iPhone 5
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Marty Chinn
Member
From DPReview.com
I think I trust them way more than I would trust Consumer Reports on the matter.
It's not hard to take the same photo under the same condition and to see if there's a flare. I trust both of them on the matter. I think it's pretty easy to conclude (like they both did) that lens flare has been a common thing to all cameras.
Maybe the 5 has a higher propensity to flare, maybe it doesn't. It's hard to conclude these things based on different people's testing, which will have different lighting conditions.
You can't be serious with the first three. Dpreview and Consumer Reports are pretty trustworthy sources.
Baconsammy
Banned
I'd trust DPReview over anybody. The iPhone 5 isn't the best phone on the market. It's the best iPhone on the market, and people who want an iPhone should want it.
I think Bluetooth pairing and AirPlay are dead simple as they are and can be improved without tacking on NFC.
The DS Wifi bubble (basically AirDrop with Wifi Direct) can be better than NFC, especially if you want to share with multiple devices, and you're going to engage WiFi direct anyway if you're doing so.
I guess sharing a one-off webpage or photo could help with NFC, I just think that an AirDrop like feature can work better. Even better if iDevices can become AirPlay receivers in their own right without hacks or apps.
I'd like it to open doors, I guess.
But NFC, if it comes, will be there for payments, first and foremost. Especially the related functions for everything in PassBook that isn't actually payments per se--tickets, coupons, loyalty cards.
jts
...hate me...
"Somewhat" and "a little" are not exactly strong and conclusive sentiments though. In the end, dpreview's conclusion is that it's a normal thing, just like Apple said and people were stupidly flipping out about.
Marty Chinn
Member
So pretty much the translation here is you can't find it in your imagination for there to be a good use for NFC outside of payments. So you are arguing against NFC outside of payments.
I don't think anyone has said flaring wasn't normal. But the amount and intensity is different across cameras. It's not equal. Some are better; some are worse. DPReview makes the claim that the iPhone 4 and 4S has less flare, so the iPhone 5 camera is worse in that regard. So to some who find the flaring to be a bit more than they'd like, the iPhone 5 camera is a step down for them over a 4S or 4. Nobody said it wasn't normal; people were questioning to the degree of how it compares.
BolognaSoup
Member
And you pretty much translate to "I can imagine it to be good" so it is good to tack it on.
You still haven't explained why you think NFC would be better than an AirPlay Direct or iOS Share (to build on top of the AirPlay and Home Sharing that already exists in AppleTV). Tacking on the ability to wave your device at an AV system that's several yards away from viewing distance just because you "find it in your imagination" to do so isn't an argument for why it's a good use case.
jts
...hate me...
I think that at least some people were claiming that it wasn't normal... after all, there were complaints about Apple's response to that dude that noticed the flare. And "Apple" (more like, a regular Apple employee) just said that according to the engineers it was a normal thing and to avoid that the user should avoid composing the picture in such a way. Or was there not internet bitching about this response?
Sure, the iPhone 5 camera may be more susceptible to lens flare, (just like, say, the iPhone 4 camera had a blue tint effect), but dpreview also states that it's not an inferior camera to the iPhone 4S's.
So what's really the discussion or the point here?
I read your examples that all involved physical contact between phone and device. Is NFC solely based on physical contact to initiate the connection? If so then, I'm just don't see that taking off all that much. Stuff like shared photostream or whatever that Samsung equivalent they have the commercial for I can see being more successful.
Marty Chinn
Member
I gave plenty of use cases that all seemed reasonable under the cohesive understanding that it would be a gesture that the end user could be easy to understand regardless of what the use case was. You're talking about, do this for this instance, do something else for another instance. I'm talking about avoid needing to know is this Bluetooth, or is this WiFi or any of that. What's wrong with using those other things alone? The initial handshake is the problem. You need to pull up a list of available devices and then select, and maybe even need a password depending on what the range or the device is. NFC doesn't mean there won't be cases where a password won't be needed or some sort of authentication, but having the range reduced certainly reduces the need for one in many cases. Then have you ever did a scanning of devices in the area? Ever look at just WiFi access points and see multiple listings of Linksys or Netgear because people don't even change the name to make it unique? You get rid of all that hassle and confusion to establish a connection which is surely something that fits the bill of the audience that an iOS device caters to.
