PROMETHEUS UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD!
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a Master Ninja
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Just saw the movie, had lots of questions, but this post answered all of them:
The whole time I thought it was supposed to be the same planet.
FreedomFrisbee
Member
Just sayin that there are a lot of things in the movie that you might think were CG, but werent. Like squid thing at the end? And the Xeno? Both models. The only thing that might have been CG in the abortion was the cutting and parting. And that's just a maybe, seeing as everything else in that scene was actually made.
Look for scans of the artbook.
Max woulda been awesome.
Ether_Snake
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What does he say?
I'm sure it will indicate that Weyland has known about what he is looking for in Prometheus since way back when he was younger.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
You didn't have a problem with the very unrealistic/unbelievable manner in which people acted/reacted to situations?
CartridgeBlower
Member
That supposed fight with Noomi and the Engineer should have been in the movie, at least SOME version of it.
I get that having Noomi hold her own against one of these beasts with just an axe might have diminished his strength, but FUCK -- find another way to do it! The audience needs that catharsis! It felt SO ANTI-CLIMACTIC without it. She just pushes a button and -- BAM! -- the fight is over because of deus ex machina squid.
Did it diminish the xenomorph's strength in the original Alien when Ripley went toe-to-toe with it? NO! Because they found clever ways for them to interact and fight. Why not just reshoot that scene with a new angle instead of scrap it altogether? Infuriating and down right lazy...like this entire fucking movie!
I get that having Noomi hold her own against one of these beasts with just an axe might have diminished his strength, but FUCK -- find another way to do it! The audience needs that catharsis! It felt SO ANTI-CLIMACTIC without it. She just pushes a button and -- BAM! -- the fight is over because of deus ex machina squid.
Did it diminish the xenomorph's strength in the original Alien when Ripley went toe-to-toe with it? NO! Because they found clever ways for them to interact and fight. Why not just reshoot that scene with a new angle instead of scrap it altogether? Infuriating and down right lazy...like this entire fucking movie!
I hate this Lindelof person.
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
He says "I am a law only for my kind, I am no law for all"
Friedrich Nietzsche - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
I can't make sense of it.
I'm sure there was another interview somewhere where they said they edited it that way to avoid drawing direct comparison with Ripley's similar scene in Alien. I kinda agree with that sentiment, tbh.
Ether_Snake
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((((((The first act was great, it got to shit after the infection. Well what do you know, in Spaihts' version the infection would have been from a face-hugger coming out of an egg...........
The underlined part clearly shows where things got screwed. He tried to "remove" the Alien-y part, and came up with "wat??" parts instead.
Even the Weyland parts sound so much better. It makes Weyland a "creator of worlds", playing God.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
"Why was the script written the way it was? I dunno, I'm just the writer."
Ether_Snake
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Oh, nice! It might be him repeating a line that relates to an alien communication he received from that moon. It could be the message itself, or an interpretation of it. It would fit well coming from an engineer. It means, I think, "order for my people, chaos for all others".
Ether_Snake
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No, the design is an homage to Giger, it doesn't mean it has no meaning of course. Just that when thinking about the design, they felt making it an homage to Giger was cool.
The biggest problem was David. He seems to show resentment towards his creators, he appears to be gaining autonomy and acting manipulative. He infects Holloway and somehow knows that he will impregnate Shaw with a space squid. He suggests that he wants Weyland/humanity to die "doesn't every child want their parents to die?" but then he helps Weyland ask for the secret to immortality and then is shocked when his head gets ripped off. Then when Shaw wants to go find out why her creators are displeased with them, David doesn't understand. That was his entire character until that point and suddenly he's back to being just a subservient android that has no understanding of emotion.
How rushed they were bugged me. I mean, they just got there and after a couple of hours of looking on the first day they are ready to call the mission a bust. David is in such a hurry to experiment with the goo that he infects the lead scientist (maybe he thought it was a good choice since that scientist was dumb enough to take off his helmet on an alien planet without checking for airborn diseases and stuff. They were really bad scientists.
How rushed they were bugged me. I mean, they just got there and after a couple of hours of looking on the first day they are ready to call the mission a bust. David is in such a hurry to experiment with the goo that he infects the lead scientist (maybe he thought it was a good choice since that scientist was dumb enough to take off his helmet on an alien planet without checking for airborn diseases and stuff. They were really bad scientists.
Ether_Snake
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Zoramon089
Banned
I don't think you're using that term correctly...
Sure, but the fact those six dots are exactly identical in all those paintings, and apparently so precisely drawn you could actually locate the one far away place in space they're designating...
