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[DopeyFish]

Weren't too many differences between sides according to last week. Not terribly much to explain to mediators I'd think. Issue, as always, is who wants a deal and when.

There are two reasons to bring in mediators:

To try to pry the nhl off one of their four stances:

Economics, contract caps, variances and term

The other is an attempt to frame the nhl as not negotiating in good faith, which they clearly have been

If a deal is signed good, but mediation (in NHLPA case) is more a ploy for future shenanigans

 

[yankeehater]

I really hope it doesnt come to the players trying to decertify. I dont even understand how they could sell older players on that. If you only have 2 or 3 years left, why would you agree to potentially spend 2 of them fighting the NHL in court.

 

[Rodeo Clown]

The other is an attempt to frame the nhl as not negotiating in good faith, which they clearly have been

I don't really see a take it or leave proposal as good faith. And I don't see "giving back" things the players already had as concessions.

 

[Freyjadour]

Saw a tweet earlier about the NHL agreeing to mediators entirely due to concern for appearances of negotiating in good faith.

Mediation is a stall tactic regardless on behalf of PA. Fuck em.

 

[ShaneB]

Ahhhhh, finals done. Time for a deal?

Nope. I'm joining the fuck out of team nope. Lose all your money you uncooperative pieces of...

Spoiler

(I'm a giant hypocrite who will love the shit out all of them the second a deal is announced)

I'm wondering what reactions will be during those first home games, will be there be a chorus of boos? I mean, I'd guess not, otherwise why would those people show up anyway. Will they cheer? I mean are they cheering just that the NHL is back? I can't see how anyone can cheer for players right away given how this mess has gone on.

Who knows.. I'm on team nope, will keep saying I'd just rather the season cancelled so I can move on, but I want hockey back just as much too.

 

[Cat Party]

There's no reason to write off mediation as a ploy or tactic. It changes the dynamic of a tense negotiation, usually for the better.

 

[rellix]

I'm wondering what reactions will be during those first home games, will be there be a chorus of boos? I mean, I'd guess not, otherwise why would those people show up anyway. Will they cheer? I mean are they cheering just that the NHL is back? I can't see how anyone can cheer for players right away given how this mess has gone on.

Who knows.. I'm on team nope, will keep saying I'd just rather the season cancelled so I can move on, but I want hockey back just as much too.

i love the people who won't go based on the lockout.

i didn't go to a single game last year partially out of laziness but also for financial reasons. if this drives prices down significantly in DC (probably won't), then i'll eat up them tickets.

 

[KingHenrik30]

There's no reason to write off mediation as a ploy or tactic. It changes the dynamic of a tense negotiation, usually for the better.

It's certainly been beneficial so far....

 

[Wendel Clark]

http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/o...eafs-merchandise-after-senators-fans-complain

they need to do something about the pro leafs display inside scotiabank place (had to look up the name)

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Basically the only reason to decertify is if a) NHLPA isn't representing the players properly or b) they are unable to negotiate with the NHL as a single body

In court, both claims wouldn't fly and decertification would fail

And jake gardiner has a concussion

Those are two normal reasons to decertify, and I could see a court determining that the decertification wasn't "legitimate" if the PA continued to exist in some fashion, but I don't this is legally correct. Players can decertify and file an antitrust suit if they want. A court can't force players to stay in their union if their is a decertification vote. It's funny because most times it's employers who are looking for decertification so they don't have to deal with the union anymore. In the monopoly that we give the NHL the union is the only thing giving them the claim that they're not illegally colluding to set market prices.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

I don't really see a take it or leave proposal as good faith. And I don't see "giving back" things the players already had as concessions.

Dopey likes to point out how all those contracts were contingent on the old CBA. And he's right.

It would be a more forceful argument if he was logically consistent consistent. Players shouldn't have any expectations on those contracts because they're subject to the market of a later negotiation, but owners are reasonable when they expect to get a magically profitable investment just by purchasing a team.

 

[Cake Boss]

http://www.senatorsextra.com/main/o...eafs-merchandise-after-senators-fans-complain

they need to do something about the pro leafs display inside scotiabank place (had to look up the name)

Stop being salty about not making the playoffs since the last CBA, maybe with this new CBA the leafs will finally make the playoffs........





HAHAHA NO!

 

[DopeyFish]

Those are two normal reasons to decertify, and I could see a court determining that the decertification wasn't "legitimate" if the PA continued to exist in some fashion, but I don't this is legally correct. Players can decertify and file an antitrust suit if they want. A court can't force players to stay in their union if their is a decertification vote. It's funny because most times it's employers who are looking for decertification so they don't have to deal with the union anymore. In the monopoly that we give the NHL the union is the only thing giving them the claim that they're not illegally colluding to set market prices.

But they aren't colluding to set market prices, as shown by wide variances in FA- value is widely set by performance. That and the cap for individual contracts was agreed on in the CBA even though only one player has ever signed for that limit (ovechkin iirc)

They need a purpose- nfl players attempted the same stuff and courts found that their lockout was legal and players inc could not continue their decertification and nhl has a lot more ground to stand on. The only true thing that could come into contention through decertification is the draft, which would then have huge implications across all North American sports leagues which I have my doubts courts will touch with a 10 foot pole - though not denying that there could be changes

Decertification may free players from the draft but values of players would basically be reset- player value from the current median on downward would take a significant hit. Stars will be paid higher. Thing is, variances would largely remain the same unless some idiot of a team signs a holik for $8 million (wtf sather) the pure difference will be teams buying power will be different- instead of associating value, it will be associating what they were willing to pay. (In terms of star players) So for high end players, they'd just neglect the bottom 20 teams

Actual player dollar spend will decrease across the league (due to a shift to maintain business profitability) as well as the average dollar spend per player ( as more money would be appropriated to stars relative to average players)

One could argue the CBA and the cap is maintaining logical spending parameters and its increasing the average nhl player salary, while decertified, it really only helps the top 5% in majority of scenarios while suppressing everyone else

 

[G17]

Of course Mike Ulmer from mapleleafs.com responds to Sens fans.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHm02DTSQV8

 

[Cake Boss]

 

[SpectreFire]

Gord Miller ‏@GMillerTSN

The consensus among NHL management types/agents here this morning is that there will definitely be a resolution to the lockout, and soon.

