maybe he's talking about high schoolers, kids in college, people with hobbies, or even recent grads. you don't begin being a "creative" with editing 1.5GB photoshop files, nor do all professionals even end up there.
Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
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maybe he's talking about high schoolers, kids in college, people with hobbies, or even recent grads. you don't begin being a "creative" with editing 1.5GB photoshop files, nor do all professionals even end up there.
Well, last time I checked WP7 Marketplace had 100.000 apps. Its not the same marketplace, I know, but I believe MS is doing its best to make portability relatively easy. If there's one thing you can count on with Microsoft its top notch developer support. Plus, they've been revealing Win8 for at least half a year now and I'm pretty sure there's quite a few developers who are willing to anticipate the platform.
Aside from the material type, oems are already making really nice differentiated tablets/hybrids/convertibles though.
It's not a secret, here's their cross-licensing deal made public when Microsoft bought $150 million in Apple shares (Section 5.6):
http://contracts.corporate.findlaw.com/planning/purchase/971.html
Scalemail Ted
Member
It's always nice to have another option with the active digitizer. A feature that just doesn't get enough love.
The WinRT runtime is on desktops and laptops, that means its guranteed to have at least a 200 million user base. Developers will come.
Also, FYI the dev tools were given out last september.
Battery life would probably be a bit better than a traditional laptop but nothing like a traditional tablet.
Well if you want to say it compares favorable to Ultrabook that 's fine. You don't use your laptop by holding it in your hands. It can be 3 pounds and its still pretty light for a laptop.
2 pound is still too heavy for a tablet. iPad3's 1.5 lbs weight is already too much IMO. I would only consider the iPad 2 myself. I hope the Surface Pro version doesn't generate a lot of heat. If it does its very uncomfortable to hold.
Well, seeing that the Slate 7 didn't make it past 3.5 hours on medium use, I don't see how the Surface will do much better.
I wish you people would stop with this shit. Just because people under-use their computers does not mean a limited device is a replacement for a computer.
Thing is, I bet 90% of the world's population under-uses their computers.
i would think that number is low
Technosteve
Banned
Stop arguing about what demographics will buy this thing. If its a good product people will buy it.
Zune HD was a fantastic product, your argument is invalid.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
but he's right. a dumb device with access to the cloud is a very very viable alternative for a large amount of people. a limited device is a very real replacement idea. Just because you personally don't believe it doesn't mean it's not true and evidenced very clearly.
brotkasten
Member
Again, the Slate 7 got an older, bigger and more power-consuming CPU than whatever the Surface Pro will get.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Well, for what's worth, the Surface Pro has a 42Wh battery. For comparison, the Air 11 uses a 35Wh one while the Air 13 clocks at 50Wh.
The processor is gonna be the same as in the Air 11 most probably, a 1,7ghz dual core ivy bridge, so that's equal. Screen is smaller but higher res, so more power-hungry.
My estimation: 5-6 hours of battery life, supposing W8 is as good with power management as Mac Os X.
it has a slightly smaller battery, slightly bigger screen, and sandy bridge cpu right? but yeah, after typing that out, you're probably right :/
is the surface pro going to be anything other then an i5 ivybridge ULV? whats the size of its battery in relation to the ultrabooks that are out there with tested battery life running the same chipset?
I'm still pissed at Microsoft for not releasing the Zune HD in Norway.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Correct, much better than any of the iPod range.
Bomber Bob
Banned
better than an iPod touch?
If you discount the app store, yes.
Keylime
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So the Surface Pro seems like a pretty stellar device...but I can't shake the feeling that it's just an Ultrabook in Tablet clothes.
+ Digitizer for you pen-inclined folks
+ Great keyboard cover idea
- It's 2 pounds (heavy for a tablet...people already don't love the 1.4 pounds of the iPad)
- The keyboard cover is useless on your actual lap
- No announced battery specs
- No announced price
...other than this, it's just a Windows 8 tablet like every other. It's basically just a heavy/powerful tablet with digitizer for the few people that would want one with a great portable keyboard solution for desks (not laps).
