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[Ether_Snake]

But as the first scene showed the black goo just causes early-onset osteoporosis. Then all of a sudden it makes dudes possessed, but still intelligent enough to walk right back outside the ship, then start killing all the dudes?

We know the engineers self-sacrifice to create life, and that it is an altar in the tomb in front of the mural.

What if when an engineer sacrifices himself "to create life", whatever it possesses afterwards allows the being who sacrificed himself to "carry on", figuratively speaking? Like, life created from an engineer's self-sacrifice will lead to that life committing itself to his "intentions"?

We know the Xenomorph from the end of the movie is referred to as the "Deacon" in the artbook.

The word "deacon" is derived from the Greek word diakonos (διάκονο&#962,[1] which is a standard ancient Greek word meaning "servant", "waiting-man", "minister" or "messenger".

So maybe the engineer self-sacrificed to produce the building material for what was on the mural (xenomorph) to exist and "serve" his plan.

So Fifield is doing what the engineer would have done: attack and kill the humans. Not much differently than one of them did at the end of the movie.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

But so is "Go to these stars, my Children, where your death trap awaits you" when they can just bomb us with those vials from the sky above. Ditto with "Go and visit us, my Children and here are the co-ordinates, which hopefully one of your descendant can decode ten thousand years down in the future" when they can just visit us since they apparently have been visiting us regularly.

Maybe the Engineers just told them where they're from to satisfy their curiosity.

Since they told multiple cultures, Shaw figuring it out down the line was unforeseen since they never expected us to actually come visit. Once that happened, they'd realized they'd fucked up?

I dunno.

 

[Replicant]

Maybe this particular one, but there is the Incan carving that is actually a real-life carving to which they just added the constellation, and that carving has always been know as the Incan cosmonaut because the guy seems to be setting in a flying machine.

These real life carving always gives me the creeps because most of the time I can't tell if the humanoid figures in the carving are humans or some kind of human/animal alien freaks.

Theoretically, they could have just been saying "We're from here" and pointing to that constellation in the sky, without it specifically being an invitation or warning or trap or whatever.

So it's like when a dog pees on a pole to mark its territory? I can work with that but they must be incredibly petty to do that from generations to generations.

 

[lunchtoast]

Generally speaking most people who like both Alien and Aliens still prefer one over the other. People who really love both equally are pretty rare, imo.

I like both of them the same since they're different movies. I've recently found new appreciation for Alien as I did a few presentations on it when I was in film school.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Don't mean to call you out but isn't that Mayan king Pacal?

Yes Mayan actually.

 

[Messypandas]

Yeah it wasn't an invitation. Remember we were way over-due a reaping. They just told us where they're from somewhere down the line.

 

[Maxim726X]

Did anyone else think that David purposely infected Holloway because he thought he was a piece of shit?

 

[Dan]

Ah, that's right, I remember that now. Crazy there are no repercussions for this. You think she'd have a bigger beef with him. But fuck it, she needed a pilot to alien world so that drama just lifts away from the movie in mere seconds, never to be touched again. Blame it all on Weyland, problem solved.

Huge drama in this movie is glossed over with single lines, if we're lucky.

There are no repercussions to ANYTHING in the whole movie. Shit just happens, then everyone moves onto the next scene without thinking or reacting to the previous action. That's the whole movie.

 

[LuCkymoON]

I love the series and also enjoyed this movie. I also own the Quadrilogy and have preordered Prometheus on bluray.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

So it's like when a dog pees on a pole to mark its territory? I can work with that but they must be incredibly petty to do that from generations to generations.

Haha. Well it's not implied that the Engineers actually made the drawings, right? They were just telling each civilization where they came from. And those civilizations were all like "holy shit I gotta write this down".

I'm not even really arguing anything here, by the way. The script is well-ventilated with plotholes. I'm just saying I think this is fanwankable for now until they confirm something stupid in a sequel or something.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I think my theory makes sense:

Engineer self-sacrifice = building block to create new life (goo).
New life = whatever the intentions of the engineer(s) was, or more precisely, servants.
Black goo doesn't take long to "evolve", once "absorbed", into whatever was meant to be created: it does not simply create "life", it creates a specific life form over a short period of time by must jump through a few hoops to get there.

