Marvel's The Avengers |OT| (Dir. Joss Whedon) [Spoilers unmarked]

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Thanks for taking the time to break down your thoughts about the film; the depth and detail you put into your post is sincerely appreciated. You've massively helped me to understand the different perspectives most people seem to share with regard to this film. I don't agree with your take on these various elements of the movie, but I finally feel like I can empathize with your position, and make sense of why others dislike the film so much. This is something that has been bothering me for ages, and I feel like I can finally put it to bed.

One of the things I really enjoyed about watching Green Lantern's behind-the-scenes featurettes on the Blu-ray was that I felt like I found the only other people in the world who felt as passionately about the movie as I did. Kind of mind-blowing to think these criticisms didn't come out in test screenings or during the production process, especially since they're universally shared both by long time GL fans and viewers totally new to the franchise. I wonder about all those people who saw the film before it was released, and how many of them were as surprised by the public reaction as I was.

No problem. It was daunting, having to really put so much thought into remembering this movie. I should thank you as well, for refuting some of my less valid complaints about the move using a lot of very reasonable insights that I hadn't considered. You've made me want to watch the movie again sometime, if partly to confirm my own opinions. I approached the film as an uninitiated viewer, and I left believing that Green Lantern wasn't a movie that either the hardcore fan and the non-fan deserved, but I can certainly understand why some would like it. I won't even accuse them of blissful ignorance, there are things about GL that worked (I liked Hector and Sinestro for the most part), but they're ultimately crippled by a litany of problems that seem even more egregious than the stuff I usually am willing to forgive in superhero movies. Thank goodness First Flight came around, I was ready to just brush aside the GL character altogether after the live-action movie, and I believe that that's the greatest offense a live-action superhero can make.

Anyway, so, The Avengers, huh? Fun movie, but has its own problems.
 
Well not really, it still had to do with Venom a bit. Just not as directly as in 616.
You're right, the blood used to make Carnage was the blood Ben Reily took from the lab where the Venom suit came from, right? Or was it an even closer tie than that?

Man I really wanna read that again. So glad I have the HCs.
 
Green Lantern had a billion degrees of potential and it was completely ruined.

Thanks a lot Campbell you fucking idiot old man.
 
To be fair, it seems like they were a lot of hands in the editing of the film.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/green-lantern-5-lessons-hollywood-204697

In contrast, critics pounced on the generic, paint-by-numbers feel of the Lantern movie, which played like dozens of people were in control. And they were. In addition to director Martin Campbell, producer Donald De Line and DC executive Geoff Johns, four separate screenwriters were credited, and insiders say that even Warners execs Jeff Robinov, Greg Silverman and Lynn Harris were heavily involved, especially in the editing stage.
 
Green Lantern had a billion degrees of potential and it was completely ruined.

Thanks a lot Campbell you fucking idiot old man.

We've heard that the theatrical release wasn't his final cut, and I don't think he wanted to be involve any further with the film after that. Can't blame him. The entire thing is a mess.
 
We've heard that the theatrical release wasn't his final cut, and I don't think he wanted to be involve any further with the film after that. Can't blame him. The entire thing is a mess.

I dont think there is a cut of Green Lantern that could make it anything more than slightly below mediocre. Green Lantern had such potential too...
 
We've heard that the theatrical release wasn't his final cut, and I don't think he wanted to be involve any further with the film after that. Can't blame him. The entire thing is a mess.

But what was already filmed was bad enough, there's no cut that could possibly ever save it.
 
I don't think there's one single person you can blame Green Lantern's failure on. Everything about it was botched. Writing, directing, casting, acting, special effects. Even the score felt off, with the Generic Superhero Theme that played every time Ryan Reynolds did something heroic. It didn't seem like anyone had their heart in it.
 
I wasn't implying that the movie could be saved, just that it really is a collective blame. It was all bad. Total mess whether you compare it with the source material, or if you just compared it with other movies which were actually completed properly. It felt like one unfinished hack job of a film with bad editing, poor casting, incoherent script, and just.... yeah. Bad.
 
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So I saw this again yesterday in LieMAX 3D.

