Depression
- Thread starter Jea Song
- Start date
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Escape Goat
Member
Chin up, brony Whats got ya down?
im so alone and disgusting and poor and fucking insane and i cant take all of my life
it hurts me so much why cant i stop hurting me
Escape Goat
Member
You should visit a free clinic somewhere in your area. There are a number of government subsidized clinics that you can go to on the cheap. Sounds like you're in a bad place and these people can help you get things back together. Nobody should have to suffer through life feeling the way you do right now. You can change it if you have the will to see it through.
can you think of anything that would help?
sounds like you should be on some heavy medication at this point
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
I'm sorry to bring this up again, but it hasn't stopped bothering me since:
in post #1747 of this topic:
Is this supposed to mean that you are 'not' a blind watchmaker kind of guy?
Because I don't see how a model of interacting objects leading to complexity and emergence is somehow related to a magic trick or even an implied one.
I'm hoping you meant to imply this as an example of something that didn't work as an example, not as throwing out evolution just because you want to be religious.
And yes, I DO feel we need to discuss this in light of the topic of dealing with depression by medication or even more invasive treatment.
in post #1747 of this topic:
Is this supposed to mean that you are 'not' a blind watchmaker kind of guy?
Because I don't see how a model of interacting objects leading to complexity and emergence is somehow related to a magic trick or even an implied one.
I'm hoping you meant to imply this as an example of something that didn't work as an example, not as throwing out evolution just because you want to be religious.
And yes, I DO feel we need to discuss this in light of the topic of dealing with depression by medication or even more invasive treatment.
I'll have to confess that this time I'm not sure what you're saying, either. So let's back up and start over.
1.) I'm a scientist, specifically a biomedical scientist (although I concentrated on other areas of science at different phases of my education). The theory of evolution is the underpinning of modern biological science. I believe there's overwhelming evidence for both macro- and micro-level evolution. I also believe there's overwhelming evidence that the universe is something like 13-14 billion years old.
2.) Everyone I meet seems to assume I'm an atheist and I'm not entirely sure why. I was actually raised Catholic and self-identify as Catholic now. I'm very much a Catholic in the American tradition, meaning I have some serious disagreements with the church (I'm all for female priests, support gay marriage, think contraception is great) but I believe in the big picture stuff - there is a God, Jesus was a real dude who was also God (the idea of the trinity is fascinating), the bible is a mix of accounts of actual events AND parables and stories that are not meant to be read literally. The bible is not a scientific text (the moon does not give off light; why is the germ theory of disease missing? That could have saved an unimaginable number of lives).
3.) I'm all for discussing the role of religion in the treatment of psychiatric conditions - I think you misread me there. I just think that we should not let our personal views on religion in general - like it, hate it, feel indifferent to it - guide our discussion. When you get past that level and look at the larger picture, you'll find people who have turned to religion as part of their recovery from substance abuse, mood disorders, whatever, and have found that conviction helpful. Conversely, religion can contribute to psychiatric disorders (growing up gay in a conservative evangelical setting can do some lasting damage); Some people don't seek out treatment because they believe they can pray away their conditions; and hyper-religiosity can point to specific neurological/psychiatric conditions (which is fascinating to think about).
Religion can be a source of strength for those battling depression, it may not provide much help at all, or it may even make the problem worse. I'll pull some articles from pubmed when I get the chance to see what various studies have found. There's an infamous one about prayer where the group of patient who were prayed for had higher mortality than the group that was not (both groups were told that there may or may not be people praying for them. The prayer was not conducted with or near the patients so they were blinded to which arm of the study they were in), which is kind of funny.
Then again, there are studies showing that any kind of spirituality is a good prognostic factor for recovery from various medical problems. You'll find all sorts of opposing findings in the literature.
In any event, I think it's silly to make a blanket statement about either excluding or including religion/spirituality in a discussion of the treatment of depression or other psychiatric maladies.
4.) My personal views should not dictate how religion is or is not used in psychiatry, bit I'll share them anyway in the interest of full disclosure.
My views continue to grow and change, but I do like the blind watchmaker version of God. God made the universe (not all at once, 6000 years ago, though) gave man free will, and tends not to intervene in our lives, at least in the straight-forward "God, help me make this free-throw" way. We can use science to understand the rules of the world that God created (and then mainly kind of left alone to do its thing), or even how he went about creating it - Big Bang, lighter elements coalescing, planets gradually forming, chemical reactions leading to the formation of biological entities, their gradual evolution, and so on.
I rarely experience any kind of religious "feelings." I appreciate it more on a philosophical level, but there have been a handful of times I've experienced some kind of religious sensation. When I got married, in the church (my wife was not Catholic, I was, and she wanted to do the wedding in a church anyway) I experienced an overwhelming sensation unlike any normal sensation I had ever had. It's hard to describe, but I've had miniature versions of that feeling at various important times (the birth of my son, some funerals), as well as some seemingly unimportant times (reading a passage in a book that really floored me).
Also, admittedly, a big part of my reason for my belief is that it provides comfort to me. I lost two dear friends, both in their early 20s, both unexpectedly (one was randomly murdered and one died in his sleep), and I prefer to think I'll see them again some day, or that they remain somehow present in my life. And actually, the last conversation I ever had with the guy who died in his sleep was about my depression. It's too hard to tell the story succinctly, but his advice to me was really mysterious, and I'm still not sure I totally understand it, but somehow I keep finding new meaning in it.
Anyway, religion has helped me deal with the loss of loved ones, particularly in the case of this guy who died in his sleep at age 23, during the year I was already most affected by my depression. I came very close to ending my own life, but what little faith I have (faith is fascinating, too, and something I think about a lot, especially as I try to reconcile it with being a scientist) helped carry me through.
