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[rdrr gnr]

...No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eElrjr4Eb9Q

Flash is like a more comedic version of Batman. Flash is the hero we deserve, but we may not need him right now with everything having to be realistic and gritty now.

But, yeah. Batman Beyond puhleeez!

I grew up on that show. Much harder to do live-action. MM is still more interesting than Flash. And since when is everything realistic and gritty? Most of the Marvel films feel lighthearted and are filled with "humor."

the one person I can count on to have a similar opinion...my man shinobifist. < daps >

fuck these nerdy haters dawg. lol they cant enjoy shit.

Standards are bittersweet, friend.

Spoiler

I liked the film. I think.

 

[RBelong2Us]

and btw, Batman is not once a secluded lone vigilante in this series.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

A better question would be, why would anyone believe Bane when he read the letter on camera. He's just a masked criminal that's holding an entire city hostage. Not exactly a trustworthy and biased source of news.

I too thought it was a little weak at firts, but this was answered on my second viewing:



At Dent's memorial, he pulled out that speech and talked about how he was going to tell the truth about Dent. But then he changed his mind and said maybe they're not ready for it. The press have that on camera.

 

[remnant]

I mean, you're welcome to think this, it was left vague for a reason, but I just... I don't think the writers sat down and thought "ok, we expect the audience to believe that Blake will be the same Batman and that he will just learn years of ninja-skills on the side, no big".

Honestly I don't think that was meant to be the real ending. Nolan has been so anti-robin. I wouldn't be surprised if someone at WB pushed for some kind of Robin and continuation of Batman as a concept.

 

[Hero]

You're either projecting an argument you think I'm making onto my posts or I'm doing a super bad job at articulating myself. It's probably a mix of both.

I'm not trying to insult you. Get off your battle horse.

You've proposed that Batman going from being a loner who doesn't even fully trust someone he's known since he was a kid (Gordon) to trusting people at best, on a whim (Blake, Talia, Catwoman) is character development and I've asked you to show that's developing as a character at all because it's not portrayed at all in any of the movies to the viewing audience.

 

[RBelong2Us]

Honestly I don't think that was meant to be the real ending. Nolan has been so anti-robin. I wouldn't be surprised if someone at WB pushed for some kind of Robin and continuation of Batman as a concept.

Specifically said they had an ending already set when they started this series.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

That was a fucking great movie. Liked it better than the first two and a great way to end the trilogy. Pretty much everything I read in this last page is grasping at straws and arguing semantics...

 

[Tookay]

the one person I can count on to have a similar opinion...my man shinobifist. < daps >

fuck these nerdy haters dawg. lol they cant enjoy shit.

Yeah, you're cool.

That was a fucking great movie. Liked it better than the first two and a great way to end the trilogy. Pretty much everything I read in this last page is grasping at straws and arguing semantics...

So, do you consider the feelings of those who dismissively insult, or do you just post what you feel anyway?

I thought we were past the "haters going to hate" stage on internet forums.

 

[Raonak]

Maybe on an individual film basis Nolan is better but as a whole I don't see how marvel isn't closer and far more ambitious.

Well, I'd say the only reason marvel's universe could be considered anywhere near as ambitious as nolans is because it has twice as many movies.

Avengers was an awesome movie, but plotwise it was one of the shallowest movies i've seen. What it had going for it was amazing action sequences. It's gonna age very badly when it's CGI becomes outdated.

 

[Raide]

A little late but managed to watch this last night with friends. Overall a decent film but I could not stop laughing at Bane's voice. It felt really wrong for the film but then grew on me. I came out of the film laughing and I am not sure if that is what the Director planned.

I thought the Nuke storyline was boring and generic, especially when they said it was 6km radius and Batman flies it just off the shore. Worst...explosion....ever. Maybe the tech was faulty in the first place, you never know!

 

[Reiko]

Well, I'd say the only reason marvel's universe could be considered anywhere near as ambitious as nolans is because it has twice as many movies.

Avengers was an awesome movie, but plotwise it was one of the shallowest movies i've seen. What it had going for it was amazing action sequences. It's gonna age very badly when it's CGI becomes outdated.

ILM CG ages very well IMO

 

[rdrr gnr]

That was a fucking great movie. Liked it better than the first two and a great way to end the trilogy. Pretty much everything I read in this last page is grasping at straws and arguing semantics...

...no? The discussion is lively on both sides.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Honestly I don't think that was meant to be the real ending. Nolan has been so anti-robin. I wouldn't be surprised if someone at WB pushed for some kind of Robin and continuation of Batman as a concept.

Then why have JGL at all? With that much screen time?

In TDK Bruce and Joker have the majority of screen time. In this, JDL has a SHIT ton of screen time. It rivals Bane and Bruce's screen time.

