Microsoft Surface Tablet announced

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I don't see the "Pro" as anything more than a legacy product, similar to those DVD/VHS combo players. The future is RT and Metro at Microsoft. The RT will outsell it at least 10:1.

It's a broken model to be able to install an OS on any hardware you want, it gives more trouble than what it's worth. Most people want devices that just work and that's why Apple is very successful. MS realizes this, and there is a reason why the desktop is called the legacy and completely stripped out from the RT version. The future is RT.

I know this because today I needed to run telnet from the command window in a Windows 7 machine. First it told me that it wasn't installed. I googled, and it said enable it from the Programs and Features menu. When I opened that up to turn windows features on and off, I got a blank list. Excellent, then I googled some more, which told me to run some command line function, which didn't work, and then to do a system restore, which I won't do, so I gave up and ran telnet from another Mac OS X machine terminal. I could have also downloaded putty, but I really wanted a commandline that I could manually type the telnet command in with a specified port.

This is pure bullshit. This is exactly the reason why people want iPads or in general computers that they can't fuck up by mistake in a walled garden. WinRT is MS's answer to this issue.
 
coldfoot said:
I don't see the "Pro" as anything more than a legacy product, similar to those DVD/VHS combo players. The future is RT and Metro at Microsoft. The RT will outsell it at least 10:1.

It's a broken model to be able to install an OS on any hardware you want, it gives more trouble than what it's worth. Most people want devices that just work and that's why Apple is very successful. MS realizes this, and there is a reason why the desktop is called the legacy and completely stripped out from the RT version. The future is RT.

I know this because today I needed to run telnet from the command window in a Windows 7 machine. First it told me that it wasn't installed. I googled, and it said enable it from the Programs and Features menu. When I opened that up to turn windows features on and off, I got a blank list. Excellent, then I googled some more, which told me to run some command line function, which didn't work, and then to do a system restore, which I won't do, so I gave up and ran telnet from another Mac OS X machine terminal.

This is pure bullshit. This is exactly the reason why people want iPads or in general computers that they can't fuck up by mistake in a walled garden. WinRT is MS's answer to this issue.
Click to expand...
In all this googling you didn't come across putty?
Seems like that would be easier.
 
captive said:
In all this googling you didn't come across putty?
Seems like that would be easier.
Click to expand...

Nope Windows Desktop is OVER!

One thing I wish they would do with Windows 8 is to let you turn off the suspended Metro apps style multitasking when your machine is plugged into a wall outlet. I will never use some of these apps on my desktop because of it.
 
coldfoot said:
I don't see the "Pro" as anything more than a legacy product, similar to those DVD/VHS combo players. The future is RT and Metro at Microsoft. The RT will outsell it at least 10:1.
Click to expand...

I also think the RT will be a lot more popular as it's more in line with what people want/expect from a tablet - thin and lightweight, touch optimized apps, great battery life.

Surface Pro seems like more of a stopgap solution until they can get all the apps transitioned over to Metro. I don't think there will be a huge market for it.
 
coldfoot said:
I don't see the "Pro" as anything more than a legacy product, similar to those DVD/VHS combo players. The future is RT and Metro at Microsoft. The RT will outsell it at least 10:1.

It's a broken model to be able to install an OS on any hardware you want, it gives more trouble than what it's worth. Most people want devices that just work and that's why Apple is very successful. MS realizes this, and there is a reason why the desktop is called the legacy and completely stripped out from the RT version. The future is RT.

I know this because today I needed to run telnet from the command window in a Windows 7 machine. First it told me that it wasn't installed. I googled, and it said enable it from the Programs and Features menu. When I opened that up to turn windows features on and off, I got a blank list. Excellent, then I googled some more, which told me to run some command line function, which didn't work, and then to do a system restore, which I won't do, so I gave up and ran telnet from another Mac OS X machine terminal. I could have also downloaded putty, but I really wanted a commandline that I could manually type the telnet command in with a specified port.

This is pure bullshit. This is exactly the reason why people want iPads or in general computers that they can't fuck up by mistake in a walled garden. WinRT is MS's answer to this issue.
Click to expand...
what. are you for fucking real? all the applications business made 20+ years ago gone. how can you say this kinda shit and expect to be taken seriously.
 
goomba said:
Any word if the RT will support remote desktop connections?, if so no need to get a pro imo.
Click to expand...
yes it will support Remote Desktop. Although i'm not sure if you can remote into it, i remember previous home versions of windows having that limitation.

