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[EliteArtist]

There are way too many pages in here, so it's probably been discussed before, but what are the current thoughts on the xenomorph altar in the vase chamber, and what was that thing on it?

I wish it had more of a contribution to the story. And that glowing green gem right in front of it was tantalizing. Missed opportunity really.

edit: Although, it is interesting that it looked like a classic xeno even when no such thing existed in this film until about that end.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

There are way too many pages in here, so it's probably been discussed before, but what are the current thoughts on the xenomorph altar in the vase chamber, and what was that thing on it?

It was just some alien artwork, bro. They didn't worship them any more than we worship atom bombs.

 

[duckroll]

It was just some alien artwork, bro. They didn't worship them any more than we worship atom bombs.

No, I'm not talking about just the mural. There was something in that part of the room. It's an altar like structure with a crystal of some kind on it. And there's a Xenomorph mural at the wall just next to it. They spent some time specifically showing off that part of the room and drawing attention to it, and it never played any part in the rest of the film.

 

[Dan]

Yanek says pretty much the same thing to Shaw, they were creating weapons (in his opinion) of mass destruction on a random planet, it makes sense that they would cut their losses and run if anything like an outbreak were to happen.

How does he come to that conclusion? He hasn't actually seen the black goo do anything whatsoever. He knows nothing about what David was doing, he doesn't know what happened to the two lost dudes, etc. He just suddenly has a chunk of exposition to deliver in the most obvious way possible.

 

[Speedymanic]

That would be a better analogy if Chernobyl was stocked full of active, self-replciating WMDs on hair-triggers and they had previously sent out invitations to a party that would take place at Chernobyl to a third world country, an invitation they forgot to cancel. And Chernobyl was on an isolated island far away from the USSR's contiguous territory.

Wouldn't it be cool if the messages were left by a rogue group of scientists who were going against protocol and interacting with humans/pretending to be gods?

All but one of those same scientists are killed by something, so no-one really knows they've been leaving messages on Earth.

I doubt it's that or that the writers even had that in mind, but it would be a somewhat interesting twist.

There are way too many pages in here, so it's probably been discussed before, but what are the current thoughts on the xenomorph altar in the vase chamber, and what was that thing on it?

This annoyed me. Why even show something like that if you're not going to revisit it or give the viewer some indication og what it is.

Was it a crystallized alien embryo? maybe alien dna? An alter to their greatest yet most destructive creation?

So damn annoying.

 

[Tookay]

How does he come to that conclusion? He hasn't actually seen the black goo do anything whatsoever. He knows nothing about what David was doing, he doesn't know what happened to the two lost dudes, etc. He just suddenly has a chunk of exposition to deliver in the most obvious way possible.

Exactly, his character is making conclusions he couldn't possibly have arrived at, with the knowledge he has.

 

[Dresden]

I figured it was a control device of sorts. Just something about the layout and its angle in relation to the mural of the xeno on the wall.

Kinda looks like a sundial but touching it caused a reaction, iirc. Perhaps it could be used to trigger the release of the vases.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

No, I'm not talking about just the mural. There was something in that part of the room. It's an altar like structure with a crystal of some kind on it. And there's a Xenomorph mural at the wall just next to it. They spent some time specifically showing off that part of the room and drawing attention to it, and it never played any part in the rest of the film.

Are you talking about the wall-sculpture things of the Xenomorph? Because that's what I was talking about, although the Mural was also just art. I thought it was just showing off cool scenery to be mysterious, and I did think it all looked cool.

Wouldn't it be cool if the messages were left by a rogue group of scientists who were going against protocol and interacting with humans/pretending to be gods?

All but one of those same scientists are killed by something, so no-one really knows they've been leaving messages on Earth.

I doubt it's that or that the writers even had that in mind, but it would be a somewhat interesting twist.

Right, I was positing similar things a bit earlier. I don't have any faith in the writers not to just treat the Engineers like writers always treat precursor alien civilizations, though.

 

[Creamium]

Where is this from? Are there any more scenes like this that didn't make it into the movie?

http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/1646 (includes a dl link for all the art)

http://www.prometheusnews.net/movie/book-hints-at-extra-scenes

And there's this that confirms this scene was filmed as well...

