Your phone will still work. When your contract comes up in <2 years you'll just buy another subsidized phone like everyone else.
Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
- Thread starter Windu
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Your phone will still work. When your contract comes up in <2 years you'll just buy another subsidized phone like everyone else.
there are windows 7 tablets out there if you want those, i don't know why you would. You're the first person i have seen complain about the metro stuff on tablets.
I don't think Apple and Microsoft can actually sue each other. They've still got a patent agreement going on from a while ago.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
We'll see.
A whole lot of people, including some in this thread, predicted the iPad would be a failure based on it's lack of dekstop-PC like capabilities. That didn't really seem to bother the general consumer.
And MS has had desktop-PC like capable tablet computing devices running their software on the market for a decade. They didn't light anyone on fire.
Metro UI + Desktop mode is a HUGE difference.. not saying it isn't.. but I still am not so sure that's how MS really sees this devices success panning out... and I certainly think MS wants to go the Metro UI route as much as possible.
But we'll see as I said.
I'm interested in both products myself.. just curious to see how the differences in hardware actually pan out.
If you guys think MS's success hinges on the "desktop mode" feature.. well.. why in the world did they show off only a Windows RT device? Why even have Windows RT devices? That's a whole lot of failure if their main selling point doesn't exist for half of their product line.
Buddha Beam
Banned
I can see myself buying the pro, depending on how good the digitizer and stylus are. This thing is nearing holy grail material for me.
That said, even if it gets phenomenal reviews and a good price point, I'll wait a year or so and see how Apple responds. I've always felt that OS X and iOS will converge after OS9 comes and goes. If they manage to add a digitizer stylus to the iPad or revamp the Mac Air are a touch screen device, I'll probably go with that option since I'm so tied in with Apple at this point.
But... I'll only wait a year.
That said, even if it gets phenomenal reviews and a good price point, I'll wait a year or so and see how Apple responds. I've always felt that OS X and iOS will converge after OS9 comes and goes. If they manage to add a digitizer stylus to the iPad or revamp the Mac Air are a touch screen device, I'll probably go with that option since I'm so tied in with Apple at this point.
But... I'll only wait a year.
NullPointer
Member
I think this news is good for both Microsoft and Apple users. The competition here is a good thing.
la flama blanca
Banned
It's like a cartoon character vomited on a screen. I find it to be very cluttered and unappealing. Looking at it with how nicely they designed the device itself, one does not belong with the other. I might get over it though, and might actually pull the trigger on this. Please Microsoft, don't make me regret this!
Quadrangulum
Banned
This is pretty damn incredible. It has several significant productivity advantages which will be very difficult for me to overlook even though my iPad has been an unparalleled media/entertainment device.
Why have 2 versions of windows? I can understand a lower spec model but this baffles me. So RT will only be able to install apps from the MS app store? Pro clearly needs to be the frontman for this to succeed.
Im curious as to what version OEMs are going to go with primarily?
Im curious as to what version OEMs are going to go with primarily?
Good thing too, the dissipation has save my wallet quite a few times. I'm hoping it turns out to be just what I want it to be though.
The question is, will you be happy about adding %50 more thickness, 40% more weight, a cooling fan to your tablet and getting half the battery life just to be able to use it as a fully featured computer once you buy all the expensive accessories?
My gut says most people will prefer their laptops instead and get a tablet if they want one instead. Then when intel is making fanless fast and power efficient x86 designs 2 years later at 14nm, Apple will buy their (timed) exclusivity, then introduce the same thing but this time it'll weigh as much as the current iPad and get good battery life, and it will sell like crazy.
As much as it pains me to say it, Apple's success with the iPad is wholly due to the iTunes Store. Whatever functionality the iPad lacks, which is quite a bit, has been added to it by their marketplace. Well, as much functionality as Apple feels comfortable letting people have.
To make in-roads with the ARM crowd, the MS Store is going to need to attract the same sort of entreuprenuerial spirit from smaller devs. I'd love to see them under-cut Apple's 30%, for starters.
only 32% more thickness, and still pretty thin. But does it really add a fan?
Yeah I'm not really convinced there's a substantial maket for the pro device. The RT one seems cool but it's major selling point is just the keyboard. It'll be interesting to see what happens. It's unquestionably a quality product but I don't know how many people are going to want RT over iOS.
