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[Margalis]

He said he disagreed with that direct quote and posted two images. I said I disagreed with that statement (of him disagreeing).

Yeah sorry that makes no sense. You can't disagree that someone disagrees with you when you are in the middle of arguing with them precisely because they do disagree.

Try again.

Edit: Not to beat up on you too much but the dismissive attitude of "it has more pixels and that's nice I guess" is just incredibly silly in the context of video game press rhetoric of the last half-decade or so.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Dat Van Gogh stage <3

 

[guek]

He said he disagreed with that direct quote and posted two images. I said I disagreed with that statement (of him disagreeing).

Semantics.

Edit: Let's just agree to disagree, yeah? I'll be idiotic and blind, and you win.

Hey serious question here. Not trying to be inflammatory, but as a professional reviewer, does it ever bother you if the majority of other reviews disagree with your assessment? Is your philosophy that it doesn't matter, that your review is just one man's opinion and not meant to be an objective measure of quality? Or when this happens, are you just convinced that most everyone else is wrong and you're right? Do you ever doubt yourself as a reviewer when this happens?

I'm not trying to call you out or anything like that or pick a fight, I'm genuinely curious about how reviewers react to that kind of situation.

 

[Fabrik]

This game is gonna be fun. This thread is boring.

 

[Feep]

Hey serious question here. Not trying to be inflammatory, but as a professional reviewer, does it ever bother you if the majority of other reviews disagree with your assessment? Is your philosophy that it doesn't matter, that your review is just one man's opinion and not meant to be an objective measure of quality? Or when this happens, are you just convinced that most everyone else is wrong and you're right? Do you ever doubt yourself as a reviewer when this happens?

I'm not trying to call you out or anything like that or pick a fight, I'm genuinely curious about how reviewers react to that kind of situation.

Viewing people as "wrong" and right" is the crux of the problem, isn't it? I am not right, they are not wrong. This is how I view the game. I gave this title, which is a good one, what I believe to be a fair score.

It's a shame that people view me as "anti-Nintendo", which couldn't be farther from the truth. I got put on this game and Skyward Sword because I was the biggest Nintendo fan in the organization, so far as I could tell (whether this raises another ethical concern is probably good enough for another thread). I would have given Galaxy 1 and Galaxy 2 perfect scores, and SM3DL a 4.5/5, though I wasn't able to review them. But I have to be honest with what I think about these games, especially compared relatively to the peak of their respective genres.

 

[Neff]

Damn.

Seeing my once favorite platforming series reach the heights it did with yoshi's island, only to slowly slide into complacency and even at times, mediocrity, kills me.

I mean, with the kind of horsepower at their disposal, THIS is what we get? I honestly find Mario World and the previously mentioned Yoshi's Island, to be more visually and auditorily engaging.

At least there's still the 3D iterations to look forward to.

NSMB is its own series, and stands apart from the core Mario games, much like Wario does.

NSMB trades heavily on nostalgia, building entire games around the evocative images of Mario headbutting blocks, jumping across chasms, and collecting coins. Conceptually speaking, this is really all you do in the NSMB series. It utterly lacks sophistication and creativity, making up for it with cheap, familiar, disposable, quick-fix satisfaction. It's fast food Mario.

On the other hand you have Super Mario Galaxy and SMB3DL, which are both packed with new ideas and new features, consistently surprising you with something fresh. This is more in line with Mario's traditional philosophy, and is what put the series at the top.

The latter example is the type of game most people are waiting for, and it's inevitable that it'll turn up. Debuting a new console with NSMB is a great business move since the game costs relatively little money, time and talent to create, and will generate massive interest. Even as someone who was near-instantly jaded by NSMB in 2006, the opportunity to snag the new Nintendo console with a new Mario game is hard to pass up.

So yeah, the real HD Mario is coming. Genius takes time. NSMB doesn't.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

What's the number of challenges???

Not needing a specific answer but is it a "shitload", "enough", a "decent amount" or "wish there were more"???

 

[Feep]

What's the number of challenges???

Not needing a specific answer but is it a "shitload", "enough", a "decent amount" or "wish there were more"???

