REMEMBER the dArk knight rises UnmaRked spOileR threAd | You only legend once

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brandonh83 said:
What's insane is how the smallest things make such a massive impact on the quality of the film... in my opinion. But the truth is, I would have felt vastly better about the ending if, simply, it lacked the shot of Bruce and Selina. It's insane how such a thing can matter so much, but it absolutely can and in this case, absolutely does.
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But then people REALLY wouldn't get the ending.

WHY IS ALFRED NODDING AT THE CAMERA?! IS AUNT MAY REALLY CARNAGE???
 
brandonh83 said:
What's insane is how the smallest things make such a massive impact on the quality of the film... in my opinion. But the truth is, I would have felt vastly better about the ending if, simply, it lacked the shot of Bruce and Selina. It's insane how such a thing can matter so much, but it absolutely can and in this case, absolutely does.
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maybe for you, but man I wanted to see that, and I didn't think I would, then I saw them together, and my heart warmed and I smiled big :)
 
Solo said:
It fucking saddens me. I've bitched several times in this thread about my distaste for Nolan using flashbacks and not trusting his audience.......and yet, as more and more of these questions come along, I see the Nolan was justified in his actions.

I swear some people needed another shot in between Bruce's goodbye to Gordon and the bomb going off showing Bruce bailing for them to "get it".

:_(
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I want to see a re-cut movie where Christian Bale stops to explains his actions every 10 seconds.

"I am lying on the ground because Bane just hurt my back"

"Hey Alfred I am alive. I jumped out of the plane because I fixed the auto pilot. I'm the man."

"I think I will try climbing out of this prison so I can go save Gotham."

"The Joker might blow up some boats if I don't stop him"

"Liam Neeson may use a gas that makes people go crazy to destroy Gotham. I should make sure he doesn't do that. He has to use this machine to make the gas work. Time to put on my mask and fight crime."
 
brandonh83 said:
What's insane is how the smallest things make such a massive impact on the quality of the film... in my opinion. But the truth is, I would have felt vastly better about the ending if, simply, it lacked the shot of Bruce and Selina. It's insane how such a thing can matter so much, but it absolutely can and in this case, absolutely does.
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Only to a tiny minority of people, though. Everyone else understands that was a great shot have at the end of the movie.
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
maybe for you, but man I wanted to see that, and I didn't think I would, then I saw them together, and my heart warmed and I smiled big :)
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I'll just put it on the record that I'm totally happy that you liked it. I didn't, but the whole point behind movies, IMO, is enjoyment in whatever form. If you found solace with that shot, that's fucking awesome and I envy you.

Curufinwe said:
Only to a tiny minority of people, though. Everyone else understands that was a great shot have at the end of the movie.
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It's that, that gets me. If you liked it, great, but the people who don't like the shot have explained with excellent reasoning why they don't.

We understand why that shot is there-- for people that can't piece together incredibly simple and obvious things-- but we don't have to like it.
 
ViewtifulJC said:
Which is why they should have just left the flashbacks and constant exposition masqueradering as dialog out of it. You got a weaker film trying to cater to the lowest common denominator and it still confuses people
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I honestly somewhat agree. Except during Gordons speech where we saw flashes of Two-Face and I got chills. It doesn't hurt that that is my favourite scene in the series and showed so well how well Gordon was wrestling with his own split morality.
 
re: the ending (which I thought was nearly flawless)

The only thing I would have done differently is put the final Blake shots before the final Alfred/Bruce shot. I would have cut to black on Bruce's nod.

I know why Nolan did it his way, but I wouldn't have.
 
brandonh83 said:
What's insane is how the smallest things make such a massive impact on the quality of the film... in my opinion. But the truth is, I would have felt vastly better about the ending if, simply, it lacked the shot of Bruce and Selina. It's insane how such a thing can matter so much, but it absolutely can and in this case, absolutely does.
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Brandon thats crazy talk. You have seen the responses in this thread if Nolan cut back the way your suggesting(Which I am sure he would have loved to given his body of work) can you imagine the backlash and confusion?


