PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control

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Allard

Member
LOL. Romney ally, Bob McDonnell says we're not allowed to talk about Bain anymore:



So Romney's going to run on his record of providing UHC in Mass.?

Also, why the hell do the righties keep bringing up the Olympics?

That just... wow. So let me get this straight, we can't talk about his business executive experience, we can't talk about his government executive experience, we can't talk about his taxes because he hasn't released them, he has flip-flopped on just about every policy under the sun. What exactly does Romney want to project on to himself to get him elected when he doesn't appear to be proud of a damn thing he seems to have ever said or done?

This is just... I wasn't expecting him to flail this badly till debates, the fact he might even flailing message wise WORSE then Palin is just unbelievable.
 

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
That just... wow. So let me get this straight, we can't talk about his business executive experience, we can't talk about his government executive experience, we can't talk about his taxes because he hasn't released them, he has flip-flopped on just about every policy under the sun. What exactly does Romney want to project on to himself to get him elected when he doesn't appear to be proud of a damn thing he seems to have ever said or done?

This is just... I wasn't expecting him to flail this badly till debates, the fact he might even flailing message wise WORSE then Palin is just unbelievable.

Not Obama.
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
I can see what posts looked like before editing, you know (and how long it took to edit them).

Careful with sexist language in the future, please. It isn't allowed. If you have any questions about language and how it is moderated, feel free to PM me or another mod. Thanks.

LOL.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
I can see what posts looked like before editing, you know (and how long it took to edit them).

Fully aware of that, senor.

I'll refrain from that, but it's somewhat puzzling since I was saying the lady was dumb cause of her defense, not that she was dumb cause she was a lady.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Fully aware of that, senor.

I'll refrain from that, but it's somewhat puzzling since I was saying the lady was dumb cause of her defense, not that she was dumb cause she was a lady.

I think it was more the word for lady you used. Come on man, it's not the 50s any more.
 

pigeon

Banned
Yeah, I get that, but it's a dumb thing for them to bring up when you do a little digging.

Well, what else are they going to talk about, right? He can't talk about Massachusetts because of Obamacare. He can't talk about BCG because of that picture. He can't talk about Bain, obviously. He can't talk about the LDS, which means no college either, because he was at Brigham Young after his mission. He can't talk about running against Ted Kennedy because he got beaten by Ted Kennedy -- because of Bain. He can't even talk about HIGH SCHOOL because he held some guy down and cut his hair. That leaves one year at Stanford and the Olympics for them to talk about. That's literally the only two years of Romney's life that are safe to discuss if you're a Republican talking head.
 

Loudninja

Member
Romney: ‘I Don’t Recall’ Coming Back For Mass. Meetings
“I left Bain in February of 1999,” Romney said in an interview with CBS’s Jan Crawford on Friday evening. ”People can point out how - I was in Salt Lake City for three straight years. I don’t recall even coming back once to go to a Bain or management meeting. We were, I was out there running the Olympics and it was a full time job, I can tell you that.”

Romney testified to Massachusetts officials in 2002 that he maintained business ties during his Olympics work, undermining his argument that he had no connection to Bain Capital or related companies after 1999.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/romney-i-dont-recall-coming-back-for-mass
 
Seriously disgusted at the entire focus of this Bain controversy. It's ridiculous. Relinquishing managerial control does not mean you have to resign from a company. He was the owner, yes, but busy running the Winter Olympics. What's the problem?
 

Chumly

Member
Seriously disgusted at the entire focus of this Bain controversy. It's ridiculous. Relinquishing managerial control does not mean you have to resign from a company. He was the owner, yes, but busy running the Winter Olympics. What's the problem?
And he should be responsible for the company. I mean republicans blame the economy on the president and he can't force congress to do anything yet republicans say its his fault. Yet Romney isn't responsible for anything somehow when he's the president and CEO and he does have all the power he needs to make changes.
 

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan

CHEEZMO™;39822408 said:
"I did not have economic relations with that company."

Z2nvu.gif
 

AlteredBeast

Fork 'em, Sparky!
Romney is the definition of sleazy politician. It is sad that he is seen so favorably by Mormons, since he so unlike most that I know. Wolf in sheep's clothing.
 
And he should be responsible for the company. I mean republicans blame the economy on the president and he can't force congress to do anything yet republicans say its his fault. Yet Romney isn't responsible for anything somehow when he's the president and CEO and he does have all the power he needs to make changes.

No see that's a terribly analogy I see being thrown around. If the President could step down from the daily activities involved in being President and could decide to focus on running the Olympics and place someone else in charge in his wake, then perhaps a semblance of a parallel can be drawn. But we'd blame the new President for any subsequent fuck up.