A lot of the jokes fell flat the second time around - even Hulk smashing Loki barely got a smile out of my face after seeing the GIF so many times in this thread. Watching it on the LieMAX screen and sound system did give me a newfound appreciation for some of the action scenes and shots - some really nice stuff in here. It's a decent summer blockbuster.

Notes:

The 3D wasn't as terrible as I thought it would be. Can't think of any scenes where it obfuscated anything like some other post-conversions I've seen; obviously, it is still an unwarranted shameless money grab from Marvel Studios/Disney that doesn't add anything but I digress.

The movie filled up the entire LieMAX screen; must be because of the aspect ratio it was shot in? This was a really nice surprise
 
Thanks man, I'm going to check this out tonight.

What can I expect? I'm 28 and loved the Avengers movie, but is this cartoon for little kids or is it well done?

Last night, I actually played an episode late from Season 1 to some friends who haven't seen the cartoon and they surprisingly enjoyed it, knowing them to be more DC animation fanboys. I think The Avengers cartoon is a notch below the DC stuff tbh but it's still pretty entertaining.
 
I don't think there's one single person you can blame Green Lantern's failure on. Everything about it was botched. Writing, directing, casting, acting, special effects. Even the score felt off, with the Generic Superhero Theme that played every time Ryan Reynolds did something heroic. It didn't seem like anyone had their heart in it.

Not sure Reynolds takes on horrible roles like GL and "Deadpool" if he's a big comic book fan.
 
Not Reynolds fault he keeps getting crap scripts.

If the Deadpool movie ever comes to fruition with the current script that's floating around he should be awesome in it, if he's signed on for it of course.
 
Yeah, don't be dissing the Deadpool movie, the script that got leaked was awesome. They could very well fuck it up down the road though.
 
If we're chewing on Green Lantern for a minute, I'll just throw my two cents in:

Movie had only a couple of critical problems. Reynolds was not the right man and couldn't sell the role, and the production design of the film didn't have enough confidence in the source material. The skinsuits were unappealing and unheroic.

The script was not actually that bad; cosmic GL stuff is goofy in the comics, Hal Jordan has never been Batman, etc.

But Reynolds just wasn't right IMO. Wrong on every level, from appearance to emote to grasp of the character.
 
David Hasselhoff mad he got the Terrence Howard treatment
"I didn’t see The Avengers yet," Hasselhoff admitted to Movieline while discussing his appearance — as David Hasselhoff — in the R-rated sequel Piranha 3DD. "I love Sam Jackson, but you know… my Nick Fury was the organic Nick Fury that was written and discussed with Stan Lee before anyone got in there to change it. Nick Fury was written to be tongue-in-cheek, and he had a cigar in his mouth, he was a tough guy — he was cool."

Hasselhoff says he had earned Lee's praise for his turn as Fury, who comes out of retirement in the 1998 film Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. to battle HYDRA. So he was a little miffed to learn the character would be portrayed by someone else — even if that someone was Jackson.

"Stan Lee said, 'You're the ultimate Nick Fury,'" he remembered. "Avi Arad, when they bought it, said, 'Don’t worry, you're going to be the Nick Fury forever,' and they lied. [Pause] But that happens to me all the time. That's when you realize life isn’t fair."

...

Still, Hasselhoff wouldn’t mind finding his way back into the Marvel fold — perhaps in Avengers 2? "I had a blast playing Nick Fury," he said. "And if it ever came back and Nick Fury has a brother — Dick Fury? — I’d be there."
 
"Stan Lee said, 'You're the ultimate Nick Fury,'" he remembered. "Avi Arad, when they bought it, said, 'Don’t worry, you're going to be the Nick Fury forever,' and they lied. [Pause] But that happens to me all the time. That's when you realize life isn’t fair."
Is that supposed to be ironic?
Avengers Nick Fury is literally the ultimate comics Fury. :lol
 
I'm not a gigantic Green Lantern fan, but I've always liked the character and the idea behind him. Most of my exposure to GL was through the JLA cartoons/movies and the First Flight movie, but I went into Green Lantern with moderate expectation. Not too high, but not to low either.

I absolutely hated the movie, and for a number of reasons.