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/.../04/16/announcing-the-windows-8-editions.aspx

edit: looks like Pro only has the host and client. Windows 8 (home) and RT just have client. and although RT isn't as full featured for the business environment in terms of management, it will apparently have management tools (along with windows phone) to make it more than just exchange stuff like the ipad. it will be somewhere between ipad and the full windows in terms of managing capabilities.
 
so for sure Windows RT can't join domains?..shitty.

Anyone know if you can authenticate to enterprise wireless like PEAP?
Currently windows home editions won't domain authenticate on our Corporate Wireless.
was really hoping Windows RT would at least connect to the wireless even if it can't join the domain
 
I'm almost wondering if Microsoft's surface is gonna be the wrong way to go, even tho it looks sexy as hell.

Looking at the Intel Atom Z2760 seems to have everything I want in the smaller form factor of the Surface RT , but with Full X86 support.

I know it won't be as fast as an i5 but i just want flexibility and portability.

intel-z2760-clover-trail-tablet-small-2.jpg


Sounds like it will come in 10inch tablet and 11inch hybrids.
Gonna have to look into some previews of them.
 
the more I read up on it the more confused I am that MS isn't gonna have an Clover Trail Surface.

The RT on the low end for the home consumer market,
Clover Trail as a mid range corporate/education platform,
and the Surface Pro for the high end market competing with Ultrabooks.
 
bloodydrake said:
the more I read up on it the more confused I am that MS isn't gonna have an Clover Trail Surface.

The RT on the low end for the home consumer market,
Clover Trail as a mid range corporate/education platform,
and the Surface Pro for the high end market competing with Ultrabooks.
Click to expand...
OEM's exist.
 
bloodydrake said:
I'm almost wondering if Microsoft's surface is gonna be the wrong way to go, even tho it looks sexy as hell.

Looking at the Intel Atom Z2760 seems to have everything I want in the smaller form factor of the Surface RT , but with Full X86 support.

I know it won't be as fast as an i5 but i just want flexibility and portability.

http://asset2.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/04/12/intel-z2760-clover-trail-tablet-small-2.jpg

Sounds like it will come in 10inch tablet and 11inch hybrids.
Gonna have to look into some previews of them.
Click to expand...
just saying. i wouldn't trust atom anything, if i were you. i seen people regret their atom purchase months after they buy them. just saying. who knows, maybe win8 will change all that.
 
Complex Shadow said:
just saying. i wouldn't trust atom anything, if i were you. i seen people regret their atom purchase months after they buy them. just saying. who knows, maybe win8 will change all that.
Click to expand...

I agree old atoms have been bad in net books..very underpowered.
Tho they work fine in things like Qnap Nas's

I won't buy one till some performance reviews are out of coarse.

However if its comparable to the WindowsRT version for metro apps and has full backwards compatibility.. I'm interested
 
bloodydrake said:
I'm almost wondering if Microsoft's surface is gonna be the wrong way to go, even tho it looks sexy as hell.

Looking at the Intel Atom Z2760 seems to have everything I want in the smaller form factor of the Surface RT , but with Full X86 support.

I know it won't be as fast as an i5 but i just want flexibility and portability.

intel-z2760-clover-trail-tablet-small-2.jpg


Sounds like it will come in 10inch tablet and 11inch hybrids.
Gonna have to look into some previews of them.
Click to expand...
Not sure if it's the Atom you're talking about but Asus announced their own Windows 8 Pro tablet / hybrid a couple weeks ago:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/4/3062279/asus-tablet-810-windows-8-tablet

11.6" Super IPS+, Pressure-sensitive Wacom digitizer, thinner than the new iPad. Not bad looking. 1366x768 screen though.

ETA: Just checked and it's the same chip, "Clovertrail"
 
Complex Shadow said:
just saying. i wouldn't trust atom anything, if i were you. i seen people regret their atom purchase months after they buy them. just saying. who knows, maybe win8 will change all that.
Click to expand...
Intel should really considering rebranding Atom.

The new processors are Atom in name only as far as performance is concerned.
 
Atom won't be interesting until Silvermont changes the architecture next year. The Atom of today is just an optimised and die shrunk version of the shitbook star of 2008.

Raistlin said:
Intel should really considering rebranding Atom.

The new processors are Atom in name only as far as performance is concerned.
Click to expand...
Nope, Intel has just pushed down the TDP envelope into SoC territory so the competition is weaker. The Atom core makes more sense placed against Cortex A9 than it ever did in a traditional x86 product.
 