Who the fuck blames Kennedy for LBJ?
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Seriously disgusted at the entire focus of this Bain controversy. It's ridiculous. Relinquishing managerial control does not mean you have to resign from a company. He was the owner, yes, but busy running the Winter Olympics. What's the problem?

I repeat:

How do you be owner, President, and CEO of your own company and not have ANY input? I get that it's fair to say that Romney may not have been responsible for day to day managerial duties, but did he not have ANY say in ANY major decision the company makes? Like buying companies? Selling companies? Massive layoffs? ANY of that?
 

Clevinger

Member
Acosta then challenged the former governor on the fact that in 2002, Romney testified in front of the Massachusetts Ballot Law Commission, that he returned to Massachusetts to attend a meeting with Staples, a company Romney helped create during his tenure with Bain Capital. “Isn’t that active participation at a Bain-related company?” Acosta asked.

“Actually, Staples at that point was an investment by Bain Capital,” Romney pushed back. “Bain Capital had already sold its shares, distributed its shares in Staples. So my involvement with Staples was entirely on a personal basis. I continued to be involved with the firm, but it was as a fiduciary for Staples, not representative of Bain Capital, because Bain Capital had no further interest in Staples at that point.”

She and I were just friends.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
No see that's a terribly analogy I see being thrown around. If the President could step down from the daily activities involved in being President and could decide to focus on running the Olympics and place someone else in charge in his wake, then perhaps a semblance of a parallel can be drawn. But we'd blame the new President for any subsequent fuck up.

Who the fuck blames Kennedy for LBJ?

Then Romney should have stepped down. And stopped collecting a paycheck. And stopped being listed in documents as still being in charge.
 
I repeat:

I don't know how much of a say he did have. Do you?

Then Romney should have stepped down. And stopped collecting a paycheck. And stopped being listed in documents as still being in charge.

lolwut? He OWNS the company. If you bought controlling share of Apple, and decided, intelligently, to let the current management go on with it as they have been, do you think you have to give up your dividends?
 

Chumly

Member
No see that's a terribly analogy I see being thrown around. If the President could step down from the daily activities involved in being President and could decide to focus on running the Olympics and place someone else in charge in his wake, then perhaps a semblance of a parallel can be drawn. But we'd blame the new President for any subsequent fuck up.

Who the fuck blames Kennedy for LBJ?

What? I have no idea what your trying to argue
 
Seriously disgusted at the entire focus of this Bain controversy. It's ridiculous. Relinquishing managerial control does not mean you have to resign from a company. He was the owner, yes, but busy running the Winter Olympics. What's the problem?

The problem is that Romney wants to have it both ways. He wants to take credit for the job creation record of Bain after 1999, including investments made after that year - all while disowning any involvement in layoffs or firings during the same period. To make matters worse, he remained president and CEO all through that period, even told committees that he flew back to MA to attend board meetings.
 

thefro

Member
lolwut? He OWNS the company. If you bought controlling share of Apple, and decided, intelligently, to let the current management go on with it as they have been, do you think you have to give up your dividends?

He still hired the current management, so even in that case he's still ultimately responsible as the owner.
 
I don't see why this stuff about Romney being in Utah full time and him also having been quoted as going back to Massachusetts for business meetings is a big deal or in the least contradictory.


If Romney can have 2 political positions at the same time, why can't he be in 2 places at the same time?

Seems wholly consistent to me.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I don't know how much of a say he did have. Do you?



lolwut? He OWNS the company. If you bought controlling share of Apple, and decided, intelligently, to let the current management go on with it as they have been, do you think you have to give up your dividends?

Wasn't he listed as CEO as well as owner? Isn't the parallel to your example Tim Cook? How can Cook keep his role as CEO and "let current management go on" running the company without him? It doesn't make sense.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
The problem is that Romney wants to have it both ways. He wants to take credit for the job creation record of Bain after 1999, including investments made after that year - all while disowning any involvement in layoffs or firings during the same period. To make matters worse, he remained president and CEO all through that period, even told committees that he flew back to MA to attend board meetings.

You know things are bad when PD won't even troll with it.
 
The problem is that Romney wants to have it both ways. He wants to take credit for the job creation record of Bain after 1999, including investments made after that year - all while disowning any involvement in layoffs or firings during the same period. To make matters worse, he remained president and CEO all through that period, even told committees that he flew back to MA to attend board meetings.
Its almost like he wants to privatize the gains while socializing the risks.
 
