Well yes, but they didn't exactly paint it in a way that says "With UE4 you'll be able to cut some of those costs!"
Wii U clock speeds are found by marcan
- Thread starter Pooya
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Well yes, but they didn't exactly paint it in a way that says "With UE4 you'll be able to cut some of those costs!"
Yeah. This is the notable difference between the Wii U multi SKU setup and the 360 one: both Wii U SKUs have the same functionality. The 360 one did not.
I imagine amount of space available / connectivity is different in the 720/PS4 versions, but not an actual different in input options or functionality. Whatever would only be in the upper version would see less support.
Oculus support on Durango and/or Orbis? I'd say it's entirely within the realm of possibility. The technology is up to speed, if a bit expensive.
Yeah, both Microsoft and Sony will have to go all or nothing with new features this time around.
metalslimer
Member
The gamepad may as well be in a separate SKU because outside of Nintendo, 3rd parties are going to completely ignore it.
Yeah, it's pretty funny reading this kind of stuff before consistent sales data has come out. I mean if it had been out for a year bombing sure. The flipside of the argument that Nintendo is a dumb company who is going to fail, that if Sony/MS struggle out of the gate with more expensive consoles than does that validate Ninendo's strategy?
Yeah, it's pretty funny reading this kind of stuff before consistent sales data has come out. I mean if it had been out for a year bombing sure. The flipside of the argument that Nintendo is a dumb company who is going to fail, that if Sony/MS struggle out of the gate with more expensive consoles than does that validate Ninendo's strategy?
I for one hope we move away from the "AAA" business model. Higher and higher budget games that get less and less creative and more and more iterative. Console games have stagnated hard this generation.
I'd welcome a return to fresh, unique, low budget games in a heartbeat.
I think it will be used by plenty just might not be anything huge like nintendo will. I can see a lot of games using the pad as map or inventory management. The idea behind the tablet controller is solid just not excuted right. The tablet was to low res and not multi touch. That and the Wii U does not have the horse power to run to tablet controllers at once.
I think it's a little early to make this conclusion. GamePad support probably won't be overwhelming, but it's definitely easier to integrate than motion control for most core games. Also, since Nintendo finally has a robust, inviting DD infrastructure, we could see indie developers doing some pretty interesting things with it.
It's always possible for everyone to be making mistakes and doing dumb things.
metalslimer
Member
Possible, but I still feel like a lot the hatred the Wii got was because people feel like it undeservedly was crushing the PS3/360. Nintendo was making massive amounts of money while MS had a console with a kill switch and Sony looked like they were on their way out of VGs as much money as they were losing. To this day, people maintain Nintendo had the wrong strategy with the Wii, and that Sony and MS finally starting to make some cash years later validates there. Nintendo is seen as taking away real sales and money from the hardcore games on the PS3/360 and everytime a shitty Wii 3rd party game bombed it was proof that all the success was fake.
This isn't to say that Nintendo didn't make a shit ton of mistakes with the Wii, or that Sony and MS didn't do a good number thigns right with the PS3/360 (especialy network related), but the revisionist history that goes on is interesting.
Publishers will continue to do what they've been doing because it's all they really know how to do: Isolate the most successful avenues from those which aren't and send the latter packing. Once the most successful are identified, push them higher and higher to fight off competitors.
Isn't it a bit early to be jumping to this conclusion? I'm not completely sold on the idea but I still would like to see developers try to use it. Using it as a motion sensor in Aliens sounds like an awesome experience IMO.
metalslimer
Member
3rd parties want things to be simplified when they are porting things. Unless Sony and MS both put out touchscreen controllers, I doubt it will get much use outside of maps and inventory management.
I think that anti-Wii zeitgeist was a combination of people not liking motion controls and the relative dearth of third party support. Even when Sony and Microsoft were losing money on their new consoles, they had the upper hand in terms of blockbuster releases, and it gave them a lot more headspace than Nintendo among certain audiences. This, of course, gets taken to the extremes by people who insist that every Wii ever sold is gathering dust, while ignoring that the attach rate is only slightly lower than the HD twins.
Well, it's still an available feature on 360 and PS3 thanks for Smartglass and Vita/PSP connectivity. We could see situations like the PSMove where certain games make the jump from one system to the other.
metalslimer
Member
This is what confuses the hell out of me. Saying there were only casuals that boguht the Wii and then threw it in the closet after playing Wii Sports means there must be millions of people who own like 50 games. to balance it out and get that attach rate.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
Have you used it? I thought the same about multi and the resolution but they really are not needed when you also have 2 joysticks and buttons. The brightness and color could have been better though. Also the system is compatible with 2 controllers. They just aren't supporting it or selling a separate one in the US. And that is a good thing because people would buy the controller and think it worked on the Wii.
metalslimer
Member
The Wii U controller is not a tablet and was not designed to be a tablet. Despite Evillore's jab at about the battery life and range, Nintendo never meant for it to compete with the iPad or Nexus 7. It's a gaming controller with a touchscreen that adds functionality. There are barely any apps and that rumors abotu a Nintendo app store seems false. For what it is (a touchscreen game pad) the resolution and the resistive touch (man this technology has come a long way since the DS) is fine. I'm not sure how much of a draw the gamepad will be, and actually have doubts, but people who think it was just designed to seriously compete with Apple/Google/Samsung seriously don't know Nintendo.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Gamepad functionality seems like it would be easier to implement than Wiimote controls, doesn't it? I have no idea if that's true but that's what it seems like, so I'm thinking every multi-plat game outside of pure casual shovelware will get Gamepad features, and not just being able to play on it (which should become standard).
