University Is Uneasy as Court Ruling Allows Guns on Campus

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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/e...of-colorado-causes-unease.html?pagewanted=all

BOULDER, Colo. — During her 19 years teaching English at the University of Colorado Boulder, Karen Jacobs never gave much thought to whether one of her students was carrying a gun.

As the state’s flagship university, it had a longstanding firearms ban. So even in a place like Colorado, where gun rights are nearly as deeply cherished as John Elway and fresh snow, there was never a need for concern.

But ever since a State Supreme Court ruling in March forced the university to allow those with Colorado concealed weapon permits to carry their guns on campus, Ms. Jacobs and other faculty members have found themselves increasingly uneasy.

“This is a place where we depend on being able to speak our minds and offer sometimes controversial opinions in a free and open place,” she said. “The feeling among a percentage of faculty is that this will create a climate of fear and intimidation.”

Over the last two months, with the school year in full swing, anxiety over the university’s new gun policy has risen — driven in part by the mass shooting at an Aurora movie theater on July 20 by a troubled University of Colorado Denver graduate student and by the deep scars that still cut through the state from the killings at Columbine High School 13 years ago.

Some teachers have spoken out publicly against extending the concealed gun policy to campus, fearful that an unstable student — who now, ostensibly, could be legally armed in their classrooms — might hurt them or a fellow student.

Last month, the chairman of the Faculty Assembly at the campus in Boulder, Jerry Peterson, told The Boulder Daily Camera that he would cancel class if he discovered one of his students was carrying a gun. And on Friday, faculty members gathered to discuss how to overturn the policy through legislative channels.

Gun rights proponents, conversely, have argued that lawful gun owners should not be precluded from protecting themselves on college campuses, and they contend that gun bans make those campuses less safe.

Besides, they say, anyone disturbed enough to open fire is not going to heed university policy.

“This gives us the right to protect ourselves, where currently, many colleges suspend that right,” said David Burnett, a spokesman for Students for Concealed Carry, a national group that advocates for the right to carry legally permitted guns on public college and university campuses.

According to the group, more than 200 colleges and universities in the country allow individuals to carry concealed firearms.

“Very often people come back and say allowing students to carry guns is a crazy, paranoid idea,” Mr. Burnett said. “But we’re not just talking about letting students carry guns. It’s only those people who already have the permits.”

Ever since a shooting at Virginia Tech University left 33 people dead in 2007, the issue of whether guns should be allowed on campuses has been hotly debated in statehouses around the country.

Some 21 states have an outright ban on concealed weapons on campuses, according to data compiled last month by the National Conference of State Legislatures. Two dozen states leave it up to individual universities and colleges to decide.

Five states — Oregon, Mississippi, Wisconsin, Utah and Colorado — now have provisions permitting the carrying of concealed weapons on campuses, the group said.

The controversy here dates to 2008, when a conservative legal foundation brought suit against the University of Colorado on behalf of two students and an alumnus from the school’s Colorado Springs and Denver branches.

The suit was initially dismissed, but the state appeals court overturned the dismissal. After the university appealed, Colorado’s Supreme Court held that the school’s gun ban, in place for more than 40 years, violated a 2003 state law allowing concealed firearms.

John Davis, one of the plaintiffs in the case, and then a graduate student at the University of Colorado Colorado Springs, said he had wanted to carry his Ruger p90 pistol on campus for protection, as he often found himself leaving school alone at night.

“I felt that the right to defend me and my family shouldn’t be taken away because some people are afraid of firearms and nervous around them,” said Mr. Davis, an Army veteran.

In the wake of the ruling, university officials have sought to soothe faculty fears, recently creating a policy that requires students who want to bring their firearms on campus to live in separate graduate student apartments and cottages.

Colorado law requires anyone with a concealed carry permit to be at least 21 years old. But the prospect of inserting a number of armed students, however small, into traditional college dorm life was a concern nonetheless, said Bronson Hilliard, a university spokesman. Of the school’s nearly 30,000 students, no one has requested the special housing yet, Mr. Hilliard said, and it is unclear how many students, if any, currently carry concealed guns. The university has continued to ban guns at ticketed athletic and cultural events.

But that has not quieted the nervousness among faculty members. This month, the University of Colorado Boulder provost, Russell Moore, convened a widely attended town hall meeting to address the issue.

