Gaming-Ryu
Member
Agreed. Ras' flashback should have been done better.
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- Thread starter shira
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Agreed. Ras' flashback should have been done better.
I wish there had been another minute or two. He was literally there for 20 seconds.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Kind of the same thing that happened upon repeat viewings of TDK then right?
First there was a high.
Then there was the come down.
You see his face for one second before the accident but that's it.
Gaming-Ryu
Member
Went to see this yesterday. It was pretty good and very epic but, unfortunately, the weakest of the three to me. I just think it could have been much better.
Critics that said the the movie is long and bloated and that there is only a "good 90 min movie" in there is non-sense. I think what the film really needs is to be longer to give the plot more room to breath and to add more scenes to elaborate on several plot points to lend them more weight and believability.
In particular, Nolan should have included more developments between Miranda/Talia and Bruce to make their love scene more believable and necessary. As it is, it seems tagged on. The film could also use more Selina/Bruce scene to make their hooking up together more real. Some more Bruce trainings to get back into the game at the beginning and in the prison wouldn't hurt either.
How about more time spent on the occupied island and the people trapped inside to make the situation more tense and the passage of time more apparent? Didn't really feel like the people were in any immediate danger and seems only several weeks has past.
And where is Alfred in all this, was he gone so far and for so long that he didn't even know Batman was rumored to be dead? No scene and reactions from him at all. The film could also use a better explanation on how Blake found out about Bruce/Batman.
I am starting to believe the rumor before release that there was a 3-4 hr cut of this film at one point. It was probably cut down due to Nolan's insistence on IMAX, which I think has a maximum run time of 170 min.
I like the film enough, and hopefully will like it even better on repeat viewings. But what I really want and hope for is a future Blu-ray release that contains a Director's or Extended Cut that perhaps can make the film better (a la Kingdom of Heavens).
I also like the ending, but would've like to see Bruce and Alfred together again as I think their relationship is the heart and soul of these films, rather than his dream of just walking away without even saying a word.
I love Nolan's Batman film and and enjoy all of his movies in general, so I couldn't help but feel a bit disappointed. I like it, but I really want to love it. First impressions, about an 8, and BB=TDK>>TDKR.
Critics that said the the movie is long and bloated and that there is only a "good 90 min movie" in there is non-sense. I think what the film really needs is to be longer to give the plot more room to breath and to add more scenes to elaborate on several plot points to lend them more weight and believability.
In particular, Nolan should have included more developments between Miranda/Talia and Bruce to make their love scene more believable and necessary. As it is, it seems tagged on. The film could also use more Selina/Bruce scene to make their hooking up together more real. Some more Bruce trainings to get back into the game at the beginning and in the prison wouldn't hurt either.
How about more time spent on the occupied island and the people trapped inside to make the situation more tense and the passage of time more apparent? Didn't really feel like the people were in any immediate danger and seems only several weeks has past.
And where is Alfred in all this, was he gone so far and for so long that he didn't even know Batman was rumored to be dead? No scene and reactions from him at all. The film could also use a better explanation on how Blake found out about Bruce/Batman.
I am starting to believe the rumor before release that there was a 3-4 hr cut of this film at one point. It was probably cut down due to Nolan's insistence on IMAX, which I think has a maximum run time of 170 min.
I like the film enough, and hopefully will like it even better on repeat viewings. But what I really want and hope for is a future Blu-ray release that contains a Director's or Extended Cut that perhaps can make the film better (a la Kingdom of Heavens).
I also like the ending, but would've like to see Bruce and Alfred together again as I think their relationship is the heart and soul of these films, rather than his dream of just walking away without even saying a word.
I love Nolan's Batman film and and enjoy all of his movies in general, so I couldn't help but feel a bit disappointed. I like it, but I really want to love it. First impressions, about an 8, and BB=TDK>>TDKR.
More that you pulled apart my initial reply into parts and defended each bit. And then are still defending now. And will probably go on to defend anyone else's criticisms. Badge earned!
Glad I'm not the only one that noticed this. I was asking my boyfriend about it afterwards and he didn't notice at all. Maybe it was just coincidences?
Nah, people are allowed to criticise. I've criticised myself in fact. I defended this stupid bit where you thought he was alive purely because Man-Bat turned up in a comic once so this is the same level of realism, I answered a question from my interpretation about the flaming bat (of which I'm happy to be proved wrong), and I thought the criticism of Bruce not making a running jump was ridiculous.
