Everyone still has a traditional laptop/desktop for some reason or another. Whether it be managing music on your MP3 player, importing photos from your camera, creating/editing content, etc, there is still a whole plethora of things that prevent the iPad from being a viable replacement.
Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
- Thread starter Windu
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Wiktor
Member
And many of them do stuff with laptops that iPad doesn't do well. Thus iPad isn't full replacement for laptop. It can replace it for some people, but not for others.
The iPad "replaced" laptops for some people, and the Surface has the potential to do that for the same people and more. Professionals, creatives, gamers, etc. which are a pretty large group of people.
I just realized the intel version weights 2 pounds (903 gram). That is way way too heavy. Most Atom 10" netbook weights 2 pounds, the ones that have 3 cell battery.
Now take out your netbook and try to hold it in one hand, in landscape position, see how long you can hold it. Its not going to work. Its way too heavy. IMO if MS can't figure how to run windows in more power efficient Medfield chip, they shouldn't bank on it.
Now take out your netbook and try to hold it in one hand, in landscape position, see how long you can hold it. Its not going to work. Its way too heavy. IMO if MS can't figure how to run windows in more power efficient Medfield chip, they shouldn't bank on it.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Watching the keynote now, that digital ink thing with the pen looks amazing.
Digital pens on the iPad are janky as fuck.
Digital pens on the iPad are janky as fuck.
That's actually a huge usability issue because you have to jump back and forth between the screen and the keyboard making them significantly less usable. A great example of what good hardware/software synergy buys you.
Dreams-Visions
Member
With the exception of managing music for other devices, all of those things can be done on an iPad. I most certainly can import pictures and edit them on my iPad, I can create/edit just about any kind of document I can think of, etc. But indeed there are limits that the Pro Surface doesn't have.
Then again, we're expecting the Surface to be in that $1000 range, so it's catering to a different market entirely and should have significantly more functionality. For $1000, there are a lot of products available to consider. If the Pro surface were $600, it'd be a game-changer. But it's not, so it isn't. It's just MS' branded tablet, and there will be many viable alternatives out by the time this actually launches in Feb/March of 2013.
Considering how sweet Samsung has been designing their ultrabooks, I expect them to make a superior design anyway.
The pro model to me at least seem to be made used in landscape mode holding them in 2 hands most of the time. 16:9 in portrait just feels weird.
MarkMclovin
Member
You've listed 3 things that an ipad and laptop can do. There must be hundreds of more basic things that laptops can do that the ipad can't. This is what Microsoft have come up with, for that reason.
Gamers?
Have you tried gaming on a ULV i5 laptop with integrated graphics?
At best it'll run your 2D games and pre-2005 PC games, all the while blowing it's fans like crazy and sucking your battery completely dry.
Gamers with 1000$+ to blow don't waste it on this when they could get a real powerful laptop instead if they are so adamant on "gaming on the go". I'm not at all convinced they'll favor the tablet formfactor at the expense of all that power and money.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Indeed, trying to draw in Sketchbook Pro is awful.
Scalemail Ted
Member
Yeah but a lot of tools currently available for content creation for iOS are incredibly limited. Just finding a Half decent word processor was a pain (still not happy with what's there).... I still don't have one compatible with my printer
The RT will have about the same impact on most users computing routines as the Ipad did, it´s not a fully fledged desktop environment and in some aspects it´s even more limited than the Ipad in terms of what users are and aren´t able to do with it.
I´m expecting MS is going to have huge problems marketing these things to most users. Many will go in expecting a desktop environment on the RT, especially if it´s launched well before the pro version.
Think the Surface Pro is more of a Mac Air/Ultrabook. It is light compare to those and you get the added benefit of a tablet mode.
You can use the windows 8 metro ui with your mouse right now in the preview builds and it works just fine. Using desktop apps with just the screen is going to be a pain in the ass though. But most of the time when you would use desktop apps (like office) you would want the keyboard attached anyway so you get the touchpad and thus a way to move your mouse cursor around the screen with precision.