Forget about me for a second though. Forget the idea of shooting down ideas. Do you really have no imagination on how this could be used outside of payments? I asked you to use it and all you did was shoot down ideas. Think positive. Use your imagination and give some ideas.
I think the problem was the way Apple reacts to things by shrugging them off when there is an issue saying it's normal and pretending that the person is at fault or imagining things. That's not what they say directly but that's how it comes off. There is clearly to some a higher flare or increase amount of purple coloring than they had before. That to them is a degradation in their eyes for the pictures because it stands out more regardless of the other capabilities of the camera. It's front facing and for Apple to give that response and people to defend it is telling these people that they're wrong when they aren't. It's also one thing were it is susceptible compared to other cameras but for many they're upgrading from an iPhone and in this regard, it is a downgrade. I can understand being annoyed by it. That's the point.
It doesn't have to be physical contact but just close enough between the two items for there to be a connection. Shared photostream is for something that people use often, like family members. Giving a photo to your friend that you just took of them is more of a single case instance where you want to do that but not expose them to your complete photo history. Forget Samsung. Their example is pretty stupid. As I've said before, NFC can be used as a simple way of handshaking between two devices for them to talk to each other via other protocols after the fact (Bluetooth, WiFi, etc) that hides all the details of making a connection from the end user.
Thanks for this. Same seller worked for me, too. I wonder how he is doing it? He has to be doing something shady, right? I hope Apple/AT&T don't wind up reversing it.
Just bought this sleeve, cannot wait for it. I've been using a Nexus S for the past few weeks and it is driving me crazy with it's low res screen and terrible touch sensors. It's areas like that where I (me, just me) feel that iOS and iPhone excel.
http://www.etsy.com/listing/111326500/iphone-sleeve-iphone-5-case-iphone-5
http://www.etsy.com/listing/111326500/iphone-sleeve-iphone-5-case-iphone-5
I think I have used my imagination for better ideas. Please explain how NFC is better than an ad-hoc WiFi bubble, especially if it uses a limited protocol that doesn't show up with incompatible devices, like building on top of AirDrop, Home Sharing, Airplay. I would rather initiate a bubble and then tap my screen to select the device I want to connect to, instead of getting up and walking to the AV system to tap my iPad on the Apple TV to initiate a pairing. I would rather turn on a bubble and share my PDF with everyone's iPad in the meeting instead of going to each person's iPad and tapping their iPad backs with my iPad.
jts
...hate me...
I thought you said yourself it was normal, so now it's an issue again?
For Apple to say it's an issue, it'd be saying that the phone is defective, which is not. Is the fact that the iPad 3 being heavier than the 2, which is a downgrade, an issue? No, it's not. It's normal, it's spec. I can understand that the users can be annoyed by it as well, at least I am. But then what? Should I email Apple and be entitled to expect them to apologize for their deliberate engineering trade-off?
The girl was nice in her response and even offered her contact and working schedule to keep up with the guy's concerns. Somehow this was Apple being arrogant and it turns into bad press. smh.
Marty Chinn
Member
Just say NFC is pointless outside of payments. Heck maybe it's even pointless for payments under your view. We can move on.
Nice selective quoting there. Please include the whole quote because it's not one or the other, it's the combination of the two.
NFC brings some nice things to the table, for sure, and I am certain Apple will introduce it when they want to. But people can't have it both ways. You can't say that Apple is late in adopting NFC because everyone else has it, while saying that NFC adoption is low because Apple hasn't added it to their products. Apple is free to add whatever technologies they want to their devices, and the market is free to either embrace it, or ignore it.
As for the camera issue. If you were charged with the task of deciding how Apple should have written this letter, appeased their customers, or do whatever needed to be done to make things right, what would you have done?
I never said its pointless outside of payments. I think helping handshake Bluetooth can be useful, but I don't think it offers that big of an improvement outside of the way things work with modern Bluetooth accessories.
I think some of its purported improvements can be arrived at with improving on existing systems, and I think those improvements would be better than NFC. As much as you've spent time talking about NFC and Apple TV, I have yet to see your argument for why you think my suggestions for improvement aren't better. It seems like you're just ignoring it like when you claimed Bluetooth could have been used instead of AirPlay, when AirPlay is fundamentally better and more versatile than Bluetooth in quality, range, and function. I guess that's what you mean by "moving on," ignoring arguments, simplifying them, and then, instead of telling me why my arguments are wrong, just profess that I lack imagination. We all already know that you've got quite the imagination, Marty, but that does not make for a good argument.