I don't know how much of a say he did have. Do you?



lolwut? He OWNS the company. If you bought controlling share of Apple, and decided, intelligently, to let the current management go on with it as they have been, do you think you have to give up your dividends?
He was also CEO and Chairman, not just owner
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
lolwut? He OWNS the company. If you bought controlling share of Apple, and decided, intelligently, to let the current management go on with it as they have been, do you think you have to give up your dividends?
....what? He's listed as the CEO. Last I checked that carries with it certain responsibilities and completely regardless of that point as long as he owns the company and controls who management is, any actions management takes have his implicit approval and are his responsibility unless he stops them. That's what comes with owing a company. Its not just free money because your name is on a deed somewhere.
 

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
I don't see why this stuff about Romney being in Utah full time and him also having been quoted as going back to Massachusetts for business meetings is a big deal or in the least contradictory.


If Romney can have 2 political positions at the same time, why can't he be in 2 places at the same time?

Seems wholly consistent to me.

Does he flip-flop on his superpositions?

Hmm.
 

kehs

Banned
I don't know how much of a say he did have. Do you?



lolwut? He OWNS the company. If you bought controlling share of Apple, and decided, intelligently, to let the current management go on with it as they have been, do you think you have to give up your dividends?

CEO

Chief Executive Officer.
 
The problem is that Romney wants to have it both ways. He wants to take credit for the job creation record of Bain after 1999, including investments made after that year - all while disowning any involvement in layoffs or firings during the same period. To make matters worse, he remained president and CEO all through that period, even told committees that he flew back to MA to attend board meetings.

Then call bullshit on his post 1999 job creation record.

Romney flying back for board meetings means squat. Anyone who has ever held a job in any organization knows that an executive flying back from quarterly board meetings is not at all running the daily affairs of the business.

Wasn't he listed as CEO as well as owner? Isn't the parallel to your example Tim Cook? How can Cook keep his role as CEO and "let current management go on" running the company without him? It doesn't make sense.

I didn't make that connection purposely. The organizational and hierarchal structures of a company like Apple and a PE firm are so completely different it isn't worth the comparison of CEO responsibilities.

....what? He's listed as the CEO. Last I checked that carries with it certain responsibilities and completely regardless of that point as long as he owns the company and controls who management is, any actions management takes have his implicit approval and are his responsibility unless he stops them. That's what comes with owing a company. Its not just free money because your name is on a deed somewhere.

And could you please tell me what these responsibilities are as outlined by the Bain Board of Directors? Because you do know that these responsibilities you're referring to are outlined by the BoD right? Unless you mean legal responsibilities. In which case, Romney did nothing illegal, so that's not even a consideration.
 
I don't know how much of a say he did have. Do you?



lolwut? He OWNS the company. If you bought controlling share of Apple, and decided, intelligently, to let the current management go on with it as they have been, do you think you have to give up your dividends?

He owns, runs, and signed off and everything that was done. You can't claim "er, well, I had no real part of it!" when you absolutely, very MUCH so had EVERYTHING TO DO with what went on.
 

Allard

Member
I don't know how much of a say he did have. Do you?



lolwut? He OWNS the company. If you bought controlling share of Apple, and decided, intelligently, to let the current management go on with it as they have been, do you think you have to give up your dividends?

He is the owner and thus the responsible party PERIOD. It doesn't matter what he thinks is fair, the buck stops at him. Any all actions made by him or the company is his responsibility, even the actions of the people left the company to. It comes with the territory, you can't be owner, majority shareholder, CEO and claim zero responsibility just because you handed it off to a dear friend, the only way you can sever that responsibility is selling your assets because in the end when government documents need to be signed to write off on investments, who do you think has to put the ultimate signature down? If he was just the main shareholder a little leeway could be understood, but he was the legally acting CEO too. For months, years even he has been trying to say the actions of his company after 1999 had nothing to do with him, that either shows a child like knowledge of the business world or lying through the teeth about his record.
 

pigeon

Banned
Seriously disgusted at the entire focus of this Bain controversy. It's ridiculous. Relinquishing managerial control does not mean you have to resign from a company. He was the owner, yes, but busy running the Winter Olympics. What's the problem?

He was the president, chairman, owner and CEO. There are literally no other top management positions for anybody else to have. Regardless of what he was "busy doing," he had complete power to stop, reverse, or confirm any given action taken at Bain. If he chooses not to exercise that power, and then says "Welp, I wasn't paying attention, so it doesn't count," I'm not sure that lets him off the hook.
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Why the Washington Post fact checker needs to be fired:

Washington Post Fact Checker Glenn Kessler, who has dismissed the significance of Mitt Romney's role at Bain Capital after 1999, announced yesterday that he would reconsider his assessment following the landmark Boston Globe report.