“What was explained to the faculty was first of all, we understand what you’re saying, your fears, your concerns and your doubts,” Mr. Hilliard said. “But just being concerned about the situation doesn’t allow any faculty member to simply cancel class or refuse to teach someone because of the mere concern that somebody is exercising their concealed carry rights in the classroom.”

At the campus meeting on Friday, State Representative Claire Levy, a Democrat from Boulder, said she planned to introduce a bill during the coming legislative session that would let the university’s Board of Regents decide whether guns should be allowed.

About 30 faculty members peppered Ms. Levy with questions, some raising their personal concerns about the new policy.

“The classroom is a place where judgment is levied upon individuals, not unlike a court of law,” said Noah Molotch, an assistant professor of geography. “You interject a firearm and there’s potential for a confrontation.”.


Considering how statistically it's been shown that conceal carry laws don't increase crime or risk to public safety I think this is really much ado about nothing. Last quote made me laugh though, it's like oh no I can't be an asshole to students because one might get pissed and shoot me...because conceal carry is legal...and not otherwise is a bit absurd.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
As a gun owner and a college student I question the sanity of anyone who thinks they need to carry a gun into the classroom.
 

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Some teachers have spoken out publicly against extending the concealed gun policy to campus, fearful that an unstable student — who now, ostensibly, could be legally armed in their classrooms — might hurt them or a fellow student.

It wouldn't stop them either way.
 
As a gun owner and a college student I question the sanity of anyone who thinks they need to carry a gun into the classroom.

yeah, in my 30 years i have never been in a situation where a gun would have been useful, nor have i even heard of anyone i know needing a gun in any situation ever. (well except my grandpa who was a hunter).

so to me it's very weird to think that some people think it's normal to want to have one in a fucking classroom, so very weird. honestly it just seems like some sort of a power trip, to be able to sit in class and think "HELL YEA i'm powerful, if someone starts shit, i'm gonna stop them!". which is of course most likely not how it would actually play out.
 
so to me it's very weird to think that some people think it's normal to want to have one in a fucking classroom, so very weird. honestly it just seems like some sort of a power trip, to be able to sit in class and think "HELL YEA i'm powerful, if someone starts shit, i'm gonna stop them!". which is of course most likely not how it would actually play out.
Perhaps you missed the part where the student mentioned he wanted one because he had to leave campus late at night.
 
As a gun owner and a college student I question the sanity of anyone who thinks they need to carry a gun into the classroom.

Say that to every person ever gunned down like helpless sheep at such institutions.

If you are declared competent to wield a concealed firearm, why are you suddenly a danger on campus? Pissed that you got a D- so you blow your professor away???

I say this as a non-gun owner and college student.
 
Perhaps you missed the part where the student mentioned he wanted one because he had to leave campus late at night.

They should rely on campus security. Nobody ever gets raped or mugged on college campuses in america, and college students certainly don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens of the states in which they attend college.
 

NH Apache

Banned
They should rely on campus security. Nobody ever gets raped or mugged on college campuses in america, and college students certainly don't deserve the same rights as normal citizens of the states in which they attend college.

That is some serious bs. I hope you are joking.

Edit: I think my sarcasm meter is off.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
It wouldn't stop them either way.
That's what made the last quote rather humorous, and the implication that the Professor seemed worried he couldn't be an asshole any more.
No one who commits a school shooting would ever break the law!
what happens now when someone sees or suspects that a student has a concealed gun: HOLY SHIT CALL THE COPS/ALERT THE STAFF

what will happen in the future: people getting shot before alarm is raised.
 

Phoenix

Member
Possibly the dumbest court ruling ever. Essentially overruling the entire idea of gun free zones by imposing a ludicrous level of cost to the university since Colorado universities would not have to put metal detectors and guards all over the place to prevent this as the only restrictions that Colorado allows are:

Places off-limits when carrying:
1. Any place prohibited by federal law (e.g. federal offices or courthouse)
2. Any property of public school grades kindergarten through 12, unless the firearm remains inside a container in a locked vehicle
3. Any public building that prohibits ALL weapons which posts guards and permanent metal detectors at all entrances and requires all entrants to surrender handguns to security personnel before entry
 
Personally I would refuse to go into a class knowing anyone was armed.

Agreed. Even though nothing would probably happen, just knowing that there could be multiple people in the class carrying guns would make me feel uneasy during the whole session.
 
