So there will be no metro apps with multitouch? How can I make an app as simple as a multi-finger drawing app that you can find a bunch of in the iOS app store also work without a touchscreen, require multiple mice?
Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
- Thread starter Windu
- Start date
- Status
Guess what the iPad was designed for and what most people do on their computers?
Ding ding ding!
How many downloads for that? I got 50M+ for Angry Birds alone.
Does a Mac Air make sense for the everyday consumer? If you say yes then you have to say this does too.
Work != provide identical experience
The_Darkest_Red
Member
So guys --- my wife is studying photography right now and soon she's going to need a new computer. She has a few years of school left and then she plans on running her own business so whatever computer we decide on will be the one she uses for work (at least for a few years or so). Right now I'm looking at this thing and it seems like a potential option, especially since the tablet functionality would make it a nice non-work computer as well. What do you guys think I should do?
Also, it will probably be at least a few months before I really make a decision but I'm just trying to figure out what all of my options are.
Also, it will probably be at least a few months before I really make a decision but I'm just trying to figure out what all of my options are.
brotkasten
Member
I thought you're just a really aggressive Apple fanboy that shits in threads for no reason, but you seem to be just stupid.
Yep, definitely just stupid.
You should take a nap. You ain't thinking straight.
I think one of the laptop/touchscreen hybrids or an ultrabook/air would be better. Even though it has the neat keyboard cover I think a dedicated keyboard is necessary for serious work.
Plus 10" is a tiny screen for photography. She'd definitely need a second monitor.
Replace Apple with MS and you have my thoughts about you as well.
If it's not going to provide an identical experience, again why would non-touchscreen Win8 users use the Metro apps? There are already enough complaints about just using Metro UI on a non-touch device, you think touch apps will be any more popular?
Interfectum
Member
when is the pro version supposed to launch??
TheRagnCajun
Member
Colour me impressed. I've never considered a tablet due to its limited functionality, but I will strongly consider picking this up when it releases, if the price is right. I can't believe this is coming from MS, bravo!
Would Angry Birds, Words with Friends or Draw Something have an issue with a mouse interface?
The answer is no.
Diablohead
Member
If you think that spending such money on a tablet/laptop hybrid is good then do so, why argue over what is better? I love my ipad and over the last year have wanted to move away from a full size pc tower to something smaller, this to be is really nice and I am willing to pay the asking price.
if you think it's too much for what you get then that is fine, it's not like the regular pc is going anywhere.
if you think it's too much for what you get then that is fine, it's not like the regular pc is going anywhere.
You got?
coldfoot said:
The dude owns an iPad. He is not fanboy by any stretch. And I not under the assumption that he is stupid either.
coldfoot said:
Facebook style games will be big on the Windows Marketplace. The same style of games that are big on phones. Bet on it.
show me your skeleton
Member
anyone have any idea how the pen digitizer used here compares to wacom's technology? in other words, would this scratch my arty itch or am i completely off & this is more of a stylus/note taking accessory?
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
No release dates have been announced yet. Speculation is that the ARM model will launch with Windows 8, which doesn't have a release date either but is expected in October. Pro model would follow a few months later.
Also not disclosed are price, battery life and host of other things.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
expect hes not stupid, stoic maybe. theres nothing wrong with metro using mouse and key board. and you don't have to use multiple inputs to draw on paint do you?
Good god this is actually really simple.
Lots of touch enabled devices are being announced and released.
Many users will be upgrading to w8 or will be purchasing non-touch devices.
Knowing Windows' popularity, the number will be massive.
The devices will be a mix of x86 and ARM all of which will have metro.
That's a lot of people using the same OS (albeit in different versions), and the lowest common denominator for all versions of the OS is that Metro apps can run on all of them.
Apps can be designed to use or not use multitouch. They will most probably be usable with touch and with mouse with one version possibly being better than the other.
We are living in the age of Apps. Software is now incredibly much easier to get exposure and sell. Why do you think that no one will develop for the largest OS userbase in the world? Sure, W8 might not become an overnight phenomenon, but Metro isn't going anywhere and it's in devs best interests to adapt to the part of the OS which is not disappearing for sure.