They didn't do a lame side kick in a costume Robin, but I honestly believe his sole purpose was meant to be seen as a continuation. As other has said, he matched the multiple Robin's in the comics.

 

[Sojgat]

Flash is almost worse than Aquaman. Flash needs to be "Hawkeye-d" in.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Sorry, remnant, I didn't catch your edit. I thought the plot for the Avengers was paper-thin. I don't want to derail the thread, so this discussion can continue later, but I don't think that film will hold-up well years down the line; whereas, I feel as though this trilogy will. But, again, my opinion only.

 

[Hero]

Green Lantern is right in that picture, he could just make a giant energy shark that wouldn't require them to be near one of the oceans to be useful.

 

[JoeInky]

Honestly I don't think that was meant to be the real ending. Nolan has been so anti-robin. I wouldn't be surprised if someone at WB pushed for some kind of Robin and continuation of Batman as a concept.

This sounds about right, It felt like the film should have ended when Alfred looks at the camera and smiles.

 

[IamMattFox]

You've proposed that Batman going from being a loner who doesn't even fully trust someone he's known since he was a kid (Gordon) to trusting people at best, on a whim (Blake, Talia, Catwoman) is character development and I've asked you to show that's developing as a character at all because it's not portrayed at all in any of the movies to the viewing audience.

Batman's always been kind of more trusting than maybe he should be.

"This city just showed you that it's full of people ready to believe in good."

Well, yeah, I guess they did. But everyone else is really surprised about that, Bats.

Not to mention his approaching Harvey when he has Gordon's kid held hostage instead of ninja-ing him. ;D

 

[Tookay]

This sounds about right, It felt like the film should have ended when Alfred looks at the camera and smiles.

I would have been happier with things ending with the Bruce/Alfred stuff than JGL. This trilogy has (up until now) been about Bruce. Having the parting shot be JGL just didn't feel right to me.

 

[zethren]

Dark Knight Rises.

Dark Night Rises.

JGL is rising at the end.

JGL - Night - rising to his new position.

Nightwing.

The next movie cuts straight to Nightwing.

 

[remnant]

Then why have JGL at all? With that much screen time?

In TDK Bruce and Joker have the majority of screen time. In this, JDL has a SHIT ton of screen time. It rivals Bane and Bruce's screen time.

They didn't do a lame side kick in a costume Robin, but I honestly believe his sole purpose was meant to be seen as a continuation. As other has said, he matched the multiple Robin's in the comics.

To be the good cop on the beat. The comics had that in Renee Montoya and she never joined the Bat family.

This film took her character, chopped up a bunch of elements and factoids from the 3 robins, shook, stirred and poured it into the character we call John Blake. It's a fine device, Renee was awesome when used correctly but I wouldn't consider her the next batman.

Specifically said they had an ending already set when they started this series.

Then this shit was weak, and if bane and Talia was the endgame, than what was even the point of introducing the concept that Gotham gives birth to more darker and sinister ideas and individuals like the Joker.

 

[Kevtones]

To me, the film should've actually been about Bruce vs. Bane. Cat Woman could've been a sporadic tease and the scale would be dialed back to engross in their heads/history. I like the idea of the city control but it the Bruce/Bane connection felt abandoned inside of it (and that's the CORE of this film when you look at character).

Reminds me of Inception... The film emphasizes one thing and decides to ask you care about another. At least Inception had consistent character logic (for the most part).

 

[IamMattFox]

I would have been happier with things ending with the Bruce/Alfred stuff than JGL. This trilogy has (up until now) been about Bruce. Having the parting shot be JGL just didn't feel right to me.

The Bruce/Alfred scene is actually last in my memory for some reason.

But really, I got super hyped for JGL Batman for some reason. It's weird, I just kind of went along for the ride on this one and I think I enjoyed it more because of that fact.

Then this shit was weak, and if bane and Talia was the endgame, than what was even the point of introducing the concept that Gotham gives birth to more darker and sinister ideas and individuals like the Joker.

I think they specifically had Bruce's ending in mind, not the idea of the entire film. I guess they knew he'd fake his death and go on to live a seemingly pretty okay life.

 

[Rokam]

Dark Knight Rises.

Dark Night Rises.

JGL is rising at the end.

JGL - Night - rising to his new position.

Nightwing.

The next movie cuts straight to Nightwing.

Now see ... this is stretching.

 

[Hero]

The Bruce/Alfred scene is actually last in my memory for some reason.

But really, I got super hyped for JGL Batman for some reason. It's weird, I just kind of went along for the ride on this one and I think I enjoyed it more because of that fact.

