

[ampere]

I'm not sure how to feel about a sci-fi shooter MMO series of games. Although it is Bungie, so I am interested in hearing more.

I'm still fundamentally struggling with this.

How can a developer release eight games in eight years and maintain the quality they are known for?

Its not possible, is it? Not even Valve could pull this off.

Not to mention that it's an MMO or something. Do you have a character that is maintained throughout the 4 games? I'm pretty confused about it.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I still don't understand the 4 MMOs in an almost ten year timespan part.

I could understand if it was one MMO and DLC, but it's.... not?

INot even Valve or Retro could pull this off.

*reactionary Valve-is-God post*

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

I'm still fundamentally struggling with this.

How can a developer release eight games in eight years and maintain the quality they are known for?

Its not possible, is it? Not even Valve or Retro could pull this off.

MMO.

Think of it like wow but you're going to be paying for content patches as dlc and expansions as full games.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm still fundamentally struggling with this.

How can a developer release eight games in eight years and maintain the quality they are known for?

Its not possible, is it? Not even Valve or Retro could pull this off.

Bungie has around 250-300+ staff right now, so I assume they have some level of staggered teams, at least between the expacs and the main games.

 

[Woorloog]

Based on last year's Kotaku reports, we already knew that Bungie treats contractors like shit. So they shouldn't feel uncomfortable with this either.

What?

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

So does this more or less confirm new consoles next year?

 

[Nirolak]

So does this more or less confirm new consoles next year?

Yes, but I think we were at that point already.

 

[MirageDwarf]

So you want Bungie to fail because you don't like the genre of game they're making? k.

I've no sympathy for a company that is aiming CoD like quick annual cash grab at expense of their loyal fans. Quality will not be the same.

And this is just my personal issue but I don't play never-ending costly MMOs. This means no Bungie game for me for next 7-8 yrs at least.

If even studios like Bungie have to agree for reward based on game rankings, this is a shitty deal.

 

[Shiggy]

What?

From the last page:
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2011/02/bungies-destiny-an-update/
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=421988

 

[bangai-o]

I'm still fundamentally struggling with this.

How can a developer release eight games in eight years, all sequels and expansions in the same franchise, and maintain the quality they are known for?

Its not possible, is it? Not even Valve or Retro could pull this off.

lol why is Valva the example? they are the wore example if not Team Ico.

 

[Fezan]

Do Wii games just not exist in your world?

yes but not in developers/publishers

 

[GhaleonEB]

Oh yeah, I completely agree.

Its interesting from a reviewers perspective too. Say they were going to score it 8.9, but understand that a single fraction higher would work towards the good people that made the game getting their money....

Yeah. It's one extra bit of information that will be in some reviewers minds as they settle on that score. And of course, some will tilt the other way.

 

[bigtroyjon]

So does this more or less confirm new consoles next year?

This contract was done before new console plans would have been finalized by Microsoft or Sony. Doesn't really confirm anything other than they fleshed out all scenarios in the contract.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I've no sympathy for a company that is aiming CoD like quick annual cash grab at expense of their loyal fans. Quality will not be the same.

And this is just my personal issue but I don't play never-ending costly MMOs. This means no Bungie game for me for next 7-8 yrs at least.

If even studios like Bungie have to agree for reward based on game rankings, this is a shitty deal.

I highly doubt any subscription, plus I don't get the cash grab thing. A lot of great games have 2 year cycles.

 

[Nirolak]

Oh also, the game is rated Teen/PEGI 16:

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

5 million in 6 months when the video game industry is on a downward slope and your exclusive to one platform? Not a smart idea. I could see if it was HD consoles/PC/720 but 360/720 when a lot of the people that own a 720 being overlap may be quite a bit tougher.

And it's an MMO.

Good luck.

It's Bungie. It will move 5 million in a week.

 

[Satchel]

Not liking the looks of this.

Also, why Mass Effect the game when there's no need to. This could hurt PS4 sales of the game which in turn could hurt Bungie.

Not sure why they'd make the first one Xbox exclusive.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Every company wants to make money because they want to keep making games, shut up.

And it's an MMOFPS on consoles, huge fucking risk IMO.

 

[shinobi602]

Not liking the looks of this.

Also, why Mass Effect the game when there's no need to. This could hurt PS4 sales of the game which in turn could hurt Bungie.

Not sure why they'd make the first one Xbox exclusive.

Microsoft probably paid them a good chunk of change.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Some of the points in the contract seem exceedingly specific and harsh.

And I'll be amazed if they can get that many games + DLC out in 7/8 years while maintaining the quality level Bungie has become known for.

 

[RamzaIsCool]

Aren't they kinda aiming too high. I think they are overestimating how much sellingpower studionames have. Even Nintendo doesn't have the guarentee to sell 5 mil+ of a new IP.

x developer makes CoD = 20mil+ sales
Infinity Ward makes x game = have to be lucky to get 10% of CoD sales.

 

[-PXG-]

I remember saying that Bungie sold their souls to the devil, when they first announced that they partnered with Activision for their new IP.