So the engineers created man through self-sacrifice, with a purpose for mankind down the line.
Eventually, for some reason, the engineers believe that mankind is not following the plan.
Engineers decide on a new plan, need new building material and destroy mankind to create the new desired life form.
Engineer(s) self-sacrifice to create new building material at the altar in the tomb/temple.
Something happens and the building material ends up never being used at all to go create this new life form and mankind survives.
Mankind comes in contact with the black goo: doesn't take long for the intended lifeform seen on the mural to emerge.
Life form (know as Deacon, or servant, in the art book)carries on whatever its intended use was supposed to be (in the artbook we see it walk to an engineer ship).

Why the so-called invitation? No idea, but we know they changed their minds eventually, so we'll probably know why the invitation after finding out why they changed their minds. The moon-base might have had a very different purpose at the time of the "invitation" formulation.

The fact that Ridley Scott refered to the engineers as fallen angels/dark angels who were having all the fun and that paradise would be very different, disturbing, I think might give an idea of what the engineers' intentions were either when they created mankind, or when they decided to destroy them.

It might be hinting at the idea that creating mankind = God's/angels' idea, destroying mankind = fallen angels' idea. But they were stopped, and mankind lived on, as intended by "God" and the "Angels".

 

[noah111]

I take the whole creation aspect as nothing more than what we do with robots. If you're that advanced in biological and genetic understanding to create whatever species you want who serve specific biological functions and ecological contributions, why would you make a machine instead? That's how I explained to myself their suits, anyways.. it's 'biological'.

Also, was anyone else expecting her to get infected or something with that ring? Obviously they had sex and physical contact anyway, but it just seemed that way...

And damn do I really want to know what David said to the engineer and back, along with why the reaction was what it was.. Sucks that we'll have to wait so long for a sequel.

 

[DrForester]

I see at least half a dozen pokemon....

 

[Ether_Snake]

Whatever was said must be in the script, it's so stupid not to reveal it. Hopefully it will be on DVD.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

I saw this last week.

As someone who's never seen any of the Alien movies (yeah you heard me!) and as someone who wasn't on the hype train...I enjoyed this. It was gorgeous with a fantastic set and sense of atmosphere! Also, I thought Noomi Rapace as the lead did a really great job. The thing is, it was good....but it could have been SO MUCH better! The movie needed more killing scenes - what we got were good, but I wanted more damn it! And the ending was really anticlimactic. I mean come on, at least build up the final confrontation with a struggle! Not just "oh hi!" "DIE!" **push button** **dead**

 

[JB1981]

Whatever was said must be in the script, it's so stupid not to reveal it. Hopefully it will be on DVD.

David said "do u like Lawrence of Arabia?"

 

[Tpthrlldragster]

Whatever was said must be in the script, it's so stupid not to reveal it. Hopefully it will be on DVD.

Yeah.

Yes. David's dialogue with the Engineer has an English translation, but Ridley felt very strongly about not subtitling it. I spoke at length about this on my DVD commentary

http://io9.com/5917448/all-of-your-lingering-prometheus-questions-answered

 

[Helmholtz]

So... I'm guessing a lot of people who didn't like Prometheus are the same people who must have hated/would hate Mullholand Dr. I actually like the fact that all the answers aren't spoonfed to the audience, and I've enjoyed reading a few of the theories out there.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

The c-section scene though was fricking brutal, very easily up there with the chestburster scene IMO.

 

[duckroll]

So... I'm guessing a lot of people who didn't like Prometheus are the same people who must have hated/would hate Mullholand Dr. I actually like the fact that all the answers aren't spoonfed to the audience, and I've enjoyed reading a few of the theories out there.

There's no hot lesbian sex in Prometheus though.

 

[Helmholtz]

The ce-ection scene though was fricking brutal, very easily up there with the chestburster scene IMO.

Yeah, that shit was graphic. Definitely lives up to the R rating.

