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[Amir0x]

Fair enough, you've defended your point well. My issue is that the structure seems really screwed up to me in that because the levels are so short there ends up being no real penalty for death. You waste a few seconds to half a minute at most. As the game went along my experience changed in that instead of trying to plan my approach or show caution or make any sort of risk assessment, I'd just brute-force my way through each subsequent level. If I died? Who cares, I would just get back to that point 10 seconds later and maybe get further. Or maybe not, like I said, it doesn't matter. Then eventually I'd beat the level and move on to the next one having no reason whatsoever to replay the level I just beat save for any warp zones or bandages I missed, which are an extra trip or two at most.

In the end, I just got bored because I never felt I was really playing skillfully or was ever given a reason to. I just kept losing and losing until I suddenly didn't, and I can't enjoy games that way.

To be fair, though, isn't the death penalty in games close to non-existent anyway these days? Frankly I don't even know why games have 'lives'

I think by design, due to how many approached the challenge, it made sense to allow the player to immediately return to the fray. I think it would have really become frustrating if, say, you had to leave the level and re-load every time you die (or every time you lost your lives, say).

Edit: Actually it was frustrating enough to have to go back three levels when you used up your lives in the secret worlds..

 

[Trojita]

Are people calling this the best launch game of possibly all time forgetting about the amazing Gameboy Advance lineup?

Even disregarding Super Mario Bros II there was Castlevania Circle of the Moon and Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2.

 

[Currygan]

game is scoring as expected. I just can't wait anymore. Not even the most amazing Crashmo is able to cure me from the wiiu disease


three sodding weeks

Are people calling this the best launch game of possibly all time forgetting about the amazing Gameboy Advance lineup?

i had SMW at launch, which is unbeatable

 

[Trojita]

i had SMW at launch, which is unbeatable

Well yeah Duh. Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. are pretty close as well.

 

[Amir0x]

i had SMW at launch, which is unbeatable

I'll never forget the first time I experienced SMW at the famous Toys R' Us in New York City. Just throngs of kids lining up around the corner to get a shot. And then I tried it, after waiting over an hour, and it turned my world upside down. I think at this point the effect was even more impressive than Super Mario 64 was for me

Edit: Thanks for the engaging discussion guys. I have to go out now. I appreciate the back and forth, learned a lot

 

[Trojita]

I'll never forget the first time I experienced SMW at the famous Toys R' Us in New York City. Just throngs of kids lining up around the corner to get a shot. And then I tried it, after waiting over an hour, and it turned my world upside down. I think at this point the effect was even more impressive than Super Mario 64 was for me

I played Super Mario World at the local Blockbuster for the first time.

I played Sonic Adventure for the first time at an Orthodontist.

Both were mind blowing.

 

[WrenchNinja]

The nostalgia goggles make for great hyperbole.

Long running series, nostalgia goggles gets brought up to downplay other's opinions. Yup, like clockwork.

 

[jman2050]

To be fair, though, isn't the death penalty in games close to non-existent anyway these days? Frankly I don't even know why games have 'lives'

The usage of lives would obviously depend on the game in question (Contra and Mega Man without lives/continues are worthless, for example), but to speak in a general sense, the most effective penalty for death is time. It saddens me when people complain that death is inconvenient. Yes Sherlock, that's the entire point. You can't just be given a reason to win, you also have to be given a reason not to lose. You need both components for an effective challenge in my eyes.

I think by design, due to how many approached the challenge, it made sense to allow the player to immediately return to the fray. I think it would have really become frustrating if, say, you had to leave the level and re-load every time you die (or every time you lost your lives, say).

Edit: Actually it was frustrating enough to have to go back three levels when you used up your lives in the secret worlds..

It's funny because, now that you mention it, I recall being a lot more invested in those secret worlds for that very reason. I couldn't just plow my way through them because dying meant I lost actual progress (shock) so I actually had to try and play skillfully for once.

 

[Amir0x]

Last comment before I'm out the door for real, just wanted to say I agree with you re: death penalty. I absolutely believe real harsh death penalties in games teaches players to utilize their skills more effectively and learn from past mistakes. I just happen to think Super Meat Boy was probably an exception to that rule; death was so frequent that it would have inhibited a lot of enjoyment for some people. And since levels were often not much larger than a single screen, it didn't make sense to kick you out of levels imo.