As usual, the reality is most likely a softened version of that. The Wii's casual audience probably does fall a few games short of the average attach rate, but there are still a significant number of "traditional" Nintendo fans who pick up the slack. I'm sure the same basic pattern can be found to a lesser extent on PS3/360, especially after Kinect, Move, Netflix, and various price drops.
Far and away easier to add than motion control. Most devs have reported that the GamePad is easy to work with, and it seems like off-screen play, along with functional map/radar, menus, and minigames will be trivial to implement. The million dollar question is who will go above and beyond those features.
I jokingly think that Nintendo has like 10 brilliant people to work on games...only 10. They have to do one game at a time and can't work on two projects at once. It's the only thing I can think of as to why they don't bang out new IP's or release games in a timely fashion. Nintendo should already have solid dates for Zelda, Metroid, Mario, new IP etc. What are the 10 guys working on now?
shinobi602
Member
Not by an insane amount. They said development costs at the start of next gen will double what the development costs were at the start of this gen. So if Gears 1 took around $10 million to develop, next gen it'll take $20 million.
Nintendo's hierarchy actually makes this pretty easy to keep track of. At Nintendo EAD, Software Development Groups 1, 2, and 3 and both Tokyo Development Groups currently have no known projects, so we're most likely due for some big announcements in the coming months.
I get the feeling that next-gen budget increases will be mostly due to extrapolations of current trends in expected features, marketing, and the like, rather than being caused by the move to new hardware and engines.
I can forgive multi-touch but not resolution. I think a higher resultion screen would of made a big difference especially when streaming games or content to it. I used the controller and I liked the idea behind it a lot much better than the kinect,Wii Mote or move. The clarity on the screen is just was not what it should be because of the low resolution for its size.
metalslimer
Member
20 milion combined with marketing costs will still make it very difficult to break even on anything early next gen which is why people should have their expectations in line because most games will probably continue to be on PS3/360 while the other two get souped up versions.
A higher res screen would have been nice, but there was definitely a cost cut there and probably also a power concern. The Wii U probably would have difficulties sending out another 720p image.
Saint Gregory
Member
Prior to owning a WiiU I felt like this was going to be like motion controls all over again where devs are struggling to find adequate uses for the default control scheme but now that I've owned one for almost a week I think just having games compatible with off screen play will be enough to make me happy.
I didn't think it would be a feature that I would care about that much but I'd actually prefer lazy implementation like that to the complex uses games like ZombiU are trying to come up for it. I'm getting in so much game time now compared to other home consoles and PC because I can play while doing other activities.
dollartaco
Member
You know, all I want is a goddamn 11th man to work on Xenoblade HD. Hell, have him re-release the entire Wii catalog in HD. Some of those Wii games look fucking gorgeous in Dolphin. They can add gamepad functionality to utilize 1- or 2-screen gameplay, or both, or neither -- doesn't matter to me.
I would be amazed if those figures included marketing etc. Hands down the dev of the decade.
I have 25, 24 if you don't count Wii Sports.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Yeah, that aspect of it is pretty nifty, and I quite like it. I just wish the range was just a bit better. I'm obviously just pulling numbers out of my ass, but you increase it's range/reliability by 50 - 100%, and I'm delighted.
Fair enough. Other factors such as what they are trying to do in the game is also something to be considered. If any developer tries to downport a PS4/720 title to the Wii-U, it's likely the use of the pad will be very light to keep the performance cost low.
dollartaco
Member
Saint Gregory said:
I agree to an extent. I hope they make games that really take advantage of the controller for what it adds to the gameplay qualitatively, but the other strength of the system is that it really does fit the way I'd like to use my living room. For that reason alone, I've played more Mario than ZombiU. What it adds to a game like ZombiU by essentially placing the HUD off-TV is really valuable to the experience, though.
The third way is what I'm really, really hoping devs tap into. I love the idea of asymmetrical multiplayer along the lines of what is done in ZombiU and in Nintendo Land. I don't have enough people around to play it like that, but the idea is exciting.
Pretty much.
Once again pretty much all assets nowadays are made at a far higher quality than what we're seeing.
For example software such as Zbrush allow for insanely high poly modeling to be created with such ease.
