Support NeoGAF

[DonasaurusRex]

only way they will rescue Win8 , will be to slowly crush win7 with less support and fewer features. Win7 is really good they should've just made win8 like a win 7.5 upgrade type deal and gave themselves time to make something truly polished and revolutionary following, but as it stands it doesnt help that win7 is really good.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

The hidden controls and navigation in all the corners is bizarre. The two desktops that operate and look different are awful. It's a compromised OS that doesn't effectively sell or educate on its new features.

It has good ideas, but they aren't convincingly or confidently applied. Windows will be fine in a few years as they iterate.

 

[Wiktor]

when box office numbers for a hit movie come out and say "HIGHEST GROSSING FILM OF ALL TIME" do you believe it's unmatched by any other film in history?

I'd hope not, because chances are, when adjusted for inflation, and older movie sold way more.

You can't compare raw numbers across huge spaces of time, you need other metrics to look at that show trends and how successful a product is doing in its current space, versus the space of the previous product.

Except the raw sales numbers are akin to sales of tickets, not the gross.
It's not perfect metric, but at the very least it's better than market share is. You can have company drop in market share, while in reality they are doing better than ever. Once you cross certain thresshold of scale market share doesn't matter much.
Marketshare is best suited for fanboy wars on forum, not much else.

 

[rohlfinator]

To be fair, with early versions (Donut?) of Android you had to kill apps if you wanted your battery to last.

Ah, so there was a reason for it then? By the time I got into Android (around Froyo, I think) task killers were mostly treated as snake oil.

And unless I'm mistaken, the "suspended" apps are only for Metro. You still have to close down any programs running on the desktop to prevent them from eating up all your memory. So the conversation with know-nothing-Bob is "Hey Bob, don't worry about quitting your apps running in the modern UI, they intelligently suspend and conserve memory... but you DO have to close programs running on your desktop if you don't want them eating up memory."

I can't imagine that being a big issue -- "know-nothing-Bob" is going to be getting Windows 8 installed on modern hardware where he shouldn't need to micro-manage his memory usage anyway.

It's a compromised OS that doesn't effectively sell or educate on its new features.

That's its biggest failing, for sure. A more discoverable UI is always a good thing. And Win8 makes a bad first impression by tossing you into all the new stuff rather than acclimating you with something familiar first.

But I have a hard time understanding why that's a dealbreaker for so many people, especially a relatively tech-savvy crowd like NeoGAF. Most of this stuff takes two seconds of searching to figure out. But a lot of people here seem to be getting a few steps in, finding out they don't know how to do 'X', and throwing their hands up in the air while declaring the whole thing to be crap.

 

[Snakeyes]

But I have a hard time understanding why that's a dealbreaker for so many people, especially a relatively tech-savvy crowd like NeoGAF. Most of this stuff takes two seconds of searching to figure out. But a lot of people here seem to be getting a few steps in, finding out they don't know how to do 'X', and throwing their hands up in the air while declaring the whole thing to be crap.

Because all the little annoyances add up to a very poor first impression. We ask ourselves; "If using 8 is already troublesome at such a basic level, what could it be like during more serious tasks? Is this really worth our time?"

Not to mention that seeing Microsoft ditch a desktop interface that worked perfectly for millions of power users over an attempt to woo the casual tablet crowd really makes people question the company's priorities and decision making.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

But I have a hard time understanding why that's a dealbreaker for so many people, especially a relatively tech-savvy crowd like NeoGAF. Most of this stuff takes two seconds of searching to figure out. But a lot of people here seem to be getting a few steps in, finding out they don't know how to do 'X', and throwing their hands up in the air while declaring the whole thing to be crap.

Knowing how to do something doesn't mean it's fun or natural to do. Moving my mouse to the corners to reveal arbitrarily located hidden navigation and options over and over is a chore.

I'm really into Metro as an ideology, but for some reason Microsoft hides everything in the UI and was too chicken to either go all in on Metro or integrate it into the desktop better.

 

[xenist]

But I have a hard time understanding why that's a dealbreaker for so many people, especially a relatively tech-savvy crowd like NeoGAF. Most of this stuff takes two seconds of searching to figure out. But a lot of people here seem to be getting a few steps in, finding out they don't know how to do 'X', and throwing their hands up in the air while declaring the whole thing to be crap.