But yeah sure, let's hand out Internet defense badges like mature people.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
He was crushing/snapping their necks and choking them out. They just couldn't show it because it was PG13.
Liquidsnake
Banned
This really makes me sad. Reading everyone's letdown, is really killing my buzz.
Nope that's not what I'm talking about.
People seemed to freak out sometimes when he just touched them. When I see it again tomorrow I'll try to look out for the parts.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I need to see it again, obviously, but I thought this movie made good on its run-time. It wasn't self-indulgent for the most part, it was all there because the story needed it to be there. There were no moments like Tokyo in TDK or the ship-scene that, in hindsight, feel like bloat. (Granted, I do like the Tokyo stuff, in a vacuum.)
no, he wanted the fingerprints to crash the market and force Bruce to hand control of the company over to Tate. Dagett was just a diversion for anyone trying to trace Bane's motivations.
no, he wanted the fingerprints to crash the market and force Bruce to hand control of the company over to Tate. Dagett was just a diversion for anyone trying to trace Bane's motivations.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Absolutely not let down. There's some valid complaints here, but nothing that hasn't been present in other Nolan Batman films . I honestly think the general reaction to this movie is going to be overwhelmingly positive. When I walked out and was talking about it with friends and listening to other talk about it, I found it hard to imagine the word-of-mouth not going off the chart. I'm honestly kind of surprised at the negativity in here.
Well you'll find millions of people who hate TDK on the Internet and then you go out into the real world and I can't find anyone who doesn't like it. Same with Avatar.
It'll be the same here. But I completely agree with you, I've seen this film criticised for things TDK and BB also did. And I loved it just the same
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
His pants get ripped off and Gordon notices the same tattoo on his upper inner thigh as the weekend before in the S&M club.
My favourite part was the little flashback with the giant black dildo with bat shaped balls
Gaming-Ryu
Member
Oh, don't let people get you down. Go see it yourself and make your own judgement. It's definitely worth seeing.
It's a very good film, I just wanted it to be great (w/ some changes, it could've been). Besides, I am sure there are and will be plenty of people who like it more than I do.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
for example:
Random-water-guy: "If the train gets here, the water-main will blow. Wayne Tower is the center of the city."
Batman: "The train will blow up the water main if it gets there, it's connected to the rest of the city."
Five minutes later.
Water-guy: "By the way, audience, ticking clock. The water main. It's going to blow."
Other guy: "Why are we in this movie?"
Water-guy: "It's at the center of the city. The water main. Care about the water main."
Random-water-guy: "If the train gets here, the water-main will blow. Wayne Tower is the center of the city."
Batman: "The train will blow up the water main if it gets there, it's connected to the rest of the city."
Five minutes later.
Water-guy: "By the way, audience, ticking clock. The water main. It's going to blow."
Other guy: "Why are we in this movie?"
Water-guy: "It's at the center of the city. The water main. Care about the water main."
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I don't think any of the complaints I have with TDKR were present in BB.
Wasn't one of your complaints superfluous exposition? That water one isn't?
Not saying you do.
I just remember a comment from someone in the OT saying that BB has less cheese/exposition than TDK, which I found baffling.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
It wasn't superfluous exposition that I have a problem with, but the sheer amount of that exposition present in TDKR.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I appreciated what they did with Gordon's character. He should have been fucked up, paranoid and less-likable following what he went through in TDK. I felt like they could have easily cheated and just had him just be John Blake in this movie, but he wasn't that man anymore. He's the commissioner. He's had eight years to let that fester in him. Eight years to deal with running the police force in the most fucked up city on Earth. Eight years without Batman or anything like. Playing him as the idealist after Dent pointed a gun at his child's head would have been wrong. I really liked him in this movie. I liked what they did with Blake, short of the shitty "I can see it in your eyes scene".
Ah, my mistake.
There was a lot of it sure, but most of it seemed pretty vital to my recollection. Can't remember too much they could have dropped.
I really wish they'd dropped the sex scene. Probably the only problem I have with the film that isn't pretty nitpicky
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
you know, yeah, the Tate sex scene is kind of weird in hindsight. That came after she already had control of the company. How much more trust did she need from Bruce?
I loved his part except for him rattling around in the truck at the end, he could have been put to better use on something I suppose.
Yeah the Blake explanation wasn't great. But I can buy it if there had been another line saying that the coincidence of Batman and Bruce disappearing was too much.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
this, I would have bought. It's the big unsaid problem with Nolan's take on the series. Batman and Bruce disappearing and reappearing at the same time in Begins and TDKR should probably set off some alarm bells.
