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Dota 2 Beta Thread 2: Real Talk Discouraged [Magnus, Teams, 6.75b, 150+ Shop Items]

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Hey, new to this thread! Been playing for a few days, but hope I can contribute somewhat ^_^

Anyway, I've been sticking to ranged heroes so far but I want to try out melee based ones. However, it's really hard to stay alive early game since while farming, it's so easy for the enemy to get a good stun and it's over for me in a few seconds. Was using Sven and I fed the enemy so much :(

and also is it better to focus on last hitting or denying?

Dont sit next to creeps, buy a lot of regen and use it, usually you want a set of tangos and a health salve. Be careful when you run forward for a last hit, try and make sure if you do take harass you get one or two last hits for it. Don't let them hit you for free. In a solo lane, denying is more important, unless you are 1v2, then you want to just stay alive.
 
Hey, new to this thread! Been playing for a few days, but hope I can contribute somewhat ^_^

Anyway, I've been sticking to ranged heroes so far but I want to try out melee based ones. However, it's really hard to stay alive early game since while farming, it's so easy for the enemy to get a good stun and it's over for me in a few seconds. Was using Sven and I fed the enemy so much :(

and also is it better to focus on last hitting or denying?

Here's a quote from the DOTA2 Eurogamer series (which everyone should read):
"Dota 2 is fencing.
That's the skill, and the appeal. I finally see it. You're fighting back and forth down these lanes, looking for an opening in the other heroes' defense. The other guy's too close to your tower, or too far from his friend, his ultimate skill's on cooldown, his health is low. Fights in other games last seconds. Fights in Dota 2 are dramatic; entire minutes of feints and narrow escapes. Duels that can span forests, roads and rivers without coming to an end."

That's especially true when you're trying to farm with a melee hero. You'll only want to go in for last hits when it's safe, and figuring out what makes you safe is a large part of learning how to play DOTA. For now, make sure you have enough of your creeps such that if an enemy hero right clicks you they'll get chased back or attacked (creeps automatically target heroes when they right click other heroes). If you don't, stay back out of enemy range. Conversely, if you're a ranged hero, it's important to figure out how to hit an enemy once or twice and then back off so you don't take more than a couple of hits from creeps. If you see their creep wave only has one left and they're sticking around, poke at them, attack them, etc. If you're playing a melee that needs a lot of farm, it's also useful to have a support hero that can stun enemies or heal you if you're in danger. And remember that when they dart out at you, they're darting into range of your and your lane mate's abilities. That doesn't mean you should always attack back, but eventually you'll learn to see openings.

As for whether to prioritize last hitting or denying, that depends on what kind of hero you're playing. If you're a carry, you need a lot of farm. If you're support, you should probably give most of the last hits to your partner in lane (when applicable) and focus on last hitting. Ideally you want to do both (unless you're supporting a carry, then ideally you give them all of the last hits).
 
I think we should organize some sort of mini community for those who are still fairly new to Dota... It seems that there are a lot of super hardcore players on this board, but also a bunch who have recently jumped into this game.

I'd be down with that.

I'm on both the neogaf and neogaf noob chat channels, although nobody posts in the latter.
 
Hey, new to this thread! Been playing for a few days, but hope I can contribute somewhat ^_^

Anyway, I've been sticking to ranged heroes so far but I want to try out melee based ones. However, it's really hard to stay alive early game since while farming, it's so easy for the enemy to get a good stun and it's over for me in a few seconds. Was using Sven and I fed the enemy so much :(

and also is it better to focus on last hitting or denying?

Best to get last hits, then harass, the denying. Denying cuts off 20% exp that the enemy would have gotten + gold, but you need gold to keep up with the game. Harassing is better than denying because it makes ganking the lane easier for other people. Sometimes its pointless to harass though if the enemy has a lot of health regen (dragon knight is a good example).
 
I still hate that you can't find the streams on the match page unless someone adds it to the comments.

Yeah, that's why I didn't think of it as a good place to find streams. I see that matches are happening, but wasn't aware that I could find the streams. Didn't think to check comments.
 
Had my first game as KOTL, and he really is a powerful support. I was fed early and quickly rushed drums, tranquil & mek and never needed to port back to base ever.
 