So there you go - personal feelings and anecdotes about religion and psychiatry ultimately aren't what we need to discuss - we need to look at scientific evidence about religious belief helping/not helping people cope with mental illness. Having said that, I then gave you my own anecdotes about psychiatry and religion.
It's not that I want it both ways, it's that I want to state where I'm coming from, as you kind of asked, while emphasizing that the question isn't about our personal feelings about religion and psychiatry, it's about what kinds of studies have been done on this topic and what have they found. As I said, I'll poke around and see what papers I can find addressing religious belief and mental illness.Did any of this make sense? I'm about to pass out at the keyboard. It has been a long day.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
More than enough to answer the questions / concerns I had. Thank you for the lengthy response.
Depression age yay, feels good to know there's a topic for me. I've been writing a couple of posts but have deleted them since I have a habit of posting while drunk. My short story is I have been depressed for ten or so years, some on medication, some off.
Just had a little set back, I often feel like focusing on work is the best medicine but I just learned my ex had gotten married while I have done nothing these past four years and vacation time is coming up and I can't even feel like I can spend my vacation days with my friends. It's an ugly truth/ feeling to live with. I don't know what to do now honestly. I might call in sick, I need some time off.
I have never really read through this thread, it has just really been some comfort from afar I guess..
Just had a little set back, I often feel like focusing on work is the best medicine but I just learned my ex had gotten married while I have done nothing these past four years and vacation time is coming up and I can't even feel like I can spend my vacation days with my friends. It's an ugly truth/ feeling to live with. I don't know what to do now honestly. I might call in sick, I need some time off.
I have never really read through this thread, it has just really been some comfort from afar I guess..
I forgot to add that I tell my non-Catholic patients that, while I can treat them, they're going to burn in hell for all eternity, so what's the point? But that's such a minor point, I didn't think it would make any difference.
Actually, I know a fantastic doctor, but he's always asking patients if they'd like to pray with him. I find that a bit much. It puts people in a weird situation. If the patients asked him, that would be different, but don't go around pushing religion on your patients in the ER. I guess people generally like it (when he does it, he says), but still...
I'll have to confess that this time I'm not sure what you're saying, either. So let's back up and start over.
1.) I'm a scientist, specifically a biomedical scientist (although I concentrated on other areas of science at different phases of my education). The theory of evolution is the underpinning of modern biological science. I believe there's overwhelming evidence for both macro- and micro-level evolution. I also believe there's overwhelming evidence that the universe is something like 13-14 billion years old.
2.) Everyone I meet seems to assume I'm an atheist and I'm not entirely sure why. I was actually raised Catholic and self-identify as Catholic now. I'm very much a Catholic in the American tradition, meaning I have some serious disagreements with the church (I'm all for female priests, support gay marriage, think contraception is great) but I believe in the big picture stuff - there is a God, Jesus was a real dude who was also God (the idea of the trinity is fascinating), the bible is a mix of accounts of actual events AND parables and stories that are not meant to be read literally. The bible is not a scientific text (the moon does not give off light; why is the germ theory of disease missing? That could have saved an unimaginable number of lives).
3.) I'm all for discussing the role of religion in the treatment of psychiatric conditions - I think you misread me there. I just think that we should not let our personal views on religion in general - like it, hate it, feel indifferent to it - guide our discussion. When you get past that level and look at the larger picture, you'll find people who have turned to religion as part of their recovery from substance abuse, mood disorders, whatever, and have found that conviction helpful. Conversely, religion can contribute to psychiatric disorders (growing up gay in a conservative evangelical setting can do some lasting damage); Some people don't seek out treatment because they believe they can pray away their conditions; and hyper-religiosity can point to specific neurological/psychiatric conditions (which is fascinating to think about).
Religion can be a source of strength for those battling depression, it may not provide much help at all, or it may even make the problem worse. I'll pull some articles from pubmed when I get the chance to see what various studies have found. There's an infamous one about prayer where the group of patient who were prayed for had higher mortality than the group that was not (both groups were told that there may or may not be people praying for them. The prayer was not conducted with or near the patients so they were blinded to which arm of the study they were in), which is kind of funny.
Then again, there are studies showing that any kind of spirituality is a good prognostic factor for recovery from various medical problems. You'll find all sorts of opposing findings in the literature.
In any event, I think it's silly to make a blanket statement about either excluding or including religion/spirituality in a discussion of the treatment of depression or other psychiatric maladies.
4.) My personal views should not dictate how religion is or is not used in psychiatry, bit I'll share them anyway in the interest of full disclosure.
My views continue to grow and change, but I do like the blind watchmaker version of God. God made the universe (not all at once, 6000 years ago, though) gave man free will, and tends not to intervene in our lives, at least in the straight-forward "God, help me make this free-throw" way. We can use science to understand the rules of the world that God created (and then mainly kind of left alone to do its thing), or even how he went about creating it - Big Bang, lighter elements coalescing, planets gradually forming, chemical reactions leading to the formation of biological entities, their gradual evolution, and so on.
I rarely experience any kind of religious "feelings." I appreciate it more on a philosophical level, but there have been a handful of times I've experienced some kind of religious sensation. When I got married, in the church (my wife was not Catholic, I was, and she wanted to do the wedding in a church anyway) I experienced an overwhelming sensation unlike any normal sensation I had ever had. It's hard to describe, but I've had miniature versions of that feeling at various important times (the birth of my son, some funerals), as well as some seemingly unimportant times (reading a passage in a book that really floored me).