Today, he offers this:

Despite the furor, we did not see much new in the Globe article. We had examined many SEC documents related to Romney and Bain in January, and concluded that much of the language saying Romney was “sole stockholder, chairman of the board, chief executive officer, and president” was boilerplate that did not reveal whether he was actually managing Bain at the time. (For instance, there is no standard definition of a “chief executive,” securities law experts say, and there is no requirement for anyone to have any responsibilities even if they have that title.)

One more time, in case you missed it: "much of the language saying Romney was 'sole stockholder, chairman of the board, chief executive officer, and president' was boilerplate that did not reveal whether he was actually managing Bain at the time."

Brad De Long, the liberal economics professor and deputy assistant Treasury secretary under President Clinton, has called on Kessler to provide one example of another person who has simultaneously worn the four titles while claiming no responsibilities whatsoever with the business.


Stand by on that... though you may want to sit.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media...ps-the-shark-128872.html#.UABW_vXqPxg.twitter
 
He owns, runs, and signed off and everything that was done. You can't claim "er, well, I had no real part of it!" when you absolutely, very MUCH so had EVERYTHING TO DO with what went on.

Swingandamiss. The CEO and, often but not always, the majority shareholder have to sign off on any major financial decision being made.

Does this mean Romney had a complete play-by-play list of decisions made to reach the final transaction he had to sign off on? No.

Does it mean he requires that play-by-play? No.
 

dabig2

Member
I can't believe many people in the Democratic party were hesitant on attacking Romney on Bain. This is hilarious stuff so far, and I do wonder how far down the rabbit hole we get. Bain attack ads have been paying off in spades in some swing states, and that will probably only get worse from here on out. Every day we spend talking about Bain is another day we're not slitting our wrists over a shitty jobs report.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Swingandamiss. The CEO and, often but not always, the majority shareholder have to sign off on any major financial decision being made.

Does this mean Romney had a complete play-by-play list of decisions made to reach the final transaction he had to sign off on? No.

Does it mean he requires that play-by-play? No.

Glenn Kessler? Can you provide one example of another person who has simultaneously worn the four titles while claiming no responsibilities whatsoever with the business?
 

Allard

Member
Swingandamiss. The CEO and, often but not always, the majority shareholder have to sign off on any major financial decision being made.

Does this mean Romney had a complete play-by-play list of decisions made to reach the final transaction he had to sign off on? No.

Does it mean requires a play-by-play? No.

That just means he is an incompetent CEO who signs things he doesn't understand. Look I know its been said a lot but you don't get it. CEO means the actions of his company are his responsibility PERIOD. If he wants to be lazy and do something else that is his choice but he is not allowed to say he isn't responsible just because he doesn't exercise his rights.
 
Swingandamiss. The CEO and, often but not always, the majority shareholder have to sign off on any major financial decision being made.

Does this mean Romney had a complete play-by-play list of decisions made to reach the final transaction he had to sign off on? No.

Does it mean he requires that play-by-play? No.

...But we know he did.
 

Chumly

Member
I like how romney tries to move it back to obamas failed economy when considering Obama cannot implement anything without congress then by romneys thinking Obama should bear no responsibility for the economy
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I don't know how much of a say he did have. Do you?

It doesn't matter, at all. He was in charge.

In any context I can think of, if you are in charge and delegate your authority, but retain your position, and your delegate fucks up or does things that require accountability, you are ultimately held accountable for your subordinates because you are the person in charge. Period. End of story.

Romney was the CEO. He was the owner. He was the President of the company. He deliberately neither relinquished those roles (and associated salary), nor appointed an interim CEO to head the company while he was away. He kept the titles, and delegated tasks. That means he also kept the accountability.

There is no ambiguity here, and it does not matter how much he was or was not in the loop on major decisions. (And, incidentally, there is increasing evidence that he was still involved with key investment decisions. Important, but ultimately irrelevant to the point.)
 

tranciful

Member
A point some people seem to forget: He justified his eligibility for running for governor of Massachusetts partly based on the idea that he was still active in Massachusetts managing Bain. If he had claimed back then that he had no part in managing Bain, he may have been prevented from running for governor.

"...in the testimony, which was provided to The Huffington Post, Romney noted that he regularly traveled back to Massachusetts. "[T]here were a number of social trips and business trips that brought me back to Massachusetts, board meetings, Thanksgiving and so forth," he said.

Romney's sworn testimony was given as part of a hearing to determine whether he had sufficient residency status in Massachusetts to run for governor.

Romney testified that he "remained on the board of the Staples Corporation and Marriott International, the LifeLike Corporation" at the time."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/12/mitt-romney-bain-departure_n_1669006.html?ir=Politics

edit: though I guess he doesn't specifically mention 'Bain' board meetings
 
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