Agreed. Even though nothing would probably happen, just knowing that there could be multiple people in the class carrying guns would make me feel uneasy during the whole session.
You know that you've never had a police officer who is a part time student in your class? I've had one who was a uniformed officer who would just come in full gear as his watches were scheduled around it. Never cared one bit.

Possibly the dumbest court ruling ever. Essentially overruling the entire idea of gun free zones by imposing a ludicrous level of cost to the university since Colorado universities would not have to put metal detectors and guards all over the place to prevent this as the only restrictions that Colorado allows are:
Gun free zones are one of the dumbest ideas to come from "gun control" advocates.
 
You know that you've never had a police officer who is a part time student in your class? I've had one who was a uniformed officer who would just come in full gear as his watches were scheduled around it. Never cared one bit.
Oh you mean someone trained and employed by the government? And not someone who simply filled out a form and didn't even have to prove he's not mentally insane?
 

soultron

Banned
"Hey man, I left a six of Natty Ice and my USP at our house. I called Mike but I think he's sleeping or went home for the weekend. Can you bring them to the party and I'll get you pizza on the way home?"

This has the potential to go awry. I feel gun owners are responsible, but seeing as how booze-soaked some campuses are (mine certainly was) this doesn't sound like a good idea. We had people regularly stabbing each other at parties where I went to school, so I can only imagine how shitty it'd get with guns.
 
The teachers could use one with a laser sight as the new board pointer, and they could fire a round off to get the class quiet. So many useful applications!
 

Ultima_5

Member
Lets give immature, hormone driven, stressed out kids guns in a place packed full of other immature, hormone driven, stressed out kids. Great idea
 

Ledsen

Member
I always imagine living in America to be like living in some post-apocalyptic movie, constantly fearing for your life and not knowing who to trust, patting the comfortable shape of your gun through your jacket when strangers pass by. At least that's what gun-proponents make it sound like.
 
You know that you've never had a police officer who is a part time student in your class? I've had one who was a uniformed officer who would just come in full gear as his watches were scheduled around it. Never cared one bit.

Never had a police officer as a student in my classes. I am from the UK though, and we can't carry guns around anyway (and the police rarely do either), so this wouldn't happen. But besides, a police officer I'd probably be fine with. But anyone? Seems like things could quite easily go wrong.
 
Because arming more people is more likely to cause less damage, I'm sure.
Statistical it hasn't caused any more harm
As Lott critics Ian Ayres and John J. Donohue III pointed out: "We conclude that Lott and Mustard have made an important scholarly contribution in establishing that these laws have not led to the massive bloodbath of death and injury that some of their opponents feared.

A hell of a lot more than most college students, I'd guess. But keep making the ridiculous comparison to try to make this sound like a good idea.
Nope. Most cops fire a box of ammo a year. Look at the stellar NYPD recently.
 

Phoenix

Member
You know that you've never had a police officer who is a part time student in your class? I've had one who was a uniformed officer who would just come in full gear as his watches were scheduled around it. Never cared one bit.


Gun free zones are one of the dumbest ideas to come from "gun control" advocates.

A "right" to bear arms in a concealed manner is one of the dumbest ideas to come from "gun rights" advocated.
 
Oh you mean someone trained and employed by the government? And not someone who simply filled out a form and didn't even have to prove he's not mentally insane?

My friend tried to get one. Denied for past mental issues. So, yeah. Prove you aren't unbalanced. The "problem" is psychotic that can manage to hide all outward signs of their problems.

Because arming more people is more likely to cause less damage, I'm sure.

As opposed to letting shooters have free reign to go on massive murder sprees where your only defense is "sure hope I don't get gunned down".
 

Ledsen

Member
As opposed to letting shooters have free reign to go on massive murder sprees where your only defense is "sure hope I don't get gunned down".

It's insane to me that any normal person would advocate arming citizens for fear of crazy gunmen. And I don't mean that those people are insane, I mean the fact that US society is apparently so fucked up and steeped in guns and violence that anyone would even have a reason to come up with such an argument.
 

Stet

Banned
As opposed to letting shooters have free reign to go on massive murder sprees where your only defense is "sure hope I don't get gunned down".

Glad you have all that statistical proof that a college full of concealed weapons will result in anything different.
 
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