I mean, that's a bit like the difference between me telling you "I'm from [town name]", and actually going "I'm from [complete address, longitude and latitude, best itinerary, helpful landmarks]".
CartridgeBlower
Member
Pretty sure I am...
That squid is convenient for all the wrong reasons, and is the definition of a 'lucky break' for our main character.
No one questions its existence the entire film. It grows bigger and stronger than the Engineer. It overpowers it with ease. It only attacks the Engineer.
Not to mention, the fight happens right outside the room that's housing it. Did Shaw know it would do what it did? She had no fucking clue what it was or what it would do.
Not really. It didn't come from nowhere, it came from a ... followable.. sequence of events within the story.
Deus ex machina is when it literally comes out of nowhere. The original god in the machine was literally an actor playing one of the gods being lowered/raised to the stage by a machine and setting everything right because they say so.
It may not be a very good plot device, but it's not really a deus ex machina. I think you could make a better argument for the Engineer himself being one, really.
[edit for edit]: It doesn't mean coincidence, nor does it mean "bad coincidence". Those may or may not be bad things but they are not god in the machine.
CartridgeBlower
Member
I know the history of the phrase. Thanks, though.
And no matter how literal your interpretation of it, that act in the movie is still close enough to be called one.
Are we really at the point in this thread where some people are so frustrated with this movie that we are arguing semantics to this degree?
Well, it is kinda remarkable how, after all that, the squid is still in that room, still alive, and now gigantic...
Again, that's not deus ex though. The worms got gigantic. Hell, the xenomorph in Alien got gigantic and it didn't even eat the cat.
Ether_Snake
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From reading what Spaihts script was supposedly about, we can imagine that it went like this:
1- After Weyland finds out about the planet, is like "hey go there it must be paradise, terraform it or bring life back, whatever".
2- They get in the temple. Go in the tomb.
3- Some get lost after freaking out and running away after seeing the eggs, others leave with helmet head, David brings one of the eggs inside. It didn't react to him cause he's not human.
4- Armed crew/Weyland guards go to look for lost guys.
5- Lost guys found dead, chest bursted. People get face hugged.
6- Shaw, who stayed behind maybe to study the helmet head, gets forcefully impregnated by David's pet face-hugger, with help of on board Weyland Co. security staff.
7- Someone/people manage to save her or whatever, gets the thing out of her, maybe like in the movie.
8- David runs away or something.
9- Shaw and buddies go after him, into the temple. Holy shit, xenomorphs!!
10- ???
11- TOO ALIEN, LOST-IT LINDY!
1- After Weyland finds out about the planet, is like "hey go there it must be paradise, terraform it or bring life back, whatever".
2- They get in the temple. Go in the tomb.
3- Some get lost after freaking out and running away after seeing the eggs, others leave with helmet head, David brings one of the eggs inside. It didn't react to him cause he's not human.
4- Armed crew/Weyland guards go to look for lost guys.
5- Lost guys found dead, chest bursted. People get face hugged.
6- Shaw, who stayed behind maybe to study the helmet head, gets forcefully impregnated by David's pet face-hugger, with help of on board Weyland Co. security staff.
7- Someone/people manage to save her or whatever, gets the thing out of her, maybe like in the movie.
8- David runs away or something.
9- Shaw and buddies go after him, into the temple. Holy shit, xenomorphs!!
10- ???
11- TOO ALIEN, LOST-IT LINDY!
Count Dookkake
Member
Squidy does come from a machine, though. Might be a little joke.
The fact that there were more Juggernauts (the engineer ships) not being revealed until it looked like Liz was absolutely done for was a bit of a deus ex machina. But I guess it could kind of been inferred from the start seeing that there was more than one mound visible when they landed. Kind of.
Also, the name of the proto-xenomorph is the Deacon. In the concept art it was still clearly a progenitor of the xenomorph we know and love, but it didn't have a visible mouth or extending jaws.
What else... oh, according to the art book Fifield was halfway mutated toward becoming a Deacon when he attacked the ship. No explanation on just how that process worked.
Oh yeah, one other thing - the reason they put a hoodie on Idris Elba when he set the Christmas tree up on the billiard table. In the concept art they drew up the captain doing that except he was clearly supposed to resemble Jesus, with the hoodie resembling the long hair of the westernized image of Christ. So that.
Also, the name of the proto-xenomorph is the Deacon. In the concept art it was still clearly a progenitor of the xenomorph we know and love, but it didn't have a visible mouth or extending jaws.