Solo said:
re: the ending (which I thought was nearly flawless)

The only thing I would have done differently is put the final Blake shots before the final Alfred/Bruce shot. I would have cut to black on Bruce's nod.

I know why Nolan did it his way, but I wouldn't have.
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Yeah that would have been the perfect close-out.
 
brandonh83 said:
I'll just put it on the record that I'm totally happy that you liked it. I didn't, but the whole point behind movies, IMO, is enjoyment in whatever form. If you found solace with that shot, that's fucking awesome and I envy you.



It's that, that gets me. If you liked it, great, but the people who don't like the shot have explained with excellent reasoning why they don't.
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I definitely found solace with that shot, because I love Bale's Bruce Wayne. That he can finally rest was a great thought.
 
Also, am I the only one that thought Bane was the best part about the movie? I was never a big fan of Heath Ledger Joker (he didn't accomplish a damn thing), while Bane was terrifying and fucked so much shit up. Not to mention, Nolan somehow managed to make the only scene between Talia/Bane incredibly effective. The acting that Hardy did with his eyes was incredible.
 
I wonder if there are people out there who think that Rachel is not the same person from the first movie? That actress change probably blew their minds.
 
BruceLeeRoy said:
I am honestly getting worried about the future of the human race. I was at the beach yesterday and was with my cousin and her friends and all 3 of them thought Bruce Wayne was dead.....Good news is now I have one less cousin to worry about.
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I've noticed this watching movies with friends or family. I think most people view movies as just something to kill time, not actual worthwhile endeavors to pay attention to. The worst is when someone starts texting or checking their phone during a movie, then complains they have no idea what's going on, so they don't want to watch it anymore. RAAAAGGGEEE
 
brandonh83 said:
I find it funny; in Mark Kermode's review he talks about how Nolan treats the audience like they're smart. Weird, considering all of the blatant and unnecessary hand-holding.
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Nolan as a big budget blockbuster director seems to lack a lot of the skill that Nolan as a more independent film maker had in terms of deciding what his audience should be given credit for (intelligence wise).

If there was one big complaint I had about TDKR is unnecessary exposition that could've been handled in a different way (or cut altogether) that only served the purpose of a sledgehammer to make sure we really "understood" what was going on, as well as a plot that suffers quite a lot when viewed after the fact.

It was a great ride while it lasted, but the movie was quite a bit shallow. But meh, it's Batman and a comic book movie. But I don't think I'll be the only one to say that where as TDK was a great movie by itself, TDKR may just be a great comic book movie, but not a great movie.

Also... In addition to the backlash in Inception, it probably was also due to the backlash in the end of TDK with the whole "Dent - is he really dead?" campaign. I can see where that would've been annoying for him after the fact since I thought it was painfully obvious at first viewing that Dent was dead and I always was shocked when people interpreted that scene in another way.
 
I remember when they said the originally conceived ending for Shawshank was red on the bus travelling on the bus and his narration of how "he hopes to see his friend again" and the studio insisted you see the epic shot of Red and Andy meeting up on the beach. I can only imagine this has something to do with the Morgan Freeman influence

They're couldn't be much hand holding in this because most people still haven't got a clue whats going on. People still think Bruce is dead and Dent is alive
 
BruceLeeRoy said:
Brandon thats crazy talk. You have seen the responses in this thread if Nolan cut back the way your suggesting(Which I am sure he would have loved to given his body of work) can you imagine the backlash and confusion?
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Shit. And here I've always been under the impression that Nolan is a daring filmmaker that goes with his instincts and does what he wants to do, regardless of what he feels like other people would want him to do.

Silly me.

zethren said:
I definitely found solace with that shot, because I love Bale's Bruce Wayne. That he can finally rest was a great thought.
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Well that's just it, isn't it? Even without that shot, it would have been easy to understand that he wasn't dead. I thought that was the point of everything in the ending. Lucius discovering that the auto-pilot had been fixed, meaning that Bruce maybe isn't dead. Gordon finding the repaired Bat signal, meaning that Bruce maybe isn't dead. Alfred seeing something at the cafe that took him by surprise, after hearing his story earlier in the film about wanting to see nothing more than Bruce with a girl at a cafe, living peacefully-- maybe meaning that Bruce isn't dead.