There's no hot lesbian sex in Prometheus though.

Unfortunately no

 

[maharg]

There's no hot lesbian sex in Prometheus though.

Lots of vagina faces though.

 

[duckroll]

Lots of vagina faces though.

Indeed, indeed...

 

[tycoonheart]

So... I'm guessing a lot of people who didn't like Prometheus are the same people who must have hated/would hate Mullholand Dr. I actually like the fact that all the answers aren't spoonfed to the audience, and I've enjoyed reading a few of the theories out there.

How do those two movies even compare? WTF?

 

[bob_arctor]

The c-section scene though was fricking brutal, very easily up there with the chestburster scene IMO.

Yeah there were some nice and nasty moments in the film which definitely harkened back to 80's style horror imo.

 

[TUROK]

So... I'm guessing a lot of people who didn't like Prometheus are the same people who must have hated/would hate Mullholand Dr. I actually like the fact that all the answers aren't spoonfed to the audience, and I've enjoyed reading a few of the theories out there.

If Mulholland Drive had characters and situations as retarded as Prometheus, I wouldn't like it either.

 

[RagnarokX]

I don't really know what you're arguing at this point. Are you looking for a theological debate? Because that'll be at least $10.

Person said the painting looked like a warning not to go to that planet.

Person said "wouldn't it make more sense to just not make the painting in the first place?"

I compared that to putting a forbidden tree in easy access and saying not to eat from it.

I don't see where your confusion is. They are warnings that cause the thing the gods didn't want to happen to happen.

 

[G-Fex]

The c-section scene though was fricking brutal, very easily up there with the chestburster scene IMO.

it sounds fucking disgusting. Wow. That's pretty ruthless

She must have the biggest threshold for pain since she can get all that done, get stapled up and after jabbing herself full of fucking various painkillers, still be just in "fine" condition.

 

[maharg]

Person said the painting looked like a warning not to go to that planet.

Person said "wouldn't it make more sense to just not make the painting in the first place?"

I compared that to putting a forbidden tree in easy access and saying not to eat from it.

I don't see where your confusion is. They are warnings that cause the thing the gods didn't want to happen to happen.

Are you saying the Boof of Genesis is a well written story with no contrivances or conceits, and thus a model of what is right in storytelling, thus "tell primitive humans who can't go anywhere in space not to go to this particular place in space" makes sense?

Because I think that a largely allegorical story about the creation of the world through the lense of 3 thousand years of retelling is probably not a reasonable comparison for a film that came out in 2012.

 

[duckroll]

I think at this point, the most likely answer regarding the invitation seems to be that it was indeed an invitation, and that they originally wanted humanity to follow in their footsteps and join them on LV-223 as a fully developed species capable of space travel and understanding the wonders of our own creation. But then, well, we killed Space Jesus and it all went south.

Lindelof himself says that there is an intended answer as to why they changed their minds about us ~2000 years ago, and that there is an event which could have sparked that off if we look carefully. Scott also confirms that the Jesus theory is something they considered putting into the movie but felt it was too direct an explanation. So I don't think its a stretch to say that the evidences points to it being the intended answer but the movie wants the audience to "think about it" and make that conclusion on their own.

It's a pretty silly answer though.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

it sounds fucking disgusting. Wow. That's pretty ruthless

She must have the biggest threshold for pain since she can get all that done, get stapled up and after jabbing herself full of fucking various painkillers, still be just in "fine" condition.

I felt she was definitely channeling Sigourney Weaver for it. She did have a hard time walking afterwards though.

 

[bob_arctor]

it sounds fucking disgusting. Wow. That's pretty ruthless

She must have the biggest threshold for pain since she can get all that done, get stapled up and after jabbing herself full of fucking various painkillers, still be just in "fine" condition.

Ripley would have done it, no sweat.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Are you saying the Boof of Genesis is a well written story with no contrivances or conceits, and thus a model of what is right in storytelling, thus "tell primitive humans who can't go anywhere in space not to go to this particular place in space" makes sense?