Because I find it aesthetically messy for one. I have turned the UI on both my PC and phone as minimal and text based as possible. I think these "cool" screenshots people have been posting of Win 8 to be eyesores. They're overly busy bleeping, blooping and blinking messes. I hate OS X's stupid parade of icons on the dock for the exact same reason. iOS home screen too.

Because I find the dual UI metaphors between Metro and desktop dumb. It's not even a true hybrid solution. That, I could live with. Make a hard binary choice between them and stick to it until you choose otherwise. No desktop stuff present in Metro no Metro stuff (charms and shit) present in desktop. And no I will not buy some third party application to put a fake Win 7 on top.

And finally because I disagree completely with MS's new desire to pursue an Apple like ecosystem on the PC.

 

[Alx]

Because I find it aesthetically messy for one. I have turned the UI on both my PC and phone as minimal and text based as possible.

That's strange, considering the idea behind metro is mostly about being minimal and text-based...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_(design_language)#Principles

The design language places emphasis on good typography and has large text that catches the eye. Microsoft says that the design language is designed to be "sleek, quick, modern" and a "refresh" from the icon-based interfaces of Windows, Android, and iOS. (...)The design language was designed specifically to consolidate groups of common tasks to speed up usage. This is accomplished by excluding superfluous graphics and instead relying on the actual content to also function as the main UI. The resulting interfaces favour larger hubs over smaller buttons and often feature laterally scrolling canvases. Page titles are usually large and consequently also take advantage of lateral scrolling.

 

[aaaaa0]

Knowing how to do something doesn't mean it's fun or natural to do. Moving my mouse to the corners to reveal arbitrarily located hidden navigation and options over and over is a chore.

How are they arbitrary?

The bottom left brings up Start, same corner of the screen as the Start button in Win7.

The top left is the last app in your back stack, the same corner a browser usually puts the back button.

Both the right corners invoke the Charms, the only remaining unused corners.

Seems pretty logical to me.

 

[xenist]

That's strange, considering the idea behind metro is mostly about being minimal and text-based...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_(design_language)#Principles

Large multicolored squares with all sorts of icons, pop-ups, scrolling text and pictures in them are not my idea of minimalism. I love the Metro design language for individual applications. I loved the early leaked shots of Metro applications.

 

[kitch9]

If your looking to get your Start button back, take a look at Stardocks addon.

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/features.asp

Amazing.... What does that do that Windows 8 start doesn't do again? If I'm going to spend money it better do more stuff...

 

[kitch9]

And unless I'm mistaken, the "suspended" apps are only for Metro. You still have to close down any programs running on the desktop to prevent them from eating up all your memory. So the conversation with know-nothing-Bob is "Hey Bob, don't worry about quitting your apps running in the modern UI, they intelligently suspend and conserve memory... but you DO have to close programs running on your desktop if you don't want them eating up memory."

It is disjointed and confusing.

Or fuggedabowdit and let Windows memory management do its job.....

 

[Totakeke]

Amazing.... What does that do that Windows 8 start doesn't do again? If I'm going to spend money it better do more stuff...

Give the warm sense of familiarity? Once you've been entrenched in a world for so long, it's no surprise that you'd feel offended or threatened once someone decides to change the status quo.

 

[Risette]

Large multicolored squares with all sorts of icons, pop-ups, scrolling text and pictures in them are not my idea of minimalism. I love the Metro design language for individual applications. I loved the early leaked shots of Metro applications.

They're also asymmetrical. :x

Give the warm sense of familiarity? Once you've been entrenched in a world for so long, it's no surprise that you'd feel offended or threatened once someone decides to change the status quo.

It's usually when the change is for the worse and/or does not offer a worthwhile advantage (ie, worth the time and effort to unlearn the old and learn the new) over what has already been learned and mastered.

Whether you agree with them is another thing, but trying to paint people who react adversely to Metro as dinosaurs resistant to change is disingenuous at best.

 

[Totakeke]

Only if you think you're one of them. Trying to paint me as referring to everyone who dislikes Windows 8 is disingenuous as well.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Trying to unify desktop and mobile UI was just not good idea. touch vs k+m

 

[Risette]

Only if you think you're one of them. Trying to paint me as referring to everyone who dislikes Windows 8 is disingenuous as well.

I didn't say a thing about people who disliked Windows 8 as a whole. Read it again -- I do not even refer to Windows 8 once. Your post to which I replied to is about Windows 8 users who buy an add-on to bring back a more familiar interface, mocking in tone to those who are resistant to change that they do not feel is positive.