 

[Horse Detective]

Bad ass


I think the zombie dude bro was turning into an Alien. His head was getting longer, his teeth were turning grey, and his eyes were failing apparently

 

[Speedymanic]

How does he come to that conclusion? He hasn't actually seen the black goo do anything whatsoever. He knows nothing about what David was doing, he doesn't know what happened to the two lost dudes, etc. He just suddenly has a chunk of exposition to deliver in the most obvious way possible.

After Fifield attacks.

He makes the connection as almost everything starts after the goo gets out. He asks Shaw when they go looking for Fifield and other guy if the goo was leaking the first time they were in the tomb, it wasn't but when it does start leaking, shit hits the fan.

He doesn't make the connection when it's just Holloway, it only hits him when he sees Fifield.

 

[golem]

Im thinking that the engineer in the beginning of the movie was part of a rogue sect/religion spreading their DNA and life to other worlds (to spread more advanced life forms).

The Engineers on LV-whatever were at a military base targeting worlds polluted by the aforementioned rogue sect.

Earth was next on the list to be exterminated when the outbreak happened (2000 years ago?), thats why it shows up on the star charts and whatnot.

The messages were left by the rogue sect as a map to where the threat to Earth would probably originate from, knowing it is one of their main military bases (assuming that the normal Engineers had no idea which worlds the rogues contaminated), so any of their descendant species that surveyed the world would come to the conclusion that the engineers are hostile to them.

Unfortunately we sent the stupidest most idiotic scientists humanity had to offer to go find out what was going on.

 

[EliteArtist]

Here's my next question, what're worms doing on this planet? Can worms survive in carbon dioxide? There's really no point to them considering the direction they went, but still it's something I noticed.

 

[Creamium]

I think the zombie dude bro was turning into an Alien. His head was getting longer, his teeth were turning grey, and his eyes were failing apparently

could be

 

[Horse Detective]

Here's my next question, what're worms doing on this planet? Can worms survive in carbon dioxide? There's really no point to them considering the direction they went, but still it's something I noticed.

The air was clean in there. Maybe the engineers brought back Earthly critters to experiment on

 

[Chopper]

Bad ass


I think the zombie dude bro was turning into an Alien. His head was getting longer, his teeth were turning grey, and his eyes were failing apparently

That's not how you get an alien. You need a facehugger before you can have an alien.

Creamium, what is that?!

 

[Horse Detective]

That's not how you get an alien. You need a facehugger before you can have an alien.

I thought we concluded that anything the goop touches eventually results in a Xeno variant?

Show of hands everyone?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I thought we concluded that anything the goop touches eventually results in a Xeno variant?

Show of hands everyone?

I fucking hate the goop because it doesn't make sense with the rest of the alien lore, imo.

 

[duckroll]

I thought we concluded that anything the goop touches eventually results in a Xeno variant?

Show of hands everyone?

Doesn't seem to be the case. An Engineer ingesting the goop breaks down his DNA completely instead, and dies to.... give life to the planet in the ocean or something. Maybe.

 

[Chopper]

I thought we concluded that anything the goop touches eventually results in a Xeno variant?

Show of hands everyone?

What about the Infected Engineer they reanimated at the start, and Charlie? One exploded, the other was about to explode. I think the geologist would have done so eventually too.

 

[EliteArtist]

I thought we concluded that anything the goop touches eventually results in a Xeno variant?

Show of hands everyone?

Yep. If something weird happens, the explanation is usually the goop. I just wish they had spent more time to explain what the goop does on a case by case basis because apparently a drop versus massive quantities to the face area do vastly different things.

 

[Horse Detective]

I fucking hate the goop because it doesn't make sense with the rest of the alien lore, imo.

I think it fits perfectly?

The original idea was a perfect organism right? The ideal organism is always a maintained consistency, even if it is made through a different host.

What other Alien lore is there?

I think Ridley nailed this.

 

[Speedymanic]

Right, I was positing similar things a bit earlier. I don't have any faith in the writers not to just treat the Engineers like writers always treat precursor alien civilizations, though.

Agreed. It's a shame really, it would have made for a pretty great twist. One day we'll get a movie where the precursors/advanced civilizations aren't shown to be blood thirsty, mindless dolts.

http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/1646 (includes a dl link for all the art)

http://www.prometheusnews.net/movie/book-hints-at-extra-scenes

And there's this that confirms this scene was filmed as well...

Oh wow, thanks for this.

So a DC is all but confirmed at this point based on that tweet. Brilliant news. There's one thing you can always count on, Ridley's DC are almost always amazing and add so much to his movies.

Kingdom of Heaven, for example, felt a like a completely different movie with the DC.

