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[Korey]

It doesn't even invalidate the born in darkness part. I'm sure lots of prisoners were born in darkness. Talia is the only one that escaped. Like Bruce, she let down the rope and brought her protector with her. Also, it wasn't confirmed to be romantic love, which would be kind of creepy.

Oh yea, and addressing the part about being born in darkness. I just read more about Bane and apparently he was born in the prison.

But the disconnect is still there, because throughout the entire movie, the "born in darkness" thing was linked to the kid they kept showing. Once that kid is revealed to be Talia, Bane's background is a complete blank. Yea, apparently he was "also born in darkness" but you don't know for sure from the movie.

So my point still stands. Talia's reveal breaks Bane's character.

 

[wetwired]

Agreed, but I feel as though a paragraph in the credits for Heath Ledger would have served better than a throwaway comment about the Joker, he sadly didnt have very much of a part to play in this film at all, and all they could have really done was allude to the chaos he was causing in Banes Gotham, that would have been pretty weak.

Bane could have just used the joker as proof or an example of why gotham needs to be purged, of the evil it birthed.

 

[Reiko]

Oh yea, and addressing the part about being born in darkness. I just read more about Bane and apparently he was born in the prison.

But the disconnect is still there, because throughout the entire movie, the "born in darkness" thing was linked to the kid they kept showing. Once that kid is revealed to be Talia, Bane's background is a complete blank. Yea, apparently he was "also born in darkness" but you don't know for sure from the movie.

So my point still stands. Talia's reveal breaks Bane's character.

A fire rises.

 

[J2 Cool]

I wonder how Heath Ledgers passing affected the story, I am tempted to say that Nolan had a lot more planned for the ongoing battles between the Joker and The Batman, Dent/ Two Face seemed to be getting primed to be the main bad guy at the end of the last one. Has anyone ever spoke out about this?

I do think im happy with the way things turned out, it would have been disrespectful to Heath Ledger to make a throw away comment about the Joker, or try and get someone to emulate him, but I do feel as though he would have had more presence in Gotham after Bane took it over. I wonder if there would have been more tension between the criminals, I think its weird that all the criminals swore allegiance to Bane, would have been more interesting if Gotham got really torn up. That said for the length of the movie I doubt they could have got into that.

Banes Gotham was still slightly disappointing to me after playing Arkham City, I think they could have done more to show just how bad the criminal uprising was.

I thought this during the movie, that if some criminal were handed a gun, wouldn't one just shoot Bane. Someone had to not like what he was doing. Easy to dismiss, but I definitely thought it

More interesting though, was that the Joker would definitely have to be worked into the plot. Considering all the Rocky III parallels, maybe he could have been Batman's Apollo to stopping Mr. T while in Prison.. Of course he would see Bruce then though. I liked the thought that he would have read Gordon's letter to the public someone else presented. Probably Bane would have allowed him to him to be exuberant over the free city thinking how he could use him, he acts unpredictable for awhile, and then Bane feels threatened by him to the point where he removes him. Then fireworks. Or Joker buys himself security through holding something over Bane, tells him he just wants to be a part of the fun. Him holding court instead of Scarecrow would seem like a high possibility, but he would obviously need more than that. I don't know, I love the unpredictability his character brings always. He could really fill so many roles in a Batman story. Not to mention crowds would come alive, and have a weird kind of fun every time he would be on screen. It would give a jolt to this movie almost the point of changing the tone altogether. I'm not sure if it would work beautifully or if it would have hurt TDKR with the story they had in place.

 

[Curufinwe]

I think some people just really wanted Two face to be the villain of the next movie.

 

[soundscream]

Hell, Inception's ending is pretty straightforward too. I guess if people think too hard about it, I guess.

Anyway yeah in TDK Harvey's death is pretty clear. The fact that Batman even moved his dead body affirms it, and he wasn't breathing at all.

The inception ending is extremely straight forward. Nolan isn't that deep. Also taking a look at the imdb page gives you the most definitive answer about the ending of inception.

 

[Solo]

I think some people just really wanted Two face to be the villain of the next movie.

It's nice to want things, but when his fate was so clearly sealed in TDK, there is no reason to hope for such things.

Unless TDKR was to open with a shot of Harvey in the Lazarus Pit :lol

 

[Reiko]

I think some people just really wanted Two face to be the villain of the next movie.

There was this problem with Two Face wanting to die at the end of TDK.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Pretty sure it was romantic love.

I had this image in my head after the twist.

 

[SJRB]

Oh yea, and addressing the part about being born in darkness. I just read more about Bane and apparently he was born in the prison.

