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[LumpOfCole]

I wouldn't mind there being a Catwoman prequel spinoff movie. No love interest necessary - just a movie where Catwoman kicks ass and pulls off a heist being an Ocean's-11-All-In-One. Hathaway and a good script can pull it off.

 

[nhlducks35]

Well the final moments of film emphasize:

1) Batman is a faceless hero with a statue so nobody forgets who saved the city.
2) Gordon realizes who Batman is and it's a sweeping moment.
3) We infer Robin became Robin because of his convenient pre-teen intuition of figuring out Bruce as Batman.
4) People really wish they could know who Batman was.


Add in people's amazement/interest when Bruce/Batman returns to the spotlight at the same time, Catwoman's surprise at the reveal, and the general theme of identity...

Loved the moment the entire police force stopped pursuing the man potentially destroying the entire financial system of the country because they saw Batman. Guess Batman (and his identity) would have to be pretty important for that too occur right? His identity would've had to have been in the headspace of the 12 million Gotham City residents we're supposed to be caring about right?


Making the 'it's a comic book' excuse is just a cop out. One of its central narrative pillars of the film revolves WHO Batman is. Bad logic is bad logic is bad logic, particularly when a film is clearing trying to be 'more than just a comic book movie'.

Well he did "kill" Harvey Dent, and at that time no one could have known how big Bane would be.

 

[Ghizz]

i just have to give props to heath ledger for a wonderful performance as the Joker. It was unfortunate that he got too into his character which lead to his death, but imo it made the second movie better. Bane wasn't a good enough villain in my opinion.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I bet the military didn't want it because of the missing autopilot.

The point is, autopilot in this case is not a feature of a dubious aircraft. It's a plot device. And a terrible one. Just like the super-efficient and powerful clean energy supply that is also a nuclear bomb so gracious as to indicate exactly when it would go off. Or the woman who spent her entire life rising to become Chair of one of the biggest corporations on the planet, spending her time championing clean energy for all, all as a front to eventually destroy Gotham. These are the kinds of devices that belong in awful movies. And yet because of whatever weird hold Nolan has on Gaf (who! by the way, usually can't wait to point out these kinds of things), no one seems to care.

I should say I thought Anne Hathaway and Joseph Gordon Levitt were the best parts of the movie, despite some of the dialogue they had to contend with.

I am in complete agreement with the lot of this. Although Nolan goggles aren't exclusive to GAF.

 

[Jopie]

Bane sounded like Christopher Walken

After his first line of dialogue, I turned to my friend and said this.
It ended up being part Walken, part Sean Connery.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

One thing I didn't quite get - Bruce Wayne and Batman both clearly died. How is it not assumed that Bruce Wayne is Batman? Do the people of Gotham assume that Bane just killed Wayne before Batman died?

Was mentioned a few pages ago, but Wayne was last seen publicly being dragged (as a prisoner) to Bane. Missing, presumed dead like countless others.

 

[GekigangerV]

Plenty of rich people died during Bane's reign.

And there is also a few month difference between their last sightings. Wayne was last seen before being broken (I imagine no one noticed when he snuck back in to Gotham) and Batman of course was last seen flying the core out of Gotham so I imagine that would throw people off

*edit* shhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttttttttt beaten

 

[Reiko]

i just have to give props to heath ledger for a wonderful performance as the Joker. It was unfortunate that he got too into his character which lead to his death, but imo it made the second movie better. Bane wasn't a good enough villain in my opinion.

He was out of Joker mode when filming his next movie. He just had trouble sleeping.

 

[.GqueB.]

One thing I didn't quite get - Bruce Wayne and Batman both clearly died. How is it not assumed that Bruce Wayne is Batman? Do the people of Gotham assume that Bane just killed Wayne before Batman died?

We saw one part of the story when you think about it. Gotham is huge. Many things were happening to many people and we have to assume that alot of people died. Bruce Waynes death wouldn't immediately be tied to batmans death. This didn't happen in a vacuum. This is a living breathing city... Even though Nolan sucked at depicting that.

 

[Shrennin]

Was mentioned a few pages ago, but Wayne was last seen publicly being dragged (as a prisoner) to Bane. Missing, presumed dead like countless others.

Oh, to get to Fox. I forgot about that.