I wonder what that cut 28mins of footage is...character development with the odd scene to advance the plot?

 

[Chopper]

I fucking hate the goop because it doesn't make sense with the rest of the alien lore, imo.

It would make sense if the worm things had exploded eventually, and there was evidence of facehuggers and dead female Engineers in the dome...

 

[duckroll]

Yep. If something weird happens, the explanation is usually the goop. I just wish they had spent more time to explain what the goop does on a case by case basis because apparently a drop versus massive quantities to the face area do vastly different things.

So the goop is to Proemetheus what the island is to Lost?

 

[EliteArtist]

What about the Infected Engineer they reanimated at the start, and Charlie? One exploded, the other was about to explode. I think the geologist would have done so eventually too.

I don't think the geologist was the same case. He was exposed to much more quantities of that stuff nor did he ingest any of it that we know of. I think the more goo you have in your system the quicker it breaks you down if you take it orally. Whereas Charlie was dying slowly, the Engineer at the beginning pretty much crumbled away instantly because of how much he drank.

 

[Chopper]

I don't think the geologist was the same case. He was exposed to much more quantities of that stuff nor did he ingest any of it that we know of. I think the more goo you have in your system the quicker it breaks you down if you take it orally. Whereas Charlie was dying slowly, the Engineer at the beginning pretty much crumbled away instantly because of how much he drank.

Okay. So, if there were xenomorphs in the dome previously, that means an Engineer would have had to drink a bit of goo before impregnating a female one. Makes it seem even less plausible to me.

 

[Horse Detective]

imo,


The "Black matter" (more badass), is the best explanation for anything that happens in the Alien Universe, and even makes things like the Queen make more sense.


Think about it. It is the starting point for an organism. The eggs are even metal vases from the beginning. The Matter is like an empty canvas for an unlimited range of biological weapons, all relating at the core to the xenomorphs

 

[storafötter]

Exactly, the problem with the movie has nothing to do with the plot, it has everything to do with the characters, the script, the dialogue, etc. It's really the writing that is complete shit. But Scott should have been able to easily pick up on this. It was of the caliber of a typical low-budget summer blockbuster movie in terms of writing, sometimes even worst.

The plot itself is not a problem, other than being heavy with few clarifications.

I agree with you there. The plot could have worked well if it was not for the terrible writing.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I think it fits perfectly?

The original idea was a perfect organism right? The ideal organism is always a maintained consistency, even if it is made through a different host.

It's not perfect though, except in its little niche of being a rapidly-reproducing horror movie antagonist.

The reason I say it doesn't seem to fit is that it's properties are confusing and ill-defined. When the guy at the start drinks it he disintegrates. When it leaks out and pools together, it creates snakes for some reason (were they supposed to be mutated worms?). When a character swallows a bit of it he turns into a zombie. When the same guy has sex with his girlfriend prior to complete zombification, it creates a japanese porn-star.

WHAT IS GOING ON? It's much more straight-forwards in Alien/Aliens. There are eggs. They impregnate people. Monsters pop out of their stomachs.

 

[Yuripaw]

I was talking about this movie at length today with a friend of mine at work. I don't know if this has been touched upon, but one issue my friend brought up about this movie is why did a giant facehugger grow inside Shaw.

I think the xenomorphs are basically the perfection of what that Alien goo/black oil can become. Everything we see is this movie is a possible mutation from the mixture of the alien dna and the host dna. The worm thing that kills the biologist is basically a mutation of the maggots/worms that start growing inside the room when they changed the environment by opening the door. Who knows what would've happened to Charlie if he hadn't been killed.

Anyway, my friend brought up the point that facehuggers only come from eggs...and he thought it didn't make any sense for that to have been growing inside Shaw like it did. The thought occurred to me that this facehugger did hatch from an egg...it hatched from her egg because she was impregnated, that was how she was infected in this movie. The manner in which it was created was much different than any previous facehugger we had seen, so it was a weird mutated version of it.

 

[Chopper]

imo,


The "Black matter" (more badass), is the best explanation for anything that happens in the Alien Universe, and even makes things like the Queen make more sense.


Think about it. It is the starting point for an organism. The eggs are even metal vases from the beginning. The Matter is like an empty canvas for an unlimited range of biological weapons, all relating at the core to the xenomorphs

It's a fine plot device, indeed. But if there if there is no logic attached to it, the whole film might as well be set in a magic fairyland.