But the disconnect is still there, because throughout the entire movie, the "born in darkness" thing was linked to the kid they kept showing. Once that kid is revealed to be Talia, Bane's background is a complete blank. Yea, apparently he was "also born in darkness" but you don't know for sure from the movie.

So my point still stands. Talia's reveal breaks Bane's character.

The whole "born and raised in hell on earth" and "did not see daylight until I was a man" stuff was pretty silly if you consider the prison itself has a massive sunroof shining down sunlight every single day.

I expected some Riddick-type hellhole.

 

[Sorcerer]

To me it's more disrespectful to completely ignore heaths contribution as the joker as if it never happened.

Heath made his contribution. He will probably never be topped as the Joker. All others who take on the role in the future will be scrutinzed and picked apart.

Nolan made probably the ultimate Joker movie.

I don't see Nolan as the type to rely on past glory to give his current project validity.


Even if Heath was alive, I am sure he would not have a place in this movie.

I am sure however he would be part of Nolan's circle and played a differnt role in another project.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Nothing ambiguous about it. He fell like 70 feet, broke his neck and died. He was dead when Bruce turned his head to the other side. Then in the closing montage Gordon was talking at his funeral. Then AGAIN at the start of TDKR, Gordon is memorializing Dent.

Inception's ending is ambiguous. TDK's is not.

Hmm your right, just rewatched the ending, looked worse than I remember it lol.

I think some people just really wanted Two face to be the villain of the next movie.

I actually didnt, but the pacing of the last act of TDK felt off too me, it felt like Two Face was being set up to be a lot more than he ultimately ended up being. That said he played his part and set the right wheels into motion, so perhaps I assumed wrong.

I thought this during the movie, that if some criminal were handed a gun, wouldn't one just shoot Bane. Someone had to not like what he was doing. Easy to dismiss, but I definitely thought it

More interesting though, was that the Joker would definitely have to be worked into the plot. Considering all the Rocky III parallels, maybe he could have been Batman's Apollo to stopping Mr. T while in Prison.. Of course he would see Bruce then though. I liked the thought that he would have read Gordon's letter to the public someone else presented. Probably Bane would have allowed him to him to be exuberant over the free city thinking how he could use him, he acts unpredictable for awhile, and then Bane feels threatened by him to the point where he removes him. Then fireworks. Or Joker buys himself security through holding something over Bane, tells him he just wants to be a part of the fun. Him holding court instead of Scarecrow would seem like a high possibility, but he would obviously need more than that. I don't know, I love the unpredictability his character brings always. He could really fill so many roles in a Batman story. Not to mention crowds would come alive, and have a weird kind of fun every time he would be on screen. It would give a jolt to this movie almost the point of changing the tone altogether. I'm not sure if it would work beautifully or if it would have hurt TDKR with the story they had in place.

I agree with you, it would have been pretty interesting, im sure ultimately Bane would have been using him as the scapegoat as for why the bomb should go off. He would have let him have his fun and then used his actions as proof as to why the criminals/ Gotham needed to be purged. Could have been a really interesting dynamic, but I almost get the feeling the Joker would have had more presence than Bane, which could have thrown off the entire dynamic of the film.

Bane could have just used the joker as proof or an example of why gotham needs to be purged, of the evil it birthed.

Agreed, but just referencing him in name would have been a bit weak, after all Bane wouldnt know of his actions from 8 years ago?

 

[Korey]

The whole "born and raised in hell on earth" and "did not see daylight until I was a man" stuff was pretty silly if you consider the prison itself has a massive sunroof shining down sunlight every single day.

I expected some Riddick-type hellhole.

Plot hole #39085083292

-----

So Two-Face was Two-Face for two seconds?

 

[NullPointer]

The whole "born and raised in hell on earth" and "did not see daylight until I was a man" stuff was pretty silly if you consider the prison itself has a massive sunroof shining down sunlight every single day.

I expected some Riddick-type hellhole.

Yep. Good point.

And what was the significance of backstabby lady's scar that they flashed for a microsecond?

 

[Veelk]

Oh yea, and addressing the part about being born in darkness. I just read more about Bane and apparently he was born in the prison.

But the disconnect is still there, because throughout the entire movie, the "born in darkness" thing was linked to the kid they kept showing. Once that kid is revealed to be Talia, Bane's background is a complete blank. Yea, apparently he was "also born in darkness" but you don't know for sure from the movie.

So my point still stands. Talia's reveal breaks Bane's character.

He clearly was, from the way he talks about it from within the prison. He just never escaped that darkness, unlike Talia. And even if he wasn't literally born there, he could have meant it in the same way that Batman was born the night Bruce's parents died. He did, after all, make a point about how "no one cared who he was until he put on the mask". Whatever his real name was might not have been born in the prison, but you can definitely say that Bane was. The point is: Bane was someone who suffered in this prison in a way that Batman did not, and he was stronger for it. The only way this would invalidate his character is if he lied about being in this prison entirely and he was just some guy that was physically stronger than Batman.