Anyway, awesome discussion guys! Ttyl

 

[shouamabane]

Thank God there's no Propeller Suit. That was the worst idea ever in a Mario game.

 

[UncleSporky]

Last comment before I'm out the door for real, just wanted to say I agree with you re: death penalty. I absolutely believe real harsh death penalties in games teaches players to utilize their skills more effectively and learn from past mistakes.

Not the right thread, but I definitely think this is going to be one of ZombiU's strongest points. Feels like a storm is brewing for Sunday reviews...

 

[RagnarokX]

Thank God there's no Propeller Suit. That was the worst idea ever in a Mario game.

But the squirrel suit is almost the same thing...

 

[Medalion]

IGN - 9.1
Kotaku - Yes
Polygon - 8.5
Destructoid - 8.5
Venturebeat - 83/100
Joystiq - 4.5/5
1Up - B+

Gameinformer -



I'll do my best to update this! Someone asked for one in the OT

Pretty respectable scores for a growing stale franchise, I guess that new HD paint makes it somehow better

 

[Socreges]

I'm not being self-righteous! And if I am to your mind, you don't then think it's "self-righteous" to dismiss someone's point as 'really now?' Come on.
If I had to list some, it'd be

1. Super Meat Boy
2. VVVVVV
3. Rayman Origins
4. Wario: Shake It (this one will probably be controversial to some; I'd say the approach to challenges and visual quality slightly put it over NSMB titles)
5. And Yet It Moves
6. Fez

There are actually a lot more that I'd add to the list going down my purchases now, but I think this is a good start. It really is not at all controversial to say many games are better than where the 2D NSMB titles have gone: bolder approaches to visuals, music, even level design. It is no where near impossible to surpass anymore.

Makes more sense now. I expected all the retro platformers, but didn't think anyone would put Wario over NSMBW/2 or include games like AYIM. Don't get me wrong, AYIM is great, but it doesn't really "do things quite a bit better" since the "things" that it does are completely different from actual platformers.

 

[shouamabane]

But the squirrel suit is almost the same thing...

Really? It didn't look nearly as broken in the videos I've seen. I'm alright with more freedom of movement, but the Propeller Suit was ridiculous.

 

[zroid]

Whaaat, I loved the propeller suit :\

One of the most fun power-ups in years. Until Gold Mario showed up, anyway.

 

[Oblivion]

Boost in Show.

Ugh. Really guys? Really?

 

[Teknoman]

Pretty respectable scores for a growing stale franchise, I guess that new HD paint makes it somehow better

Watching the IGN review footage, it looks pretty damn fun and challenging. I am kinda disappointed that there doesnt seem to be many new additions to the soundtrack aside from a new main theme.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

New Super Mario 2 seems a bit pointless now. Guess Nintendo was saving all their creativity for this one.

And judging by the demo video at stores, is the music orchestrated?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Sonic games better than Mario? Come on now. I haven't played Sonic Colors, but every other Sonic game I've played since the old days has been worse than even the NSMB games.

Genesis Sonic is untouchable. Proven fact.

 

[DjRoomba]

Pretty respectable scores for a growing stale franchise, I guess that new HD paint makes it somehow better

Calling it stale is unfair man, you wouldn't be saying that if it wasn't mario. Remember, this will be some people's first nsmb game and even first mario game. If you think it looks toosimilar to something you've played before you don't have to buy it you know

 

[steveovig]

I'm kinda disappointed none of the reviews mentioned accomplishments, especially after the NCL FAQ thingy.

 

[pakkit]

Calling it stale is unfair man, you wouldn't be saying that if it wasn't mario. Remember, this will be some people's first nsmb game and even first mario game. If you think it looks toosimilar to something you've played before you don't have to buy it you know

This is sharp sarcastic wit, ala Reggie Watts, right?

 

[Oblivion]

I wouldn't have given it a score as low as Feep did, but he, along with IGN, were the only people to (rightfully) criticize NSMBU's graphics and music. So there's that, I guess.

 

[Richie]

I'm kinda disappointed none of the reviews mentioned accomplishments, especially after the NCL FAQ thingy.

That's an online aspect of the game, and almost everyone reviewed NSMBU before Nintendo opened online play for them. Wait for Gameinformers' review.