Looks like I was right. This contract is pretty harsh. So much pressure on them to deliver. I'm not a fan of Activision or their business practices. I don't like MMOs either. Sorry Bungie, I love you, but I just can't. Best of luck though. I hope they can tough it out and pull through the next 8 fucking years.

And yeah, this is a massive leak. I wonder how such a thing even happened. Viral marketing or disgruntled employee?

 

[Kit Airwave]

What's a Bungie?

 

[snoopeasystreet]

Aren't they kinda aiming too high. I think they are overestimating how much sellingpower studionames have. Even Nintendo doesn't have the guarentee to sell 5 mil+ of a new IP.

x developer makes CoD = 20mil+ sales
Infinity Ward makes x game = have to be lucky to get 10% of CoD sales.

Bungie did a pretty good job of putting there name all over the Halo games so that I'm sure fans of halo are at least aware if bungie.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Not liking the looks of this.

Also, why Mass Effect the game when there's no need to. This could hurt PS4 sales of the game which in turn could hurt Bungie.

Not sure why they'd make the first one Xbox exclusive.

It's exclusive simply because they don't want to be locked in to doing a PS3 version that they may not be able to get out in time. The contract specifies what they are required to do, it isn't what they are required not to do.

 

[Darkkn]

I think this project is pretty risky for Bungie and Activision. Halo was a massive success in a kind of partially accidental way and later games like Halo 3 or Reach on their own would not set the world on fire the same way the original game did imo.

Can they capture the magic again? Maybe, but they may have bitten more than what they can chew with dollar signs on their eyes.

Also the 2.5mil metacritic bonus seems really insignificant in the production of this size.

 

[MirageDwarf]

And yeah, this is a massive leak. I wonder how such a thing even happened. Viral marketing or disgruntled employee?

No. It is because of court orders.

 

[Homeboyd]

Oh also, the game is rated Teen/PEGI 16:

"In no event shall a failure to obtain a "Teen" or "PEGI-16" rating or equivalent rating be deemed a breech of this Agreement."

 

[StalkerUKCG]

I'm still fundamentally struggling with this.

How can a developer release eight games in eight years, all sequels and expansions in the same franchise, and maintain the quality they are known for?

Its not possible, is it? Not even Valve or Retro could pull this off.

Why are Valve a company who have a pretty consistent long dev time even mentioned.

We get a new call of duty each year and around 12 multiplayer maps for it.

Let say this new Game is a persistent online world with large player count. You wont need multi-player maps so they can focus half the attention on making the expansion and half on making the sequel, If the sequel is using the same location (persistent world with large game/world changing events each sequel) then the sequel can reuse alot of the pre-existing assets with some upgrades

This is how i see it, World X has 5 factions, you join faction play faction ect, Expansion creates world event (large boss battle/war ect) then the sequel reflects the events of the the expansion so now the world is changed, faction 3 got destroyed remnants have joined faction 2 and 5, next expansion creates resource war, sequel reflects this by adding a new faction who profited enough to become a major power during the resource war.

Each game bringing in a host of new content but the primary ground work already exists.

Also flows with the "comet" name, each comet has a impact on the game which is reflected in the sequel

 

[volturnus]

Hey guys, remember when Kotaku Australia called this a year ago?

And remember when NeoGAF had a thread about it?


Apologies can be directed to one NeoGAF user MrSerrels.

Wow.
And more than apologies should be directed at those who were fired.

Here's Bungie statement at the time:

This evening, Kotaku Australia published a blog entry to their website claiming that Bungie recently terminated as many as thirty contract employees without notice or justification, effectively eliminating all non full time staff at the request of our publisher, Activision-Blizzard.

The claim is false.

Bungie has never been asked to lay off any employees or contract employees by our publisher, Activision-Blizzard, for any reason. The talented professionals who grace our offices day in and day out are the lifeblood of Bungie – our most cherished commodity – and the unsubstantiated rumors posted today are in direct opposition to the culture and values that we believe make Bungie an exceptional place to work, and to call home.

Completely false, eh?

I'm no lawyer, so I can't tell, but isn't this suable? I eman, the reason for contract termination was supposedly performance issues:

Bungie told our agencies that it was “performance related” – but one of our fellow fired-employees was an IT contractor, and showed us an email he received before his account was killed, citing “project sensitivity” and “budgetary concerns from our publisher” budgetary concerns is laughable considering the scraps we were paid.

 

[Curufinwe]

I think it's nice they used game rankings instead of meta critic.

 

[Nirolak]

The game has in-game game masters.

This is presumably like a regular ass MMO in many ways.

 

[Manus]

Oh another FPS? No thanks.

 

[Nirolak]

"In no event shall a failure to obtain a "Teen" or "PEGI-16" rating or equivalent rating be deemed a breech of this Agreement."

I should have said targeted, my bad.

 

[Conor 419]

I'm surprised they didn't go for three year cycles with two expansion packs in between.

 

[-PXG-]

No. It is because of court orders.

Then why don't we see more contracts like these appear? Contracts between devs and publishers are made all the time.