Plot hole #39085083292

That's not a plothole, that's badly applied literalism. Do you also think Bruce literally has adoption papers for darkness sitting in the manor?

And what was the significance of backstabby lady's scar that they flashed for a microsecond?

That was supposedly a mark of the League of Shadows, but I don't remember it in BB.

 

[NullPointer]

That was supposedly a mark of the League of Shadows, but I don't remember it in BB.

Neither do I. Like I said, the shot where we see it seemed so random.

 

[Veelk]

Neither do I. Like I said, the shot where it was shown seemed so random.

It could have just been a normal scar, hinting at her brutal past. It was clearly meant to be a hint, but it's too vague. Who doesn't have some kind of scar? But that's the problem with foreshadowing, you can't make it too obvious, I guess.

 

[wetwired]

Heath made his contribution. He will probably never be topped as the Joker. All others who take on the role in the future will be scrutinzed and picked apart.

Nolan made probably the ultimate Joker movie.

I don't see Nolan as the type to rely on past glory to give his current project validity.


Even if Heath was alive, I am sure he would not have a place in this movie.

I am sure however he would be part of Nolan's circle and played a differnt role in another project.

I would never have expected or wanted them to recast and see another actor play the part in TDKR, but to not even mention the character at all?

 

[Dany]

No because you bring up the joker then half of the discussion in this thread would be about the joker and heath and story changes,

 

[SJRB]

That was supposedly a mark of the League of Shadows, but I don't remember it in BB.

If it truly was a Mark then there is no way Bruce would NOT have noticed that. He was a member of the League himself for Christ's sake.

I think it's a scar to show that she has been through something rough, a small and subtle hint at the later twist. Don't they even have a conversation like "you have had some injuries" - "so have you" or something?

 

[Dany]

I thought it was funny that Bruce goes to the doctor, 'bales out' and then is immediately in Gordon's room holding his hand. That was funny, like how Nolan didn't waste anyones time with that.

 

[Sorcerer]

I would never have expected or wanted them to recast and see another actor play the part in TDKR, but to not even mention the character at all?

I can't see it being done without it seeming cheap. Then again I am not a brillant writer.
To me the character seems to loom so large in Batman's mythology a passing nod would be difficult.

I can rembember how awesome that Joker card was at the end of Begins. I get done watching an awesome movie, and they blew my mind with all kinds of anticipation for the next one.

 

[Resilient]

I would never have expected or wanted them to recast and see another actor play the part in TDKR, but to not even mention the character at all?

The only people that care about it enough are the fanboys. And no matter how Nolan did it, the fanboys would have picked it apart. Ledger played his part, and it was respected by not tarnishing it in this movie for a cheap throw away line that has no place in the story Nolan wanted to tell.

 

[Veelk]

It would be far from impossible to find a good replacement.

This guy does it extremely well, especially after he grew into the role in later episodes. It's to the point that some people thought that this was Heath Ledger.

 

[King of the Potato People]

I didn't mind Blake's story, maybe because we never actually see him become Batman, it's just implied and that he will get stronger. If we suddenly saw him as Batman with all the same, awesome martial arts, then that would have been bad.

Talia's main story though was indeed lacking.

 

[Dany]

I didn't mind Blake's story, maybe because we never actually see him become Batman, it's just implied and that he will get stronger. If we suddenly saw him as Batman with all the same, awesome martial arts, then that would have been bad.

Talia's main story though was indeed lacking.

The main assumption in this thread is that Blake is going to put on a suit asap and go stalk the city, which I disagree with. You make a good point.

Talia's story was great, almost all of it was in flashback and her motives made sense. I thought it was fine.

 

[Superimposer]

It would be far from impossible to find a good replacement.

This guy does it extremely well, especially after he grew into the role in later episodes. It's to the point that some people thought that this was Heath Ledger.

Eeeeh no.

 

[Veelk]

Eeeeh no.

Emphasis on the "especially after he grew into the role" part. The first episodes are weaker than the rest.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

It would be far from impossible to find a good replacement.

This guy does it extremely well, especially after he grew into the role in later episodes. It's to the point that some people thought that this was Heath Ledger.

Awful.

It really is such an absolute shame that we never got to see what Heath could have pulled off in the sequel. I have a feeling it would have been very, very dark.

 

[Korey]

The main assumption in this thread is that Blake is going to put on a suit asap and go stalk the city, which I disagree with. You make a good point.