Hey, look! Some Hopium from TSN personality Gord Miller!

Gord Miller ‏@GMillerTSN

Sadly, as much as I want to see the people out of work because of this back on the job, I don't see it. At least not yet.

NOPE.

FUCK HOPE.

 

[Quick]

Don't cry, little brother.

 

[KingHenrik30]

The hypocrisy is blinding....

 

[Merguson]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...rget-existing-long-term-deals/article6251627/

Interesting read on how the new CBA will likely target existing long-term deals.. they touched on this issue a while back but it seemed like it was put on the backburner..

of course it all doesn't matter until there's actually a CBA..

 

[Heretic]

Basically the only reason to decertify is if a) NHLPA isn't representing the players properly or b) they are unable to negotiate with the NHL as a single body

In court, both claims wouldn't fly and decertification would fail

And jake gardiner has a concussion

You know who doesn't get concussions? The Beauch!

FLEECED!!!

Spoiler

hope he gets better

 

[BigJonsson]

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper

#NHLPA's Ron Hainsey looks right at me in the lobby of the #CBA #NHL meeting and says "so much for the secret location" #kodakmoment



They should confiscate everyone's cell phones lol


Gardiner has a concussion? Nooooooooooo

Also, the Gardiner Expressway is breaking down and stuff

 

[Cake Boss]

Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib
Read as you will, but today is most optimistic I have heard club/league folks during #lockout


The Hopinator.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

And jake gardiner has a concussion

Then who will be traded for Loungo!!!

 

[ShaneB]

Every day has been the most hope, I don't know why they get spouting the same BS when it all gets shot down.

Just shut up and have the sides sequestered in some dark dingy cellar, and they'll come out with a deal.

 

[Merguson]

Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib
Read as you will, but today is most optimistic I have heard club/league folks during #lockout


The Hopinator.

Then half an hour later, he will report that his source said..

"Everything went to shit."

 

[Fei]

My prediction: We'll have NHL hockey to watch on New Years Day.

I hope.

 

[Heretic]

My prediction: We'll have NHL hockey to watch on New Years Day.

I hope.

Hope-ify your avatar, bud!!!

 

[Entropia]

My prediction: We'll have NHL hockey to watch on New Years Day.

I hope.

Nope.

 

[Kave_Man]

The ironing is delicious.

 

[Cat Party]

If someone HOPE'd my avatar (in place of the cat), I'd don it proudly.

EDIT:

This is the best I can do by myself:

 

[Fei]

Hope-ify your avatar, bud!!!

Done. That's about as happy as Ruff can look.

 

[Heretic]

Done. That's about as happy as Ruff can look.

*brofist*

If someone HOPE'd my avatar (in place of the cat), I'd don it proudly.

EDIT:

This is the best I can do by myself:

That's top-notch right there! Wear it proud!

 

[Cat Party]

Better version I think.

 

[Cake Boss]

Subban is playing like a drop in goalie in NHL 13, 3 goals on 7 shots in the first 10 minutes.

 

[CCF23]

Full slate of 15 games on New Year's Eve or New Year's Day.

HOPE

 

[Freyjadour]

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper

#NHLPA's Ron Hainsey looks right at me in the lobby of the #CBA #NHL meeting and says "so much for the secret location" #kodakmoment



They should confiscate everyone's cell phones lol


Gardiner has a concussion? Nooooooooooo

Also, the Gardiner Expressway is breaking down and stuff

It's the same location they met the federal mediators last time I believe. Should've gone to Glendale.

Subban is playing like a drop in goalie in NHL 13, 3 goals on 7 shots in the first 10 minutes.

Binnington in net? At work so I can't watch :{.

 

[Freyjadour]

Details leaking: Make Whole back at $211M (+$50M for pensions).

 

[Cat Party]

HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE

 

[Smiley90]

HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE

...wait for it.... NOPE.

 

[Cake Boss]

Leaks everywhere and not its not good for Hope team.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

The Hidenberg also had plenty of leaks before it went up in flames. #TeamHope #YOLO

 

[SuperSonic1305]

Concussions turn you into a bust. Just look at Crosby, Kaberle, Liles, Reimer, etc.

Gardiner is doomed.

 

[Smiley90]

Concussions turn you into a bust. Just look at Crosby, Kaberle, Liles, Reimer, etc.

Gardiner is doomed.

Reimer was always bad.

 

[Marvie_3]

Details leaking: Make Whole back at $211M (+$50M for pensions).

 

[wsoxfan1214]

Details leaking: Make Whole back at $211M (+$50M for pensions).

The owners are fucking idiots too, in addition to the PA. Fuck them. Useless cunts.

 

[BigJonsson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TStPNqex3uA



Yup yup yup yup yup uh huh huh

 

[SpectreFire]

Daaamn. Subban's a fucking sieve. 3 goals on 7 shots.

Corrado with Canada's lone goal.

 

[KernelPanic]

Details leaking: Make Whole back at $211M (+$50M for pensions).

Serves Fehr and the dumbfuck NHLPA right.

 

[KingHenrik30]

No progress.


NOPE!

 

[Freyjadour]

Media circus again. Seems the PA is meeting separately.