Marty Chinn
Member
I agree, but I don't think we were debating whether they were late or not. We were just debating if it was useful or not. I don't think Apple is late, I just was expecting them to have it now to build off of. I agree that Apple can do what they like, but we also can criticize them on it as well.
Something along the lines of all cameras when pointed at a light source are susceptible to a varying degree of lens flare. While under certain conditions you may see a slight bit more of a flare than in the past, it is still within a normal range that can be expected from a camera and we believe all the enhancements and improvements to the iPhone 5 camera outweigh this slight change. Not that exact wording but something along that line. It's a bit more admitting to something than Apple would do, but then again so was their statement about Maps.
This is one of the things I've been saying though. The ease of the handshake between devices. That's the primary thing I've been pushing.
I never ignored it but didn't see that post until now. You stated Bluetooth would result in a audio quality loss but the bandwidth for Bluetooth has more than enough bandwidth for good quality audio. We're not talking about video, we're talking about the introduction of AirPlay at the time too. Video and mirroring came long after AirPlay was introduced and was later expanded to include those features. Why we're limiting to it? Because at the time one could say AirPlay seemed pointless because Bluetooth audio existed. Plus it seems to me that most Apple owners are on the side of good enough quality rather than best quality. Hence the audio quality of the music from iTunes and the lack of FLAC support, people thinking iTunes video content is good enough to not need Blu Ray quality on Apple devices including a Blu Ray drive on a Mac, and thinking that Netflix streaming is good enough as well. That's the audience that these devices cater to.
It's pretty clear you're hard set on your view without any room to budge. It's the reason I asked you to offer up some suggestions on how it could be used if you find that it's not pointless. But you continued on trying to show why it shouldn't be used even after the fact. It wasn't even until this post that you clearly agreed with one of my points to how it can be used. I'm saying use that gesture, regardless of the tech, hide it all to the end user, and make it so that's how you can communicate with another device and hide all the handshaking issues. Make the connection instant too rather than needing to take time to handshake and sync. NFC is a means to doing that while other techniques still make you go through a connection process. How do you hide the connection process with your other examples?
Isn't that exactly what they said?
The only thing different about their statement is that they added a suggestion to the end of how to fix it, which everyone reads as "derp derp you're doing it wrong, too bad".
Marty Chinn
Member
They made it sound like there was no difference between the iPhone 5 and the iPhone 4 and 4S. What I said factors that in.
Corwood Rep
Member
Hey Apple bros,
I know this may not be the ideal thread, but figured I'd ask anyway.
I'm looking for an iPhone 4S 64GB (AT&T) to replace my old one and have got nothing but dead ends so far. Any ideas? I am not going to upgrade to the new thing because I can't afford to replace accessories and stuff. A new case and a dock connector and I'm out another $70 or some shit. Not paying $500 for the same storage space/usability I had before.
Pretty desperate at this point. Dunno exactly what to do.
I know this may not be the ideal thread, but figured I'd ask anyway.
I'm looking for an iPhone 4S 64GB (AT&T) to replace my old one and have got nothing but dead ends so far. Any ideas? I am not going to upgrade to the new thing because I can't afford to replace accessories and stuff. A new case and a dock connector and I'm out another $70 or some shit. Not paying $500 for the same storage space/usability I had before.
Pretty desperate at this point. Dunno exactly what to do.
look for used phones. Should be quite a few from upgraders selling their old phones.
ebay or craigslist maybe?
Marty Chinn
Member
Do you have a Fry's Electronics near you?
LyleLanley
Banned
http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/devices/apple/iphone/4s-64gb-black-refurb.html
That's a refurbished phone direct from AT&T, other than that I think your only other options are eBay/Craigslist.
Corwood Rep
Member
Anybody have experience with refurbs? I don't want to pay near-retail for something with a busted up camera or scratched screen or whatever. In principle that sounds fine though.
Marty Chinn
Member
Getting a refurb directly from Apple or someone selling a refurb from Apple is practically getting a brand new looking device minus the original box.
Corwood Rep
Member
a'ight, cool. Anybody know how much this will actually cost? I'm on a family plan with no account access and recall there being some sort of "they charge sales tax on the price for an unlocked one plus a fuck you upgrade fee" issue.
The fuck you upgrade fee is $36, but if you're a good customer (long history/large monthly bill) you can get it reduced or waived entirely. No idea regarding the tax. For one thing, it probably depends what state you are in.