Talia's story was great, almost all of it was in flashback and her motives made sense. I thought it was fine.

her motives sucked because it was kind of like motivation by proxy. And bane's was motivation by proxy by proxy. Joker's was far better.

 

[Veelk]

her motives sucked because it was kind of like motivation by proxy. An bane was motivation by proxy by proxy. Joker's was far better.

Bruce's motivations must suck too, as he is just carrying out his parent's wills.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

It would be far from impossible to find a good replacement.

This guy does it extremely well, especially after he grew into the role in later episodes. It's to the point that some people thought that this was Heath Ledger.

Man, that was so bad. Makes me respect real actors even more.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

So is the bluray set gonna be a bunch of discs stacked up in a well?

 

[J2 Cool]

It would be far from impossible to find a good replacement.

This guy does it extremely well, especially after he grew into the role in later episodes. It's to the point that some people thought that this was Heath Ledger.

I always find these to be the most embarrassing things ever.

 

[King of the Potato People]

Talia's story was great, almost all of it was in flashback and her motives made sense. I thought it was fine.

I was basically thinking:

"Oh it's Talia... oh she's dead"
Exaggerated but the twist just came so late, that it didn't have much of an effect for me. I did enjoy her flashback scenes though.

 

[SJRB]

How old is Bane anyway? I guess he was in his late 20's, early 30's when Talia escaped the Pit.

In TDKR I'd say Talia is mid-30s? That would make Bane almost 50 years old, I guess?

 

[massoluk]

Well, this film is really fun to watch the second time. Got a lot of details wrong on my earlier posts, second time really cleared uo a lot of fuzzy stuffs like Bane's origin

 

[legacyzero]

Oh yea, and addressing the part about being born in darkness. I just read more about Bane and apparently he was born in the prison.

But the disconnect is still there, because throughout the entire movie, the "born in darkness" thing was linked to the kid they kept showing. Once that kid is revealed to be Talia, Bane's background is a complete blank. Yea, apparently he was "also born in darkness" but you don't know for sure from the movie.

So my point still stands. Talia's reveal breaks Bane's character.

Yeah.. Even without the points you mention, I was still a bit disappointed about that. I actually grew to love Bane as the bad guy, more than I thought I would. Then he totally gets his thunder stolen.

But I wasn't THAT mad knowing that it all came right back to Ras, whom I still adored as the bad guy.

I'm so happy that this film had more to do about the League of Shadows than the second one did.

 

[Totakeke]

At which point in the movie did Talia said all things Bane did was her planning? Don't make your own imagination take over what was shown in the film. Bane was clearly going to disobey her orders to keep Batman alive too.

 

[Man]

How old is Bane anyway? I guess he was in his late 20's, early 30's when Talia escaped the Pit.

In TDKR I'd say Talia is mid-30s? That would make Bane almost 50 years old, I guess?

Some people can be in amazing shape at that age.
Stephen Lang was in his late fifties (60 today) filming Avatar:

sidenote: Just came upon an article about Langs exercise routine while googling for images: http://www.energytimes.com/pages/features/1011/lang.html

 

[REV 09]

Saw it last night. It was my least favorite of the three, but it was still a good movie. Bane was surprisingly cool. Talia twist was great; JGL is boss...glad he got a lot of screen time. I just think that the pacing and the script were worse. Nolan lost his sense of subtlety with TDKR.

 

[King of the Potato People]

I did think of this too.

 

[Randdalf]

Blake's scene where he's running to the hospital with the shotgun is so awesome.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I loved how he kept using Scarecrow in recurring ways without him stealing the spotlight. Such a Batman thing to do. I wished Nolan could keep doing this films if only to maintain his awesome villain menagerie.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I did think of this too.

would have been fantastic.

 

[reggieandTFE]

Permaban me please if none of this takes place in the film.

Talia provided all the tumblers for Bane. She used Wayne so she could work for him and steal all of his equiptment. You find this out before she has Lucius killed.

Why does this guy still have an account?

 

[cj_iwakura]

Why does this guy still have an account?

That first page was a fun read.

 

[MMaRsu]

I loved how he kept using Scarecrow in recurring ways without him stealing the spotlight. Such a Batman thing to do. I wished Nolan could keep doing this films if only to maintain his awesome villain menagerie.

Yeah I also loved the usage of Crane

 

[TheKaeptain]

Neither do I. Like I said, the shot where we see it seemed so random.

Remember the hot poker stick in RA's house? Probably that.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Yeah I also loved the usage of Crane

Even in the second movie, Batman beating him up in such a trivial way, like he keeps showing up for no real reason other than to start drama.


I would watch a movie focused on Cillian Murphy's Crane.