Because I think that a largely allegorical story about the creation of the world through the lense of 3 thousand years of retelling is probably not a reasonable comparison for a film that came out in 2012.

lol

 

[JB1981]

I saw this last week.

As someone who's never seen any of the Alien movies (yeah you heard me!) and as someone who wasn't on the hype train...I enjoyed this. It was gorgeous with a fantastic set and sense of atmosphere! Also, I thought Noomi Rapace as the lead did a really great job. The thing is, it was good....but it could have been SO MUCH better! The movie needed more killing scenes - what we got were good, but I wanted more damn it! And the ending was really anticlimactic. I mean come on, at least build up the final confrontation with a struggle! Not just "oh hi!" "DIE!" **push button** **dead**

They said they filmed a much longer scene with her fighting and struggling with the Engineer but in the end they thought it "diminished him" and his power/strength

 

[Zombie James]

The c-section scene though was fricking brutal, very easily up there with the chestburster scene IMO.

I disagree. I think the CG ruined it. If it was a practical effect - which it totally could and should have been - it would have had a lot more impact.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I disagree. I think the CG ruined it. If it was a practical effect - which it totally could and should have been - it would have had a lot more impact.

It used CG? I couldn't tell except for the lasers/open wound.

 

[Man]

Has a new viral video released this week or did I misread on the train?

 

[commedieu]

So... I'm guessing a lot of people who didn't like Prometheus are the same people who must have hated/would hate Mullholand Dr. I actually like the fact that all the answers aren't spoonfed to the audience, and I've enjoyed reading a few of the theories out there.

So, were you shocked to find out Charlize was Weylands daughter..?

There is no depth to Prometheus, as presented to the audience. What answers do you know, that flew over the audiences head? Thats right, none. There is a lack of story. Which leads to speculation, there is no content to see in a different way, or a depth to a scene that people could miss.

Terrible comparison.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

They said they filmed a much longer scene with her fighting and struggling with the Engineer but in the end they thought it "diminished him" and his power/strength

Oh really? Ugh....that would have been perfect! The movie needed that scene so badly. I mean all of that build up and then we get him reappearing for like 20 seconds?

 

[BuddyJoeHooker]

They said they filmed a much longer scene with her fighting and struggling with the Engineer but in the end they thought it "diminished him" and his power/strength

I liked how fast it was, if it wasn't quick it would have been five minutes of throwing around and finally releasing the huge facehugger.

Has a new viral video released this week or did I misread on the train?

Peter Weyland - Thus Spoke Zarathustra

 

[Dead]

Would have liked to see the ending with The Deacon walking outside the lifepod as seen in the artbook, rather than just ending on that closeup of its xenoface

Speaking of which, I picked up the artbook today. Neat.

 

[JB1981]

Has a new viral video released this week or did I misread on the train?

There is a new short clip of WEyland mumbling something to himself before making a speech or something. I can't make out what he's saying though

 

[duckroll]

Btw, for those wondering about the differences between the original script by Spaihts and the re-written one by Lindelof, I'll paste some links.

http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/news/2012/06/prometheus-screenwriter-jon-spaihts/

Spaihts: It’s difficult for me to say very much about Prometheus without getting spoiler-y, so I’ll talk with some delicacy. I had the insight that if you were to try to reach back in time for the history of the universe we glimpse in the original Alien, you are inevitably concerning yourself with the affairs of non-human beings. Both the deadly predator that is the through-line of the Alien franchise and the enigmatic dead alien giant that is the great mystery at the beginning of Alien. Those are interesting entities not fully explained, but to keep an audience interested in those things it couldn’t be abstraction, it couldn’t be a purely “alien story” about things we can’t relate to. It was going to have to be connected to our own story. Somehow the story of those creatures was going to have to be connected to the human story, not just our history but our fate to come. I looked for ways to make those connections, and that’s where I got interested.

http://io9.com/5909279/prometheus-writer-jon-spaihts-on-how-to-create-a-great-space-movie

How much of the "searching for the origins of humanity in space" stuff was already in the story before Damon Lindelof came in? Was that always the reason for our heroes to go into space?