Also, admittedly, a big part of my reason for my belief is that it provides comfort to me. I lost two dear friends, both in their early 20s, both unexpectedly (one was randomly murdered and one died in his sleep), and I prefer to think I'll see them again some day, or that they remain somehow present in my life. And actually, the last conversation I ever had with the guy who died in his sleep was about my depression. It's too hard to tell the story succinctly, but his advice to me was really mysterious, and I'm still not sure I totally understand it, but somehow I keep finding new meaning in it.
Anyway, religion has helped me deal with the loss of loved ones, particularly in the case of this guy who died in his sleep at age 23, during the year I was already most affected by my depression. I came very close to ending my own life, but what little faith I have (faith is fascinating, too, and something I think about a lot, especially as I try to reconcile it with being a scientist) helped carry me through.
So there you go - personal feelings and anecdotes about religion and psychiatry ultimately aren't what we need to discuss - we need to look at scientific evidence about religious belief helping/not helping people cope with mental illness. Having said that, I then gave you my own anecdotes about psychiatry and religion.
Did any of this make sense? I'm about to pass out at the keyboard. It has been a long day.
I'm just curious - how did your friend die at such a young age in his sleep?
I don't know. He had been in a major bicycle accident about a month before, with some head trauma. He had recovered but someone told me he had developed a late brain bleed. Someone else said he had an enlarged heart. I didn't ask the family to go into it. Honestly I didn't even think to do so. The fact that he had died mattered so much more than how he had died.
D
Deleted member 81567
Unconfirmed Member
I think I'm starting to get depressed again. I'm getting an urge to cry.
I thought about making a thread for this but since this is on the front page I'll just post it here.
5 years ago I was in a psychiatric hospital for 10 days. I met a lot of good people during my stay but I never kept in contact with any of them even though I planned to at the time. I was manic and I planned to conquer the world when I got out so I guess its understandable.
I got a few peoples phone numbers and names on a notebook I had with me and I decided to look them up online yesterday. Maybe I did it because I've been feeling kind of depressed and was looking to maybe message one of them or maybe just out of curiosity, I'm not really sure.
I couldn't find any of the people I wanted to but one guy put down his first and last name and I wasn't even going to search for him since I didn't like him much. At the time my excuse for not liking him was that I felt he was phoney but looking back on it it was probably because he was a good looking, charismatic young guy and before he checked in I was getting all the attention. Plus I was coming off my mania and everything was starting to looking kind of shitty.
So a quick search of his name turned up nothing but a bunch of random unrelated links. I remembered him and another patient seemed to have been hitting it off good so I put her first name in the search as well.
Well that did the trick. I found his obituary. From August 2007, 3 months after I got out of the hospital.
He's been dead for 5 years and I still feel really shitty at the moment. I hardly even knew the guy and I didn't even like what I did know of him at the time but I kind of feel like we shared a comradery.
I can only guess what he died of but the obituary just says he went to be with God so I think I probably know. He and the female patient were engaged to be married.
Damn
5 years ago I was in a psychiatric hospital for 10 days. I met a lot of good people during my stay but I never kept in contact with any of them even though I planned to at the time. I was manic and I planned to conquer the world when I got out so I guess its understandable.
I got a few peoples phone numbers and names on a notebook I had with me and I decided to look them up online yesterday. Maybe I did it because I've been feeling kind of depressed and was looking to maybe message one of them or maybe just out of curiosity, I'm not really sure.
I couldn't find any of the people I wanted to but one guy put down his first and last name and I wasn't even going to search for him since I didn't like him much. At the time my excuse for not liking him was that I felt he was phoney but looking back on it it was probably because he was a good looking, charismatic young guy and before he checked in I was getting all the attention. Plus I was coming off my mania and everything was starting to looking kind of shitty.
So a quick search of his name turned up nothing but a bunch of random unrelated links. I remembered him and another patient seemed to have been hitting it off good so I put her first name in the search as well.
Well that did the trick. I found his obituary. From August 2007, 3 months after I got out of the hospital.
He's been dead for 5 years and I still feel really shitty at the moment. I hardly even knew the guy and I didn't even like what I did know of him at the time but I kind of feel like we shared a comradery.
I can only guess what he died of but the obituary just says he went to be with God so I think I probably know. He and the female patient were engaged to be married.
Damn
D
Deleted member 81567
Unconfirmed Member
Everything is just feeling like shit lately. My family is poor, might not be getting enough financial aid for school, I've been eating a lot lately and gained some weight, and I basically have no friends. I'd elaborate but maybe I'll do that later.
Yeah. I've been in basically the exact same boat. I'm going through some weird stuff now that I don't feel like airing out online for people to see, especially anybody from real life that knows this is a name I use online. I don't really have any advice. Wish I did and could help. Just try to keep your chin up, focus on even the smallest of positive things, and keep plugging away I guess. Hope you feel better soon.
I have no friends either and I owe about $13,000 to miscellaneous bill collectors.
My 3 "friends" are a brother who bugs the shit out of me, a cousin who wont call me back and a dog who bit me. The dog listens good though and I kind of deserved to be bit so hes the best out of the 3.
I'll be your friend if you want, bro.
D
Deleted member 81567
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks guys. I've been looking at things optimistically but I just randomly broke down today. I feel like shit. I hope things go well for you guys too.
Since middle school I had literally maybe two friends, one of which is my best friend still. He's the only one who I ever saw outside school. When I saw people actually having social lives towards the end of that, I was miserable.
Come high school, I was absolutely miserable. I've been depressed for as long as I could remember but my only salvation here was video games. Importing, playing, etc. And GAF. Then, enter her. I always knew of her through friends of friends but we hit it off. We talked on AIM for hours upon hours. Had so much more in common than we realized and really enjoyed each other. We started dating six months later.
We went through high school together and it was great. I loved every second of growing with her and having a girlfriend. She's beautiful, smart, hard working, witty, and adventurous. She's so ambitious.