Firstly, I thought that Hal was an asshole, who reminded me of every cocky, arrogant pretty boy that I've ever went to school/worked with. The fact that he is an ace pilot, banging the general's daughter, gets away with insubordination, and STILL gets rewarded with super powers did not set things off on the right foot as an introduction to a character we are supposed to empathize with. The fact that Hal doesn't really grow and change into less of a douchebag by the end of the film doesn't help.

Contrast this with Thor, who starts off as an arrogant, cocky pretty boy, actually gets PUNISHED for it, and then learns to become a better person by the end, and learn some humility and empathy for humans.

Secondly, the villain in GL is more sympathetic than our hero. He may not be perfect, but his desire to be accepted and loved by his father grounds him, and you feel bad for him when he fails. The unrequited attraction he has to Carol(?) is also something many of us have felt in some way in our lives, further sympathizing empathy. He is also given powers, but they, of course, mutate and make him gross, because, you know, he's the bad guy. But all throughout the movie, I wanted him to wreck Green Lantern's shit, because I felt sorry for him. I never once felt sorry for Hal, and just wanted someone to knock that smug grin off of his cocky face.

Thirdly, we kept hearing about how Hal was afraid, but we are never really showing Hal being afraid of anything. He is, in fact, overly confident in everything he does. There is not really any moment of self doubt, uncertainty, or, any hint that perhaps, maybe, just maybe, the hero will fail (despite us knowing that he will, of course, prevail). He doesn't even have a problem mastering his powers. He is just so damn GOOD at everything that the viewer never goes along with the notion that he is struggling with "Fear." And, because of a movie where Fear is the primary theme, we are also never shown a moment where Hal almost succumbs to that Fear (maybe being tempted to take up the yellow ring himself, and almost doing so, before overcoming it).

The constant repetition of that theme while not showing us was grating.

GL is a really cool character, and Hal Jordan, when portrayed in other DC stories comes off as a really good guy, even if he's a bit overly confident. He doesn't fall into douchebag territory. I still like GL, and would love to see him done right in film, but that first attempt was just a poorly executed film, and definitely a poor GL film.

Also, no "space cop" montage sequence was a bummer. It would have been fun to see Hal and the Corps going on patrol across the galaxy. I mean, sector 2814 is pretty damn big...
 
I'd just like to take a moment to say that Good Job Bob seeing this movie again, in IMAX 3D no less, is the most thrilling example of cognitive dissonance in recent human history.
 
I really don't enjoy these meta-discussions and actively try to refrain from partaking in them but I feel like I just have to say that I was fairly low-key before someone called me out for making what they perceived to be one too many negative remarks about 'Avengers'.

I'm not trying to put a spotlight on my posts or become a "forum personality"; you guys are the ones who are doing that.
 
I really don't enjoy these meta-discussions and actively try to refrain from partaking in them but I feel like I just have to say that I was fairly low-key before someone called me out for making what they perceived to be one too many negative remarks about 'Avengers'.
...what, and then you stepped it up?
I'm not trying to put a spotlight on my posts or become a "forum personality"; you guys are the ones who are doing that.
Oh bravo my good man
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I really don't enjoy these meta-discussions and actively try to refrain from partaking in them but I feel like I just have to say that I was fairly low-key before someone called me out for making what they perceived to be one too many negative remarks about 'Avengers'.

I'm not trying to put a spotlight on my posts or become a "forum personality"; you guys are the ones who are doing that.

We are turning you into a star.
 
That's how he is in the comics though.

Asshole in comics is different than asshole in the movies.

Sure, Hal is a bit of an asshole in the comics, but when you see a real person, up on screen, acting like Ryan Reynolds was in the film, it just seems more impactful than reading some word bubbles in a comic book, where you are in control of the inflection and delivery of the line.

I don't think Ryan Reynolds is a likeable asshole.

See Nolan North's Nathan Drake. Drake is an asshole, but he is a likeable asshole.

Nathan Fillion's Malcom Reynolds in Firefly is an asshole, but he is a likeable asshole.

Film GL is just not likeable or empathetic. Which is strange, because Reynold's is normally pretty good at playing the funny, likeable asshole (as much as I hated the Wolverine movie, I thought his Deadpool was pretty good, and funny, and assholish).