Absolutely. You know Apple will be copying that brilliant use of cover as keyboard.
nVidiot_Whore said:
I'm intrigued about the RT, just more excited at the Pro. But both interest me alot. I don't think the success hinges on the Pro, but I do think people recognize that the RT is going to have the more outright slugfest with the iPad while the Pro can make inroads outside Apple's area of influence, even if it will take alot of marketing.
but i think people enjoy that the iPad is slightly different to their notebook... it makes it more fun. there's alot of moms and dads who spend all day on the computer and don't want to spend anymore time in front of a computer when they get home...
thats what microsoft needs to be successful - more shops... just having a presence in bestbuy i don't think will cut it. for apple its psychological, the masses of people inside the shop, the long queues, the high demand etc makes people wonder what they are missing out on. having a few computers sitting in best buy isn't enough to generate excitement. Seeing your best mate hold the windows surface isn't enough... but if heaps and heaps of people are playing with the surface inside a shop then that interest will pique, people will write more positively, say more positive things about it.
lmfao
Gary Whitta
Member
I think someone in another thread suggested that MS should really jump-start the Metro app marketplace by taking NO percentage of app sales from devs in the first year. They can afford it. Populate the app market first, make it attractive to both consumers and devs, before taking a cut.
THIS so much... why segregate the audience... apple combined its iphone and ipad audience into one eco-system which has made it very succesful.
Where are you getting this?
The ARM model is right around the same weight as the new iPad and HP already announced their own x86 model that's even thinner and has an 8-10 hour battery life.
I believe the 30% drops to 20% once the app has done $25k in sales
ARM vs x86/64
cubicle47b
Member
I really like the idea of a nice high-resolution tablet that runs x86 apps on Windows 8. I'll need more details (price, especially) before I jump, though.
They bet the house on wp7 for phones.
Can I see your math please
I get 45% thickness difference between the RT and Pro.Just on a technical level, it's impossible not the segregate the audience.
They did it with the original MBA, I'm not talking out of my ass here. Not exclusivity per an agreement, but they got first pick while Intel couldn't produce chips at high volumes at the new process node, which basically resulted in timed exclusivity due to Apple buying all the low voltage chips.
yes - apple has it right... ipad is really for viewing product
while the desktop/notebook is for creating product
It'll be interesting to see how the surface does one year from now and what people do with their tablet.
If Windows RT was true windows 8 on arm it would be fine. You cross compile and you are fine. It's not.
Can I see your math please
oh you're right, I was doing,
9.3 mm / 13.5 mm which makes RT 68% of the Pro. Then I concluded 32%. Which was dumb.
Still 13.5 is thin enough for me.
I'll admit it, that's hot. Even though MS has completely undermined the business model that has sustained them for years at least they're doing it with damn nice looking hardware. I'd consider something like that for sure against the iPad, and depending on x64 specifications perhaps even as a laptop replacement as well. I'll make that decision next year.
i think they should just go with the windows 8 OS on the tablet if thats the case... but obviously they need to get it down to the ipad price so they had to produce the RT
in Australia the iPad 2 is $399 - thats amazing value if you dont' care about retina. it still works amazing for me and i have yet to upgrade.
so the question is can they get the RT down to something around the $500 mark?
It wouldn't make a difference, because you'd still have a whole bunch of programs that don't have ARM versions. Hence, segregation.
I am talking about the Pro vs. RT difference.
You have source.
Compille for ARM ISA
Compile for x86 ISA
What are you talking about?
If you provide the same functionality on both platforms you can compile the code accordingly. Problem is RT is not windows 8
Ok, so they might as well have called the RT version Windows Phone 7 XL. If they really wanted to play ball with apple(and to lesser degree google) they should have unified the phone OS and desktop OS.
All of the rumors say Windows Phone 8 will be Windows RT based. The leaked Xbox 720 documents also suggested a "Windows 8" base for the next Xbox, so... I think they do want to play ball.
Chances are, all three platforms will be able to run very similar apps written in WinRT
les papillons sexuels
Banned
because microsoft understands that there are 2 markets. Those that want a small workstation for travel (my brother in law recently bought a macbook air for exactly this reason), and those who want an every day media device.
The macbook air is to the ipad what the surface pro is to the surface.
Leona Lewis
Banned
The hardware is gorgeous, and I'm glad that Microsoft took its design cues from Zune HD rather than XBOX. But I'm curious about all the excitement about having a "fully featured computer" in tablet form.