 

[smokeymicpot]

Plenty of rich people died during Bane's reign.

This is my answer for it too plus if Robin puts on Batman's suit people will be like what ever.

 

[Kevtones]

Well he did "kill" Harvey Dent, and at that time no one could have known how big Bane would be.

That just reaffirms my point; Batman's identity is one of the guiding bits of causality throughout the movie. It's wholly emphasized thematically and as the narrative driver.

 

[Tobor]

After his first line of dialogue, I turned to my friend and said this.
It ended up being part Walken, part Sean Connery.

Bane reminded me of the SNL Jeopardy skit Sean Connery. Terrible voice, and the worst performance of the movie.

Michael Caine's cry-athon was a close second.

 

[neorej]

To those that didn't like the accent on Bane's voice: Am I the only one thinking that it was intentionally made to sound like that due to the red herring of him being Ra's son? I mean there were a bunch of times during the movie that he sounded very close to Liam Neeson's Ra's.

it occurred to me, yes. especially the intonation was very similar to some of Neeson's lines

 

[JaseMath]

I'm surprised by how much this movie reminds of the dark knight returns. It had very similar vibe, probably the closest thing well ever get.

I got that, too. Before DKR, I had this fantasy that down the road when the crew involved was older, they could regroup and make TDKR (without Superman). No way that is happening now.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I think, if Heath was alive, I think Joker would had been in, and indirectly helped take out Bane somehow. Screw Bane's version of order with him at top ruling with kangaroo courts! Did you see how calm and orderly that city was?

Yea, I know, it was going to blow up.

 

[smokeymicpot]

Bane reminded me of the SNL Jeopardy skit Sean Connery. Terrible voice, and the worst performance of the movie.

Michael Caine's cry-athon was a close second.

:lol at that same thought a few times. I was hoping Bane just pulled a Connery line from the SNL skit.

 

[.GqueB.]

Nolan may have used a similar story and he may have introduced Bane as a villain, but Joker would have definitely been pretty central to Nolan's version of No Man's Land. Ledger's Joker was too iconic not to use. Also, Nolan said that he didn't come up with a story for TDKR until after Inception, I believe, so who knows what the story would have been if Ledger was alive.

Wasn't the joker pretty central? I may be mistaken, because it's been a while, but I remember the joker killing someone very important in the end. Shot to the head.

 

[TheExodu5]

Asuming her plan started shortly after Ra's death, that's 9 years she had for her revenge plot. Her ascension in the corporate world was obviously eased because she has a multinational terrorist organization backing up her every move.

I'm sure there are easier ways to get a nuke into Gotham than what she did.

 

[Tobor]

I think, if Heath was alive, I think Joker would had been in, and indirectly helped take out Bane somehow. Screw Bane's version of order with him at top ruling with kangaroo courts! Did you see how calm and orderly that city was?

Why even include Bane? The LoS could have freed Joker and let him take over Gotham. Joker running Gotham would have been far more demented and interesting than Bane's 99%ers.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Batman is Tupac.

...Wait, I got an awesome gif idea. Replace Bruce with 2pac.

 

[Zzoram]

I'm sure there are easier ways to get a nuke into Gotham than what she did.

There are radiation detectors at all airports and ports into the country. I don't know if that's true.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Loved the moment the entire police force stopped pursuing the man potentially destroying the entire financial system of the country because they saw Batman. Guess Batman (and his identity) would have to be pretty important for that too occur right? His identity would've had to have been in the headspace of the 12 million Gotham City residents we're supposed to be caring about right?

You're downplaying Batman's role in Gotham just to prove your point. As far as any of them know, he is a nearly mythic figure at this point who went on a murdering spree that ended with slaying Harvey Dent the last time anyone saw him. Furthermore, the entire police force was obeying the orders of one person who happened to A) make questionable choices several times in the film and B) was a bit obsessed with proving himself by doing something Gordon never could. JGL's character actively questions his choice as it's being made. You could imagine that much of the police force does too, but has to follow orders.

 

[Zzoram]

Why even include Bane? The LoS could have freed Joker and let him take over Gotham. Joker running Gotham would have been far more demented and interesting than Bane's 99%ers.