But at the same time, we were always just a duo. I had no social life outside of her.
When it came time to go to college, we went together. I made more friends than she did, admittedly, but none of them ever really mattered to me compared to her. My time with her was always more important. I changed a lot. I don't know how exactly. I became bitter. I don't know why or how. I just did. Everything makes me angry inside. I'm resentful towards a lot of things. How much money people have. What grades they get. What kind of family they have. Why can't I make more friends. Why does losing weight come to hard to me. Even, what it would be like to have another girlfriend? I look at other girls and find them attractive, but feel guilty. I love every bit of my girlfriend's personality, especially how accepting she is of my (weird) interests and me of her's. It's my favorite thing about her. I love how she is always willing and has an idea of what to do. And we just have chemistry.
Still, I know a lot about her. Sometimes I wonder what it'd be like to start over and see what someone else is like. Just to talk to, even. And the weird part is, I'm sure I'd choose her over anyone else.
Anyway,
Four years later, I'm still an emotional mess. In far and due need of therapy. We had broken up six months ago (as seen on GAF) but got back together. Since then, I've been a mess of insecurities at random times. It came to a head when I took her out for sushi and wanted her to get really dressed up with tons of makeup and a sexy outfit, and she was just wearing a normal (nice) shirt and jeans. For some reason, like a demon was inside me, I flipped out and berated her. Badly. It was a horrible moment where, in my mind still, this date meant me showing how much I loved her and her showing that to me. I told her that somewhat. I thought she would be more excited.
I called her a horrible name. We fought. Her neighbor heard and told her parents. Her parents told her to break up with me, she deserves better, she needs to have self respect, etc. She didn't want to, but I did for her.
We talked and she confided in me. She said that I often put her opinions down to the point where she agrees with me to avoid argument (even over tv shows or music). She's afraid to express how she feels in fear that I won't agree or won't love her. Multiple things. I'm blaming myself for convincing her all this is true.
So all these things point to emotional abuse in an abusive relationship.
I'm absolutely miserable right now. I feel like my core is missing. I lost my best friend and the love of my life and I do anything about it. Her parents don't want me around her and I love her too much to cause a rift in their relationship. And I want to make this all better so we can be together. She wants it too. I feel guilty because all the things I read make it seem like I've done so much damage, she has stockholm syndrome. At the same time, I'm scared she will move on and I lost her. Again, too controlling. I know I am. I've convinced her not to hang out with people, to not cut her hair, to not wear her nose ring a certain way, a ton of things because of how I WOULD feel if she did those. And I controlled her. If she did those things, she would be happy. I should've been giving support. But I was too selfish.
I wanted her all to myself and she's still willing and that is so fucked up. I want this all fixed. I'm having a mental breakdown and no one around me can see it. They're all telling me to move on and meet new girls and go back to my summer job but I can't even see straight. I feel like a monster realizing what I've done. My depression has gotten even worse. Knowing it's my fault makes the break up even worse. Knowing I have do this and make this decision that hurts me so bad makes it even harder.
I want to die.
Come high school, I was absolutely miserable. I've been depressed for as long as I could remember but my only salvation here was video games. Importing, playing, etc. And GAF. Then, enter her. I always knew of her through friends of friends but we hit it off. We talked on AIM for hours upon hours. Had so much more in common than we realized and really enjoyed each other. We started dating six months later.
We went through high school together and it was great. I loved every second of growing with her and having a girlfriend. She's beautiful, smart, hard working, witty, and adventurous. She's so ambitious.
But at the same time, we were always just a duo. I had no social life outside of her.
When it came time to go to college, we went together. I made more friends than she did, admittedly, but none of them ever really mattered to me compared to her. My time with her was always more important. I changed a lot. I don't know how exactly. I became bitter. I don't know why or how. I just did. Everything makes me angry inside. I'm resentful towards a lot of things. How much money people have. What grades they get. What kind of family they have. Why can't I make more friends. Why does losing weight come to hard to me. Even, what it would be like to have another girlfriend? I look at other girls and find them attractive, but feel guilty. I love every bit of my girlfriend's personality, especially how accepting she is of my (weird) interests and me of her's. It's my favorite thing about her. I love how she is always willing and has an idea of what to do. And we just have chemistry.
Still, I know a lot about her. Sometimes I wonder what it'd be like to start over and see what someone else is like. Just to talk to, even. And the weird part is, I'm sure I'd choose her over anyone else.
Anyway,
Four years later, I'm still an emotional mess. In far and due need of therapy. We had broken up six months ago (as seen on GAF) but got back together. Since then, I've been a mess of insecurities at random times. It came to a head when I took her out for sushi and wanted her to get really dressed up with tons of makeup and a sexy outfit, and she was just wearing a normal (nice) shirt and jeans. For some reason, like a demon was inside me, I flipped out and berated her. Badly. It was a horrible moment where, in my mind still, this date meant me showing how much I loved her and her showing that to me. I told her that somewhat. I thought she would be more excited.
I called her a horrible name. We fought. Her neighbor heard and told her parents. Her parents told her to break up with me, she deserves better, she needs to have self respect, etc. She didn't want to, but I did for her.
We talked and she confided in me. She said that I often put her opinions down to the point where she agrees with me to avoid argument (even over tv shows or music). She's afraid to express how she feels in fear that I won't agree or won't love her. Multiple things. I'm blaming myself for convincing her all this is true.
So all these things point to emotional abuse in an abusive relationship.