Always there.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1687022/prometheus-secrets-damon-lindelof.jhtml

The script I got was written by Jon Spaihts. He is a wonderful person and a great writer and his script reflected both. However, he had been tasked with executing the very specific task of making the story very "Alieny" (not a word) and it was rife with eggs, facehuggers, chestbursters and the Xenomorphs they grew into. If memory serves, the eggs show up around the end of the first act and the familiar progression of fertilization and gestation begins, at which point, all hell breaks loose.

Although I would be careful to ever use the term "Lindelof-ized" (such a phrase could just as easily be defined as "the process by which an ending is made completely unclear and/or f---ed up all together") my job was to strip out the familiar "Alien" stuff and rebalance the plot mechanics so that stuff felt more like the RESULT of the story as opposed to the catalyst. I also became obsessed with David as the central character of the piece and did everything I could to think of the movie through the robot's point of view. Mostly because robots are awesome, but also because robots are awesome.

http://collider.com/jon-spaihts-prometheus-world-war-robot-interview/157982/

Do you know how much your first draft changed by the time that it started filming?

SPAIHTS: Certainly, it evolved a lot, while I was on it. I wrote five rapidly evolving drafts that changed a lot, even on my watch. And, I’ve read Damon’s draft as well. I would say that what Damon did was more of a rebalancing of the story than a reinvention. My plot, my characters, and my mythology are all still firmly in place, but he found a way to complicate it and elaborate on some character relationships and mythology, and he wrote some great new scenes and a lot of new ideas. It’s impossible to be very specific without getting into spoilers, and I want to preserve the secrecy of the story, as much as I can. So, there is definitely a lot of new energy and some new ideas, but when I read the script or watch the movie, I see a story that I feel a lot of ownership of.

http://io9.com/5917639/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-design-of-prometheus

The designers did "some very nice work" on the orbiting space station where Peter Weyland has his office, according to production designer Arthur Max. This included "a very interesting space colony that was orbiting around the planet Mars. There was a base for terraforming Mars." This whole sequence got cut before shooting, because it was too lengthy and slowed down the pacing of the film. But you can glimpse a teeny bit of it in the hologram released by the Weyland Corporation.

Writer Jon Spaihts says his drafts involved a meeting in Weyland's office — which at various times was either on a space station, or actually on the surface of Mars, right in the middle of the terraforming project. "Terraforming was much more Mr. Weyland's burning dream in my drafts," says Spaihts.

Oh, and as for why Weyland is played by Guy Pearce in old-man makeup, Spaihts says Damon Lindelof's script showed the android David going inside Weyland's dreams while he was in hypersleep — and in his dreams, Weyland is a young man, on a yacht surrounded by beautiful women. These dream conversations got cut, but Pearce's casting was already locked in. Scott had originally wanted to cast Max von Sydow as Peter Weyland. (In Spaiht's script versions, Weyland isn't aboard the Prometheus at all — instead, there's a hidden squad of company soldiers.)

 

[RagnarokX]

Are you saying the Boof of Genesis is a well written story with no contrivances or conceits, and thus a model of what is right in storytelling, thus "tell primitive humans who can't go anywhere in space not to go to this particular place in space" makes sense?

Because I think that a largely allegorical story about the creation of the world through the lense of 3 thousand years of retelling is probably not a reasonable comparison for a film that came out in 2012.

I'd say it's a similar example of BAD storytelling if the ancient starmap was a warning. Why give the humans a map to their weapon development planet at all. The humans didn't have their own ships anyway.

You're saying that parallels ancient mythology has no bearing on a movie influence largely by ancient mythology? The entire premise of the movie is based on an allegory, and there may or may not be a Space Jesus. I don't get why you're being so aggressive here.

 

[maharg]

I'd say it's a similar example of BAD storytelling if the ancient starmap was a warning.

You're saying that parallels ancient mythology has no bearing on a movie influence largely by ancient mythology? The entire premise of the movie is based on an allegory. I don't get why you're being so aggressive here.