I don't think I even unlocked them all. If it's not a "shitload", it's pretty close.

 

[mrklaw]

Viewing people as "wrong" and right" is the crux of the problem, isn't it? I am not right, they are not wrong. This is how I view the game. I gave this title, which is a good one, what I believe to be a fair score.

It's a shame that people view me as "anti-Nintendo", which couldn't be farther from the truth. I got put on this game and Skyward Sword because I was the biggest Nintendo fan in the organization, so far as I could tell (whether this raises another ethical concern is probably good enough for another thread). I would have given Galaxy 1 and Galaxy 2 perfect scores, and SM3DL a 4.5/5, though I wasn't able to review them. But I have to be honest with what I think about these games, especially compared relatively to the peak of their respective genres.

I don't understand the negativity towards your review. Nobody reads one review and decides whether to buy a game or not. Do they? They already know if they're interested and bed tipping over the edge, or hesitant and want to know about any issues etc. my primary concern going into this game was it being a warmed over rehash, like NSMB2 felt

I read a bunch of reviews, they reassured me that its not as bad as NSMB2, and that the challenge mode looks much more interesting than collecting a million coins (ugh). I read your review and saw your comments about online and the graphics but I filtered those out because I don't care about online and the graphics were never something I was worried about.

 

[Gummb]

Yo! Back from wherever.


I respectfully disagree. Even leaderboards and ghosts would have been great.


They are exceedingly dull.


I basically did.


I respectfully disagree. Graphics and art style are very important to the overall experience.


I respectfully disagree.


None of them were really worth mentioning. The Baby Yoshi's are fairly rare, the World Map is being overrated, and really? The ability to play as Mii's? Come on.


After a bit of research, it doesn't seem like much more will be added than being able to play as Mii's and leaving little notes/doodles around certain levels. I felt comfortable reviewing the game without it.


Not enough for me to care.

Absolutely LOVED the co-op stuff...not many people are talking about it, and that's a shame. Co-op challenges are like crack, as long as you like the person you're playing with.

Oh, and to the dude who asked, yeah, the half-second freeze for all players is still active when one player takes damage. Pretty annoying.

Christ. I'm sorry feep, but if you can call every 2D Mario game "exceedingly dull" (which you did in the context of my quote), get the hell away from reviewing Mario games that are genuinely anticipated by fans of the series and those newcomers who want to give it a try.

Reading your "eh, who really cares about - mii's, new world map, baby yoshis, hd, better visuals, etc. - analysis is not only jarring but borderline unprofessional IMO. I care. And the fact that these are either not mentioned or articulated as meaningless is unfortunate. I know these are your opinions, and in that sense, it's helpful to read it. Beyond that, the review is sorely lacking.

 

[Margalis]

My problem is specifically with the notion that the Wii U version looks on a technical level basically indistinguishable from the Wii version. This is something that comes up a lot and I feel like it's people giving in to the natural compulsion to troll a little. If you play the game for just 2 seconds the graphical improvements are obvious, not just from resolution but from things like animation fidelity as well.

There are a fair number of people who are using "looks like a Wii game" when that's just not true. (And yes, I have played NSMBWU myself at E3 and I said the same thing then.)

The most charitable interpretation is that people have just forgotten how NSMBW actually looked.

I don't have any problem with the idea that increasing res doesn't magically make a game better, I wholeheartedly agree with that.

 

[Feep]

Christ. I'm sorry feep, but if you can call every Mario game "exceedingly dull" (which you did in the context of my quote), get the hell away from reviewing Mario games that are genuinely anticipated by fans of the series and those newcomers who want to give it a try.

Reading your "eh, who really cares about - mii's, new world map, baby yoshis, hd, better visuals, etc. - analysis is not only jarring but borderline unprofessional IMO. I care. And the fact that these are either not mentioned or articulated as meaningless is unfortunate. I know these are your opinions, and in that sense, it's helpful to read it. Beyond that, the review is sorely lacking.

I meant the beginning worlds are exceedingly dull, if that wasn't clear.

Whatever. Believe what you want.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Christ. I'm sorry feep, but if you can call every 2D Mario game "exceedingly dull" (which you did in the context of my quote)

Have you even been reading the posts where he said he was a Mario fan?