I'm absolutely miserable right now. I feel like my core is missing. I lost my best friend and the love of my life and I do anything about it. Her parents don't want me around her and I love her too much to cause a rift in their relationship. And I want to make this all better so we can be together. She wants it too. I feel guilty because all the things I read make it seem like I've done so much damage, she has stockholm syndrome. At the same time, I'm scared she will move on and I lost her. Again, too controlling. I know I am. I've convinced her not to hang out with people, to not cut her hair, to not wear her nose ring a certain way, a ton of things because of how I WOULD feel if she did those. And I controlled her. If she did those things, she would be happy. I should've been giving support. But I was too selfish.
I wanted her all to myself and she's still willing and that is so fucked up. I want this all fixed. I'm having a mental breakdown and no one around me can see it. They're all telling me to move on and meet new girls and go back to my summer job but I can't even see straight. I feel like a monster realizing what I've done. My depression has gotten even worse. Knowing it's my fault makes the break up even worse. Knowing I have do this and make this decision that hurts me so bad makes it even harder.
I want to die.
About three weeks ago I was admitted into inpatient for a week since someone called the police, thinking I was going to hurt myself. I haven't been in one of those places in 8 years.
I kind of wanted to stay, because you always meet interesting people and it keeps your mind off your own shit. When I got home, I spent two full weeks doing nothing but writing a memoir about my time there. I feel even worse than when I was admitted. I hate that it's summer and I'm reminded of all the good memories. I try to sleep during the day so I don't have to see the sun. I've been dealing with this for about eight months now. It's pissing me off that I don't have a relatively painless way out.
I kind of wanted to stay, because you always meet interesting people and it keeps your mind off your own shit. When I got home, I spent two full weeks doing nothing but writing a memoir about my time there. I feel even worse than when I was admitted. I hate that it's summer and I'm reminded of all the good memories. I try to sleep during the day so I don't have to see the sun. I've been dealing with this for about eight months now. It's pissing me off that I don't have a relatively painless way out.
Escape Goat
Member
Yikes. What kind of treatment are you receiving now?
right now? none
ive been on heavy medication, therapy, holiday home for sick people for half of my life
id rather live miserably than be near any of that shit again
Escape Goat
Member
gosh, i wish things were better for you. what did your therapists say?
oh many things, we had lists of things to work on and I dont intend on sharing the details
doesn't help when you cant focus on what the person in front of you is saying
Escape Goat
Member
Well these people are trying to help you. I genuinely wish things were better. i know how life can suck so much you wish you were anybody else. Dont give up man. I wish i could help.
of course they are, we are paying them to try
thanks for the well wishing and all that, but im a lost cause by all means
best to try and help the poor souls like sadsic and neojubei
MaverickHunterX
Member
Feel bad that no one has written you, but some recommendations brother,
If you really want to get back with your gf, you are going to have to make some changes, and make them fast. To be honest, it sounds like you had a good, but somewhat isolated life with your lady. This may be great for you, but kinda shitty for her. Based on your story, it seems like she want to explore/change things up, but for some reason, you seem to be threatened by this. Why? Are you afraid she will change her preference of you as well? Sure, life might not be perfect or end up the way you wanted, but at least you have someone there.
In short,
1. Try to talk to someone to figure out why feel/act the way you do
2. Apologize to your lady, and show her you are willing to take steps to change
3. Apologize to her family, and same as above.
Don't wait on this.
As far as I know, in countries that allow euthanasia, they specifically screen for mental illness. I posted that quote ages ago from the guy who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge - one of the top suicide spots in the world - (paraphrasing) "As I let go of the rail, I realized that everything in my life could be fixed except having just jumped."
Have you thought about ECT, UChip? I keep going on about it, but only because it's fast, effective, and really the go to treatment if other meds and therapies fail. PM me if you want to talk more about it (or ask here) and I can try to help you find a place to have it done.
I agree with ddp - get help sorting out your own feelings, be open with your lady friend that you haven't felt like yourself, you're getting help, you're so sorry you ever hurt her in any way, and apologize to the family. In a situation like this, I'd write a heartfelt letter to her parents. Tell them all the reasons you love their daughter, apologize, explain that you think you might be depressed, that you're getting help, apologize some more. Same with your lady friend - get your thoughts down clearly in wwriting and then follow up by talking to her. Don't make excuses, be very humble, talk about how you're getting help. List everything you like about her. Make it clear that you want to win her back and ask her what would need to change for that to happen.
Don't wait too long, but also make sure you're really getting mental health care before you try to patch things up or you'll do the same shit again.
I do have a friend with a PhD in GENETICS who is a young-Earth creationist, now doing residency in psych at Harvard's big psych center. I did NOT understand how he reconciled all of his beliefs. He's a good guy and a great friend, but I could not always figure him out. He's also staunchly Republican, yet his wife is a social worker. Maybe that doesn't seem so odd, but how can you strongly believe that it's not the government's job to take care of us (his basic position), then marry someone who helps people get help from the government?!
Honestly the contradictions in his life bother me way more than they do him.
Not sure if anybody has posted this yet in here, but check out this book:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0316129445/?tag=neogaf0e-20
The title might sound like your typical self-help book written by someone who thinks he has all the solutions to your problems, or holds the key to happiness, but really doesn't help anything at all...but this is not the case with this one. This guy knows what he's talking about, really someone you can trust from a medical perspective. He knows a lot about health in general and offers a fresh perspective on the topic of managing Depression in a healthy way. He gives a lot of great advice on making some lifestyle modifications that can really help you out with or without medications.
I haven't had a chance to read through this whole thread, but I hope you all have found the help you need. If you haven't, don't give up on it because it's not hopeless. I've been on both sides of this, have seen a lot of people go through it too and it can get really hard sometimes. But no matter how low or hopeless you may feel, seek help. It's there. A lot of people have made seeing a therapist or psychiatrist or being on meds to be such a stigma. Ignore it, because they're just ignorant. It's as much a medical condition as anything else. Sometimes just having somebody neutral like a therapist to talk with is all you need. It might surprise you how much it helps to have that. For me, that was the catalyst that got me through one of the darkest moments in my life (so far).