 

[xenist]

Only if you think you're one of them. Trying to paint me as referring to everyone who dislikes Windows 8 is disingenuous as well.

Don't act offended. You used loaded language for a reason.

...warm sense of familiarity...entrenched...offended or threatened... vs. ...change the status quo. Condescending and negative descriptions for those not liking it contrasted to a positive description for those liking it.

 

[CrankyKong]

Throw in a copy of Start8 with every new Windows 8 PC

 

[Zaptruder]

Trying to unify desktop and mobile UI was just not good idea. touch vs k+m

The problem is that it wasn't so much unified as it was duct taped.

 

[Totakeke]

I didn't say a thing about people who disliked Windows 8 as a whole. Read it again -- I do not even refer to Windows 8 once. Your post to which I replied to is about Windows 8 users who buy an add-on to bring back a more familiar interface, mocking in tone to those who are resistant to change that they do not feel is positive.

You said Metro, that's pretty much Windows 8 no? Unless you're talking about Windows Phone, or Zune? Either way, the main point of using the add-on is to have familiarity. Sure, you can point out some users having very specific use cases that needs the add-on, but I would hazard that's fewer than the ones who just needs the familiar interface.

Don't act offended. You used loaded language for a reason.

...warm sense of familiarity...entrenched...offended or threatened... vs. ...change the status quo. Condescending and negative descriptions for those not liking it contrasted to a positive description for those liking it.

Given how much the other side over exaggerates the issues with Windows 8 sometimes, I can have my fair share of fun too.

 

[Risette]

You said Metro, that's pretty much Windows 8 no? Unless you're talking about Windows Phone, or Zune?

Your post (to which I originally replied to) was in reply to somebody talking about "Windows 8 start", likely referring to the start menu. Come on now.

 

[mrklaw]

The hidden controls and navigation in all the corners is bizarre. The two desktops that operate and look different are awful. It's a compromised OS that doesn't effectively sell or educate on its new features.

It has good ideas, but they aren't convincingly or confidently applied. Windows will be fine in a few years as they iterate.

couldn't they just have had the metro part like Media Center was previously?


what happens to the hot corners if you have multiple monitors? Do you have to carefully hover your mouse in the right place? Corners are ok if you can just slam your mouse in that direction but that doesn't work with multiple monitors

 

[Ophiuchus]

Why is this so hard to grasp?

w8 on an ssd is marvelous. It's a FUCKTON easier to see a list of my fav apps than going through that arduous start menu from older windows. I'm honestly baffled at the tech blogs who dislike 8, the resistance to change is odd.

How did you get it to list everything like that and so small?

My tiles are huge lol

 

[Road]

Amazing.... What does that do that Windows 8 start doesn't do again? If I'm going to spend money it better do more stuff...

Better context menu, drag-and-drop, full search, ability to see what you're working with, and other superficial things such as customizability.

 

[eastmen]

How did you get it to list everything like that and so small?

My tiles are huge lol

there is a plus / minus button in the bottom right hand corner

 

[Alx]

Large multicolored squares with all sorts of icons, pop-ups, scrolling text and pictures in them are not my idea of minimalism.

I can agree with you on that. Colors can still be a good visual help, but I suppose it can be customized (and the default palette of Win8 is very vibrant).
As a general rule I'm trying to have "quiet" and simple tiles. Scrolling text would bother me, since it would be a continuous and distracting motion ; text appearing with a "flipping" animation and then standing still is ok, though.

I think there was a lot of thought put into the way the tiles refresh. If all of them were moving all the time, it would be distracting. I didn't observe it in detail, but I think they're updated only one at a time, at regular intervals.

 

[kitch9]

Better context menu, drag-and-drop, full search, ability to see what you're working with, and other superficial things such as customizability.

Yeah, we know about Windows 8 but what does Start8 do?

>,<

Christ.

How did you get it to list everything like that and so small?

My tiles are huge lol

Contrary to what some of the naysayers here think, the start menu can be customised.

 

[Road]

Yeah, we know about Windows 8 but what does Start8 do?

>,<

Christ.

Contrary to what some of the naysayers here think, the start menu can be customised.

I'd like to see from your Start Screen on Windows 8:

- an image of the context menu with all the options (open with, properties, copy, delete, send to etc.) of the regular context menu;
- a video of you dragging and dropping search results;
- a video of you searching for all types of things (files+programs+settings) at the same time;
- a video of you searching for files showing instant results as you type;
- an image of it open with GAF fully open in a browser by its side;
- an image of it showing the recent files used by a program;
- an image of it showing your most frequently used programs;
- an image of the Start Screen on the top, right of left or bottom of your screen,

without the help of customization software such as Start8.