Ya, I think if Heath Ledger wasn't dead they would've had Joker in the role that Bane had. It would've been more emotionally impactful on Bruce too since Joker is responsible for Rachel's death.

 

[Gray Man]

I can't believe you guys didn't like Alfred crying.

I felt like absolute shit when he told Bruce's parents he had failed them, I was sold.

Ya, I think if Heath Ledger wasn't dead they would've had Joker in the role that Bane had. It would've been more emotionally impactful on Bruce too since Joker is responsible for Rachel's death.

I don't think it would have been good at all, it would be just like the Dark Knight. The Joker wouldn't want to kill all of Gotham including himself, he could never break the Bat, he is much too easy to stop.

 

[MrPink93485]

There are radiation detectors at all airports and ports into the country. I don't know if that's true.

The other thing to consider is that the reactor core was difficult to stop, because there was basically one option, hooking it back up to whatever that thing was and flooding it. That or of course, blow it up, considering Dr. Pavel was dead.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Why even include Bane? The LoS could have freed Joker and let him take over Gotham. Joker running Gotham would have been far more demented and interesting than Bane's 99%ers.

Who would kick Batman's ass then like Bane did? heh.

I don't think they would had made Joker the central bad guy again? Maybe Bane is there to "guide" Joker, idk. Then at the end, the LoS is like, get out, we don't need you anymore. Joker isn't having it, then more violent stuff happens. Maybe Joker cuts off Bane's mask to help Bruce. IDK.

Plus Joker would be around to make fun of Bruce for the Talia twist, haha.

 

[Aselith]

Well the final moments of film emphasize:

1) Batman is a faceless hero with a statue so nobody forgets who saved the city.
2) Gordon realizes who Batman is and it's a sweeping moment.
3) We infer Robin became Robin because of his convenient pre-teen intuition of figuring out Bruce as Batman.
4) People really wish they could know who Batman was.


Add in people's amazement/interest when Bruce/Batman returns to the spotlight at the same time, Catwoman's surprise at the reveal, and the general theme of identity...

Loved the moment the entire police force stopped pursuing the man potentially destroying the entire financial system of the country because they saw Batman. Guess Batman (and his identity) would have to be pretty important for that too occur right? His identity would've had to have been in the headspace of the 12 million Gotham City residents we're supposed to be caring about right?


Making the 'it's a comic book' excuse is just a cop out. One of its central narrative pillars of the film revolves WHO Batman is. Bad logic is bad logic is bad logic, particularly when a film is clearing trying to be 'more than just a comic book movie'.

The final moments of the movie emphasize that Batman is a symbol and not the person of Bruce Wayne. Bruce says something revealing to Jim Gordon to let him know who he is while at the same time emphasizing that it's important that who Batman is remain a secret to the population at large.

Effectively, it's Batman revealing himself to someone important to him but to no one else.

As for the cops breaking off pursuit, they're breaking it off because he's a wanted fugitive who killed one of their city's greatest hero and also there is a superior officer with his eyes shining for a promotion who wants to be the guy that caught Batman. He's not trying to reveal his identity. He's trying to capture him which would subsequently reveal his identity as a result.

Also, Robin became Robin because Bruce saw himself in him and also saw that he was similarly willing to fight to the last through his leadership during the Gotham under siege part. He felt he had found someone who would be an appropriate successor when he left Gotham. It had nothing to do with him knowing who he was.

You are right that people wished to know who Batman was though. That's just human curiosity.

I didn't say it's just a comic book. I said that them not inferring the truth based on circumstantial evidence was comic book logic. But most importantly it doesn't effect the overall narrative thrust of the movie.

 

[BigJonsson]

+1 to Bane's voice sounding like Ras

 

[rekameohs]

Ya, I think if Heath Ledger wasn't dead they would've had Joker in the role that Bane had. It would've been more emotionally impactful on Bruce too since Joker is responsible for Rachel's death.

I don't know. They kept talking about how they wanted a film with a villain that would challenge Bruce physically (speaking of which, that beatdown was fucking amazing), and Joker doesn't really allow for that. I could see him in Scarecrow's role - mocking the sense of order in a courtroom.

 

[smokeymicpot]

Ya, I think if Heath Ledger wasn't dead they would've had Joker in the role that Bane had. It would've been more emotionally impactful on Bruce too since Joker is responsible for Rachel's death.