 

[steveovig]

That's an online aspect of the game, and almost everyone reviewed NSMBU before Nintendo opened online play for them. Wait for Gameinformers' review.

I wasn't aware it was an online thing though. It doesn't make sense to me why they weren't in the retail copies that were reviewed and that they'd be in the Miiverse or something. How would you unlock them through online stuff? Hopefully I'm wrong on that.

 

[matthwq]

I'm super excited, and I can't wait to play it, but I sort of wish I didn't just finish the hell out of New Super Mario Bros 2 like a month or two ago. Too much NSMB in such a short time span.

 

[Richie]

I wasn't aware it was an online thing though. It doesn't make sense to me why they weren't in the retail copies that were reviewed and that they'd be in the Miiverse or something. How would you unlock them through online stuff? Hopefully I'm wrong on that.

Frankly, it's all guessing on my part, but seems like the "achievements" we first saw back at E3 (Remember the yellow globe with "Cleared under 100 seconds"?) will be a Miiverse specific feature, whereas in addition to that there are in-game medals (for challenges and such). Have to admit I spoke without knowing if it was a fact, but it -would- make sense out of the complete silence regarding "accomplishments" in reviews.

 

[zoukka]

And judging by the demo video at stores, is the music orchestrated?

I highly doubt sans a song or two.

 

[ArynCrinn]

Challenge?

In Super Meat Boy?

That's hilarious.

Not that Mario games haven't had the problem of being too forgiving lately, mind you.

You've obviously never tried out a few of the top speed strats. It's not even "challenging" or "Nintendo hard" it's suicide-inducing and mental patience rape of the highest order. Not surprising many people don't understand this, most gamers simply lack the physical and psychological skill for it. The real Super Meat Boy is for the courageous and uncompromising, only. Resting on 100% and A+'s are for pussies.

But anyway, two entirely different games and experiences Meat Boy and Mario, and I prefer that. Although there's a LOT of tips Mario could learn, mainly in not being so uninspired and cookie cutter. We really just need a smaller niche Mario game that looks at other platformers and harkens back to the SMB2 Jap template. Let Nintendo milk the NSMB cow and still give a hungry younger team this type of project and enforce the polish.

Great reviews though, I expected worse for these reasons. Still buying Day 1.

 

[imjust1n]

Metacritic is at 84/100 that's upper average. Nintendoland kinda makes me sad at 77/100

Well good thing it comes with the system at least you get a game and more storage what really made me hop to the deluxe is that discount of digital games.

I reallllly hope zombiu does good.

 

[AniHawk]

How is Super Meat Boy anything but challenging? It is the very definition of challenging.

back in my day, we didn't have fancy save features or infinite lives. we would lose all 10 hours of progress when we got a game over and WE LIKED IT!

 

[Socreges]

Anyone who says Super Meat Boy isn't challenging is just putting up a front. If SMB isn't challenging, then no game is.

Although there's a LOT of tips Mario could learn, mainly in not being so uninspired and cookie cutter.

I'm not one to jump to the defense of NSMB, but I don't think the team needs to "learn" to be inspired. When they do make challenging levels, and don't worry about pleasing the novice gamer, the level design is usually pretty unique and inspired. They just need to cut the chains of Safe Nintendo and they're capable of a lot, I'd say.

 

[jlscool]

There's a lot of people who have played a Mario game before and still die on the first Goomba in World 1-1

Speaking of dying on the first goomba in the first level of the first world, what if when we get our Wii U systems and first start to play New Super Mario Bros U, we all do this (kill ourselves on the first creature in the first level) over and over again until it asks for a miiverse comment.

We can put all kinds of funny comments in there like: No, I AM a better player then Cammy Dunaway!

 

[Nicktals]

You've obviously never tried out a few of the top speed strats. It's not even "challenging" or "Nintendo hard" it's suicide-inducing and mental patience rape of the highest order. Not surprising many people don't understand this, most gamers simply lack the physical and psychological skill for it. The real Super Meat Boy is for the courageous and uncompromising, only. Resting on 100% and A+'s are for pussies.