 

[Dan]

After Fifield attacks.

He makes the connection as almost everything starts after the goo gets out. He asks Shaw when they go looking for Fifield and other guy if the goo was leaking the first time they were in the tomb, it wasn't but when it does start leaking, shit hits the fan.

He doesn't make the connection when it's just Holloway, it only hits him when he sees Fifield.

So he got "weapons of mass destruction" and military installations from seeing some black goo on some vases, seeing a crew member dead and another crew member mutated and going on a killing spree? Yeah, I'm not buying that.

 

[Horse Detective]

I was talking about this movie at length today with a friend of mine at work. I don't know if this has been touched upon, but one issue my friend brought up about this movie is why did a giant facehugger grow inside Shaw.

I think the xenomorphs are basically the perfection of what that Alien goo/black oil can become. Everything we see is this movie is a possible mutation from the mixture of the alien dna and the host dna. The worm thing that kills the biologist is basically a mutation of the maggots/worms that start growing inside the room when they changed the environment by opening the door. Who knows what would've happened to Charlie if he hadn't been killed.

Anyway, my friend brought up the point that facehuggers only come from eggs...and he thought it didn't make any sense for that to have been growing inside Shaw like it did. The thought occurred to me that this facehugger did hatch from an egg...it hatched from her egg because she was impregnated, that was how she was infected in this movie. The manner in which it was created was much different than any previous facehugger we had seen, so it was a weird mutated version of it.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Though I don't agree with there being a "perfect" version of the variants. They are all unique in that they fit in whatever situation they are placed.

The snakes never evolved past their state

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

So he got "weapons of mass destruction" and military installations from seeing some black goo on some vases, seeing a crew member dead and another crew member mutated and going on a killing spree? Yeah, I'm not buying that.

There was also the fact that the entire facility got killed by the same shit, and they were super-advanced aliens. At minimum, it would be the equivalent of chemical weapon stockpiles, and at worst, its a self-replicating bioweapon. This is just based on what he knows.

 

[duckroll]

I was talking about this movie at length today with a friend of mine at work. I don't know if this has been touched upon, but one issue my friend brought up about this movie is why did a giant facehugger grow inside Shaw.

I think the xenomorphs are basically the perfection of what that Alien goo/black oil can become. Everything we see is this movie is a possible mutation from the mixture of the alien dna and the host dna. The worm thing that kills the biologist is basically a mutation of the maggots/worms that start growing inside the room when they changed the environment by opening the door. Who knows what would've happened to Charlie if he hadn't been killed.

Anyway, my friend brought up the point that facehuggers only come from eggs...and he thought it didn't make any sense for that to have been growing inside Shaw like it did. The thought occurred to me that this facehugger did hatch from an egg...it hatched from her egg because she was impregnated, that was how she was infected in this movie. The manner in which it was created was much different than any previous facehugger we had seen, so it was a weird mutated version of it.

But Shaw is infertile. That's actually a plot point they focused on in one of her scenes.

 

[Horse Detective]

But Shaw is infertile. That's actually a plot point they focused on in one of her scenes.

I think somewhere along the development process in the hours, the organism was able to stop itself from trying to develop into a chestburster, since it obviously could not receive human traits.

Its like the life cycle works in steps. You never receive an upright Alien until a healthy large mammal is introduced.

 

[Creamium]

Creamium, what is that?!

Some fan art, already made in march weirdly enough (http://www.facebook.com/Timswerk)

 

[EliCash]

I'm going to see this again I think, I want a sequel. It's had decent critical reception and seems to be doing pretty well so I'm hopeful. I overheard a couple on the street who were walking their dog talking about how they had just seen "the new Alien film" to a friend, I think Scott has to accept that people will always treat it as an Alien film and if there's to be a sequel then it has to get closer to Alien. That's why people went to see it.

Just as long as we don't get Engineers explaining why they hate us as people are calling for. In Shaw and David there are two good (potentially good?) characters, we have some sort of proto-xeno morph and the LV-whatever that Alien took place on. Keep the Engineers as a back drop and a mystery and give us more space horror with missing link xenos or whatever. The new design was fucking cool. Travelling to the engineer homeworld for answers would be a wrong move in my opinion, unless that's the premise and what we find there is completely different to what Shaw was hoping for.