 

[rohlfinator]

Because all the little annoyances add up to a very poor first impression. We ask ourselves; "If using 8 is already troublesome at such a basic level, what could it be like during more serious tasks? Is this really worth our time?"

"Troublesome" or "unknown to me at this time"? There are a ton of things I picked up gradually over time with Win7 or Android, it doesn't make them bad OSes. A lot of the complaints I see read less like criticism of actual design problems and more like anger that something has changed from what they're used to.

Knowing how to do something doesn't mean it's fun or natural to do. Moving my mouse to the corners to reveal arbitrarily located hidden navigation and options over and over is a chore.

Agreed that they're arbitrarily located, and some of the menus/gestures have terrible discoverability. Personally I don't find them to be any more of a chore than the start menu or show desktop button in Windows 7. And most of the corner stuff is only needed in Metro.

 

[not psycho]

And most of the corner stuff is only needed in Metro.

That's the thing, though. Microsoft intentionally made the charm bar pop up on you even when you aren't using Metro apps. And they did not given any option to disable that.

You can say it is a small annoyance to not be able to disable a pop up when you put the mouse cursor in the corner during a program that doesn't need it at all, but it is a clearly user-unfriendly design and an attack on customization.

I mean, I get that most people (unlike me) don't use the start menu, or search, or anything, while at the same time viewing or referencing other programs or folders. So they have no reason to care about a forced fullscreen to herd people towards buying Metro apps. And most people probably don't even have programs installed with multiple nested "subprograms".

But surely almost everyone would like the *option* of disabling a pop up when using programs that don't need it.

 

[aaaaa0]

what happens to the hot corners if you have multiple monitors? Do you have to carefully hover your mouse in the right place? Corners are ok if you can just slam your mouse in that direction but that doesn't work with multiple monitors

Each shared corner has an small invisible "peg" that catches the mouse pointer if it has been directed into the corner. So you can still slam the mouse into the corner, and it will catch.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012/05/21/enhancing-windows-8-for-multiple-monitors.aspx

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I'd like to see from your Start Screen on Windows 8:

- an image of the context menu with all the options (open with, properties, copy, delete, send to etc.) of the regular context menu;
- a video of you dragging and dropping search results;
- a video of you searching for all types of things (files+programs+settings) at the same time;
- a video of you searching for files showing instant results as you type;
- an image of it open with GAF fully open in a browser by its side;
- an image of it showing the recent files used by a program;
- an image of it showing your most frequently used programs;
- an image of the Start Screen on the top, right of left or bottom of your screen,

without the help of customization software such as Start8.

daaaaaaamn. somebody got called out.

 

[Totakeke]

daaaaaaamn. somebody got called out.

Sure, if you're going to pretend that Metro offers no advantages as well. It just shows that the argument has boiled down to very specific or mostly unnecessary use cases.

Oh boy, I sure wish I could look at what my browser is doing when I am trying to open up another application because I'll spend a minute on finding that application! I'm sure all those iOS and Android users have been demanding for that feature all along.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Sure, if you're going to pretend that Metro offers no advantages as well. It just shows that the argument has boiled down to very specific or mostly unnecessary use cases.

Oh boy, I sure wish I could look at what my browser is doing when I am trying to open up another application because I'll spend a minute on finding that application! I'm sure all those iOS and Android users have been demanding for that feature all along.

but...I'd do a lot of that stuff. :-(

 

[rohlfinator]

But surely almost everyone would like the *option* of disabling a pop up when using programs that don't need it.

Fully agree, the lack of customization options on a lot of the Metro features seems like a big oversight.

 

[LCfiner]

Sure, if you're going to pretend that Metro offers no advantages as well. It just shows that the argument has boiled down to very specific or mostly unnecessary use cases.

Oh boy, I sure wish I could look at what my browser is doing when I am trying to open up another application because I'll spend a minute on finding that application! I'm sure all those iOS and Android users have been demanding for that feature all along.

Expectations are different between a desktop OS and a mobile OS. I'm fine with iOS's limited multitasking - and I think Metro's split screen modes are cool.