I was agreeing with this. I'm saying iOS keyboards are awkward because it doesn't have pointer support.
I really don't understand what the fuck RT is, and Microsoft should really do a better job of explaining that to people who aren't stalking the Verge or other tech sites 24/7. I mean, call it Home and Professional if you have to. Why is it a weird acronym?
Isn't RT the one where you can switch between metro mode and the regular Windows desktop? Or is that the pro one?
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
fair point.
Also now that I think about it, how does the magnetic keyboard fold over if I want to use it tablet style... ? I can do that with the hard one right? Or do I have to clip it off?
RT is the metro only one. no desktop and desktop applications, only metro applications. the shit one.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Do you really think everyone holds an iPad with one hand for any serious length of time?
Neko Mimi Mode
Member
You don't know what price it will be and your view about whether it will be a game changer seems to be against the tide of public opinion. So much so indeed I'd put it down to an irrational and unfounded fear that if the Surface Pro takes off then somehow your iPad purchase loses legitimacy.
The Surface Pro can be $1000 for all I and many people care, if it has the functionality then it can replace both iPad and laptop in one fell swoop and for that reason it's an investment.
He is thinking about it the wrong way. Surface Pro is Microsoft`s Mac Air.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Nope, forehand if I have to stand or on my leg/lap when I'm sitting.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I don't think it's replacing a "creative's" laptop. I doubt it'll have the kind of memory "creative" people now expect (16GB range). I don't know any "creative" people that want to use Intel graphics (as nicely as they are coming along) to transcode Adobe Premiere videos or edit 1.5GB Adobe Photoshop files. Certainly no "creative" person is going to want to install 3D Studio Max or Maya on this. And now that I think about it, they wouldn't want to install ProTools on it or otherwise try to mix and master music. So what creative people are you talking about?
Also, it's been clarified earlier in the thread that beyond games like Bastion, Limbo, Half Life 2 and similar games, the setup in these tablets aren't going to offer framerates that will make gamers happy. So sure, for smallish, indie games it'll be fine...though it also must be said that those (Steam) games aren't designed for touch anyway, thus losing some convenience.
That said, I agree that the group of people for whom this could replace a laptop is larger than the iPad market. Then again, that's always been true of TabletPC's, of which I own an HP Elitebook TabletPC. But let's not get carried away with thinking all of these broad professions will look at this and see a device that can replace their hardware. Extend it, perhaps. But not replace it. For regular home users that don't do much, it'll be good.
We know it's not going to be $600 for damn sure. Projecting a price range isn't rocket science, you know.
Also, money is no object to me. I have iPads, touch pads, Tablet PC's, custom built desktop PCs, Macs. There is nothing irrational about what I'm saying because I'll own it all (unlike you, perhaps). My thoughts are my objective opinions, and I have no emotional feelings either way. It's just stuff...that I buy.
I'll have another TabletPC when Windows 8 comes out, whether that's a surface or an Icona or Lenovo or whatever is deemed to be the best. Just like everything else I buy. There will be no shortage of tablet options that do exactly what you're describing. It's just a matter of whether or not it does anything BETTER that will determine whether the masses think $1000 is a fair price to pay. Few will buy a jack of all trades and master of nothing. Except people like us, who buy tech because we can.
You simply fold it to the other side. I'm sure the Type Cover (hard one) does exactly the same.
RT is Windows for ARM processors (ie cheap fully integrated devices like tablets). Since legacy x86/x64 apps don't run on ARM it supports new Metro-style apps only.
That's really all it is. People have apparently taken to this stupid idea that not having x86 apps makes it worthless.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Quite. And if this tablet only supported x86 Apps we have have the exact same people arguing why it didn't have ARM support.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Remind me how many WinRT apps there are again? I forgot.
The "how do you use this on your laptop?" comment actually makes a very good point. This keyboard/stand doesn´t seem at all compatible to using this thing on anything but a flat even surface i.e desk, table
Hmm, would really like to have a try at the pro version and see for myself how portable the keyboard use actually is.