I do think we've pretty much reached the apex of budgets.
metalslimer
Member
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
I never really understood the thought process behind wanting Nintendo to abandon providing something unique with their console and instead go full-force into the hardware graphical arms race. From a consumer's perspective, don't we already have two companies doing just that, resulting in systems providing (mostly) the same exact experience outside of exclusives? Why would you want another system that is basically the same thing as the other two shortly coming to the market?
I personally don't even think that stronger hardware like what is estimated for the PS4/720 would provide for much greater Nintendo experiences then what the WiiU is already capable of. Now maybe for second party developers like Retro and Moonlith it would, but for Nintendo's own games developed in house, new and intuitive gameplay ideas have always been put first over graphical advances. I believe the opportunities provided by the Gamerpad outweigh the potential strengths a large hardware upgrade would provide for Nintendo's main franchises.
I personally don't even think that stronger hardware like what is estimated for the PS4/720 would provide for much greater Nintendo experiences then what the WiiU is already capable of. Now maybe for second party developers like Retro and Moonlith it would, but for Nintendo's own games developed in house, new and intuitive gameplay ideas have always been put first over graphical advances. I believe the opportunities provided by the Gamerpad outweigh the potential strengths a large hardware upgrade would provide for Nintendo's main franchises.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The ICO/SotC collection is my favorite way of playing those games, it's super-gorgeous as the MGS 2 + MGS 3 collection on PS3 and PS Vita.
As an animator I doubt much will change.
We don't get paid much. :'(
I worded it badly since I was only really speaking on a technical level, but you're definitely right.
Saint Gregory
Member
WARNING: OT DERAIL
Yeah the Team ICO collection and the GoW collection are fantactic and should be the baseline for HD ports. I will get around to the MGS collection at some point but I have a feeling that it will just be the individual MGS3 download for me, I'm not a big fan of MGS2 or PO.
All my favorite Nintendo franchises are completely normal games, no weird controllers, 3D, screens, etc. that said, none of my favorite Nintendo franchises need much processing power either.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
I don't think the clarity is due to the resolution as much as it is due to the quality of the screen. Everything looks muted. So yes If they did use a cell phone quality screen it would look better, but that's fine because I will never use the screen to play a game on without the TV, I will only use it for whatever features require it. I do think though that the screen looks better than Wii games did on my TV.
IIRC Zbrush is already used for environmental work as well.
For building entire environments? Or just set pieces?
UE3 still uses the Unreal Editor to create the environments, but you can import meshes created in Zbrush for finish elements. If you can use Zbrush to create larger elements, great. UDK runs like poo on my PC, so I haven't taken the time to relearn how to use UnrealEd.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
That is understandable. I personally think IR added a lot to Galaxy and Metroid Prime, while motion controls did the same for Skyward Sword, but I could see how others don't feel the same. That said, looking at Nintendo's current WiiU output, I would rather have the ability to play NSMBU in bed instead of it simply looking better, and NintendoLand wouldn't even be (currently) possible on another console. As for Pikimin 3, it's a question of whether you want better graphics or the intuitiveness and better controls the Wiimote + Nunchuck provides for that specific series. I lean towards the latter, but I'm a gameplay > graphics type guy.
Point being, I just don't see many Nintendo series that would greatly benefit from 720 graphical capabilities compared to WiiU graphical capabilities.
prag16
Banned
This. Multitouch is 100% unnecessary. Even in the web browser, I hardly ever touch the screen. All navigation can be done just fine using the buttons/sticks. It works very well actually.
Granted, the resolution could have been better; especially when I'm used to a 4.5 inch 720p phone screen... the 6.2 inch 480p screen looks mediocre by comparison. But overall it's a minor complaints, to me.
You can have both. A unique controller with powerful hardware was what Nintendo was known for before the Wii. Nintendo put day 1 (or close to) profits as a top priority. They also crippled their engineers by focusing on low power draw and small form factor. The WiiU pad is different but it's also the first Nintendo controller that I could have easily seen MS or Sony coming up with on their own. It really doesn't feel like typical Nintendo innovation and more an evolution of the DS tech and following current technology trends. It just seems like a resource hogging, low battery life controller that added unnecessarily to the cost of the system. It took a lot of effort to releases a system that's only on-par or slightly above current gen consoles. Seriously, these systems are ancient compared to current tech.
I'm sure I'll want one when 3d Mario, Zelda and Metroid Prime appear, but it's still gonna be a sore spot for me.
If Nintendo had made a system capable of current gen software at 1080p@30fps, I would have been content and considered it a nice in-between generation system. Instead, they seem to have made a system that needs special attention in order to match or (maybe to an extent) exceed what we currently have.
cartman414
Member
Should've put his other tweets up there too.
Not as cut and dry as "OMG CPU iz so slow". Architecture/IPC are just as important. Remember Intel's transition from P4 to Core? Slower clock speeds, but double the performance.
Not as cut and dry as "OMG CPU iz so slow". Architecture/IPC are just as important. Remember Intel's transition from P4 to Core? Slower clock speeds, but double the performance.