So I mean, basically Bruce isn't dead, even without that shot.
 
brandonh83 said:
I find it funny; in Mark Kermode's review he talks about how Nolan treats the audience like they're smart. Weird, considering all of the blatant and unnecessary hand-holding.
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Kermode seems to consider all the flashbacks to be visual representations of characters' memories. So, when you see a flashback to Begins of Gordon and Bruce, it's an externalized visual representation of what Gordon is thinking in the present...or something. I'm not really clear on it.
 
Messypandas said:
I remember when they said the originally conceived ending for Shawshank was red on the bus travelling on the bus and his narration of how "he hopes to see his friend again" and the studio insisted you see the epic shot of Red and Andy meeting up on the beach. I can only imagine this has something to do with the Morgan Freeman influence
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One of the few instances where studio interference made the film better.
 
I had a lot of problems with the script, mainly Miranda Tate's near random reveal as Talia al Ghul and the fact that the reactor wasn't the destroyed until the very end of the movie.

Both are by products of lazy and overly convenient script writing, especially the latter, considering there was absolutely ZERO reason for Bane and Miranda not to destroy it considering it was the only means of disarming the explosive and they intended to use the bomb anyways. The only reason it wasn't destroyed was because its existence was the backbone of the 2nd half of the film.

And I personally don't mind twists, but there has to be some shred of evidence to back its reveal within the plot. There's nothing I hate more than twists out of left field, with little to no foreshadowing clues for little reason outside of the fact that the writers wan't to surprise you 100%
 
brandonh83 said:
Shit. And here I've always been under the impression that Nolan is a daring filmmaker that goes with his instincts and does what he wants to do, regardless of what he feels like other people would want him to do.

Silly me.
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The Prestige and Memento are both daring movies that require multiple viewings to really digest. I miss that Nolan a lot.
 
Solo said:
It fucking saddens me. I've bitched several times in this thread about my distaste for Nolan using flashbacks and not trusting his audience.......and yet, as more and more of these questions come along, I see the Nolan was justified in his actions.

I swear some people needed another shot in between Bruce's goodbye to Gordon and the bomb going off showing Bruce bailing for them to "get it".

:_(
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I was mostly bothered by the manipulative camera work during that scene. You see Batman still in the cockpit mere seconds before the explosion yet we are told the explosion had a 6 mile blast radius which isn't a short distance at all. Between that last shot and the explosion, there was no time for him to get out. Unless I remember it wrong. Only saw it once.
 
Solo said:
re: the ending (which I thought was nearly flawless)

The only thing I would have done differently is put the final Blake shots before the final Alfred/Bruce shot. I would have cut to black on Bruce's nod.

I know why Nolan did it his way, but I wouldn't have.
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I agree with that. The parting shot should have been with Bruce, not the next generation.
 
zethren said:
I definitely found solace with that shot, because I love Bale's Bruce Wayne. That he can finally rest was a great thought.
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Well that's just it, isn't it? Even without that shot, it would have been easy to understand that he wasn't dead. I thought that was the point of everything in the ending. Lucius discovering that the auto-pilot had been fixed, meaning that Bruce maybe isn't dead. Gordon finding the repaired Bat signal, meaning that Bruce maybe isn't dead. Alfred seeing something at the cafe that took him by surprise, after hearing his story earlier in the film about wanting to see nothing more than Bruce with a girl at a cafe, living peacefully-- maybe meaning that Bruce isn't dead. That moment for Alfred should have been Alfred's moment, exclusively. When they give that full moment, showing everyone else what he saw, IMO takes a great deal away from it.