And this is where my disdain for anything that isn't a high end desktop CPU comes to bite me in the ass.
<put on dunce hat>
So, dem atom chips, dem be good to run windows and stuff?
Like, would it be able to handle photoshop with reasonable performance?

fuck doing research.
 
Chichikov said:
And this is where my disdain for anything that isn't a high end desktop CPU comes to bite me in the ass.
<put on dunce hat>
So, dem atom chips, dem be good to run windows and stuff?
Like, would it be able to handle photoshop with reasonable performance?

fuck doing research.
Click to expand...
i am doing as much research as you on this, but i am gonna say no. atom is extremely low end. but again well see when win8 comes out, the new ones are suppose to be better and only atom in name according to raistalin but his avatar is a troll face, so i am not gonna trust him on that.
 
In terms of cpu performance


Ivybridge
Sandybridge
Trinity
Brazos
Atom


In terms of gaming
Trinity
Ivybridge
Sandybridge
Brazos
atom


I would't touch an atom with a ten foot poll right now. The only good thing is how small they are compared to the competition and thats really becuase it has a micron advantage over the Brazos which is amd's bobcat
 
Raistlin said:
There's nothing wrong with yearly refreshes, but there were two things I was thinking of when I posted. And both are the based on the rumor that Wayne will not ship until early 2013.

First, some are wondering if Surface is more about lighting a fire under OEM's asses than a true line of devices. Granted it looks like some of the people speculating on this are actually OEM's (in other words - they're hoping this is the case), but either way the rumor is out there. Based on the supposed Wayne slippage, that would mean the only models of the RT Surface we get will be sans Wayne. For me personally at least, that would suck.

Second, even if this does become a line, if we are to assume yearly updates and that Wayne is delayed ... that would mean Surface is basically launching at the worse time. Within a few months it will be 'obsolete'. There will be Android tablets on the market for 8 or so months running Wayne before Surface gets it.
Click to expand...

It all depends . Wayne was supposed to be Q4 2012/ Q1 2013 . However plans obviously changed when tegra 3 didn't hit the micron drop like it was supposed. Wayne may have been pulled foward. If its delayed into Second half of 2013 then its a non starter for the conversation since tegra 3+ would be the fastest tegra till then.

I think the conversation would go to what are the other RT machines running. It hardly matters if andriod has faster chips or ipads have faster chips since your not running the same software.
 
Failed HP Slate 500 behind Microsoft's Surface tablet ambitions

Last week's Surface launch from Microsoft wasn't the first time the company revealed its interest in tablet PCs. Aside from Bill Gates' Windows XP Tablet Edition in 2002, Microsoft also threw its weight behind a HP Slate project ahead of Apple's iPad launch. Unveiled at CES 2010, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer promised Windows 7-based tablets by the end of 2010, but HP's Slate 500 failed to deliver. Described as hot, thick, and a poor combination of hardware and software, one former Microsoft executive has revealed to The New York Times that HP's effort was "completely ruined."

HP reportedly "fumed at Microsoft" for not improving the Windows 7 touch user interface, or its clunky on-screen keyboard that was far from touch friendly. Microsoft had made several touch improvements to Windows 7 at the time, but, like its Windows Mobile software, they weren't enough for finger input. Instead, HP acquired Palm for $1.2 billion in April 2010, a decision that was fuelled by Microsoft's delayed Windows Phone software according to the NYT.

Microsoft attempted to work with other hardware partners to create iPad-like tablets, but "faith had been lost" at the company in its OEMs. The software giant started to investigate the necessary materials to create a unique tablet, discovering the lightweight magnesium metal that played an important role in Microsoft's Surface tablet unveiling. With the launch of its own tablet, it's clear that Microsoft didn't trust its OEMs to execute the company's tablet strategy alone — perhaps agreeing that its hardware partners are a risky aspect to Windows 8's success.
Click to expand...
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/25/3115641/failed-hp-slate-500-behind-microsoft-surface
 
eastmen said:
In terms of cpu performance


Ivybridge
Sandybridge
Trinity
Brazos
Atom


In terms of gaming
Trinity
Ivybridge
Sandybridge
Brazos
atom


I would't touch an atom with a ten foot poll right now. The only good thing is how small they are compared to the competition and thats really becuase it has a micron advantage over the Brazos which is amd's bobcat
Click to expand...

I get thats what we have now..but the new Clover Trail is dual core and suppose to be beefed up.
If its comparable experience/performance on Clover Trail using Windows 8 Pro to the Tegra 3 on RT ..why by the RT over it is what I'm saying.