Mario 64...you want to know pain? Challenge? Talk to Siglemic. Lol ofc top speed in any game is suicide inducing...becauseby definition it requires perfect input

 

[ArynCrinn]

back in my day, we didn't have fancy save features or infinite lives. we would lose all 10 hours of progress when we got a game over and WE LIKED IT!

It's a interesting situation with Meat Boy though. The infinite lives and quick restarts really feed the speedrun nature of it, where the whole purpose is to build up your muscle memory run after run to accomplish things literally impossible with a time or life limit (bandage warp zones are often designed differently). So you'll just be grinding a level to perfect a certain route building up your muscle memory, doing things completely impossible with a life limit in sequence (like frame jumps, air corrections and tile perfect landings) and hopefully making progress before your mind cracks and you give up. The best moments in Meat Boy are watching the replay as you sit in the chair drooling admiring a sub 5 second time of 4-17, not even thinking just reacting repetitively, not really able to explain what happened.

Totally different experience from Mario. But if Meat Boy had a life limit it would ruin the game.

Mario 64...you want to know pain? Challenge? Talk to Siglemic. Lol ofc top speed in any game is suicide inducing...becauseby definition it requires perfect input

This is true, but nothing quite matches the semi-stroke you endure watching a flawless run be goofed up by a pixel difference or .01 input mistake. Only to have it happen again, and again, and again, as the game casually tosses you back into the mix every time you fail. But the pure speed and frame perfect nature to some of the runs really put SMB in a league of it's own, only really matched by shmups or certain fighters.

 

[Nibel]

Super Meat Boy is challenging - even for experienced gamers

 

[Anth0ny]

Mario 64...you want to know pain? Challenge? Talk to Siglemic. Lol ofc top speed in any game is suicide inducing...becauseby definition it requires perfect input

That's what I'm talking about. Mario 64 is best Mario.

SO DEEP.

 

[AzaK]

Metacritic is at 84/100 that's upper average. Nintendoland kinda makes me sad at 77/100

Well good thing it comes with the system at least you get a game and more storage what really made me hop to the deluxe is that discount of digital games.

I reallllly hope zombiu does good.

Man 84 just seems low. Or should I say, low compared to expectations for a Mario game.

 

[Feep]

Yo! Back from wherever.

For instance, to mention online in a 2D platformer as an expectation despite zero 2D platformers having online is ridiculous, in my opinion

I respectfully disagree. Even leaderboards and ghosts would have been great.

Second, stating that the early levels are easy is something that I expect 100% out of all 2D mario games ever, minus the lost levels and is not something I would ever speak of as a demerit.

They are exceedingly dull.

you are very unsurprised to say that HD matters very little for Nintendo. Really? Just say it doesn't add a lot to the experience.

I basically did.

Do you mean it was never worth much of my attention? Because I'd agree... it's a mario title about platforming.

I respectfully disagree. Graphics and art style are very important to the overall experience.

No, I wouldn't be hard pressed at all. Here is a comparison of Wii U vs. Wii.

I respectfully disagree.

"The few changes include the replacement of the propeller suit with the “acorn suit”, functionally similar but offering less vertical lift for the ability to “stick” on walls for a short period of time, new “Nabbit” sequences, in which you chase a thief across a previously traversed level, and a few remixed 1-Up and item challenges…but there simply isn’t enough, at least in this mode." - Did you completely forget about the new world map? Did you forget to mention all those new baby Yoshi's and their abilities? Or how about the ability to play as Miis? Or the Mii-verse integration? Or baby bowser running around randomly? There is nothing else you could think of to put in this section?

None of them were really worth mentioning. The Baby Yoshi's are fairly rare, the World Map is being overrated, and really? The ability to play as Mii's? Come on.

How about differentiating the experience as a whole?

After a bit of research, it doesn't seem like much more will be added than being able to play as Mii's and leaving little notes/doodles around certain levels. I felt comfortable reviewing the game without it.

You saw zero new ideas, you guess? >_>

Not enough for me to care.

Absolutely LOVED the co-op stuff...not many people are talking about it, and that's a shame. Co-op challenges are like crack, as long as you like the person you're playing with.

Oh, and to the dude who asked, yeah, the half-second freeze for all players is still active when one player takes damage. Pretty annoying.

 

[Nicktals]

Supet meat boy is rockband with songs consisting of 15 second drum solos

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

iGNs video footage looks great. Game definitely looks fun as fuck. Easy buy for when I eventually get a wiiU.

