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[Enron]

Find me an equivalently luxurious and well performing car that's as highly recommended in this price range.

The car is actually great value; not just for an EV, but just as a vehicle. It's just not priced for the poors.

We've already had this exact argument, remember? the last Tesla S thread autoGAF provided models and numbers of cars of similar or better performance that costed far less. non-autoGAF? Didn't even know the difference between a Sedan and a Coupe.

And yes, this car is not priced for everyone. Hopefully Tesla will make a more accessible car for their next model, one that will actually save you money vs. a similar ICE car. Until then, meh.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Find me an equivalently luxurious and well performing car that's as highly recommended in this price range.

The car is actually great value; not just for an EV, but just as a vehicle. It's just not priced for the poors.

$50k-$60k family sedans?

-Cadillac CTS
-Cadillac ATS
-Lexus LS
-BMW 5-series
-MB E-class
-Infinity M series
-Audi A4
-Audi A6
-Hyundai Genesis

All come very highly recommended and are in that price range. All will continue running after the 160-mile base model Tesla has stopped. The Tesla will run quieter and cost less to fuel and maintain, though. 0-60 time is noteworthy too, and probably better than almost all of the above.

 

[Snakeyes]

Well deserved. Can't wait until EVs really take off.

 

[AstroNut325]

We've already had this exact argument, remember? the last Tesla S thread autoGAF provided models and numbers of cars of similar or better performance that costed far less. non-autoGAF? Didn't even know the difference between a Sedan and a Coupe.

And yes, this car is not priced for everyone. Hopefully Tesla will make a more accessible car for their next model, one that will actually save you money vs. a similar ICE car. Until then, meh.

If the only metric for judging motor vehicles is raw performance then... yeah. Otherwise no.

 

[sk3]

I would think about getting one if the wait list wasn't insane.

And the SUV version is butt ugly. I may get an evoque instead.

 

[Zaptruder]

$50k-$60k family sedans?

-Cadillac CTS
-Cadillac ATS
-Lexus LS
-BMW 5-series
-MB E-class
-Infinity M series
-Audi A4
-Audi A6
-Hyundai Genesis

All come very highly recommended and are in that price range. All will continue running after the 160-mile base model Tesla has stopped. The Tesla will run quieter and cost less to fuel and maintain, though. 0-60 time is noteworthy too, and probably better than almost all of the above.

Well great. Then it's competitively priced against a great set of cars @ under 50k after rebate, providing superior performance and feature set on a few fronts.

 

[Face it Tiger..]

Bu-bu Fisker Karma

 

[CharlieDigital]

We've already had this exact argument, remember? the last Tesla S thread autoGAF provided models and numbers of cars of similar or better performance that costed far less.

This is a ridiculous argument because it can be made for any luxury car.

 

[Enron]

providing superior performance

Yeah, if you are comparing the $100k Performance S version to these $40k luxury cars.

This is a ridiculous argument because it can be made for any luxury car.

Except that the Tesla S is a luxury car, therefore comparisons to these other luxury cars is completely valid.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

It has a lot to do with the jobs it creates. And, of course, there's all that pesky cash.

And I'd also argue that because it's California based There are no job creators here remember because of taxes.

 

[hillsighed]

40K.

This car is 40K? What the fuck. That's a whole lot of sexy for 40,000 dollars.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Except that the Tesla S is a luxury car, therefore comparisons to these other luxury cars is completely valid.

And in those comparisons, it fares well with the competitors in the price range?

I mean, fuck those automotive journalists at Motor Trend who drive these cars day in and day out, right? What do they know? Fuck them; they're just part of the liberal media conspiracy!

What the fuck are you on? Get off your high horse. You don't know shit and you've proved it in two threads today.

 

[SouthernDragon]

I would think about getting one if the wait list wasn't insane.

And the SUV version is butt ugly. I may get an evoque instead.

Wait list is 9 months currently, though they are trying to get it down to 3.

 

[SouthernDragon]

And in those comparisons, it fares well with the competitors in the price range?

I mean, fuck those automotive journalists at Motor Trend who drive these cars day in and day out, right? Fuck them; they're just part of the liberal media conspiracy!