I'm gonna be curious how it benches out when its released..no one seems to have one for testing yet..just OEMS
 
bloodydrake said:
I get thats what we have now..but the new Clover Trail is dual core and suppose to be beefed up.
If its comparable experience/performance on Clover Trail using Windows 8 Pro to the Tegra 3 on RT ..why by the RT over it is what I'm saying.
Click to expand...

Because it wouldn't, especially as soon as someone tried to actually use a piece of desktop x86 software. When the iPad 1 was released it made many mid tier PCs feel sluggish simply because the software environment was so pared back - this with a single ARM Cortex A8 core and 256MB of RAM, the sort of hardware that makes an Atom core seem extravagant. Subsequent iOS updates have made it feel a whole lot shittier; likewise, sub-par x86 hardware is going to feel like sub-par x86 hardware in any environment which could leverage the architecture's advantages. That's why Win RT exists in the limited form it does, and why Apple succeeds where PC OEMs have failed. Pairing hardware with appropriate software is something that only one company has paid mind to to date.
 
The current best dual-core ARM (Snapdragon S4 - Krait) vs Intel's single-core with hyper-threading Clover Trail Atom: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/570?vs=574

The Atom considered for tablets is a dual-core version of the same chip in that comparison. I'll say it'll probably compare well against any ARM-based WinRT-tablet, but severly lacking in performance compared to any Ivy Bridge-based Win8-tablet.
 
I think it really shows how much MS felt it necessary to stop the bleeding by pushing up the announcement, at the cost of showing hardware that was clearly not ready to fully demonstrate.
 
eastmen said:
It all depends . Wayne was supposed to be Q4 2012/ Q1 2013 . However plans obviously changed when tegra 3 didn't hit the micron drop like it was supposed. Wayne may have been pulled foward. If its delayed into Second half of 2013 then its a non starter for the conversation since tegra 3+ would be the fastest tegra till then.

I think the conversation would go to what are the other RT machines running. It hardly matters if andriod has faster chips or ipads have faster chips since your not running the same software.
Click to expand...
If Wayne comes out early 2013, then obviously there will be OEM RT machines using it well before of Surface refresh.
 
Gary Whitta said:
I think it really shows how much MS felt it necessary to stop the bleeding by pushing up the announcement, at the cost of showing hardware that was clearly not ready to fully demonstrate.
Click to expand...
I know some people are used to how Apple typically demos stuff, but that's now how most in the CE and PC industries do things.
 
Raistlin said:
I know some people are used to how Apple typically demos stuff, but that's now how most in the CE and PC industries do things.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the problems start when a company perceived as one of the few true Apple rivals steps up and does an event that looks almost exactly like an Apple event in every aspect... except having a finished working product.
 
jonremedy said:
The current best dual-core ARM (Snapdragon S4 - Krait) vs Intel's single-core with hyper-threading Clover Trail Atom: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/570?vs=574

The Atom considered for tablets is a dual-core version of the same chip in that comparison. I'll say it'll probably compare well against any ARM-based WinRT-tablet, but severly lacking in performance compared to any Ivy Bridge-based Win8-tablet.
Click to expand...

Most of those benches were GPU heavy, and the Z series Atom uses Power SGX, just like iPads.
 
bloodydrake said:
I'm almost wondering if Microsoft's surface is gonna be the wrong way to go, even tho it looks sexy as hell.

Looking at the Intel Atom Z2760 seems to have everything I want in the smaller form factor of the Surface RT , but with Full X86 support.

I know it won't be as fast as an i5 but i just want flexibility and portability.

intel-z2760-clover-trail-tablet-small-2.jpg


Sounds like it will come in 10inch tablet and 11inch hybrids.
Gonna have to look into some previews of them.
Click to expand...

whats the point of NFC if all of the options don't even have it
 
Gary Whitta said:
I think it really shows how much MS felt it necessary to stop the bleeding by pushing up the announcement, at the cost of showing hardware that was clearly not ready to fully demonstrate.
Click to expand...

Gary Whitta said:
Yeah, the problems start when a company perceived as one of the few true Apple rivals steps up and does an event that looks almost exactly like an Apple event in every aspect... except having a finished working product.
Click to expand...

It would be a problem if like apple the product was weeks away from launch. However most put mid oct as the launch date for windows 8. That puts the product at what 4 months or so away from launching ?

You also have to figure that this could be using a build of windows that no one outside of MS has been able to see and it might be another reason why there was no hands on time with the surface.


Its not as cut and dry as you want to make it. MS will be showing this device off again later in the year before its launch date and bloggers will get to play with it as much as they want. I bet it will happen in august or so
 
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