What many have said is right, that the healing really comes from within you, and you really do most of the work. Counselors, therapists, and medications really just help get you started in the right direction again. And it's better like this. You end up walking away with the mental tools to deal with these things in the future.
So don't think you're alone on this. Not only are there people capable and willing to help you through this, there are so many people who are experiencing something similar, and others who have found a healthy way of getting through it. If anything, check out that book. I hope it helps.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0316129445/?tag=neogaf0e-20
The title might sound like your typical self-help book written by someone who thinks he has all the solutions to your problems, or holds the key to happiness, but really doesn't help anything at all...but this is not the case with this one. This guy knows what he's talking about, really someone you can trust from a medical perspective. He knows a lot about health in general and offers a fresh perspective on the topic of managing Depression in a healthy way. He gives a lot of great advice on making some lifestyle modifications that can really help you out with or without medications.
I haven't had a chance to read through this whole thread, but I hope you all have found the help you need. If you haven't, don't give up on it because it's not hopeless. I've been on both sides of this, have seen a lot of people go through it too and it can get really hard sometimes. But no matter how low or hopeless you may feel, seek help. It's there. A lot of people have made seeing a therapist or psychiatrist or being on meds to be such a stigma. Ignore it, because they're just ignorant. It's as much a medical condition as anything else. Sometimes just having somebody neutral like a therapist to talk with is all you need. It might surprise you how much it helps to have that. For me, that was the catalyst that got me through one of the darkest moments in my life (so far).
What many have said is right, that the healing really comes from within you, and you really do most of the work. Counselors, therapists, and medications really just help get you started in the right direction again. And it's better like this. You end up walking away with the mental tools to deal with these things in the future.
So don't think you're alone on this. Not only are there people capable and willing to help you through this, there are so many people who are experiencing something similar, and others who have found a healthy way of getting through it. If anything, check out that book. I hope it helps.
Let me toss out my offer again as well. I'm happy to listen to people's stories, share my own experience, discuss the latest advances in psychiatry, help people find treatment options, and look up info using the software tools we use in the clinic that aren't available to the public. Just send me a PM. I'm pretty good about responding quickly.
I'm a medical student planning on doing my residency in psychiatry. I've done research in addiction and receptor biology. I also have an impressive family history of depression on both sides of my family. Depression struck me towards the end of my junior year of college, with no clear precipitating events. Later events, including the loss of two friends, both in their twenties, certainly made things worse. I've tried a vast array of antidepressants - tricyclics, SSRIs, SNRIs, as well as Wellbutrin (bupropion) and Remeron (mirtazipine). I've also used benzos for sleep trouble and anxiety.
I've done sort of free-form talk therapy, a touch of old-school slightly post-Freudian analysis, and lots of CBT. I've done an intensive outpatient program for depression and spent a week on a psych ward after a medication change really messed me up. I've never attempted suicide or been clearly suicidal, but there were periods where I really considered it and had passive suicidal ideations ("I hope I have cancer and die").
All in all, I was depressed off and on for a period of almost exactly 10 years. I had two nonconsecutive years that were really bad. I did pretty well on a medication (Nortriptyline, aka "Pamelor", a tricyclic) for about 5 years. Then things got bad and I decided to try something new. Tapering a drug I had been on for 5 years and coming up too fast on a new drug landed me in the hospital. However, on my new drug, Venlafaxine ("Effexor"), I've basically been in near complete remission from depression for over six months. I'm on the minimal therapeutic dose and I'm considering going a little higher as I've slid back a little bit as my life has become exponentially more stressful. The fact that I can manage it at all is a total miracle.
I've gone from severe clinical depression back to more or less my normal life, so I know it's possible. I'm happily married, have a kid I love to death, am doing well in medical school - I live a great life and I can actually enjoy it. I say that because the way I figured out I had depression was that I had a great life and I felt absolutely miserable. It was that disconnect that sent me to the shrink's office.
Anyway, as you can see, I have no problem talking on and on about this stuff. If you're interested in becoming a psychiatrist, or going to medical school, I'm happy to talk about that, too.
Ive heard stories about ECT making things exponentially worse
And im not sure its available in New Zealand
Just wondering, do you believe in the monoamine theory of depression? It seems that antidepressants which are supposed to work based on the monoamine theory actually work in a different way. I found a good blog by an evolutionary psychiatrist that really gets in depth about all kinds of mental disorders:
http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot.com/2011/11/depression-beyond-chemical-imbalance.html
A lot of the posts are just off-the-cuff educated hypothesis/ideas, but it's worth reading.
Really? There are certainly horror stories from the early days of ECT, but I've never heard of ECT making depression worse. The big problem is memory loss, but they've made a lot of progress in reducing that side-effect.
ECT remains basically the best treatment for depression in current clinical practice:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3181773/?tool=pubmed
It is well established that ECT is an effective treatment for major depression, superior to placebo, simulated ECT (anesthesia only), and antidepressant medication.23-26 Of patients with major depression who receive ECT as a first-line treatment, 80% to 90% show significant improvement. Currently, most patients with major depression treated with ECT have failed two or more courses of antidepressant medication. ECT is effective in over half of these patients.10,27
Reading around a bit, ECT is indeed performed in New Zealand. You see the same debate in NZ newspapers as you do everywhere else ECT is used - there are people who were forced to have it 40 or 50 years ago when it was practiced without general anesthesia and muscle paralytics, suffered massive memory loss, and want it banned. Then there are the docs who use ECT who point out that the technique has advanced, it's almost impossible to force someone to get it, they minimize the memory loss, the patients are all put under, etc, etc.