You don't get to make up what he meant just because it fits into how you can skew his words.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

There are a fair number of people who are using "looks like a Wii game" when that's just not true. (And yes, I have played NSMBWU myself at E3 and I said the same thing then.)

Just ignore them, they usually have agendas or bad memories.

I mean, it happens all the time.

OMG that game looks like an N64 game!!!!!!!!!!!!

~someone posts screenshots of an actual N64 game~

Initial poster vanishes unmysteriously.

The game looks technically better and artistically better than any of the New Super Mario Brothers games no doubt but it doesn't knock everyone's socks off.

 

[guek]

Viewing people as "wrong" and right" is the crux of the problem, isn't it? I am not right, they are not wrong. This is how I view the game. I gave this title, which is a good one, what I believe to be a fair score.

It's a shame that people view me as "anti-Nintendo", which couldn't be farther from the truth. I got put on this game and Skyward Sword because I was the biggest Nintendo fan in the organization, so far as I could tell (whether this raises another ethical concern is probably good enough for another thread). I would have given Galaxy 1 and Galaxy 2 perfect scores, and SM3DL a 4.5/5, though I wasn't able to review them. But I have to be honest with what I think about these games, especially compared relatively to the peak of their respective genres.

Mmk. Thanks for the honest answer. I really disagreed with your SS review, but I respect your willingness to talk about it then as you are willing to talk about this review now. Though to be frank, I don't know why you bother since the outcome is pretty predictable.

 

[dwu8991]

Dat Van Gogh stage <3

I'm surprise to so many people know this artist considering there's not much correlation between impressionism and video games ....

 

[KillerTravis]

Leave the guy alone, it's just one mixed review among a ton of positives. We all know the NSMB series' perception is pretty divided even among 2D Mario fans. Personally this seems to be the best 2D Mario game since SMW.

 

[Gummb]

I meant the beginning worlds are exceedingly dull, if that wasn't clear.

Whatever. Believe what you want.

Solid as a rock. Do you write these reviews for yourself?

 

[Winnie the Pimp]

Ok, so if the NSMB series exists outside of the normal 2D Mario games then, here's my question: Are we EVER going to get another 2D Mario game then?

I mean, surely the demand on the market for 2D platformers is as high as ever these days if you look at how well most of them sold (including NSMB ones) or are Nintendo simply content in taking the easy(ier) route?

Then again maybe there are no competent enough teams there that could make one? EAD Tokyo makes the 3D games and all other studios seem to focus on other franchises.

Oh well either way, it could be worse i suppose, either way the NSMB games are still excellent platformers luckily even if they don't scratch our itch for glorious and bold gamedesign like SMW or Yoshi's Island did back in the day.

 

[Gummb]

Have you even been reading the posts where he said he was a Mario fan?

You don't get to make up what he meant just because it fits into how you can skew his words.

I didn't skew his words. He said that every 2D Mario game begins "exceedingly dull" (except for the lost levels which begin more difficult). My original point was the easy difficulty (which feep interprets as dull) was expected in early 2D Mario levels and I couldn't see why it would be a demerit. Feep clearly thinks it is worth a demerit.

I find it jarring to call the beginning worlds of every 2D Mario title "exceedingly dull" (except for the lost levels) because they are easy.

Am I interpreting this correctly feep? If not, please correct me, because I personally don't understand this point.

 

[guek]

Ok, so if the NSMB series exists outside of the normal 2D Mario games then, here's my question: Are we EVER going to get another 2D Mario game then?

In the vein of what 2D mario once was? No, I don't think so. At least not any time within the foreseeable future. 2D is big. 2D is popular. As long as the majority of the reviews accept them as decent games, the mass market is going to eat it up. 2D side scrolling is just too darn friendly and nostalgic. I think nintendo knows they've got a good thing goin with that family based audience, so as great as something like NSMBU might be, it definitely wont be the kind of earth shattering game it could be if nintendo so desired.

Thankfully we have 3D mario for that.