Hmm, would really like to have a try at the pro version and see for myself how portable the keyboard use actually is.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Remind us how many iPad apps there were for the original on release? Not including 'upscaled' iPhone ones.
Metro App wise no doubt will be amazing once the transition period is over, but backing for it right now is useless. Though like Windows Phone there will be a solid amount of apps, just depends what you want to do.
Plus there's Cocktail Flow. Fuck yeah!
In comparison to Windows 8, the lack of x86 apps kinda does make RT seem like a bad gen 1 purchase. Maybe this time next year everything you want to use on a tablet will have a metro version, but day 1 it's probably not going to be much better than the touchpad, will be better than the playbook though because it does at least do email.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Same thought I had as well. MS even said it would be priced similar to ultrabooks aka Windows verses of an Air.
So the question now is how long till we get more concrete info like more specs, pricing, if the keyboard is in the box, release date etc...
Windows 8 is going to be on millions of PCs this Holiday, so the metro apps are coming.
You didn't forget, the platform hasn't released yet.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
The difference being that Apple had a successful App Store ecosystem at the time.
Microsoft haven't. At all.
brotkasten
Member
I don't know. The Windows Phone Marketplace isn't a gigantic success like the App Store, but it's doing pretty well.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
tablets could be very good for their win7 phone line as well. apps will migrate through to win7 and win7 phone might actually end up with a good app store as a result.
Windows Phone is doing alright, not amazing, but alright. Most people have taken WP7 apps and made them for Win8 like Cocktail flow.
Wiktor
Member
Most people do not use tablets while holding them in the air for extended periods of time. Even iPad is way to heavy for that.
Diablohead
Member
A little expensive for the win 8 version, has there been any cpu/gpu powers mentioned yet?
I only use my pc for browsing, my work and maybe some pc exclusive games otherwise I game on my 360 and ipad/ipod, so I am hugely interested in a windows tablet next year, I love how it can also run regular pc software which is a sale maker for me.
I only use my pc for browsing, my work and maybe some pc exclusive games otherwise I game on my 360 and ipad/ipod, so I am hugely interested in a windows tablet next year, I love how it can also run regular pc software which is a sale maker for me.
Theres about just as many apps as the Windows 8 RT sales number at this time.
radioheadrule83
Banned
It hasn't really shipped yet, so not a lot, but they can draw from the well of WP7 applications and ideas for a start - because porting from that platform will be relatively easy...
WinRT is the runtime behind Metro apps on both x86 and ARM -- developers are DEFINITELY going to target apps to that, because you're not just reaching phone users or tablet users, you can potentially reach all Microsoft users with apps designed for the one runtime environment.
For anyone interested:
Porting apps
Porting an iPad app to a Metro app Focused on design, this article explains how to transition between the iPad and Metro user experiences.
Rethinking a web site as a Metro app - This article is also focused on design, but shows the process of redesigning a web site as a Metro app.
Porting web sites:
Migrating a web app to Metro app This one is focused on the development and conversion of a web app to a Metro app using HTML and JavaScript.
Migrating a web site to Metro app Another short article, this one discusses issues youll run into around communication, streaming, security, client package deployment, data sharing, and syndication while migrating a web site to Metro.[/url]
Porting a Windows Phone app
Migrating a Windows Phone 7 app to XAML Metro app This article examines how one can port a Silverlight Windows Phone 7 app to a Metro app that is written with XAML. It discusses the differences between the WP7/Silverlight and Windows RT namespaces and provides a useful list of the differences in the UI capabilities of each.
Migrating a Windows Phone 7 app to JavaScript Metro app This article examines porting a Windows Silverlight-based Phone 7 app to a Metro app that is written in HTML and JavaScript.
Well no, the real difference was that apple had no competition, so it didn't matter that the iPad took at least a year to become a really useful device.
But MS have an advantage that Blackberry and HP didn't have which is that in x86 they have another ecosystem that will reach a huge market that can drive development of apps that are compatible with RT, so just like the iPad, RT doesn't have to do well out of the gates to get that vital developer support.
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