That plus the fact that all signs point to apps being phone/tablet/desktop cross compatible.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I doubt it'll be like the wacom digitizer, but you can make pretty decent art with even an iPad. Not professional quality but still pretty good. With the Pro version you can get full versions of Painter 12 or photoshop, so it should be alot better than the apps for iPad, just don't expect alot of levels of sensitivity, or any really. Still not sure if this is a pressure sensitive pen.
It's the artist first before the tools.
Interfectum
Member
Thanks.
I'm wondering how the fuck MS is going to market these two tablets to the common consumer. The minute you start mentioning "RT" and "ARM" you've lost most people. Can't wait to see how sales reps explain the differences.
radioheadrule83
Banned
The way that these apps integrate into the Metro 'desktop' experience will make them popular. Especially games and social applications (email, Facebook, any turn based, web based games) -- they will fully integrate showing up-to-date feed images, notifications, message numbers and things like that. Its going to be seemless. As someone has already pointed out to you, Metro apps can be operated by the mouse -- there's nothing stopping an app developer for programming in contingencies for multitouch games and apps... ie. using the scrollwheel for zooms, etc. Nobody is going to have the expectation that they should be able to play a touch screen multiplayer game or app using a non touchscreen device. The marketplace is probably like the Android Marketplace, in that such apps can be made to simply not appear for non-touchscreen users.
If there is nothing wrong with using metro with a mouse and keyboard, why is everyone so hyped about the "pro" tablet given that it's just an ultrabook with a screen that's too small and a keyboard that's too cramped?
You can't have it both ways, either admit that the touch interface brings something special to computing that you can't emulate properly with a kb/mouse so the metro apps on desktop will flop, or admit that touch screens in general aren't a big deal and we'd all be better served with laptops, so notebook replacements with touch screens such as the surface pro will flop.
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
Am I the only one irked by the 16:9 ratio? I'd love (in the future, like 3 years from now) to have a digital sketchbook, but that seems better suited for 4:3.
The Windows App store. It will just be easier for people to browse the store and install the apps they see there.
You can in a couple months. Wait, why am I responding to this guy.
Yes you can.
Angry birds and draw something works better with touch.
Word documents, spreadsheets, etc work better with kb/mouse.
Good Job Bob
Member
You're not the only one, it's a garbage aspect ratio--especially for tablets.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Pretty sure that's the point of windows 8.
Whether that's a good philosophy, well, it's looking ok so far.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
because MS has just put a set of standards on windows 8 tablets and hybrids that OEMs should follow. just like how MS put hard set of standards on windows 8 tablets and hybrids, they also put a soft standard on build quality and innovation. if you don't like the keyboard thats fine, but i do, and i am not gonna stop liking it just because you don't.
who are you? the fun police?
i just doing it for lols. dunno why you guys are doing it.
It all depends on the application, the same is true with iOS (except you don't really have an option other than touch). Your logic is kind of like saying keyboard and mouse brings something to gaming so controllers are going to flop.
As the owner of a touch supported laptop (running Windows 8) I can tell you that the advantage of being able to do both is great for speed and productivity. For example, when Im typing such as now, my right hand isnt really near my mouse anyway, and I hate the trackpad. So when I want to do a quick scroll down or press the post button, I can immediately move my hand from my keyboard to my touchscreen. Its faster and more intuitive. When I want to do stuff like text selection however, Ill likely move my hand to the mouse as thats just an easier way to approach that usability problem.
Try to think a bit more open minded. You like Apple, so surely you must like the idea of thinking outside the box of traditional interfaces..
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
This thread now has a weird air of system wars. Real ballers (nerds) have Apple and MS products.
Agree on both counts, which means Angry Birds and draw something will flop on the metro desktop, since they're rubbish with kb/mouse.
There's a difference between making something work, and making something work well. You need it to work well for big sales figures.
Angry Birds is rubbish on kb/mouse? Wasn't that entire genre of gaming created for PCs? You're trying way too hard here.
How about the entire catalog of iOS games that would be 100x better with a controller?
As much as I love my iphone and ipad, I really think MS could dominate with this in the workplace and gaming.
Apple need to protect the ipad becoming a laptop or their laptop business will feel it. They have two products to sell and must make sure that both feel different.
MS don't need to do that here, this could be their laptop/tablet combined and with their gaming history they could really be onto something.