 

[Margalis]

Reading your "eh, who really cares about - mii's, new world map, baby yoshis, hd, better visuals, etc. - analysis is not only jarring but borderline unprofessional IMO. I care. And the fact that these are either not mentioned or articulated as meaningless is unfortunate.

If the reviewer didn't think these add much to the experience they have no obligation to mention them. Reviews these days already read far too much list checklists of basic product features.

Eh, it sort of depends on what you want out of reviews I suppose. A pure buying guide probably should mention nearly every feature, a more reviewer-experience review doesn't need to.

 

[Nibel]

Feep is a game designer

A lot of "could have been" sentences instead of "it is what it is" sentences - which is interesting since he basically writes from a different perspective than many others.

In fact I like the review but hate that website's layout: bright white text on dark backgrounds is just eye cancer for me :lol

 

[spekkeh]

If people didn't want NSMB, that's another matter, but you can't review it wishing it was a different game - it is what it is

Why not, expectation is a huge part of it. People review the Transformer movie based on what it isn't (i.e. smart and creative).

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I didn't skew his words. He said that every 2D Mario game begins "exceedingly dull" (except for the lost levels). My original point was simplicity (which feep interprets as dull) was expected in early 2D Mario levels and I couldn't see why it would be a demerit. Feel clearly thinks it is worth a demerit.

I find it jarring to call the beginning worlds of every 2D Mario title "exceedingly dull" (except for the lost levels).

Am I interpreting this correctly feep?

Not sure about my opinion on them(don't mind them) but even Donkey Kong Country Returns early levels are plain and basic, of course it's how the developers pace the games.

They don't detract from the games for me, I expect them.

No platformer I have ever played has had incredible or totally inspired initial levels.

 

[madmackem]

EDGE gave it an 8 - http://bit.ly/SQIB72

They call it the best 2d mario since the 16bit days, my hype is ready.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

They call it the best 2d mario since the 16bit days, my hype is ready.

Seems the concensus is that it's the best New Super Mario Brothers game and while that may not impress everyone, it impresses me as I liked all of them(especially the Wii and 3DS one).

 

[pakkit]

Leave feep alone!

Yes, the game is higher resolution. No, the art style doesn't have changes that especially highlight or reflect that bump in resolution.

I find it jarring to call the beginning worlds of every 2D Mario title "exceedingly dull" (except for the lost levels) because they are easy.

It's not just that, though. The early worlds are almost always visually dull, and introduce interesting mechanics or challenges at a snail's pace compared to the later levels. Nintendo's design philosophy almost always accommodates the idea that this could be a child's first experience with a videogame. Though I appreciate their attempt to appeal to all, it does have the consequence of superbly boring introductions to most of their games (notable exceptions: Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime, Zelda: Majora's Mask -- essentially their games with the most ambitious design).

 

[Nugg]

God the wait is killing me. Having to wait two whole weeks while a lot of you guys will get this on sunday.

At least my

Spoiler

avatar

is ready.

 

[Feep]

I didn't skew his words. He said that every 2D Mario game begins "exceedingly dull" (except for the lost levels which begin more difficult). My original point was the easy difficulty (which feep interprets as dull) was expected in early 2D Mario levels and I couldn't see why it would be a demerit. Feep clearly thinks it is worth a demerit.

I find it jarring to call the beginning worlds of every 2D Mario title "exceedingly dull" (except for the lost levels) because they are easy.

Am I interpreting this correctly feep? If not, please correct me, because I personally don't understand this point.

I was, once again, referring very specifically to the first few worlds of NSMBU. I'm not saying I want the entire game to be of earth shattering difficulty, but Ami put it best...in a game like Super Mario Galaxy, for instance, whose early galaxies are certainly "easy", it was irrelevant, because the level design was remarkable, inventive, and nearly awe-inspiring. Similarly, if I saw some cool, unique mechanics in these levels (the acorn suit is introduced in the first level, but it holds no truly unique place among Mario power-ups), then it would be fine. But there aren't. Some mushrooms sway, there are some geysers of sand, but we've seen all these before. The third world has a water level where a dragon chases you, which is sort of neat, and from this point forward, the level design begins to get slowly, VERY slowly, more interesting.