 

[madmackem]

You are easily pleased. That hardly looks better than the Wii.

It looks way better, just watch the video review from ign they flip between the wii game and this its not even close.

 

[Margalis]

I respectfully disagree.

You have some sort of severe vision problem then.

This is not really a matter of opinion. 720p and 480p are objectively very different, before you even get into stuff like better animations, more rich backgrounds and foregrounds, etc.

It's one thing to say that increasing the fidelity doesn't change the overall experience much, but to say that you can't tell the difference between the Wii version and Wii U version is either trolling or you literally have damage to your optic nerve and should see a doctor immediately.

For years people have complained about how Wii games are so low res they make eyes bleed. To now say that the difference between SD and HD is imperceptible is inane. To me this reads like sour grapes from people who bashed Nintendo games for being low res. Now that they are high res suddenly being high res mysteriously isn't any better at all than being low res, despite what the laws of physics might lead you to believe.

 

[Michan]

Bolded are things NSMBWii already did. You can kinda add Baby Yoshi's, too, since they are functionally the same as the special blocks in NSMBWii like the light block and propeller block. And although the world maps did not all connect into a super world map, the individual world maps were more like SMW than SMB3. People really underappreciate that game.

I'm not saying that most of those things weren't in NSMBWii, or that it wasn't a brilliant game. Because they were, and it was. I ended up buying it three times (one in Canada, one in the UK, and then the red Wii), actually.

This one just seems a little closer to SMW than NSMBWii did (which already felt an awful lot like SMW).

 

[Feep]

You have some sort of severe vision problem then.

This is not really a matter of opinion. 720p and 480p are objectively very different, before you even get into stuff like better animations, more rich backgrounds and foregrounds, etc.

It's one thing to say that increasing the fidelity doesn't change the overall experience much, but to say that you can't tell the difference between the Wii version and Wii U version is either trolling or you literally have damage to your optic nerve and should see a doctor immediately.

For years people have complained about how Wii games are so low res they make eyes bleed. To now say that the difference between SD and HD is imperceptible is inane.

Calm down, kitty cat. Here's the quote:

The primary single player experience is nearly identical to previous entries in the series. The difficulty appears relatively consistent with New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and while it takes certain cues from Super Mario World (the return of the seven Koopalings, for example), you’d be hard pressed to differentiate NSMBU from its console predecessor without counting pixels.

I clearly mentioned the fact that yes, there are many more pixels now, and that's nice. But the visual style and presentation of the game are nearly absolutely identical, and from context, I was clearly referring to more than graphics anyway.

 

[Darkflight]

EDGE gave it an 8 - http://bit.ly/SQIB72

 

[Margalis]

Calm down, kitty cat. Here's the quote:

That's not the quote I was responding to.

The quote I responded to the was quote I, you know, quoted. I'm all for subjective opinions but after years and years of bemoaning SD output on the Wii to call HD imperceptible without "counting pixels" is just idiotic. And if you need to count pixels to tell the difference between SD and HD output you seriously do have vision problems.

 

[Feep]

That's not the quote I was responding to.

The quote I responded to the was quote I, you know, quoted.

He said he disagreed with that direct quote and posted two images. I said I disagreed with that statement (of him disagreeing).

Semantics.

Edit: Let's just agree to disagree, yeah? I'll be idiotic and blind, and you win.

 

[mrklaw]

This remains my complaint with all the NSMB games. None of them even get remotely particularly creative until the last third of the product, and most don't even bother to attempt challenge until the last world or two. Sad to see the trend continuing.

At least with Super Mario Galaxy the variety was so superlative that it made up for the oft times limited challenge.

It is an issue with recent NSMB games (and even 3D land to a degree), but there is usually plenty of challenge later on, and the easier levels you'll breeze through anyway, so they aren't a big barrier.

This outing sounds like it has much more in the way of core gamer appeal. Boost rush sounds good, the challenges look great, and that 'nabbit' sounds a bit like shadow mario which injects pace into a level, changing its feel dramatically.

I'm honestly a bit uncertain what Nintendo could have done differently while still calling it NSMB. If people didn't want NSMB, that's another matter, but you can't review it wishing it was a different game - it is what it is