So I mean, basically Bruce isn't dead, even without that shot. I felt like holding back on that, giving those other characters all they needed to know about the well-being of Bruce Wayne, while giving Alfred exactly what he wanted, and leaving the audience with the nuclear blast being the final time that we see him-- it would have made the ending resonate with so much more poignancy.
 
Do you think Selina was giving Batman, a goodbye kiss?, a goodluck kiss?, or I am hot for you hope you make it back kiss at the end?
 
SpikedGunner said:
especially since they mentioned the auto-pilot not functioning a few times over the course of the film. This was bound to lead up to somewhere.
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Same thing with Alfred's dream. They didn't shoot that entire sequence with some who WASN'T Bruce for no reason. It was 100% obvious that the film was going to circle back to that. In fact, at that moment you know Bruce won't die.
 
Curufinwe said:
They did a good job finding a decent picture of Maggie Gyllenhaal.
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They should have had a picture of Katie Holmes and Maggie Gyllenhaal on the mantle. Sometimes i remember her one way, sometimes another. If i'm going to have a love interest i'd prefer it to be multiple choice
 
Gordon doesn't know that Bruce is still alive though, right? I can't recall a scene of him finding out. The only people who know he made it are Selina, Alfred, and Lucius. Correct?
 
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AvidNobody said:
Gordon doesn't know that Bruce is still alive though, right? I can't recall a scene of him finding out. The only people who know he made it are Selina, Alfred, and Lucius. Correct?
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He smiles and laughs when he finds out the Bat signal is repaired. I'd gander Gordon knows Bruce is alive.
 
Tookay said:
I agree with that. The parting shot should have been with Bruce, not the next generation.
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Yeah, I got the intent of it, but to me this trulogy is Bruce's story, so it rubbed me a bit the wrong way to close on Blake rather than Bruce. Made it end on a Batman note instead of a Bruce one.
 
The Mana Legend said:
Also, am I the only one that thought Bane was the best part about the movie? I was never a big fan of Heath Ledger Joker (he didn't accomplish a damn thing), while Bane was terrifying and fucked so much shit up. Not to mention, Nolan somehow managed to make the only scene between Talia/Bane incredibly effective. The acting that Hardy did with his eyes was incredible.
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bane is a force, thanks to Hardy.

ledgers joker was unpredictable and kinda cuckoo, bane is intelligent, strong, calculative andpreparedfor anything.

i fucking llovedhow he walked away casually after defeating bruce/batman.
 
Also they nod at each other, but then seem to leave it at that? Really? Bruce just looks at him but then looks away, like he doesn't really care. Shouldn't they like, I dunno, reconnect or talk about it? There's a love between them and the last time we saw Alfred before that, he was flat out crying about how he failed Thomas and Martha.

Then he sees him alive, that he didn't fail, that his tears were for nothing, and it ends with a simple head nod? Jesus.
 
Solo said:
Yeah, I got the intent of it, but to me this trulogy is Bruce's story, so it rubbed me a bit the wrong way to close on Blake rather than Bruce. Made it end on a Batman note instead of a Bruce one.
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Well said.

brandonh83 said:
Also they nod at each other, but then seem to leave it at that? Really? There's a love between them and the last time we saw Alfred before that, he was flat out crying about how he failed Thomas and Martha.

Then he sees him alive, that he didn't fail, that his tears were for nothing, and it ends with a simple head nod? Jesus.
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Alfred said himself that would be enough for him.
 
brandonh83 said:
Also they nod at each other, but then seem to leave it at that? Really? Bruce just looks at him but then looks away, like he doesn't really care. Shouldn't they like, I dunno, reconnect or talk about it? There's a love between them and the last time we saw Alfred before that, he was flat out crying about how he failed Thomas and Martha.

Then he sees him alive, that he didn't fail, that his tears were for nothing, and it ends with a simple head nod? Jesus.
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That was probably the happiest he's been in 15 years. Just seeing him there living PAST Batman.
 
Anyone noticed that scene in the stairwell from... trailer 2 (?) where Alfred says "I promised your parents I would protect you, and I haven't" wasn't in the movie?
 
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