I remember distinctly going through a level in the World 2 and suddenly breaking out of a trance as I hit the flagpole. The level was so rote that I had literally forgotten every single thing that had just happened.

 

[Yoshi]

I'm not being self-righteous! And if I am to your mind, you don't then think it's "self-righteous" to dismiss someone's point as 'really now?' Come on.

If I had to list some, it'd be

1. Super Meat Boy
2. VVVVVV
3. Rayman Origins
4. Wario: Shake It (this one will probably be controversial to some; I'd say the approach to challenges and visual quality slightly put it over NSMB titles)
5. And Yet It Moves
6. Fez

Actually I think Wario and Rayman are the least controversal choices (though I disagree on both!) despite VVVVVVV, which I haven't played and can't comment on.

Super Meat Boy is super floaty and challenging in a total unimaginative way. It's just "Many ways to die" and its level design is can only really reach this one goal (being difficult).

And Yet It Moves and Fez barely qualify as platformers (if judged as platformers, both miserably fail for their jumping physics), they definitely are more of puzzle games than platformers, so I don't think they really are comparable.

As for Rayman Legends and Wario - which I thoroughly enjoyed especially for their higher degree of diffculty and their higher speed than the NSMB games - here I think several points still knock them down below NSMB on a purely gameplay-oriented comparison (of course, their style is infinitly better and I can accept that one could value that higher than me, I always solely focus von gameplay and level design when comparing platformers, so keep that in mind):
Starting with Wario:
- The level design is too much depended on the additional missions. Play the game without completing the missions and it feels stale - and also laughably easy.
- the fast-paced areas are sometimes (not too often, but still) unfair in that you can decide on what is being shown on-screen, whether to jump or not to jumo. You have to remember the level and can't without gambling complete every mission on first try.

As for Rayman:
- the controls are less spot-on than for Mario, they are a wee bit slugish
- the levels don't adapt to different playstyles too well. You can feel this especially on multiplayer where the level design often times falls flat a bit
- the levels are often not too well timed for the games time attack missions - which leads to totally unsatisfyingly easy times to beat

The big advantage the NSMB series has over all the other platformers I've played this gen (and I usually play all of them, even the download ones, despite hating downloads) is the highly adaptive level design, best demonstrated by the levels in NSMB Wii and this game's multiplayer aspect. This game plays perfectly well wether you play solo, two player, three player or four player. You can rush through the levels using the highly dynamic platforming system or look for all the secrets for additional platforming challenges. It's less easily seen in NSMB2, but if you play the coin rush mode you really learn to adore the flexible level design that adapts perfectly to speed based, exploration based, or pure platforming oriented play.

There indeed is one thing all the NSMB games are lacking regarding gameplay and that's challenge. But other than that there's little room for improvement. As I said this is strictly speaking of gameplay, music, graphical style and visual variety are not being taken into consideration here. Regarding 2D platformers I'd still rank the NSMB series absolutely at the top of this generation. By the way if it's challenge you're looking for in a platformer and if you like Mario's base gameplay, maybe take a look at Yoshi's Island DS. It has awful music and starts slow, but it gets really challenging .

 

[madmackem]

Seems the concensus is that it's the best New Super Mario Brothers game and while that may not impress everyone, it impresses me as I liked all of them(especially the Wii and 3DS one).

Yeah i the only one i played was the wii one due to not having the ninty platforms at the time and that one was fantastic so more of the same/better and in hd yes please.

 

[MaxwellGT2000]

IGN has been racking it up on terrible Wii U reviews already, this one is no different, I honestly don't get how anyone becomes a critic of a field without understanding design philosophy it's practically an essential. I haven't read too far into the others yet mostly just looking for video reviews tonight being pressed for time during this busy weekend.

 

[Gummb]

If the reviewer didn't think these add much to the experience they have no obligation to mention them. Reviews these days already read far too much list checklists of basic product features.

Eh, it sort of depends on what you want out of reviews I suppose. A pure buying guide probably should mention nearly every feature, a more reviewer-experience review doesn't need to.