From a creator stand point (or any stand point for that matter), it would be pretty easy to hate us so that's a non issue. We have to accept that a lot of the questions raised in Prometheus should be left as questions because we won't get any good answers. Visually, the film is more than I could have hoped for. A new writer on board and Scott at the helm again and there would be a lot to explore. It would just have to be explored in a more subtle way.

The original space jockey scene in Alien is still a better example of how to induce mystery than anything in Prometheus, and I think that if there were to be a sequel then it would have to be more of a direct prequel to Alien rather than a sequel to Prometheus, if that makes sense. I know by definition that's what I would be, but I mean that it has to attach itself to Alien more directly and in doing so detach itself from the problems of Prometheus.

At the very least Prometheus has put mystery back into a dead franchise and was visually a step in the right direction for sci-fi movies. Focus on the good parts and move forward. I just want more, and based on opinions here - both negative and positive - so do a lot of people.

 

[Dan]

There was also the fact that the entire facility got killed by the same shit, and they were super-advanced aliens. At minimum, it would be the equivalent of chemical weapon stockpiles, and at worst, its a self-replicating bioweapon. This is just based on what he knows.

Nah, they never really knew anything about how the Engineers died. All they knew was they had died, and spent some time running around the facility. What evidence had he seen that would make him assume the Engineers died the same way as his other crew members? I don't recall anything like that. He's making huge assumptions.

 

[golem]

Whats the deal with that burned to a crisp guy coming back alive and wrecking shit anyways?

Can someone list all the effects the goo does in the movie?

 

[Horse Detective]

Whats the deal with that burned to a crisp guy coming back alive and wrecking shit anyways?

My working theory is that the organism in him is capable of reanimating the host if it is not damaged too bad.

I am also thinking he was turning into an Alien.

could be

 

[BuddyJoeHooker]

Whats the deal with that burned to a crisp guy coming back alive and wrecking shit anyways?

Can someone list all the effects the goo does in the movie?

This took me by surprise too but that was actually Fifield or the Geologist that got acid on his face.

 

[Dresden]

Whats the deal with that burned to a crisp guy coming back alive and wrecking shit anyways?

Can someone list all the effects the goo does in the movie?

That was the dumbass geologist, not the BBQ boy.

 

[EliteArtist]

Whats the deal with that burned to a crisp guy coming back alive and wrecking shit anyways?

Can someone list all the effects the goo does in the movie?

Are you talking about Charlie or the Geologist? Because the geologist never really "died" until he was taken out by the captain. The only guy who died burned to a crisp was charlie and that wasn't him wrecking shit. It was the geologist.

Just clarifying.

Edit: and beaten.

 

[Horse Detective]

This took me by surprise too but that was actually Fifield or the Geologist that got acid on his face.

 

[golem]

This took me by surprise too but that was actually Fifield or the Geologist that got acid on his face.

Oh, no shit?

 

[Speedymanic]

So he got "weapons of mass destruction" and military installations from seeing some black goo on some vases, seeing a crew member dead and another crew member mutated and going on a killing spree? Yeah, I'm not buying that.

Yeah, it's not properly explained but the WoMD thing can be explained based on his viewing the number of vases, the pictures of all the dead engineers and what it does to a human (Fifield). So him claiming they are WoMD is somewhat plausible.

It being a military installation. It's not all that surprising him thinking it's a military base. It probably doesn't occur to him that scientists (advanced species or not) would create something like the goo to help seed life on planets. I mean, how could be possibly know? His only experience of it is infected and mutating humans.

Anyway, can anyone translate this? (its hardly legible, so no worries if it's not possible)

And this is pretty cool, shame they changed the design....

Is it just me or does the squidhugger look much smaller here?

Should have kept it smaller. It wouldn't have had been a hard sell, small but incredibly powerful.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Nah, they never really knew anything about how the Engineers died. All they knew was they had died, and spent some time running around the facility. What evidence had he seen that would make him assume the Engineers died the same way as his other crew members? I don't recall anything like that. He's making huge assumptions.

What would you have him do? Send in a coroner to find out if the freaky monster juice / associated actual-monsters is what killed the 2000 year old corpses inside the isolated outpost full of the stuff? The sheer scale of the container rooms means they were stockpiling it, and the leap to "this is some kind of military outpost" is extremely small and highly justified. Even if it wasn't military ordinarily, it was definitely hosting a buttload of weapons when the inhabitants got killed.

 

[Truant]

My take on the wallpainting is that the Xeno is some sort of final form for the goo. Maybe the Engineers worshipped the Xenomorphs in some form.