What the fuck are you on?

Electric cars suck, duh.

 

[Loofy]

$50k-$60k family sedans?

-Cadillac CTS
-Cadillac ATS
-Lexus LS
-BMW 5-series
-MB E-class
-Infinity M series
-Audi A4
-Audi A6
-Hyundai Genesis

If this is teslas competition then I dont see the problem. If you threw in a regular engine inside and rebadged it I dont think anyone would blink at spending that much cash. That giant LCD is standard though right?

All will continue running after the 160-mile base model Tesla has stopped.

Most people would consider the electric motor to be a premium feature. Just as hybrid technology is a premium feature on luxury cars.

 

[CharlieDigital]

I mean, God forbid an American car company innovates and does well.

Enron, get the fuck out of my country and revoke your citizenship.

 

[Zaptruder]

Yeah, if you are comparing the $100k Performance S version to these $40k luxury cars.




Except that the Tesla S is a luxury car, therefore comparisons to these other luxury cars is completely valid.

No. 50k version fares well against 50k models from other manufacturers.

Doing a quick comparison between the BMW 528i (which in my rough estimation is the same target market they're going for), we find a 0-60 of 6.6 on the Tesla base and 0-60 of 6.3 for the i5.

In practical driving situations the Tesla wins out, providing more of that torque up front, allowing you to get up to legal speeds quicker in city driving, and allowing you to feel less like you're burning through gas when you accelerate hard off the line.

Also has a better car user interface than the BMW (fucking i-drive continues to be atrocious).

 

[Enron]

And in those comparisons, it fares well with the competitors in the price range?

What the fuck are you on?

Again, this argument was already had.

And in those comparisons, it fares well with the competitors in the price range?

I mean, fuck those automotive journalists at Motor Trend who drive these cars day in and day out, right? What do they know? Fuck them; they're just part of the liberal media conspiracy!

What the fuck are you on? Get off your high horse. You don't know shit and you've proved it in two threads today.

I mean, God forbid an American car company innovates and does well.

Enron, get the fuck out of my country and revoke your citizenship.

Wow, was any of that really necessary? This thread was fairly civil up until these two gems.

I don't fucking car what some dipshits in Neogaf think when I have the opinion of folks who drive better cars than you or I will ever drive day in and day out.

You think you're that fucking smart? You think you know everything?

You're the worst type of idiot out there.

GTFO of this thread if you're just going to troll.

make that THREE gems.

In that thread I linked above, people were holding up the performance figures of the 85khw Model S (the only one we have specs for since Tesla hasn't released figures for the others) to the luxury cars reilo and I had mentioned and claimed it was competitive, since Tesla has a model S that is priced similarly. However, the 85khw Model S costs at least 70k for the regular one, and 87k or so for the "performance" line. So, spec sheets for a 70k car are being compared to similar cars costing 30k less and being hailed as "competitive".

Even the car that Motor Trend tested was the 85kwh version. If the 85kwh is competitive with your typical 40-50k luxury car, how much less are the 40kwh specs going to be? We don't really know until Tesla reveals those, but they are not going to measure up to the 85kwh version.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Again, this argument was already had.

I don't fucking car what some dipshits in Neogaf think when I have the opinion of folks who drive better cars than you or I will ever drive day in and day out.

You think you're that fucking smart? You think you know everything?

You're the worst type of idiot out there. Yeah, these guys drive MBs, Audis, Astons, BMWs, Infinitis, Acuras, Bugattis, Ferraris, Lambos day in and day out and you know what? I think I know more than them about cars. Whatever, bro.

People who think like this are the worst types of idiots.

GTFO of this thread if you're just going to troll.

I don't care if I get a ban because I'm doing you a life service by telling you that you're an idiot and someone needs to let you know.

 

[UrokeJoe]

Yup... not having a traditional drive train is awesome in many ways!

 

[AstroNut325]

I don't fucking car what some dipshits in Neogaf think when I have the opinion of folks who drive better cars than you or I will ever drive day in and day out.

You think you're that fucking smart? You think you know everything?