I suppose I expect an analysis of how a game plays. Stating that there's not much different when I have been following the game since it was announced and have been anticipating how the world map is or how the yoshis played out being able to carry them across levels or whether or not miiverse really does add to the experience (something I think Nintendo should have addressed by giving press the update) is not helpful. Feep's reductionist design of this review is disappointing.

There's absolutely no feeling of intrigue from his review and reads like he was almost forced to play through yet another Mario game, minus the challenges and co-op, which he enjoyed.

 

[pakkit]

There's absolutely no feeling of intrigue from his review and reads like he was almost forced to play through yet another Mario game, minus the challenges and co-op, which he enjoyed.

Just to be clear - are you bemoaning his estrangement from pre-release hype?

 

[dimb]

No platformer I have ever played has had incredible or totally inspired initial levels.

First world of DKC2 has these:
Lockjaw's Locker
Topsail Trouble

 

[Gummb]

I was, once again, referring very specifically to the first few worlds of NSMBU. I'm not saying I want the entire game to be of earth shattering difficulty, but Ami put it best...in a game like Super Mario Galaxy, for instance, whose early galaxies are certainly "easy", it was irrelevant, because the level design was remarkable, inventive, and nearly awe-inspiring. Similarly, if I saw some cool, unique mechanics in these levels (the acorn suit is introduced in the first level, but it holds no truly unique place among Mario power-ups), then it would be fine. But there aren't. Some mushrooms sway, there are some geysers of sand, but we've seen all these before. The third world has a water level where a dragon chases you, which is sort of neat, and from this point forward, the level design begins to get slowly, VERY slowly, more interesting.

I remember distinctly going through a level in the World 2 and suddenly breaking out of a trance as I hit the flagpole. The level was so rote that I had literally forgotten every single thing that had just happened.

Why wasn't this in your review? It's seriously way more useful, especially that last sentence, if true. Perhaps you should go back and spend more time in each level. From what I've read in other reviews, there is more to explore in each level than just the main track. The idea that you played a level and immediately forgot it is disturbing, especially If you are charged with reviewing it. XD

Also, I'm sorry I misinterpreted you. I would like to know what you think about other 2D Mario games when going back to play them again. I'm almost certain you will now find them all to be dull (minus perhaps yoshi's island). Unless, of course, nostalgia doesn't grip you firmly.

 

[Gummb]

Just to be clear - are you bemoaning his estrangement from pre-release hype?

No, simply stating that he doesn't seem at all interested in what the game does offer and is more interested in just calling it "more of the same" while using generalities to describe it (and by "it" I am specifically referring to his analysis of the single player adventure).

 

[mrklaw]

I was, once again, referring very specifically to the first few worlds of NSMBU. I'm not saying I want the entire game to be of earth shattering difficulty, but Ami put it best...in a game like Super Mario Galaxy, for instance, whose early galaxies are certainly "easy", it was irrelevant, because the level design was remarkable, inventive, and nearly awe-inspiring. Similarly, if I saw some cool, unique mechanics in these levels (the acorn suit is introduced in the first level, but it holds no truly unique place among Mario power-ups), then it would be fine. But there aren't. Some mushrooms sway, there are some geysers of sand, but we've seen all these before. The third world has a water level where a dragon chases you, which is sort of neat, and from this point forward, the level design begins to get slowly, VERY slowly, more interesting.

I remember distinctly going through a level in the World 2 and suddenly breaking out of a trance as I hit the flagpole. The level was so rote that I had literally forgotten every single thing that had just happened.

I think this is fair comment and good criticism, and similar to Amir0x's comments. I don't have too much of a problem just sprinting through those early levels, but it does seem like there could be a better way to deal with people that aren't familiar with mario.

I do wonder just how easy they are - if you're a veteran of many mario games then you'll be tuned in to the way mario moves and jumps, but will someone that is a competent gamer find some challenge in the early levels if this is the first mario game they play?

and people are born all the time, each mario game (that might not be new to you) will be new to a reasonably sized portion of the audience.