But it's MS and considering my experience with their other hardware venture the xbox360 then I will approach this with extreme trepidation.
Apple need to protect the ipad becoming a laptop or their laptop business will feel it. They have two products to sell and must make sure that both feel different.
MS don't need to do that here, this could be their laptop/tablet combined and with their gaming history they could really be onto something.
But it's MS and considering my experience with their other hardware venture the xbox360 then I will approach this with extreme trepidation.
radioheadrule83
Banned
No. As much as you want to believe one must 'flop' - coexistence is not only possible, its quite likely.
Most Metro apps will work fine with keyboard and mouse, and a lot of desktop apps will work equally fine using the touchscreen as a mouse and the touch keyboard cover.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
no its coldfoot being a stick in the mud.
word on the street is he can't multitask.
Clicking and dragging is a near impossible task for an average human.
Good luck with that ever catching on.
I agree with you, that's why I'm in the camp of running touch interfaces without a touchscreen will flop side, and a <1.5lbs version of the Surface pro without cooling fans would be the shiznit.
16:9 is a perfectly fine aspect ratio for a tablet that seems to function exclusively (or at least well) in landscape orientation. For true tablets (i.e. not a keyboard-less laptop), 4:3 is a no brainer.
Crazymoogle
Member
This is one of my big question marks based on the spec sheet provided.
Tablet Class:
iPad 2 (1024x768): 25 Wh
Surface (ARM - 1280x720?): 32.5 Wh
iPad 3 (2048x1536): 42.5Wh
This is never going to be oranges-to-oranges, but the ARM model needs to scrounge for equivalent battery life to the iPad 2 with higher resolution and Tegra, while the Surface is basically just an ultrabook with a (somewhat) undersized battery and dedicated video (which neither Air model has). It's possible Nvidia has somehow beat out the SGX in terms of power draw...but I think it's more plausible that there is a penalty instead.
Ultrabook Class:
Macbook Air (11" - 1366x768): 35 Wh
Surface (x86 - 1920x1080): 42.5 Wh
Macbook Air (13" - 1400x900): 50 Wh
I think it's reasonable to expect maybe an hour deficit on the ARM model and 1-2 hour deficit on the x86 model, but it's just a guess. It's not impossible that they've solved a lot of power draw concerns.
Are you claiming Kb/M and touch input don't have their own different uses? Or that software can't be designed to work with both?
You'd be wrong on both acounts anyway.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
you can only ask one question, not both. it doesn't work that way.
planar1280
Banned
The SeattlePi very first paragraph when describing this tablet pretty much hits the nail on the head
All current tablets are more geared towards content consumption rather than creation or rather the focus is consumption. Surface seems to be one of the first mass devices which allows for content creation as well with FULL featured windows. I mean which tablet which seems to have the best chance to run adobe lightroom full version?
All current tablets are more geared towards content consumption rather than creation or rather the focus is consumption. Surface seems to be one of the first mass devices which allows for content creation as well with FULL featured windows. I mean which tablet which seems to have the best chance to run adobe lightroom full version?
After thinking more about this last night, this is clearly not a home run in either direction.
The RT model is light and thin, but with a bad aspect ratio and low resolution.
The Pro model has a good resolution, but still a bad ratio, and it's heavy, thick, and has air vents.
Both are designed to be used in landscape predominantly, which is a mistake.
It looks like a solid first entry(depending on the info we don't have yet). Neither will set the world on fire.
The RT model is light and thin, but with a bad aspect ratio and low resolution.
The Pro model has a good resolution, but still a bad ratio, and it's heavy, thick, and has air vents.
Both are designed to be used in landscape predominantly, which is a mistake.
It looks like a solid first entry(depending on the info we don't have yet). Neither will set the world on fire.
Games similar to Angry Birds existed on PC's before. However, it took Angry Birds, which was first released on iOS to make it a huge hit, and that's largely due to the touch interface opposed to kb/mouse.
What if the user doesn't have a controller? You can't bank on that. Besides the good ones from iOS that would be better with a controller are already on steam or other stores?
This is crap. My TF101 with dock is over 2lbs. 1.5 without the dock. I can hold both comfortably in one hand no problem if I choose.
Lighter is always better but lets not make 2lbs out to be akin to a big bag of sugar...
- Status