You're the worst type of idiot out there. Yeah, these guys drive MBs, Audis, Astons, BMWs, Infinitis, Acuras, Bugattis, Ferraris, Lambos day in and day out and you know what? I think I know more than them about cars. Whatever, bro.

People who think like this are the worst types of idiots.

GTFO of this thread if you're just going to troll.

I don't care if I get a ban because I'm doing you a life service by telling you that you're an idiot and someone needs to let you know.

Dude... I agree with you but...

You need this:

 

[gcubed]

At least in the OT reviewers are never questioned and are the gold standard.

 

[djSyndrome]

I mean, God forbid an American car company innovates and does well.

Anything is possible when Toyota is signing the checks.

 

[CrankyJay]

Wow, fucking sexy.

 

[Vilix]

And I'd also argue that because it's California based There are no job creators here remember because of taxes.

I know. A lot of them have been moving to Arizona and Texas.

 

[AstroNut325]

I didn't realize a station wagon = mid-size sedan.

 

[Router]

First all electric car id even consider buying. I wish more ev/hybrid cars looked this good. The price is pretty amazing considering the tech, build size and the company. It's only going to get better from here.

I wish they would kick out an EV hot hatch. id be all over that man. The next 10 years will be very interesting.

 

[jchap]

I don't understand the mouth foaming defense of a vehicle review against someone who has a different opinion. Game reviewers play way more games than most of us and yet I disagree with their opinions on a regular basis.

For some with reasonable commutes and a second car, this vehicle is a decent value. I personally think it looks great style wise. I wish it came as an EV first hybrid but you can't have it all.

I think pure electric vehicles are still about a decade away. Batteries need to mature in terms of depth of charge over the lifetime and energy density before they will be on a totally level playing field with ICE. By that time the cost of these systems will have hopefully significantly decreased and electric cars will score a foothold on the mainstream public.

 

[ascii42]

Even the car that Motor Trend tested was the 85kwh version. If the 85kwh is competitive with your typical 40-50k luxury car, how much less are the 40kwh specs going to be? We don't really know until Tesla reveals those, but they are not going to measure up to the 85kwh version.

From the website, this is the breakdown:

40 kWh: $49,900 Range: 160 miles 0-60 in 6.5 seconds
60 kWh: $59,900 Range: 230 miles 0-60 in 5.9 seconds
85 kWh: $69,900 Range: 300 miles 0-60 in 5.6 seconds
85 kWh Performance: $84,900 Range: 300 miles 0-60 in 4.4 seconds

All of those prices are after the $7,500 tax break

I didn't realize a station wagon = mid-size sedan.

It's a hatchback, so it's really more like a much nicer looking Accord Crosstour.

 

[MeBecomingI]

Awesome news for Tesla. I'm eager to hear about the other models they are planning right now that will supposedly retain the luxury look of their current models but a lot more affordable than the Model S.

This company needs to succeed and this is a good start for them to getting into the public eye.

 

[Enron]

From the website, this is the breakdown:

40 kWh: $49,900 0-60 in 6.5 seconds
60 kWh: $59,900 0-60 in 5.9 seconds
85 kWh: $69,900 0-60 in 5.6 seconds
85 kWh Performance: $84,900 0-60 in 4.4 seconds

All of those prices are after the $7,500 tax break

This is what I see on the Tesla Model S site.

just 0-60 times, but no other drivetrain figures for the non 85kwh models

 

[Zaptruder]

I don't understand the mouth foaming defense of a vehicle review against someone who has a different opinion. Game reviewers play way more games than most of us and yet I disagree with their opinions on a regular basis.

For some with reasonable commutes and a second car, this vehicle is a decent value. I personally think it looks great style wise. I wish it came as an EV first hybrid but you can't have it all.

I think pure electric vehicles are still about a decade away. Batteries need to mature in terms of depth of charge over the lifetime and energy density before they will be on a totally level playing field with ICE. By that time the cost of these systems will have hopefully significantly decreased and electric cars will score a foothold on the mainstream public.

SMH.

People get annoyed because of the constant unnecessary FUD been leveled by uninformed people that want to reinforce their internal narratives, rather than actually consider the facts.