 

[Feep]

Why wasn't this in your review? It's seriously way more useful, especially that last sentence, if true. Perhaps you should go back and spend more time in each level. From what I've read in other reviews, there is more to explore in each level than just the main track. The idea that you played a level and immediately forgot it is disturbing, especially If you are charged with reviewing it. XD

Also, I'm sorry I misinterpreted you. I would like to know what you think about other 2D Mario games when going back to play them again. I'm almost certain you will now find them all to be dull (minus perhaps yoshi's island). Unless, of course, nostalgia doesn't grip you firmly.

Trancing out is not representative of what players will do, I think. While it tells me something about the level, the vast majority of people won't be able to simply zone out...I just happen to be very, very good at 2-D platformers.

You are correct with Yoshi's Island, which I consider to be the best 2-D platformer of all time. SMW holds up for a few reasons that would take essays to describe, but a short list includes a nearly perfect difficulty curve, light puzzle mechanics that were incredibly well implemented via secret exits and ghost houses, and some fantastic presentation.

I believe Mario 3 to be a bit overrated, and, well, it's hard to comment on the original SMB.

 

[Barbacoatl]

It's a shame what graphics whoring and scripted movie-games have done to games reviews. This is why cinema critics will always be more respected. You won't see them prioritize a movie's oh so sweet cgi over the rest of its elements. If the script, directing and acting sucks, no vfx studio in California will save it.

The same applies here, gameplay will always be king, graphics should be an integral part of the experience, not the main focus. But reviewers are so keen to compare all games to the latest 300 million budget movie-game, that they relegate the gameplay experience to a sad spot in the back corner. What's worse, I'm willing to bet most of the critics of 'style' couldn't draw a butt-penis themselves. But because they played many movie-games, now they're art directors.

Luckily most people just want to have fun playing a game, not run a silly feature checklist against games that have nothing to do with it.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

Are the nameless blue and yellow toads that no one gives a crap about still the other two characters? Instead of Peach, Toad, Wario, or anyone in the Mario series with a shred of personality or even likeability? No? Not buying it, then. The Pope could rate it 10/10 and I wouldn't give it a second look. I want a new Mario game, not NSMB Wii with remixed levels.

 

[Feep]

It's a shame what graphics whoring and scripted movie-games have done to games reviews. This is why cinema critics will always be more respected. You won't see them prioritize a movie's oh so sweet cgi over the rest of its elements. If the script, directing and acting sucks, no vfx studio in California will save it.

; )

 

[MaxwellGT2000]

Yeesh just read some of that crap on the G4 review, what is this IGN NSMB Wii review 2012 edition? Since when do we demerit a game based on what isn't there instead of what is? Not talking about essentials here but extras like online, it's never been an essential, same with HD visuals, I'm certain millions are crying themselves to sleep at night from the jaggies on Super Mario Galaxy or that Angry Birds didn't push any of the dozens of platforms it was on

Also knocking early stage difficulty... while games like SMG got crazy high scores while being both linear and a push over from start to finish with very few levels being the exception.

Call me crazy but it's that sort of inability to know your audience nor understand that a package is just that and why G4 circled the drain before the TechTV aquisition and is currently doing so. Games should be based on what they are not what they are not, you know making sure the gameplay works well, if going for fun, make sure it's fun, if it's trying to be immersive, like ICO, make sure the gameplay is like that, the two never cross just like concepts from one package should not seep into judgement of another package.

Just because LBP has online play for example does not mean New Super Mario Bros should have online, little big planet's design philosophy works with online, it's a slower paced, less precise platforming experience that builds upon puzzles and with co-op you can build even more elaborate puzzles, while Mario on the other hand is a fast, frantic, and precise experience at it's core, multiplayer has to be adapted to fit this philosophy, thus you have bubbles to save you and the ability to screw over other players for fun, because the multiplayer is there for an addition to have fun with loved ones in the same room, so you can punch them in the arm just like you would when playing smash bros and they get all the final smashes. It's a feature you must understand the reason behind before you can make a judgement, and if playing 4 players with friends ends with everyone having bitter sweet memories of screwing each other over, then the design was a success and that's how I remember playing New Super Mario Bros Wii with my friends, it was the first time a game left me with that feeling since the original Smash Bros.