James Woods
Banned
I'm gonna copy these two posts from the CHUD forums because I think they are spot on and hilarious:
Post 1
So we have an objective, level a city, why again? Eco terrorism? I guess... even though launching a nuke is probably going to do significant damage to the city and the surrounding environment for decades. Oh well...
Regardless, we need a nuke. So instead of stealing one of the ten of thousands of nukes and dirty bombs stockpiled in countries all over the world we are going to weaponize a prototype new energy device. Yes, we willl have to find and then kidnap the one scientist in the world who has figured out how to do that, but yeah, that plan makes sense. Sort of. Why again? Cause its complicated and cool?
But to get this device, we are going to bankrupt the primary funder of this prototype device by forcing him to give control of the company and the research to our villan. How do we do this? Well we will launch a public attack on a stock exchange and then execute a series of financial transactions driving him into bankruptcy and forcing him to give control to our villian. How exactly would these transactions not be immediately reversed and cancelled? Why wouldn't all trades be immediately suspended? And even if it wasn't, how on earth are we to know our hero will provide access and control of the device to our villian?
So now we take the city. Again, I'm not sure why, given we already have a device, but blowing up things and seizing control of a major city looks cool. To garned the support (or compliance) of the local populace we then blow up their beloved football team and free 1000 of the worst criminals. Yeah, doesn't sound its going to inspire any kind of loyalty from the population at large, but whaterver.
And why do hardened evil doers join our suicidal cause? Bain is scary? They get guns? The League of Shadows has a comprehensive medical and dental plan? Oh nevermind...
Ok, so now we have the device and take an entire city hostage with a plan to detonate the device immediately if we are attacked, or if anyone leaves the city, or if 3 months go by! Say again???? We are seizing the city for three months to only blow it up anyways. Why? Cause we're evil and thats how we roll? We are making a political statement? A long winded 3 month long statement?
What a mess...
Second Post:
You barely touched upon the DUMBEST aspect of this "plan": Kicking it all off by "bankrupting" Bruce Wayne.
Beyond the stupidity of bankrupting a billionaire OVERNIGHT by making him invest in bad stock (because he surely wouldn't have money parked, Mitt Romney-style, in offshore accounts, tax havens, IRAs, and bonds), Wayne is comically turned into a pauper in what appears to be 2 hours the next morning, as his Lambo is repo'd (he's making payments on it? really? Or I guess a court convened in 120 minutes and submitted that any non-house assets are seized to satisfy his sketchy debts? Riiiiight) and his utilities are cut off a day later!
Has Christopher Nolan ever actually paid a bill?
But no...this isn't just to humiliate Bruce, but also to allow THE REAL VILLAIN - duh duh duh - to assume control of Wayne Industries and the nuclear core or whatever.......except that Bane and his men can easily coerce anyone leading the company to grant them access at gunpoint, and THEY DO EXACTLY THAT ANYWAY.
Meanwhile, how's broke life treating Bruce Wayne and Batman? We'll never know because the film completely ignores this! He can fuel and utilize any Bat devices at will, and even when he escapes "The Pit" with not a cent to his name, he somehow travels halfway across the world and gets a dashing Abercromie & Fitch-esque casual outfit to return to Gotham. Oh, and he does this despite the only way into the city being guarded by a heavily-armed Army unit. Did I mention that the bad guys know he's Bruce Wayne the entire time, yet don't destroy his Batsuits and devices once he's gone?
How and why exactly? Who cares? Nolan doesn't. Uggggh.
Post 1
So we have an objective, level a city, why again? Eco terrorism? I guess... even though launching a nuke is probably going to do significant damage to the city and the surrounding environment for decades. Oh well...
Regardless, we need a nuke. So instead of stealing one of the ten of thousands of nukes and dirty bombs stockpiled in countries all over the world we are going to weaponize a prototype new energy device. Yes, we willl have to find and then kidnap the one scientist in the world who has figured out how to do that, but yeah, that plan makes sense. Sort of. Why again? Cause its complicated and cool?
But to get this device, we are going to bankrupt the primary funder of this prototype device by forcing him to give control of the company and the research to our villan. How do we do this? Well we will launch a public attack on a stock exchange and then execute a series of financial transactions driving him into bankruptcy and forcing him to give control to our villian. How exactly would these transactions not be immediately reversed and cancelled? Why wouldn't all trades be immediately suspended? And even if it wasn't, how on earth are we to know our hero will provide access and control of the device to our villian?