I don't even see how he could realistically become Batman or even live up to Bruce in any notable capacity. Doesn't have the vast wealth to invest in new gadgets, doesn't have the same intelligence, doesn't have the same training. Closest thing is a semi-tragic background with his dad.

Edit:

Besides the obvious McGuffin of something that lets you magically alter the internet world of information to allow Selina to start over again how the fuck does that even apply for Bruce Wayne considering he's a celebrity in the Nolan universe. He didn't even change his hair color or style at all when Alfred saw him in the end there either did he?

 

[IamMattFox]

Now see ... this is stretching.

Batman deductions.

I don't even see how he could realistically become Batman or even live up to Bruce in any notable capacity. Doesn't have the vast wealth to invest in new gadgets, doesn't have the same intelligence, doesn't have the same training. Closest thing is a semi-tragic background with his dad.

Yeah, I admit I brought all of this up to my friends after the film ended. And when people on Gaf were suggesting that Blake would become Batman in this film and take on Bane while Bruce was laid up I thought they were nuts, but the ending worked for me in the theater.

Who knows, dude could take his bat suit out for a spin and die on the test run.

 

[zethren]

Now see ... this is stretching.

Believe.

 

[remnant]

Now see ... this is stretching.

But by the logic of many people here it makes total sense. Why not be his own version?

 

[Discotheque]

I liked it but it could have been so much...more. Catwoman was great but cut out a lot of her scenes and JGL's, more Bruce Wayne and Alfred and just Bruce overall.

They tried to sell this as Bruce's film but it really wasn't for the most part.

Script was a mess at times. I fucking hated that whole exchange with Blake and Wayne when he tells him he knows he's Batman. What a load of shit that was, and Gordon should be ashamed that he couldn't figure it out and a young kid could (because I had the same face as you...lol). It felt rushed during the first act, but after that it picked up steam. I think the first act is just horrible though.

After that once Bruce gets captured this film slowly starts to actually take shape rather than just feel like a bunch of jumbled scenes. My favorite scenes were when Bruce was climbing the prison, both of Alfred's dramatic moments and the ending.

Action was the best of the trilogy.

 

[Rokam]

Believe.

Never.

Spoiler

But yes when the platform started rising and then it cut to the title card... big ass smile

 

[Tookay]

To me, the film should've actually been about Bruce vs. Bane. Cat Woman could've been a sporadic tease and the scale would be dialed back to engross in their heads/history. I like the idea of the city control but it the Bruce/Bane connection felt abandoned inside of it (and that's the CORE of this film when you look at character).

I agree with you. I feel like a couple fundamental mistakes occur here that resulted in the weaker Bruce/Batman rivalry.

1) Too many other bullshit characters. JGL, Marion, Anne... it's just too much to add, when you have Gordon, Lucius, and Alfred already to juggle with. Bane almost becomes a tertiary character as a result of this.
2) Moving Bruce outside of Gotham after he's beaten was an unwise writing decision. Bruce and Bane barely even get to interact or play off each other in this movie because of it.
3) Not properly focusing on Bane's reign of terror. We get a handful of kangaroo court scenes, but we don't have a good idea of what's going on in Gotham, so we don't have much of an emphasis on Bane's treachery during a good third of the film.
4) They never seem to exactly settle in on a theme of what Bruce stands for versus what Bane stands for in this movie. Not like in BB/TDK.

 

[HK-47]

To be the good cop on the beat. The comics had that in Renee Montoya and she never joined the Bat family.

This film took her character, chopped up a bunch of elements and factoids from the 3 robins, shook, stirred and poured it into the character we call John Blake. It's a fine device, Renee was awesome when used correctly but I wouldn't consider her the next batman.




Then this shit was weak, and if bane and Talia was the endgame, than what was even the point of introducing the concept that Gotham gives birth to more darker and sinister ideas and individuals like the Joker.

Clearly they should have used DKR to set up a Question film.

 

[Hero]

I agree with you. I feel like a couple fundamental mistakes occur here.

1) Too many other bullshit characters. JGL, Marion, Anne... it's just too much to add, when you have Gordon, Lucius, and Alfred already to juggle with. Bane almost becomes a tertiary character as a result of this.
2) Moving Bruce outside of Gotham after he's beaten was an unwise writing decision. Bruce and Bane barely even get to interact or play off each other in this movie because of it.
3) Not properly focusing on Bane's reign of terror. We get a handful of kangaroo court scenes, but we don't have a good idea of what's going on in Gotham, so we don't have much of an emphasis on Bane's treachery during a good third of the film.

It's funny you mention the first point considering people thought Avengers wouldn't work with so many "main" characters but Avengers pulled it off a hell of a lot better than TDKR did when they could've made those other characters anything they really wanted to be due to creative adaptation.