Speaking of Smash Bros, G4, and terrible reviews, anyone remember that Smash Bros review from Electric Playground where the guy obviously didn't know what he was talking about? Good times goooooood times lol

 

[Tookay]

It's a shame what graphics whoring and scripted movie-games have done to games reviews. This is why cinema critics will always be more respected. You won't see them prioritize a movie's oh so sweet cgi over the rest of its elements. If the script, directing and acting sucks, no vfx studio in California will save it.

The same applies here, gameplay will always be king, graphics should be an integral part of the experience, not the main focus. But reviewers are so keen to compare all games to the latest 300 million budget movie-game, that they relegate the gameplay experience to a sad spot in the back corner. What's worse, I'm willing to bet most of the critics of 'style' couldn't draw a butt-penis themselves. But because they played many movie-games, now they're art directors.

... Or maybe, in spite of the great level design, the game is still remarkably safe and boring.

Which means that a reviewer can find a game to be good, even great, but disappointingly pedestrian in ambition all the same, especially when one knows that Nintendo is capable of something much greater in terms of vision/presentation.

I'm a Nintendo fan, but the level of defensiveness in this thread is more than a little off-putting.

 

[Barbacoatl]

; )

Ah, an aggregate. Let's see some of the top critics

Stephanie Zacharek

"It's a remote-control movie experience, a high-tech "wish you were here" scribbled on a very expensive postcard."

 

[Do The Mario]

Although I have not followed the full debate about Feep's review (I have read the review) I wanted to make four points.

First, regarding the difficulty of early levels. People ought to go back and play the classic SMB, SMB3 and SMW games. The difficultly in those games, to my mind, has increased with nostalgia (although admittedly it is also hard for me to tell because I replay SMB/SMB3 not infrequently). The simple point it that it is not too hard to finish the first world of SMB3 with 20-30+ lives and without dropping any 1-ups.

Secondly, my girlfriend recently started playing New Super Mario Bros on my extra 3DS (post XL upgrade). Those early levels, which an experienced Mario player will breeze through, are not so easy for the first time player (or in this case a player who had not played 2d Mario since the original gameboy).

Thirdly, it is fantastic to see the game getting such great scores. Fans of 2D Mario (and the NSMB games) should be really excited.

Finally, [this is an edit] chill out people. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.

 

[Feep]

Ah, an aggregate. Let's see some of the top critics

Stephanie Zacharek

"It's a remote-control movie experience, a high-tech "wish you were here" scribbled on a very expensive postcard."

Ah, I'm just kiddin'. I liked Avatar.

 

[Barbacoatl]

... Or maybe, in spite of the great level design, the game is still remarkably safe and boring.

Which means that a reviewer can find a game to be good, even great, but disappointingly pedestrian in ambition all the same, especially when one knows that Nintendo is capable of something much greater in terms of vision/presentation.

I'm a Nintendo fan, but the level of defensiveness in this thread is more than a little off-putting.

Assuming you have played the game extensively, just how boring is it?

 

[MaxwellGT2000]

Although I have not followed the full debate about Feep's review (I have read the review) I wanted to make three points.

First, regarding the difficulty of early levels. People ought to go back and play the classic SMB, SMB3 and SMW games. The difficultly in those games, to my mind, has increased with nostalgia (although admittedly it is also hard for me to tell because I replay SMB/SMB3 not infrequently). The simple point it that it is not too hard to finish the first world of SMB3 with 20-30+ lives and without dropping any 1-ups.

Secondly, my girlfriend recently started playing New Super Mario Bros on my extra 3DS (post XL upgrade). Those early levels, which an experienced Mario player will breeze through, are not so easy for the first time player (or in this case a player who had not played 2d Mario since the original gameboy).

Finally, it is fantastic to see the game getting such great scores. Fans of 2D Mario (the NSMB games) should be really excited.

Actually this is a fair point to be made, I was dating a girl who would make Cammie at E3 playing NSMB Wii look like a good player, but having difficulty that could catch her and build her into a player that can eventually beat the game is where you want to be, it's where I want games to be when I want people I care about to share my experiences and share some good times. Not everyone can be Halo co-op ready out the gate.