I was incredibly impressed with Microsoft at the conference announcement, but again, I can't shake the feeling that this is just MS achieving above our expectations, but not actually delivering a product that makes sense for the everyday consumer.
Businesses will likely leap on these. Consumers, I'm not so sure.
+ Digitizer for you pen-inclined folks
+ Great keyboard cover idea
- It's 2 pounds (heavy for a tablet...people already don't love the 1.4 pounds of the iPad)
- The keyboard cover is useless on your actual lap
- No announced battery specs
- No announced price
...other than this, it's just a Windows 8 tablet like every other. It's basically just a heavy/powerful tablet with digitizer for the few people that would want one with a great portable keyboard solution for desks (not laps).
I was incredibly impressed with Microsoft at the conference announcement, but again, I can't shake the feeling that this is just MS achieving above our expectations, but not actually delivering a product that makes sense for the everyday consumer.
Businesses will likely leap on these. Consumers, I'm not so sure.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I think so.
I owned both and found the Zune to be much more reliable (software/hardware).
And I loved the overall design/feel of the Zune.
i used extensive google-fu to answer my question.
Asus Ultrabook Prime - 50wh - 6:30 with a 13" 1920x1080p display with the i7 version. So if it stays above 6h thats pretty good (with the drop in wh but the drop in processor)
brotkasten
Member
Microsoft wasn't very specific about the CPU used in the Pro, which surprised me, to be honest. That's what they said during the presentation: "Uses less power than today's Core i5 chips. 3rd generation."
Why did you ignore their consumer device, the Surface?
well... i dont think the ULV version is actually fully released yet, so i'm curious if they were using that. I dont think intel has a roadmap for their next chip before Jan though, unless its just a further undervolted ivybridge.
Technosteve
Banned
Zune's marketing was pretty horrible.
Keylime
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The consumer device is just another Windows 8 tablet through and through with a cool keyboard case. Still no price or battery announcement with it, so I have no idea where they plan to put themselves.
To me, the Pro is the real star of the show and something worth discussing. The vanilla Surface is just a Windows 8 tablet. A cool looking, keyboard cover having Windows 8 tablet. I never thought Windows 8 tablets were going to make a splash in the market, so I don't suspect this one will be that much different.
The Pro is at least trying to leverage the productivity gains of the full Windows experience which potentially makes it very attractive to students and businesses immediately. I see a market for the Pro, where I see the Vanilla just being another fish in the sea.
Edit: Just to be clear, I think the Pro is a really cool device. I'm just not sold on it as an actual tablet vs. just an ultrabook in tablet clothes. What I mean by that is that as a tablet (a thing you hold in your hand and poke at with fingers), it's heavy, has unknown battery life, is thicker than other tablets, will probably cost significantly more and have a lower resolution screen. Using it as a tablet will only be something you CAN do...but not something I see very many PREFERRING to do.
Yes it does. That's exactly what it means. You need to get over this argument.
FieryBalrog
Member
If this product is well made, and there's any justice in the world, this will completely eat Apple's lunch. It's a macbook air combined with an iPad, and strictly superior to either.
Apple had every chance in the world to do this with the iPad, but their approach was so lazy. An iPad is just an iPod touch scaled up. They didn't give you an actual powerful computer with a fully featured OS, they didn't give you fully featured hardware with USB and so on, and they didn't give you the possibility of a laptop form factor.
Apple had every chance in the world to do this with the iPad, but their approach was so lazy. An iPad is just an iPod touch scaled up. They didn't give you an actual powerful computer with a fully featured OS, they didn't give you fully featured hardware with USB and so on, and they didn't give you the possibility of a laptop form factor.
So.... NOw that I've slept on it , I have some thoughts
1) I really do like the design of the tablet and the hing
2) I wish it had a full SD slot and not a micro or if we have to have a micro make it two micro sd slots
3) I wish this had an amd apu or a seperate graphics chip from amd/nvidia .
4) Ram is going to be a killer. I'm thinking it will have 4 gigs while i'd have liked at least 6 gigs.
I have to wait and see what other companys actually release later this fall but those are some things that might stop me from buying .