But for a workstation, I don't think we should accept those same limitations. So comparing negative reactions of win8 users dealing with this start screen with iOS users happy with full screen apps and freeze states doesn't seem like the best comparison.

 

[StudioTan]

I'd like to see from your Start Screen on Windows 8:

- an image of the context menu with all the options (open with, properties, copy, delete, send to etc.) of the regular context menu;
- a video of you dragging and dropping search results;
- a video of you searching for all types of things (files+programs+settings) at the same time;
- a video of you searching for files showing instant results as you type;
- an image of it open with GAF fully open in a browser by its side;
- an image of it showing the recent files used by a program;
- an image of it showing your most frequently used programs;
- an image of the Start Screen on the top, right of left or bottom of your screen,

without the help of customization software such as Start8.

What I'd like to see from your Start menu:

- Seeing the weather, new emails, new tweets and your stocks at the same time without opening a piece of software
- Searching your email, ebay, amazon, wikipedia, photos and recipes in rapid succession without opening one or more programs
- Having access to 50-90+ programs, organized by category, in less 2 clicks or less. I want to see a video of you launching these programs from the Start menu in less than 2 seconds without typing
- I want to see you pin people to your Start menu so you can send them an email with 2 clicks
- I want to see a video of you finding a program in your Start menu that you don't know the name of or even the name of company that made it in under 10 seconds
- I want see you log into a second machine and have all your data, Metro theme and desktop theme synced instantly with that machine
- Now I want to see you do all that on a 10 inch tablet using only touch and see how easy it is

 

[aggro crag]

After spending an entire evening with Windows 8, I don't think it's bad at all. My frustration with it was kinda similar to switching from Office 2007 to 2010. It just takes time to get used to. Windows 8 just takes a little longer, cause you gotta work with Metro to fit your needs. Moving tiles, and shrinking them. Going into the full app list and uninstalling apps or adding them to the Metro desktop.

But in the end, if Metro is unsavory for users, you can basically live in the desktop screen. Start8 seems to be the best start menu app, and I think it also lets you disable all the corner menu stuff, and boot straight into desktop. Classic Shell is alright, but hard to get it looking anywhere close to the Windows 7 menu. But it lets you boot straight into desktop.

 

[Road]

Sure, if you're going to pretend that Metro offers no advantages as well. It just shows that the argument has boiled down to very specific or mostly unnecessary use cases.

Oh boy, I sure wish I could look at what my browser is doing when I am trying to open up another application because I'll spend a minute on finding that application! I'm sure all those iOS and Android users have been demanding for that feature all along.

The argument was: "the Start Menu is completely superseded by the Start Screen and that using programs to revert back isn't necessary because the Start Screen can do everything the Start Menu does".

That is a lie. It's not a matter of opinion. What the software can do is a fact that doesn't change based on my taste.

The argument was not: "the Start Screen adds absolutely no new functionality and that the Start Menu can do everything the Start Screen does." (That also is a lie.)

If we're gonna go back to subjectivity, then:

What I'd like to see from your Start menu:

- Seeing the weather, new emails, new tweets and your stocks at the same time without opening a piece of software
- Searching your email, ebay, amazon, wikipedia, photos and recipes in rapid succession without opening one or more programs
- Having access to 50-90+ programs, organized by category, in less 2 clicks or less. I want to see a video of you launching these programs from the Start menu in less than 2 seconds without typing
- I want to see you pin people to your Start menu so you can send them an email with 2 clicks
- I want to see a video of you finding a program in your Start menu that you don't know the name of or even the name of company that made it in under 10 seconds
- I want see you log into a second machine and have all your data, Metro theme and desktop theme synced instantly with that machine
- Now I want to see you do all that on a 10 inch tablet using only touch and see how easy it is

are all very specific or unnecessary use cases to me, so Windows 7 is better!

But that's not the point of the argument.

Carry on, knowing that Start Screen cannot do everything the Start Menu does and vice-versa and that each individual can, therefore, consider either one better than the other.

 

[Totakeke]

Expectations are different between a desktop OS and a mobile OS. I'm fine with iOS's limited multitasking - and I think Metro's split screen modes are cool.

But for a workstation, I don't think we should accept those same limitations. So comparing negative reactions of win8 users dealing with this start screen with iOS users happy with full screen apps and freeze states doesn't seem like the best comparison.

I didn't say what you said, unless you're going to argue that having a start/app menu sitting beside/on-top is essential for an OS, desktop or not.