What else... oh, according to the art book Fifield was halfway mutated toward becoming a Deacon when he attacked the ship. No explanation on just how that process worked.
Oh yeah, one other thing - the reason they put a hoodie on Idris Elba when he set the Christmas tree up on the billiard table. In the concept art they drew up the captain doing that except he was clearly supposed to resemble Jesus, with the hoodie resembling the long hair of the westernized image of Christ. So that.
CartridgeBlower
Member
Oh how I wish this movie was that clever.
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
Would have been as generic as AvP. Prometheus tried to aspire to birth of the world and got lost with black goo. I still enjoyed it.
This is somewhat unclear, especially considering they called the dots a "galactic system" (wut? what are the dots, then?), and said the "system happened to have a sun" (wut? what are the dots, then?).
If I were to try and make some sense of the whole thing, I'd say the dots were stars, and they just picked the one star that looked the most like ours, then focused on a moon of that system that seemed capable of sustaining life (LV-223). Not that I think it's all that clever, but based on the movie...
Something I was wondering - perhaps LV-223 is Eden. And paradise was destroyed by the gods that the engineers are beholden to because they themselves sought to be gods. And this is the cycle repeating itself. As to why they hate us - we represent their failure and demise. In some way were may have even been responsible for it. Perhaps not the humans from Earth, but humans seeded on a different world. Or maybe it's simply that we represent the selfish acts that the Engineers were destroyed by their gods for having committed. And everything we see on LV-223 is dead and corrupted, not as it was when it was still paradise. The black slime was powerful and would still disintegrate an engineer (as we saw during the prologue) but it gave birth to rich forms of life rather than the twisted and hellish forms encountered by the Weyland expedition.
Too generic Alien. Honestly, I prefer that fake spoiler/script we had running around not too long ago:
And then fly down to land on the planet at a random point and happened to see some straight lines on the ground so David reckoned 'dude's let's go there' and the others were all like 'sure, why not' and then they go into the first of many structures and find dead aliens and think that all the aliens are dead and don't look in the other structures or the rest of the planet and then THE END.
I'm gonna cry if it was actually real and they fucked it up because they want to sequelize it or they didn't like that it leaked out to the public.
I'd love to see that on film instead of this mess we ended up with.
The fake script outline doesn't really match up with any of the intentions of the writers and the director at all though. I don't believe for a moment that at any point the Engineers were on the planet as a race of beings who would welcome the crew and talk to them. Everything we know about the production and the art designs and the development of the movie - indicates that they would be exploring space ruins.
Because he's Michael Fassbender.
Yeah, based on those (few) details, Spaihts' draft sounds a lot like an "Alien 0" to me ("happens before the others, but same shit, basically"), and I don't know that I'd be all that interested in that...
That being said, I'd still take a well-executed space monster movie over the pretentious trainwreck Prometheus was.
They made it pretty clear... They said there was only 1 set of stars that matched the pictogram, and there was only one body among them that was earth-like and could sustain life.
In the sequel it will turn out that Shaw was an android too, just with more advanced organic components. Also the Engineers are androids. On the way to the Engineer homeworld Shaw and David get sucked into a temporal anomaly and crash on a barren planet. Shaw repairs David and they have android sex. They swear revenge against humanity and their android offspring evolve into the Engineers who create humanity so they can have their revenge.
Like explained above, that's not quite what they said.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
has it been confirmed that mother mary was impregnated by a facehugger with jesus?
BuddyJoeHooker
Member
Ether_Snake
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Ha, I was right. The thing behind the head is not only really an altar, it is indeed where the engineer sacrificed himself to generate the black goo which would be used to create the xenomorphs, as shown on the mural.
Sacrificial altar, with bowl. In the movie they replaced it with a green stone??
edit: Also in the artbook, it clearly says the mural is not "meaningless, just an hommage", it says "it is a wink to Giger's previous work, a sort of hommage. The Prometheus crew looks at it wondering what it is, but they can't figure it out.". So it does have actual meaning, and it is quite obvious what it means: sacrifice at the altar->xenomorph.
Sacrificial altar, with bowl. In the movie they replaced it with a green stone??
edit: Also in the artbook, it clearly says the mural is not "meaningless, just an hommage", it says "it is a wink to Giger's previous work, a sort of hommage. The Prometheus crew looks at it wondering what it is, but they can't figure it out.". So it does have actual meaning, and it is quite obvious what it means: sacrifice at the altar->xenomorph.
Ether_Snake
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(that's a hell of a leap to make)
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