So now we take the city. Again, I'm not sure why, given we already have a device, but blowing up things and seizing control of a major city looks cool. To garned the support (or compliance) of the local populace we then blow up their beloved football team and free 1000 of the worst criminals. Yeah, doesn't sound its going to inspire any kind of loyalty from the population at large, but whaterver.
And why do hardened evil doers join our suicidal cause? Bain is scary? They get guns? The League of Shadows has a comprehensive medical and dental plan? Oh nevermind...
Ok, so now we have the device and take an entire city hostage with a plan to detonate the device immediately if we are attacked, or if anyone leaves the city, or if 3 months go by! Say again???? We are seizing the city for three months to only blow it up anyways. Why? Cause we're evil and thats how we roll? We are making a political statement? A long winded 3 month long statement?
What a mess...
Second Post:
You barely touched upon the DUMBEST aspect of this "plan": Kicking it all off by "bankrupting" Bruce Wayne.
Beyond the stupidity of bankrupting a billionaire OVERNIGHT by making him invest in bad stock (because he surely wouldn't have money parked, Mitt Romney-style, in offshore accounts, tax havens, IRAs, and bonds), Wayne is comically turned into a pauper in what appears to be 2 hours the next morning, as his Lambo is repo'd (he's making payments on it? really? Or I guess a court convened in 120 minutes and submitted that any non-house assets are seized to satisfy his sketchy debts? Riiiiight) and his utilities are cut off a day later!
Has Christopher Nolan ever actually paid a bill?
But no...this isn't just to humiliate Bruce, but also to allow THE REAL VILLAIN - duh duh duh - to assume control of Wayne Industries and the nuclear core or whatever.......except that Bane and his men can easily coerce anyone leading the company to grant them access at gunpoint, and THEY DO EXACTLY THAT ANYWAY.
Meanwhile, how's broke life treating Bruce Wayne and Batman? We'll never know because the film completely ignores this! He can fuel and utilize any Bat devices at will, and even when he escapes "The Pit" with not a cent to his name, he somehow travels halfway across the world and gets a dashing Abercromie & Fitch-esque casual outfit to return to Gotham. Oh, and he does this despite the only way into the city being guarded by a heavily-armed Army unit. Did I mention that the bad guys know he's Bruce Wayne the entire time, yet don't destroy his Batsuits and devices once he's gone?
How and why exactly? Who cares? Nolan doesn't. Uggggh.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I wouldn't have bought that explanation from Blake, because then most everybody in Gotham should know Bruce is Batman.
The fact that the way they handled it was even stupider is mind blowing. Should have been a connection he made when stumbling across some old case files at the GCPD or some shit.
The fact that the way they handled it was even stupider is mind blowing. Should have been a connection he made when stumbling across some old case files at the GCPD or some shit.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
I assumed that, much like Applied Sciences being kept to the side, Batman and Wayne had money, but he was happy to let himself publicly been seen as bankrupt. Isn't there also a throwaway line about the transactions being reversed in time, or something?
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
yeah, I mean, it wasn't that Wayne himself was broke in the long-term (once everything is potentially reversed or appealing or whatever), it was that his company was being pursued by Dagget, so in the short-term, they needed someone to stave him off?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I was also wondering how the fuck Wayne got back to Gotham from India. Especially with no Alfred to pick him up!
Sewer system's a big one
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
speaking of Alfred, having him MIA for the entire second half of the film? Aw. I wanted more Alfred. 
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Having Maggie in the Rachel pictures made me sad.
Scarecrow
Member
He makes reference to the scene in BB when a young Gordon tried to comfort child Bruce after his parents are murdered.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
We have a new contender for weird, out-of-character, play for audience laugh moment
"I'M BATMAN."
*cut over to previously never shown in scene bum from twenty minutes earlier*
"NICE COAT."
vs.
"THASH WHAT THAT FEELSH LIKE."
and then a gratuitous flashback is thrown in. Why.
"I'M BATMAN."
*cut over to previously never shown in scene bum from twenty minutes earlier*
"NICE COAT."
vs.
"THASH WHAT THAT FEELSH LIKE."
and then a gratuitous flashback is thrown in. Why.
Callo Merlose
Banned
Yeah, I didn't like this either. I was waiting for more solid evidence, but really, just a look on his face gave it away? I loved how they reenacted panels straight from The Dark Knight Returns with the rookie and the veteran cop car.
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