I just think GL suffers from poor writing, pacing, casting, and directing. It was a poor movie first, a poor GL movie second.

Anyway, I don't think The Avengers has that problem, and it was just well done, especially given the scope, and how effectively it combined those characters.
 
I wasn't implying that the movie could be saved, just that it really is a collective blame. It was all bad. Total mess whether you compare it with the source material, or if you just compared it with other movies which were actually completed properly. It felt like one unfinished hack job of a film with bad editing, poor casting, incoherent script, and just.... yeah. Bad.

oh i agree, the last 40 mins were just horrible , it was like cut paste...end sweet roll credits. They should've just kept the whole movie in space, trying to bounce hal from Oa to earth and back again ...was just all kinds of wtf. A pure space adventure sci fi movie would've worked much better. And they could've took a little edge off of Hal Jordans assholery.
 
I really don't enjoy these meta-discussions and actively try to refrain from partaking in them but I feel like I just have to say that I was fairly low-key before someone called me out for making what they perceived to be one too many negative remarks about 'Avengers'.

I'm not trying to put a spotlight on my posts or become a "forum personality"; you guys are the ones who are doing that.

If that was true, you wouldn't bring it up out of fucking nowhere in the middle of a page that has nothing to say about you. Nobody asked.
 
WALL OF TEXT
It's still a mystery to me why GL is so reviled by comparison.

That's easy, because it is a terrible movie.

Not much more to it than that. All of the movies you mentioned have better qualities, or areas where they excel, which elevate them above this one, and at the very least, place them into good popcorn movies.

This was nowhere close.
 
I don't understand how it is possible for one person to be so fucking wrong so god damn consistently. Honestly, I don't even know why you're in this thread anymore other than to stir shit up. Your taste in movies is fucking awful if you thought Green Lantern was on the level of any of those Marvel movies.

I don't know about thor or capt america movies, I never watched them as I find those characters as interesting as a cardboard box but Iron Man 2 was pretty shit so I guess GL being on par with it is not that hard.

GL movie biggest problem is that is a movie about INTERGALACTIC police force and yet 90% of the movie is on earth, fuck that noise.

the animated series got it right, 90% of the series is in space.
 
Asshole in comics is different than asshole in the movies.

Sure, Hal is a bit of an asshole in the comics, but when you see a real person, up on screen, acting like Ryan Reynolds was in the film, it just seems more impactful than reading some word bubbles in a comic book, where you are in control of the inflection and delivery of the line.

I don't think Ryan Reynolds is a likeable asshole.

See Nolan North's Nathan Drake. Drake is an asshole, but he is a likeable asshole.

Nathan Fillion's Malcom Reynolds in Firefly is an asshole, but he is a likeable asshole.

Film GL is just not likeable or empathetic. Which is strange, because Reynold's is normally pretty good at playing the funny, likeable asshole (as much as I hated the Wolverine movie, I thought his Deadpool was pretty good, and funny, and assholish).

I just think GL suffers from poor writing, pacing, casting, and directing. It was a poor movie first, a poor GL movie second.

Anyway, I don't think The Avengers has that problem, and it was just well done, especially given the scope, and how effectively it combined those characters.

you're spot on. The movie was ruined by many factors but the most glaring was seeing ryan reynolds insincere earnest face on screen all the time. The guy is completely unlikeabe and needs to stop ruining movies.

Horrible superhero movies with ryan reynolds
blade 3
wolverine
green lantern

Open letter to hollywood. We don't want to see any more of this douche.
 
He had one good line in Blade 3 and I didn't have any problems with him as Deadpool in XO:W

Both of those movies have atrocious scripts.
 
you're spot on. The movie was ruined by many factors but the most glaring was seeing ryan reynolds insincere earnest face on screen all the time. The guy is completely unlikeabe and needs to stop ruining movies.

Horrible superhero movies with ryan reynolds
blade 3
wolverine
green lantern

Open letter to hollywood. We don't want to see any more of this douche.
Fun fact: those movies weren't horrible because Ryan Reynolds was in them.
 
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