The argument was: "the Start Menu is completely superseded by the Start Screen and that using programs to revert back isn't necessary because the Start Screen can do everything the Start Menu does".

That is a lie. It's not a matter of opinion. What the software can do is a fact that doesn't change based on my taste.

The argument was not: "the Start Screen adds absolutely no new functionality and that the Start Menu can do everything the Start Screen does." (That also is a lie.)

Sure, we agree on that. Just pointing out that you weakened your argument by putting some very weak points. It's mostly a matter of doing things differently.

 

[StudioTan]

The argument was: "the Start Menu is completely superseded by the Start Screen and that using programs to revert back isn't necessary because the Start Screen can do everything the Start Menu does".

That is a lie. It's not a matter of opinion. What the software can do is a fact that doesn't change based on my taste.

The argument was not: "the Start Screen adds absolutely no new functionality and that the Start Menu can do everything the Start Screen does." (That also is a lie.)

If we're gonna go back to subjectivity, then:



are all very specific or unnecessary use cases to me, so Windows 7 is better!

But that's not the point of the argument.

Carry on, knowing that Start Screen cannot do everything the Start Menu does and vice-versa and that each individual can, therefore, consider either one better than the other.

You don't use the Start menu to launch programs? Kind seems like a necessary use case to me. You'd think you'd want to do it quicker and easier.

Let's go back to you list though. Give me a specific use case where you need to search files, settings and programs at the same time.

 

[Shawsie64]

I think the 'issues' with Windows 8 are overblown. I run Windows 8, its good. Fast and easy to use on my SSD. I used to use Windows 7 which was good too.

I remember the good old days of being in primary school and thinking Windows 98 was the worst thing since sliced bread when it came out. The cycle continues.

 

[Road]

Sure, we agree on that. Just pointing out that you weakened your argument by putting some very weak points. It's mostly a matter of doing things differently.

The strength you speak of is subjective, which again was not the point of my argument. (To me, those capabilities are far from very weak points, they are in fact very strong points, basically the strongest points that made me not like Windows 8. We can do this all day, but that is besides the original point.)

You don't use the Start menu to launch programs? Kind seems like a necessary use case to me. You'd think you'd want to do it quicker and easier.

Let's go back to you list though. Give me a specific use case where you need to search files, settings and programs at the same time.

Again, what I do is irrelevant since it doesn't change what Windows 8 or 7 can and cannot do. (Sorry if I'm being repetitive, but I apparently need to.)

FTR, no, I don't really have the need to look at 50 or so installed programs (not sure I even have more than 30 installed) on screen at the same time to launch one of them often. And it was probably months ago the last time I didn't really remember the name of the software and couldn't find it only by typing to search, having to go look into the folders thing.

I like the unified search better because it's simpler, I don't need to be using different shortcuts or changing between types of searches if I don't find what I'm looking for, and 99.9% of the time I find everything I want by simply pressing WinKey and typing.

But, again, what I do is irrelevant to someone else.

 

[cbox]

How did you get it to list everything like that and so small?

My tiles are huge lol

I have a 27 inch monitor so that might be it, I scaled down the image.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I think the 'issues' with Windows 8 are overblown. I run Windows 8, its good. Fast and easy to use on my SSD. I used to use Windows 7 which was good too.

I remember the good old days of being in primary school and thinking Windows 98 was the worst thing since sliced bread when it came out. The cycle continues.

Windows 95/98 didn't come with Windows 3.1 as a second desktop, and even if it did, Windows 3.1 wasn't that different anyway.

The worst you could say for older Windows versions is that DOS was still around if you wanted it for some reason, but you didn't need it.

 

[aaaaa0]

Windows 95/98 didn't come with Windows 3.1 as a second desktop

It actually did! Well at least the UI part. Switching to it was a bit of a pain though.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/142255

 

[aaaaa0]

But for a workstation, I don't think we should accept those same limitations. So comparing negative reactions of win8 users dealing with this start screen with iOS users happy with full screen apps and freeze states doesn't seem like the best comparison.

The iOS-style app limitations don't apply to desktop apps, which would be the kind of apps you'd run on a workstation machine anyway.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I want to get rid of the cursor, but every corner does something.

 

[mavs]

I like the unified search better because it's simpler, I don't need to be using different shortcuts or changing between types of searches if I don't find what I'm looking for, and 99.9% of the time I find everything I want by simply pressing WinKey and typing.

Isn't this what all the win8 defenders were touting? Win7 still does it better?