I agree it'd be an example of bad storytelling, I'm just not sure why you think that bad storytelling in the book of genesis means it's identical in this. You're the one who brought genesis into this discussion, so I'm asking you to tell me why, because it's very much not clear.

There's nothing in the movie to indicate that it's a warning, and it being a warning doesn't make any sense on any level. To assume it's a warning and then bitch about it is to literally look for flaws in the movie that aren't there. For a movie as flawed as this one is, that shouldn't really be necessary.

The script I got was written by Jon Spaihts. He is a wonderful person and a great writer and his script reflected both. However, he had been tasked with executing the very specific task of making the story very "Alieny" (not a word) and it was rife with eggs, facehuggers, chestbursters and the Xenomorphs they grew into. If memory serves, the eggs show up around the end of the first act and the familiar progression of fertilization and gestation begins, at which point, all hell breaks loose.

God how I wish I could see that film.

 

[FStop7]

Got my art book today.

The description of the xenomorph "altar" makes it sound as if it were put in as a passing homage to Alien with no real meaning.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

So, were you shocked to find out Charlize was Weylands daughter..?

There is no depth to Prometheus, as presented to the audience. What answers do you know, that flew over the audiences head? Thats right, none. There is a lack of story. Which leads to speculation, there is no content to see in a different way, or a depth to a scene that people could miss.

Terrible comparison.

To put it another way, the story in Prometheus was so one dimensional and apparent, that Scott and Lindelof have to constantly say "no it's not".

 

[ultrazilla]

I thought the film was great. Amazing sets, locations and props(I want that
6 wheeled apc!). The 3D really added to the immersion IMO and
the shots Ridley came up with (Prometheus landing for the first time and
the Juggernaut taking off with Prometheus in pursuit) were jaw dropping.

I'm of the opinion that the movie is just fine with alot of the
"unanswered questions". It makes for fun discussion and leaves
multiple avenues for the sequel(s) to take.

That said, there are minor issues I had which mainly concern
the actual creature designs of the "squid monster" and end "deacon" xeno.
I wanted more disturbing, bio mechanical looking creatures and IMO
we really didn't get them.

The film will probably be subject to some good fan edits. I think
the engineer/deacon chestburster end scene could be removed
totally or someone with some good editing skills could edit in the
79 ALIEN(it rising off the floor after Ripley hitting the o2 in the
shuttle at the end of the movie could work).

I'll definately be seeing it again in 3D here soon to look for more
stuff I may have missed and take in Scott and company's amazing
visuals.

9/10

 

[RagnarokX]

I agree it'd be an example of bad storytelling, I'm just not sure why you think that bad storytelling in the book of genesis means it's identical in this. You're the one who brought genesis into this discussion, so I'm asking you to tell me why, because it's very much not clear.

There's nothing in the movie to indicate that it's a warning, and it being a warning doesn't make any sense on any level. To assume it's a warning and then bitch about it is to literally look for flaws in the movie that aren't there. For a movie as flawed as this one is, that shouldn't really be necessary.

I didn't say it was a warning nor do I think it was one. I was replying to a poster who thought it was and referenced Genesis as a similar example of a stupid warning that created a self-fulfilling prophecy. I wasn't using it to criticize the movie (unless it actually was a warning, but I don't think it was)

Giving us a map was kinda pointless unless at the time they made it they actually did want us to go there. But then why was it a map to a weapons research planet? So many questions. I hope there is a sequel.

 

[BuddyJoeHooker]

Oh, and as for why Weyland is played by Guy Pearce in old-man makeup, Spaihts says Damon Lindelof's script showed the android David going inside Weyland's dreams while he was in hypersleep — and in his dreams, Weyland is a young man, on a yacht surrounded by beautiful women. These dream conversations got cut, but Pearce's casting was already locked in. Scott had originally wanted to cast Max von Sydow as Peter Weyland. (In Spaiht's script versions, Weyland isn't aboard the Prometheus at all — instead, there's a hidden squad of company soldiers.)

That's why we get old man makeup, I still want to see more Guy Pearce, maybe he can be a android in a future film.