1) I really do like the design of the tablet and the hing
2) I wish it had a full SD slot and not a micro or if we have to have a micro make it two micro sd slots
3) I wish this had an amd apu or a seperate graphics chip from amd/nvidia .
4) Ram is going to be a killer. I'm thinking it will have 4 gigs while i'd have liked at least 6 gigs.
I have to wait and see what other companys actually release later this fall but those are some things that might stop me from buying .
I disagree, I think we're heading more in his direction that not - people won't want multiple devices, if they can have a true portable device like this (let's be honest, it's like a hybrid of a MacBook Air and iPad) which is flexible in terms of connecting devices (monitors/printers/mouse/keyboard/drawing tablets) and something which runs a full OS.
Yes, people value simplicity, and yes, I think the market is going that way, but that's why Windows 8 with Metro could be perfect, it would combine the best parts and simplicity of a tablet, but also the option of a full OS if necessary.
His file browser concerns are valid also IMO, I hope at some point there will be a semi-usable file browser built into my iPad, not into the core file system (will let the clever guys on Cydia deal with those things) but just a documents folder for example would be nice.
As of right now I couldn't use the surface or surface pro for work like I do the iPad.
It's not strictly superior to either. It's a merging of the two elements with some of the advantages and downsides of both. It's a new option and we'll see if people are interested in it.
I think it could definitely have appeal on the corporate side but I think the trade-offs will be too much for most consumers. Of course, that's probably why they made the base tablet.
Lol. People are still disregarding the iPad as nothing but "a scaled up iPod touch"? What is this, 2010 all over again?
The Surface Pro will maybe align better with your personal needs than an iPad or MBA does, nothing wrong with that, but calling it "strictly superior" before people even had a hands-on with the thing is laughable. We know nothing about real-world power, battery life, build quality, app support, user experience, price or release date.
Kung Fu Jedi
Member
Or it is an in-between product that doesn't compete well with either an Air or an iPad. That has yet to be seen.
I think the Surface tablet looks great and I'm impressed with what Microsoft has brought to the table, but there are still a lot of unanswered questions. Say what you will about Apple being "lazy" with the iPad, the market has spoken and the thing is a huge hit. If MS is going to take a bite out of Apple's sales, they're going to have to be competitively priced, have battery life that is similar and demonstrate that their product delivers something consumers want.
I'm not sure what "justice in the world" has to do with any of that.
How many of those 200 million will have touchscreens or even want to use metro apps in the first place when they have full blown windows available?
How do you use a multitouch gesture based app on a device with a keyboard and mouse without a touchscreen?
If OSX could run iOS apps, do you think that would make a difference in their sales? Do you see people dying to run iOS apps on their macs?
brotkasten
Member
Metro apps are required to work with touchscreens and keyboard/mouse.
I dunno , can you tell us and while your at it can you give me the power ball's numbers for this week?
I don't see what the diffrence between a touch screen and a mouse is in terms of app support. They both click on the object that needs to be interacted with.
Keylime
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I think even that showcases the extreme difference in thinking behind something like the iPad and Surface.
"Make a great tablet" is much easier than "make a great tablet that is also a great traditional computer". I think the Pro is a great crack at it, but I'm not convinced at the moment that W8 + Surface Pro is going to be the best of both worlds. Instead of being awesome at both, it'll be OK at both...and whether that's enough for folks at large is something we'll have to see.
Could you play Angry birds or pocket planes on the Zune?
FieryBalrog
Member
That's why I said "if it's well made".
Yes, the iPad IS just a scaled up iPod touch. It's the same utterly simplistic phone OS on a device that is supposed to be a mobile computer, with completely shitty task-switching, file organization, etc. It also has a terrible form factor for productivity. The iPad really isn't good for much besides media consumption and browsing. I've used one extensively. They don't even give you USB to open it up; Apple, in typical arrogant fashion, wants complete control over your experience.
brotkasten
Member
Could you play AudioSurf Tilt on your iPod/iPhone? No, you couldn't. Does it matter? Nope.
I think asking that question is more relevant than the leap of assuming full developer support for rt
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