 

[Sojgat]

Dark Knight Rises.

Dark Night Rises.

JGL is rising at the end.

JGL - Night - rising to his new position.

Nightwing.

The next movie cuts straight to Nightwing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PSueHOY-Jk

 

[RBelong2Us]

Avengers sets up there characters in like 10 different movies!

Only one of those movies being worth two shits.

 

[Discotheque]

It's funny you mention the first point considering people thought Avengers wouldn't work with so many "main" characters but Avengers pulled it off a hell of a lot better than TDKR did when they could've made those other characters anything they really wanted to be due to creative adaptation.

Avengers didn't because there was no drama involved with those characters. Nolan was trying a lot more and couldn't juggle it all but at least he tried.

All Whedon had to do was throw a bunch of dudes in a room and make them argue, watch some useless agent die and then rally them all together to fight.

Nolan had to deal with more.

 

[Tookay]

It's funny you mention the first point considering people thought Avengers wouldn't work with so many "main" characters but Avengers pulled it off a hell of a lot better than TDKR did when they could've made those other characters anything they really wanted to be due to creative adaptation.

Yep, the sky was the limit in what they could do with these new characters, yet they're all fairly cookie-cutter and inessential.

 

[Discotheque]

This film was kind of a mess but it's better than the Avengers (which I enjoyed)

Oh and flashbacks were handled so poorly in this film. It's like he assumed the audience didn't watch Begins or TDK. What the hell happened to the Nolan who made Begins? That film dealt with flashbacks so much better.

 

[IamMattFox]

Guys, I'm glad we live in a world where we can get both the Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises in one summer.

 

[HK-47]

Thats like the whole point of the film, putting faith in others and knowing that justice can continue without him.

Why would anyone put faith in someone who repeatedly fucked you over? Because its what the movie needs to justify Catwoman hanging around thats why.

 

[remnant]

You don't get points for trying to juggle things. Their were a lot of directions and what we got was pretty weak. Dropping some characters would have helped.

 

[Hero]

Avengers sets up there characters in like 10 different movies!

I'm talking about how they all got a fairly good amount of screen time without it having dragged the movie down as a whole. Blake, Bane, Selina and Gordon having to fight with Bruce over screen time did not turn out in its favor. Not to mention the whole twist with Talia that was only really used for shock value and a silly excuse to end the movie with a chase sequence.

 

[RBelong2Us]

This film was kind of a mess but it's better than the Avengers (which I enjoyed)

Oh and flashbacks were handled so poorly in this film. It's like he assumed the audience didn't watch Begins or TDK. What the hell happened to the Nolan who made Begins? That film dealt with flashbacks so much better.

You think the average joe has the attention span to remember shit from a movie they saw once 8 years ago?

 

[Tookay]

This film was kind of a mess but it's better than the Avengers (which I enjoyed)

Oh and flashbacks were handled so poorly in this film. It's like he assumed the audience didn't watch Begins or TDK. What the hell happened to the Nolan who made Begins? That film dealt with flashbacks so much better.

Honestly, I know a lot of people who aren't even aware BB exists and think TDK was the first reboot film. As heavy-handed as they were, I understand why they were there.

Still could have been done better though.

 

[HK-47]

I'm talking about how they all got a fairly good amount of screen time without it having dragged the movie down as a whole. Blake, Bane, Selina and Gordon having to fight with Bruce over screen time did not turn out in its favor. Not to mention the whole twist with Talia that was only really used for shock value and a silly excuse to end the movie with a chase sequence.

You know who had to fight for screen time? Batman.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Honestly, I know a lot of people who aren't even aware BB exists and think TDK was the first reboot film. As heavy-handed as they were, I understand why they were there.

Still could have been done better though.

The flashback scene that made the most sense was Gordon and Bruce's. So glad it was there.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I do have to say that the pit was pretty oversold as "hell on earth." It didn't really seem that bad. You even get free cable and rock climbing.

Yep, everything seemed very civil.

 

[RBelong2Us]

Why would anyone put faith in someone who repeatedly fucked you over? Because its what the movie needs to justify Catwoman hanging around thats why.

Through out the film Bruce had no choice but to take chances, seemed pretty clear.

Seems like some people are pissed theyre getting spoon fed flashbacks but then are being incredibly critical without thinking of why the characters had the motives they did.

 

[Aselith]

I don't even see how he could realistically become Batman or even live up to Bruce in any notable capacity. Doesn't have the vast wealth to invest in new gadgets, doesn't have the same intelligence, doesn't have the same training.

He could via Alfred since he got everything. Except the intelligence obviously but you necessarily have to be equal to Batman to fill his shoes.

 

[HK-47]

Yep, everything seemed very civil.

Mad good chiropractic as well. And tv!