I've heard a technique mentioned for dropping tower aggro. How do I do it? Will I drop tower aggro without having to move away from the tower at all?
 
mtw just won the prodota final easily, and now they're doing a showmatch to promote south african dota lol. They picked Chen/Pudge/Disruptor/Bloodseeker/Earthshaker lmao. Banned out Axe/Spectre/Alchemist/Huskar/Spirit Breaker
 
As in attempt to attack a friendly creep? Does the tower just start targeting the friendly creeps around me, even if I'm the closest to the tower?
Attack a friendly creep, regardless of where you are at and it'll attack something else, even other teammates. I think it's random. Not too sure if it works when tryin to attack teammates.
 
Does the tower drop aggro even if the creep you target is above 50% HP?
Yes. I think it started out as a war3 "bug", and I guess just seemed important enough to the balance of the game that they brought it over. It does diminish the influence of rng, but it's also really unintuitive. I guess I have mixed feelings about it.

Edit: wow, I have a tag, have no idea how long I've had it, and have no idea what I got it for. Neat! And it's nice!
 
I'm having a hell of a time joining games lately. Usually go through 5-6 attempts before everyone connects. Anyone else??
 
Yes. I think it started out as a war3 "bug", and I guess just seemed important enough to the balance of the game that they brought it over. It does diminish the influence of rng, but it's also really unintuitive. I guess I have mixed feelings about it.

Edit: wow, I have a tag, have no idea how long I've had it, and have no idea what I got it for. Neat! And it's nice!

Just a note for those that don't know about this "feature". As well as attacking your own creeps to drop tower agro, you can attack your own creeps in the lane to drop agro from enemy creeps when the creeps chase you from harassing the enemy.
 
Yes. I think it started out as a war3 "bug", and I guess just seemed important enough to the balance of the game that they brought it over. It does diminish the influence of rng, but it's also really unintuitive. I guess I have mixed feelings about it.

Edit: wow, I have a tag, have no idea how long I've had it, and have no idea what I got it for. Neat! And it's nice!

Do you advocate?
 
My friend made this, hope none of you are on here!

https://twitter.com/Dota2CalloutBot

Haha I checked that. Haven't had a game that bad myself, though I may have to check my history in-game and see if I had a teammate that was up there. There have definitely been a few of those games...


Yeah, that's why I didn't think of it as a good place to find streams. I see that matches are happening, but wasn't aware that I could find the streams. Didn't think to check comments.

There's a chrome plugin called Dota 2 Steam Browser. Pretty much identical to the Team Liquid one if you've used that. It's pretty good. Don't have the link handy though.

I learned in the span of a month or two about a year ago just to make TF2 items. It doesn't take too long to learn as there are so many tutorials out there for 3D modeling for the source engine. I've moved on to making Dota items now. Much higher acceptance rate, so many more characters to model for, and you can get a lot more creative since it's all fantasy armor and weapons. Fun stuff!

Lots of helpful tutorials for TF2 items here, and Dota items are very similar to model/compile etc: http://www.kritzkast.com/tf2_mod_guide

I'm looking to get into making items as well. Trying to come up with some good concepts on paper before I dive in to learning the modeling part though. I don't really have any experience doing modeling, but I'm pretty good with Photoshop, so textures shouldn't be as much of a problem. I have a tablet, so that may come in handy. I definitely think Dota will end up being a better market than TF2 with so many characters and slots for each one. Would like to start soon and get in early if I can as that would only help for exposure and sales with fewer items on the market. Getting an item or set out early for a hero and being one of the first (or only) one available is a huge advantage. Some heroes already seem pretty saturated now in terms of items - Tide, Jugg, and Drow for example.
 
Explicit stealth-brag yeah I know, but this was one of my rare moments when I start to feel like a boss in this game...

This is me double-ulting Bloodseeker as Lina with Refresher Orb, so satisfying

1024x640.resizedimage
 
Why do you have 2 Magic Sticks?

And he's got a wand in the inventory too...

Edit: Seems we have an answer. By the way - this sparked an odd question. If (for some odd reason) ever had more than one stick/wand on you, would they both gain stacks? And would they share a cooldown? In a similar vein, I'm guessing you couldn't get two refreshers and have an endless loop there.
 