Joker is only good with fucking with Batman mentally that was the point of Dark Knight. Bane was needed to fuck him up mentally and physically show. Joker was awesome but twice in a row with the same character not so much. Especially coming from the Batman universe were there is a bunch of great characters.

Joker should of had a nice little scene and that is it. Maybe even giving Batman some tips.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I'm sure there are easier ways to get a nuke into Gotham than what she did.

Easier, probably, but no where near as personal, and the fallout from a real nuke would potentially harm millions of innocents. Remember, the LoS considers themselves the good guys. The entire point (aside from killing everyone of course) was to give the site of Gotham a fresh start.

Edit: I can't believe some of your arguing that the LoS would be stupid enough to free the Joker and put him in charge of anything, after what he did to his "sponsors" in the previous film. They are crazy, not stupid.

 

[Shrennin]

Wasn't the joker pretty central? I may be mistaken, because it's been a while, but I remember the joker killing someone very important in the end. Shot to the head.

Oh, No Man's Land? He may have been. I never read it. I was referring to Nolan's current version of No Man's Land - Bane without Joker's involvement one way or the other.

EDIT: Never mind. I meant Knightfall.

 

[zethren]

Oh, I understand her motives. Her character just made no sense.

- She never forgave her father, and yet she cared enough to want to blow up 12 million people to avenge this man that she hated?

She did say to Bruce that she never was able to bring herself to forgive her father, until he "murdered" him. After that, she wanted to avenge him.

- Why did she want to blow up Gotham, exactly? Her father wanted to unleash chaos upon the city to make a point: that it was corrupt and could not be saved. She just wanted to blow it up.

She wanted to destroy Gotham, and had her own particular method of doing so. She isn't really acting on the basis of the League of Shadows, more so that she is simply finishing what her father started and destroying the city.

- Which brings me to: why wouldn't she just blow it up right away? What was the point of having the bomb on a 50+ day timer? She never expected Batman to escape the pit and come back, and she wasn't trying to make a political point.

Didn't you pay attention to the things that Bane was saying? They wanted to torture both Gotham and Bruce. By telling the people of Gotham that as long as they remain in the city, the city is theirs and it will not be blown up, it gives them all hope. Hope that they won't actually die. The people of the city didn't actually know it was on a 5 month timer. They thought they'd be fine as long as they listened to Bane's message. Bane and Talia wanted to give them hope, then destroy them and create utter despair.

- Why did she keep her identity hidden? There was literally no reason, other than to manipulate the audience.

So she could infiltrate the city and fulfill her plan...what kind of question is this, exactly? How else would she get the nuke? She had to infiltrate the city and get Bruce to build the reactor for her. This plan was a long time coming.

- How did she/Bane have control over all of the criminals? Did they not care that they were going to get blown up by a friggin' nuke as well? Why would they not rebel?

They didn't know they were going to get blown up. And Bane set them free, and enlisted them to his force. He represents a power in the city, why wouldn't they join him?

Other random complaint:

- How did 3000 cops with pistols overpower 1000+ criminals with assault rifles and tanks?

There were only a very small number of tanks, for one. And they were in a small confined area. Their numbers were able to overcome, I suppose.

Honestly, a lot of complaints I'm reading about stem from either:

A) Missing things that actually were said or happen.
B) Not understanding something that was actually quite clear.

A second viewing would benefit, I think. Most questions I had were answered and cleared up after watching it a second time.

 

[TDK Rises]

Gotta give it to Nolan. The guy knows how to finish a damn film. Inception, Prestige, BB, DARK KNIGHT(prolly my fav), TDKR. Good grief

 

[XEROWUN]

To those that didn't like the accent on Bane's voice: Am I the only one thinking that it was intentionally made to sound like that due to the red herring of him being Ra's son? I mean there were a bunch of times during the movie that he sounded very close to Liam Neeson's Ra's.

i might be totally wrong, but i think the voice was added very late in post-production. in their older trailers, you hear the voice that was recorded during filming and it was very hard to understand/hear so they re-dubbed the voice.