Thanks for the recommendation! I'll check out the blog.
The monoamine theory of depression is a strange beast. I don't think any psychiatrist actually believes it in its simplest form. However, it remains a handy way to discuss mood disorders and the actions of antidepressant medications, both of which are incompletely understood and incredibly complicated.
Here's what's true - serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine all have roles in the regulation of mood. If you take someone who suffers from depression and deplete their serotonin (by depleting tryptophan, the precursor used to make serotonin), if they have not been treated already, their mood will stay the same. If they have been successfully treated, particularly with an SSRI, they will relapse. A healthy person might experience a slight worsening of mood. So serotonin seems important in the action of SSRIs, but it does not regulate mood in a simple way.
There are other theories that may be independent of the actions of monoamines, or may be combined with the monoamine theory. These include the H-P-A axis theory and the hippocampal neurogenesis theory.
It's all hotly debated. My personal opinion is that what we call "Major Depressive Disorder" is actually a family of Major Depressive Disorders. The idea of endogenous vs. exogenous depression makes a lot of sense to me. Basically, endogenous depression is depression generated by your own brain. You have a genetic susceptibility that involves your brain making less serotonin or whatever other chemicals you need to stay happy. Exogenous depression is depression caused by shitty life events - a history of abuse, psychological trauma, your family dying in a tragic zeppelin accident, etc. There's plenty of room for overlap, but, at the extremes, it's not at all clear to me that someone who is just trucking along, has a great life, and suddenly feels like shit for no identifiable reason has the same problem as someone who was abused as a child, was teased and picked on in school, lost a number of family and friends, gets dumped by his long-time girlfriend and feels depressed. Maybe you can treat both problems with the same drugs - there's a final common pathway for mood/depression - but the second guy probably needs some serious therapy, while it may be a waste of time for the first guy.
There are certainly, at the very least, a few different "flavors" of depression. Medically, if your thyroid hormone is low, it can make you depressed. There are also drugs that can make you depressed. Alpha-interferon ("Pegasys") often makes patients EXTREMELY depressed. So the people in those two groups have different physiological problems than the two guys we discussed above.
The monoamine theory is probably at least partly true, in some patients, and it remains the easiest way to try to explain mood disorders to the general public, or even non-psychiatrist doctors. It's certainly not a complete answer, however.
A surprising amount of medicine works like this. Read some of Sándor J. Kovács' (at Wash U) papers about how the heart actually works. It's basically just a pump, right? It turns out it's way more complicated than that, but it works okay to think of it as a simple pump, and that's certainly enough for the general public.
Did that (not) answer your question/bore you to tears?
But what if depression is not your only problem
Surely ECT cant be safe for someone dealing with brain damage and psychosis
MaverickHunterX
Member
Be patient. Take it one step at a time. I know it sounds shitty, but you are gonna to have to prove yourself, and unfortunately, its going to take time.
Look at it this way; it's not too late to set things right. Trust me brother, you aren't completely fucked just yet. What you do now is the deciding factor.
I think I need some way in my own head to take charge of my life and change things for the better. I think part of my problem with depression is bring stuck and seeing others around me move on to bigger and better things. I need to let go of a lot of things. I'm too afraid to look for another job because I fear I will fail, I need to get over that. I was suppose to work on my resume this past weekend but I kept putting it off. Whenever I want to change my mind wants to put it off until whenever. Procrastination is one of my major issues I need to work on. I have more issues but trying to tackle one at a time. I've decided to create a list of things I want to accomplish each day. I am hoping in this month or by next month I will happily post that I have a new less stressful job, then from there think about another goal I can meet. Trying to get things better in my life...
I am going back to the gym. Another goal I want to reach is be under 200 lbs by summer of next year. Currently I am 297lbs. I want to go back to Japan for the spring or summer. What I need to work on isn't just going to the gym but breaking my sugar habit, I tend to each 2 coffee rolls and a breakfast sandwich every morning for work to take the edge off the stress working here.
I am going back to the gym. Another goal I want to reach is be under 200 lbs by summer of next year. Currently I am 297lbs. I want to go back to Japan for the spring or summer. What I need to work on isn't just going to the gym but breaking my sugar habit, I tend to each 2 coffee rolls and a breakfast sandwich every morning for work to take the edge off the stress working here.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
There is a very disturbing relationship between Republican opinions on everything and faulty reasoning. It's not just the difference between "foxes and hedgehogs", to use two metaphoric terms from Dan Gardner's 'Future babble'.
It's like they resolve the choice we all have during times of cognitive dissonance in the favor of traditional narrative, even when that directly contradicts a "true state" in the real world.
Ultimately, it comes down to narrative and sense making, but the weird part is that these extreme cases appear to be largely limited to the US and do not seem to occur as often or as extreme (here) in Europe.
(we have plenty of conspiracy nuts though)
That said, Islam uses the Hadith and consensus amongst religious leaders as an institutional rule for deciding the "truth of things" as well. The same thing biblical literalists do, essentially. I don't know how the method of deciding truth works in Judaism.
(wiki-ing it now)
So it might just be a question of what metaphysical epistemology a (sub)culture values more. That, and the post-70's rise of fundamentalism in many domains (religion, free market ideology, the self as a sacred unit, and so on).
Ultimately though, I feel that the choice should always be in the favor of the "ugly" part, the one that has a much better chance of being true. (and when there is direct evidence of it, probably just IS true)
Which, not quite coincidentally, is why I don't like any religious concept or Aristotelean substance and so on. They are far too easy, too neat, too aesthetically pleasing to be real.