Is there a way to play with the camera locked on your hero? I'm so fucking bad at free camera its not even funny

Learn to get better at free camera. Playing with the camera locked on your hero is objectively bad. You cannot look around you and see what is going on, you're just stuck with it centered on your hero.

Perhaps what you want is something to quickly center the camera on your hero if you lose track of it. You can do this by double tapping F1 and holding it.
 
And he's got a wand in the inventory too...

Edit: Seems we have an answer. By the way - this sparked an odd question. If (for some odd reason) ever had more than one stick/wand on you, would they both gain stacks? And would they share a cooldown? In a similar vein, I'm guessing you couldn't get two refreshers and have an endless loop there.

I'd assume if you get two of the same item they'd share the same cooldown, I wouldn't have an idea about the stacks though.
 
Only one would gain stacks, and they will both share a cooldown, iirc.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, guys! Will note each down to improve my game.

Most of this game (more or less) is about understanding what the enemy wants to do to you, anticipating when they would want to do it, and recognizing when they've positioned themselves to do it, so that you can (a) avoid getting fucked up or (b) beat them to the punch and fuck them up. You won't have a grasp on either until you have played enough matches to understand each character (their early game and mana limitations) and what certain combinations of heroes want to do.

that will take time. Until you get a grasp on it, I'd recommend either sticking to ranged heroes with a decent range and reasonable last-hit animation (Wind, Death Prophet, Lich, etc.) or choose melee heroes that have an escape mechanism (like anti-mage, though I wouldn't recommend him if you're new either).

Sounds difficult to learn how not to fuck up and beat them to the punch as well. Guess I just need experience :/

Here's a quote from the DOTA2 Eurogamer series (which everyone should read):
"Dota 2 is fencing.
That's the skill, and the appeal. I finally see it. You're fighting back and forth down these lanes, looking for an opening in the other heroes' defense. The other guy's too close to your tower, or too far from his friend, his ultimate skill's on cooldown, his health is low. Fights in other games last seconds. Fights in Dota 2 are dramatic; entire minutes of feints and narrow escapes. Duels that can span forests, roads and rivers without coming to an end."

That's especially true when you're trying to farm with a melee hero. You'll only want to go in for last hits when it's safe, and figuring out what makes you safe is a large part of learning how to play DOTA. For now, make sure you have enough of your creeps such that if an enemy hero right clicks you they'll get chased back or attacked (creeps automatically target heroes when they right click other heroes). If you don't, stay back out of enemy range. Conversely, if you're a ranged hero, it's important to figure out how to hit an enemy once or twice and then back off so you don't take more than a couple of hits from creeps. If you see their creep wave only has one left and they're sticking around, poke at them, attack them, etc. If you're playing a melee that needs a lot of farm, it's also useful to have a support hero that can stun enemies or heal you if you're in danger. And remember that when they dart out at you, they're darting into range of your and your lane mate's abilities. That doesn't mean you should always attack back, but eventually you'll learn to see openings.

As for whether to prioritize last hitting or denying, that depends on what kind of hero you're playing. If you're a carry, you need a lot of farm. If you're support, you should probably give most of the last hits to your partner in lane (when applicable) and focus on last hitting. Ideally you want to do both (unless you're supporting a carry, then ideally you give them all of the last hits).

Thanks for the link! Any other articles I should read up? I've already read the one by Purge in the OT, which was really useful as a noob.

btw, I've read that wards are quite indispensable items but where is the ideal place to put them? Just near the runes or some place else?

and sorry for another question, but as a support trying to assist the carry, if they get ganked and start dying, should I rush in to sacrifice myself in order to give a chance for the carry to survive? I feel like I'm feeding the enemy if I do so, and doubly so if both the carry and me die. Kinda asking because I've had the carry complain that I didn't protect him.

I'd be down with that.

I'm on both the neogaf and neogaf noob chat channels, although nobody posts in the latter.

How do I join the neogaf noob channel? Not entirely sure how.
 
played it but didnt love it so much..
may i ask u something? i got it through the survey.. wasnt there supposed to be an extra invite with it in my inventory?
 
played it but didnt love it so much..
may i ask u something? i got it through the survey.. wasnt there supposed to be an extra invite with it in my inventory?

I believe Valve stopped giving out extras because people were selling them on eBay or something.
 
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