 

[MrPink93485]

As for the cops breaking off pursuit, they're breaking it off because he's a wanted fugitive who killed their cities greatest hero and also there is a superior officer with his eyes shining for a promotion who wants to be the guy that caught Batman. He's not trying to reveal his identity. He's trying to capture him which would subsequently reveal his identity as a result.

They also did capture one or two members. Of course, the cops didn't realize these people were willing to die for their cause.

 

[Tobor]

The Joker is Batman's archenemy, full stop. They went to this story line because Ledger died. It's common knowledge this was not plan A.

 

[Cartman86]

Would be funnier if it was The Joker who re-installed the Bat Signal

Oh god imagine if he finds the signal fixed with a joker card sitting on it. Could be Joker or Harley I don't care. Just a neat little full circle. Probably too cheesy.

 

[TheExodu5]

So she could infiltrate the city and fulfill her plan...what kind of question is this, exactly? How else would she get the nuke? She had to infiltrate the city and get Bruce to build the reactor for her. This plan was a long time coming.

I mean after she (Bane) took control of the city.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

The Joker is Batman's archenemy, full stop. They went to this story line because Ledger died. It's common knowledge this was not plan A.

Was it ever confirmed another Joker centric movie was Plan A?

What was plan A?!?! I need to know. Get Blake on it.

 

[Aselith]

They also did capture one or two members. Of course, the cops didn't realize these people were willing to die for their cause.

At that point, they also weren't aware what I threat they actually were. They probably just thought they were basically a bunch of thugs and not nearly as dangerous as Batman gone bad would be.

In fact, the one dude actually says basically that exact thing. "Go after some common criminal? Stay on the Batman!"

 

[BigJonsson]

And I guess Joker didn't mention two-face at his trial after Dark Knight........or no one believed him because he is insane in the membrane

 

[Reiko]

Oh god imagine if he finds the signal fixed with a joker card sitting on it. Could be Joker or Harley I don't care. Just a neat little full circle. Probably too cheesy.

It would make sense without taking away from Ledger's performance.

 

[MrPink93485]

I mean after she (Bane) took control of the city.

She clearly used herself as intel. Gordon tracked the reactor core to a truck, with Miranda involved. During the climax, Gordon found out it was moved to another vehicle. She also probably fed Bane some info regarding the special forces people infiltrating Gotham

 

[Shadow Hog]

Did anyone else think it was weird that we got no mentions of the Joker at all? I mean I understand that it's a sore subject since Ledger died, but still, I feel like it's worth mentioning, especially since Bane frees all the prisoner.

A few pages late to this, but it might've been interesting to hint that The Joker was planted in Gotham by the League of Shadows as a back-up plan when Ra's failed to take it down in Begins. Would retroactively make the League the villains of all three films instead of the first and third, which I suppose some would find ham-fisted, but I'd rather like.

I mean, yeah, Joker wasn't exactly out to destroy Gotham in TDK, but hell, who knows what his plans were once his little social experiments were through?

 

[M.W.]

Bane reminded me of the SNL Jeopardy skit Sean Connery. Terrible voice, and the worst performance of the movie.

Michael Caine's cry-athon was a close second.

No. You are so wrong on so many levels.

 

[zethren]

I mean after she (Bane) took control of the city.

What's the difference between her revealing herself as soon as Bane takes over, and waiting until an opportune moment towards the end of her plan?

By maintaining her ruse she is also providing for herself the best possible odds. As Miranda Tate she is protected by both Batman AND Bane. As Talia, she is only protected by Bane. You do the odds there.

Also, she deliberately threw Gordon off when they were hunting for the truck with the nuke. She was able to continue messing up the good guys from within.

There would have been no reason for her to just out herself as the bad guy earlier than she did.

 

[Staccat0]

It would make sense without taking away from Ledger's performance.

I agree. I'd have actually loved if someone mentioned the Joker slipping away. Or more interestingly, if he just stayed in his cell when everyone else (presumably) escaped

 

[parasight]

Watched it for the second time today. I never noticed that the way Bale delivers one of his last lines is tricky. He tells Catwoman there's "No autopilot" when she asks something to the effect of how he plans to get the bomb out of Gotham. But after knowing the ending, when I watched the scene again today I took it as Bale saying "No, autopilot" as in he's going to use the autopilot. Understood most of Bane's dialogue this time around too.