The sacrifices you have to make in weight, thickness, battery life, heat, etc. (not to mention having to buy a separate keyboard/pen if you really want the full power user experience) for the "Pro" SKU don't seem worth it in the face of increasingly more attractive ultrabooks. I guess I don't see the point of the Intel model since programs like Photoshop and Steam would be gimped by the ULV processor and graphics chip - and at that point, why bother paying the premium?
The sacrifices you have to make in weight, thickness, battery life, heat, etc. (not to mention having to buy a separate keyboard/pen if you really want the full power user experience) for the "Pro" SKU don't seem worth it in the face of increasingly more attractive ultrabooks. I guess I don't see the point of the Intel model since programs like Photoshop and Steam would be gimped by the ULV processor and graphics chip - and at that point, why bother paying the premium?
AngmarsKing701
Member
This.
The iPad is a toy that's fun to play with. This is set to be a tool that can be used in universities, in businesses... and be fun to play with.
that is what the Windows Phone conference on wednesday is for. all signs point to them doing just that.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I think the Surface Pro will become a premiere "non-MBA" ultra book. The great thing for MS is it doesn't have to light the world on fire either, because it will keep on getting Windows support. They didn't pigeonhole themselves into needing developers to support a single product line like WebOS or Blackberry did with their failed attempts. By this same notion, I don't have many high hopes for the RT. It just seems gimped and will probably struggle to find a niche among all the random Android tabs.
When OSX went to Intel we had universal binaries that worked on ppc and intel. They have code compiled for both systems. It was fairly simple because the same os was running on both systems. Thats not the case for RT and 8.
You can run the same code on ARM and an intel system. You can't run the same binary. Thats a different story.
All of the thousands upon thousands of programs out there aren't going to magically recompile themselves.
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but it looks like the cover comes with the unit.
From MS's website
"Some activities call for a keyboard. Surface comes with an integrated Kickstand and a revolutionary, 3mm thin, pressure sensitive cover that doubles as a fully functioning keyboard and trackpad. Your Touch Cover connects to your Surface with a single magnetic click. Now you can chat with friends and respond to emails comfortably."
From MS's website
"Some activities call for a keyboard. Surface comes with an integrated Kickstand and a revolutionary, 3mm thin, pressure sensitive cover that doubles as a fully functioning keyboard and trackpad. Your Touch Cover connects to your Surface with a single magnetic click. Now you can chat with friends and respond to emails comfortably."
LaserBuddha
Member
My reaction upon seeing it (now with 100% more Nick Cage):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j89CzUNObys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j89CzUNObys
Right but devs could easily recompile them. They can't even do that because RT doesn't have the same OS functionality as 8. I'm saying even if you have source code you can just cross compile because RT is a different OS all together. It doesn't adhere to the same API as far as I can tell from reading.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
The Windows RT / Windows 8 dichotomy serves MULTIPLE purpose.
And the "why" behind it has to do with the long sordid history that is the "Win32" platform and the various Windows kernels that have supported it, and the ARM based hardware platform that dominates the mobile device market.
It's a little bit complicated.
In a nut shell:
MS basically created an OS for mobile operating systems, they called this OS Windows RT. It's a successor to Windows Phone 7 really, but built to be more usable at a higher resolution on a larger screen.
This OS was designed to run on ARM based hardware.
At the same time, they continued to develop on the Windows 7 OS to create Windows 8. But instead of just doing that, they essentially built a version of WindowsRT into Windows 8. So that any code written for Windows RT, could also run on Windows 8, in it's own UI layer, called Metro UI.
It doesn't work the other way around.. again.. because of the history of these OS's, hardware platforms, etc.
Why? Well.. again, kind of complicated. It's just what MS thought would be a good idea..
The main idea being: get people to use MetroUI apps on PCs and you can hopefully sell a lot of MetroUI based mobile devices and maybe tie this into Xbox and other TV efforts somehow.
They also seem to be hoping touch-screen monitors catch on in the PC / Laptop arena. Making it so you REALLY end up with a Windows RT-like device whether it's Windows RT or Windows 8.
The side benefit: You get tablets that can act like tablets and desktops at the same time.
At least, that's how I see it.. and I think what MS's motivations were.
The motivation wasn't to create a tablet that also acts as a desktop PC. They could have done that at any point with Vista, or Windows 7... there are a wide range of x86 Windows tablets already on the market.
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