Now you're just being picky.
Marty Chinn
Member
I think it makes all the difference. It's one thing where you tell someone who feels there is a difference that it's normal and there's no difference vs it's normal but you're not seeing things. That's why people got upset and didn't like the response because it didn't feel like an acknowledgment but rather a deflection.
Does this happen to anybody?
http://isource.com/2012/07/03/imessage-thinks-im-having-two-separate-chats-with-the-same-person/
It's made a separate chat in iMessage with one of my friends.
When I hit contact at the top, one highlights her phone number, and the other highlights her email address.
She only has an iPhone. Though, why does it sometimes send from phone and sometimes from email?
And more importantly, why wouldn't it just merge them since they're both from the same contact?
http://isource.com/2012/07/03/imessage-thinks-im-having-two-separate-chats-with-the-same-person/
It's made a separate chat in iMessage with one of my friends.
When I hit contact at the top, one highlights her phone number, and the other highlights her email address.
She only has an iPhone. Though, why does it sometimes send from phone and sometimes from email?
And more importantly, why wouldn't it just merge them since they're both from the same contact?
Does she have her iMessage caller ID as her email?
If that's the case, that's why it shows two threads.
When you message her phone number, it starts a thread.
If she messages you via a new message, it will show as her email.
Thank you kindly. I believe that is the case.
Betta Lines
Member
There's a GSM only model?
Betta Lines
Member
From the tech specs page:
- GSM model A1428*: UMTS/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz); LTE (Bands 4 and 17)
- CDMA model A1429*: CDMA EV-DO Rev. A and Rev. B (800, 1900, 2100 MHz); UMTS/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz); LTE (Bands 1, 3, 5, 13, 25)
- GSM model A1429*: UMTS/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz); LTE (Bands 1, 3, 5)
- 802.11a/b/g/n Wi-Fi (802.11n 2.4GHz and 5GHz)
- Bluetooth 4.0 wireless technology
I think it's safe to assume the one they send out in the UK will work on the UK 4G network.
- GSM model A1428*: UMTS/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz); LTE (Bands 4 and 17)
- CDMA model A1429*: CDMA EV-DO Rev. A and Rev. B (800, 1900, 2100 MHz); UMTS/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz); LTE (Bands 1, 3, 5, 13, 25)
- GSM model A1429*: UMTS/HSPA+/DC-HSDPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz); GSM/EDGE (850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz); LTE (Bands 1, 3, 5)
- 802.11a/b/g/n Wi-Fi (802.11n 2.4GHz and 5GHz)
- Bluetooth 4.0 wireless technology
I think it's safe to assume the one they send out in the UK will work on the UK 4G network.
Just looked at the 5 in the grand central store.
It's sexy, crazy light. Feels slightly too narrow now for how tall it is.
Great hardware though. But. Is it right for me anymore?
I jailbreak and use Chrome (bookmark sync) and Sparrow (multiple account handling) as default apps. I make use of google maps constantly and I'm envious of the full featured android version. I use IRC a lot, and would be on in the background 100% of the time if I could, but can't on iPhone.
I'm traveling a lot and end up needing to carry an external battery pack the size of my phone, or a battery case that doubles the size of my phone, since the iPhone doesn't have a removable battery and doesn't last all day.
Shit. I need an Android phone, don't I?
It's sexy, crazy light. Feels slightly too narrow now for how tall it is.
Great hardware though. But. Is it right for me anymore?
I jailbreak and use Chrome (bookmark sync) and Sparrow (multiple account handling) as default apps. I make use of google maps constantly and I'm envious of the full featured android version. I use IRC a lot, and would be on in the background 100% of the time if I could, but can't on iPhone.
I'm traveling a lot and end up needing to carry an external battery pack the size of my phone, or a battery case that doubles the size of my phone, since the iPhone doesn't have a removable battery and doesn't last all day.
Shit. I need an Android phone, don't I?
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Probably. Unless you're in love with iOS or the actual design of Apple hardware sounds like Android would make sense.
I'm still waiting till the first week of November. :x
Well if you're going to continue traveling then yes.Sounds like it lol. Couldn't really paint a better checklist for the switch lol.
Yes, definitely.
-Going by the reputable hackers in the scene, there won't be a jailbreak for some time. Could take months. So things like running IRC in the background is out the window for now.
-Replaceable battery
-Google Maps