There are plenty of Mensa members who believe weird things as well, though. People who think that their ability to predict (correctly) what the sentence of another person is going to be, is somehow a sign of telepathy. Which we may all have considered at some point, put the notion is of course quite ludicrous when we ask about the missing steps in the statement. (what particle is exchanged between brains to make this work? and so on)
That's good. People can only go so far in helping you. You have to do it, and want it, yourself, to get better. Breaking out of the mindset that you'll be miserable forever is the hardest part. I've done that a few times, and I'm struggling now. It's nice outside, I should be out jogging or reading by the pool, but I tell myself there's no point because I won't enjoy it. I started taking walks, but only after 9PM when it's dark.
My mother told me to make a list, too, for even the smallest things I'd like to get done every day, but I haven't tried it.
If you lived here, I'd help you with your workouts and nutrition. I used to do personal training.
Good to hear man! I along with everyone else is rooting for you!
You can do it!
I edited out my mess of a post from yesterday, since I was in a bad place at the time. My brain is really on a roller coaster at the moment (well to be honest it always is, but especially now), with all my fears spiralling up and down. The biggest being a fear of having a full-time job (main reason I'm unemployed a year after college), and a fear of lacking a life with one (I have other bigger passions than my career choice now, such as music, and I'd hate to not have the chance to try to go somewhere with it in my spare time). Alongside that fear, I'm struggling with self-esteem/confidence issues which certainly doesn't help with things, and it's the reason I've gotten nowhere when it comes to relationships. I've yet to live my adolescence at all, and I feel I won't get the chance to...
Anyway I'm going to try my hardest to turn my life around, and I'm going to do what I want to do in life. Everyone can be successful in life, and I'm aiming to be just that. I'm also going to workout, and thus hopefully improve my self-esteem (I'm not unhealthy, but I just have a very low opinion of myself). I've also passed a huge hurdle in my motivational issues, and applied to some jobs these past couple of days. I will say however that the passion for my career choice (beyond a hobby) has essentially gone, and the final year of college was the reason for this. It was a career choice I've had since I was a young kid, so to lose the dream destroyed the child in myself.
Psychosis and brain damage are separate issues, but it's a great question - should ECT be used in bipolar depression, depression with psychosis, depression secondary to traumatic brain injury (Richard Hammond, of Top Gear fame, developed depression after crashing a jet-powered car), postpartum depression, etc.?
The answer is, obviously, "it depends." As just a blanket statement, modern ECT, performed by people with adequate training, is very safe. The mortality rate is basically equal to that for general anesthesia - ECT itself won't kill you. Memory loss can still be a problem, but they've really made improvements in that area. My patient (you've got to love experiments where n=1!) suffered a bad headache from the first treatment, but pre-medication with Tylenol took care of that. After almost 10 treatments now, there has been no memory loss of either recent events or things from the distant past. She can tell you specific things right up until the anesthetic kicks in - who was in the room, things that were said. It's obviously a best case scenario, but the docs don't seem terribly surprised by it.
For some forms of psychotic depression, there's good evidence for ECT. Likewise, it seems to be a good choice for postpartum depression, but it wouldn't be your first-line choice.
If you have a really specific case to ask about, I'm happy to look into it for you. If it's a personal matter concerning a friend or something, send me a PM.
Otherwise, I'd recommend just diving into the scientific literature yourself! It's way easier than you'd think. Go to Pubmed, a database of biomedical research maintained by the US NIH. Anybody can search it (I'm assuming you can search it from New Zealand. I'd be surprised if it's limited to users from the US. Also, I have family from New Zealand, so Kiwi high five!). For example, to find out about ECT in New Zealand, I just searched for things like "ECT, New Zealand, guidelines." Even a fairly unsophisticated search like that can get you answers. You can read most abstracts for free, and some full articles are free - you'll see an icon on the right with the name of the publisher and some note about it being open access). If you're using a university computer system, they may have subscriptions to some of the publishers, so you can read more articles. If you see an article you really want and you can't access it, just ask and I can see if I can get it. Our library is excellent and has subscriptions to most biomedical journals.
My other secret weapon is "UpToDate" which is like an awesome wikipedia for doctors (except specific doctors are paid to keep articles up to date). For any condition you can name, it provides a short summary of the latest science - pathophysiology, treatment, outcomes. Short-term access isn't too bad - $45 for a month (the articles come in "healthcare professional" and "for the patient" flavors), but a year is $500. So if someone you know is sick and you want to read up on the treatment, prognosis, etc. - it might be worth your money for a month. Otherwise, let me get back on campus where it's provided by the hospital (at what must be some exorbitant rate) and see what they say about ECT and brain damage or psychosis.
Ill have a look, though I don't have much hope in finding anything
You can find stuff like this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22595805
Or this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22330704
I'm guessing you'll need a more specific question to find a satisfactory answer. Something like, "is a 25 year old man, with a five year history of severe depression, with failed trials of drugs x, y, z, a good candidate for ECT? He was in car accident one year ago and suffered severe head trauma, including a, b, and c. He has [this specific damage] in [this part of the brain]. Is ECT still appropriate? Should a specific protocol (e.g. unilateral vs bilateral stimulation) be utilized? What special risks does he face?" Trying to parse that into a pubmed search will be hard.
I'm honestly interested in the question of using ECT in people with head trauma/brain damage/structural changes in the brain. Would you consider ECT is someone like Richard Hammond who developed depression as a result of a brain injury? I'm trying to find time to meet with an ECT specialist to find out more, so I'll ask about people with brain damage, or structural abnormalities in the brain. I'm not sure when I'll set that up, but I'll let you know what I find out. If you do have a more specific question, let me know and I'll try to get you an answer. I'm sure there are all sorts of exclusion criteria, but I'm not sure what they are.
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