@ 160 miles, it provides the vast majority of commuters with more than sufficient range for any daily commute that they require. It also covers the vast majority of their traveling needs in general.

For the average consumer, they would be better off using an EV for the vast majority of their travels, and then rent a gas vehicle if they need to travel much longer distances.

EVs will never overcome the quick refueling advantage that gas vehicles have that can indefinetly extend their range - and that pretty much feels like what naysayers are comparing it to.

No amount of range advancements will leave them 'satisfied' (i.e. satisfy their bullshit griping, because they just want things to stay the same as much as possible), unless every single con is eliminated (in this case quick (as in a minute or two) recharging of cars).

 

[bcl0328]

It starts at $49900 after the $7500 tax credit, according to the website. Some states also offer additional tax credits.

are you sure? my co-worker got one recently and i'm pretty sure he paid around 80 for it. he had the signature one.

 

[gcubed]

how far away from a 15 minute 80% charge are we?

 

[Elfforkusu]

Of course it is!

That low center of gravity (with the battery beneath the floor) is brilliant. Assuming it doesn't lead to horrible exploding car accidents, I can't wait until other manufacturers copy the design to get better range/cornering out of their EVs as well.

 

[Desavona]

How are these things in a crash? Are we going to be looking forward to airborne battery packs?

 

[Enron]

are you sure? my co-worker got one recently and i'm pretty sure he paid around 80 for it. he had the signature one.

Yes. The 50k dollar one isn't out yet. The only Tesla Model S that are availble for purchase are the 85kwh Signature ones, which run you around 80-90k.

 

[UrokeJoe]

I didn't realize a station wagon = mid-size sedan.

I was more onto the traditional drive train. Anyways that mid size is bigger than this wagon, and it wasn't meant to be an argument. Just saying...

 

[twinturbo2]

Of course, I fully expect the haters to point out the shitty cars to Recieve the Golden Calipers and complain that the Ford Fusion/Scion FR-S/Porsche 911 were robbed.

Electric cars are the future. Deal with it.

 

[Enron]

Of course, I fully expect the haters to point out the shitty cars to Recieve the Golden Calipers and complain that the Ford Fusion/Scion FR-S/Porsche 911 were robbed.

Electric cars are the future. Deal with it.

The shitty future of no-fun noiseless econobox driving. Yay!

 

[ClassyPenguin]

The shitty future of no-fun noiseless econobox driving. Yay!

I don't see that at all. The Model S by all reports have confirmed that it is a great driving car.

And those car didn't make it because they're featured in the Best Driving Car shootout; completely different than Car of the Year.

 

[Duracelllll]

Didn't see this mentioned elsewhere, but apparently front one of the comments, this is the first time in 64 years all 11 judges voted for the same car. The previous highest was 9 out of 11.

 

[Duracelllll]

The shitty future of no-fun noiseless econobox driving. Yay!

It goes 12.4 down the quarter and handles very well...

 

[dimb]

This is what I see on the Tesla Model S site.

http://i.imgur.com/YCOnH.jpg

just 0-60 times, but no other drivetrain figures for the non 85kwh models

Jesus Christ these things are slow.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Jesus Christ these things are slow.

Wut. Even 6.5 is relatively brisk for a sedan and that's for the "low power" one.

 

[maliedoo]

You can check the Tesla Model S at the Tesla Showroom at the Washington Square Mall in Tigard, OR. Im sure they have them in other cities.... It's awesome.

some photos when me and my daughter checked one out.

 

[Zaptruder]

Jesus Christ these things are slow.

They're not full blown sports cars. They're luxury performance vehicles.

This comment is as dumb as looking at stat-lines for the BMW 3/5 series and complaining about their performance.

The top model S for what its worth, out performs an M5 in all performance areas except for top speed.

 

[dimb]

Wut. Even 6.5 is relatively brisk for a sedan.

For the price? I dunno.

 

[Enron]

I don't see that at all. The Model S by all reports have confirmed that it is a great driving car.

Except he was talking about EVs as a whole, and my comment was about EVs as a whole

 

[Enron]

The top model S for what its worth, out performs an M5 in all performance areas except for top speed.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL