And what have valve done lately? 1, maybe 2 games a year if they release anything at all.
Valve model is not the industry model. Nor should it quite frankly.
Gabe Newell: Big companies won't stay relevant.
- Thread starter Archie
- Start date
Valve model is not the industry model. Nor should it quite frankly.
It's actually a good thing if big companies don't stay relevant. For decades, they dictate the rules. When more (smaller) companies can stay independent, the market would be more diverse.
I'm not sure if Valve is the right company to make this industry better though. It obviously offers an alternative to the retail market, but Valve doesn't do much against the decline of value and the race to the bottom.
I'm not sure if Valve is the right company to make this industry better though. It obviously offers an alternative to the retail market, but Valve doesn't do much against the decline of value and the race to the bottom.
The valve gushing in that thread was, and still is an embarassment
I assume you're referring to software. In which case:
2011: Commencement of Dota 2 beta, Portal 2, Portal 2 DLC, Portal 2 SLE, TF2 and L4D2 content updates
2012: Big Picture Mode beta -> release, continued Dota 2 development, CS:GO beta -> release, Source Filmmaker, TF2 and L4D2 content updates
And more generally there's the constant iterative updates to Steam. Outside of software there's hardware prototyping (namely the "Steambox") and the Dota 2 documentary.
Valve's output has been perfectly fine considering its headcount.
Edit: Oh, and Source 2 development, which Gabe has confirmed to be a new engine rather than a modular update to the current version of Source.
and being predisposed to the opposing viewpoint is supposed to be any better?
So basically Portal and a game in beta. Be still my heart.
Valve and steam have a vested interest in kick starter games and those like it being successful. They are going to hit steam probably before anywhere else. Add the marketing/distribution comment and it blatantly gives him away.
Is that what you call not acting like a sycophant?
Well, no, but you're free to interpret the information however you please.
If there were no longer big budget games like Crysis, GTA, and Dead Space.
I'd lose interest in video games. Don't get me wrong, small little indie titles are ok, they can be fun, but they're usually there to hold me over until a real game comes out.
If there was nothing but those little games like Braid and Sound Shapes. I would have to find a new hobby.
I'd lose interest in video games. Don't get me wrong, small little indie titles are ok, they can be fun, but they're usually there to hold me over until a real game comes out.
If there was nothing but those little games like Braid and Sound Shapes. I would have to find a new hobby.
That's not what you are doing here.
la flama blanca
Banned
You are hilarious.
Since Half-Life 2, Valve has released Half-Life 2: Deathmatch, Half-Life Deathmatch: Source, Day of Defeat: Source, Half-Life 2: Lost Coast, Half-Life 2: Episode One, Half-Life 2: Episode Two, Portal, Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2, Alien Swarm, Portal 2, and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. Yes, Dota 2 is still in closed beta, but anyone can get keys for if they look hard enough and if it was open beta, it'd probably crash the Steam servers.
In any case, for a video game company of around 400 people, that's actually a respectable release schedule. Compare to say Bethesda who has had Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim, and Dishonored and their expansions this generation.
These games don't just have to be tiny 2D productions. They encapsulate an entire middle budget tier that includes games like Amnesia, Torchlight 2, Natural Selection 2, Crusader Kings 2, ARMA, Hard Reset, Killing Floor, The Walking Dead, Zeno Clash etc.
They clearly aren't super high budget games, and none of them really offer a "cinematic" gaming experience in the traditional "AAA" Michael Bay like way, but they aren't all 2D platformer's and puzzle games, either.
It's these games in that middle ground that have pretty much become my staple in the past year, and seeing as how nearly all of the above games have been financially successful, it which naturally lead to those same dev's pumping out higher budget sequels, only this time they can have a much better chance at survival as they aren't being hamstrung by big publishers and an outdated, inflexible retail model that is dependent on a whole slew of peripheral costs.
A lot of these smaller productions will get bigger in scope over time once this section of the industry has time to grow. It's still a baby at the moment but it will get there sooner or later.
The largest movie studios have continued to remain relevant despite legal & technical revolutions that have transformed production throughout the last 100 years.
They have been able to stay relevant through offering movies that no one else can finance, the big tent-poles. And they've been able to alter their business models when tastes have changed, whether its getting into schlock horror in the 70s, running indie distribution arms in the 90s or just paring back to almost exclusively tent-poles now.
I'm expecting that there will be a period of heavy contraction where we are reduced to 5 or so major publishers that can spend $50-100 million on a game.
The rest of the environment will probably look a lot like what Gabe is envisioning.
I expect that development employment will be transformed to an almost entirely contractual basis like much of the film & television business.
They have been able to stay relevant through offering movies that no one else can finance, the big tent-poles. And they've been able to alter their business models when tastes have changed, whether its getting into schlock horror in the 70s, running indie distribution arms in the 90s or just paring back to almost exclusively tent-poles now.
I'm expecting that there will be a period of heavy contraction where we are reduced to 5 or so major publishers that can spend $50-100 million on a game.
The rest of the environment will probably look a lot like what Gabe is envisioning.
I expect that development employment will be transformed to an almost entirely contractual basis like much of the film & television business.
I dont play HL, so I wouldnt know, but are you saying all those are full fledged games as opposed to Bethesdas expansions?
Even paring it down to just the big tentpoles for Valve since Half-Life 2, you still have Portal, Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2, Portal 2, and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, with Dota 2 in closed beta.
Well, it's not a scam, but the concept has never really sat well with me. It is essentially free money and we're not talking small amounts either. Some projects get millions of dollars. If the project is successful they reap all of the benefits from it. If it's a failure, oh well, it doesn't matter. I don't like the idea of companies getting millions of dollars for nothing.
Of course there are many people that do fund these projects and that is entirely up to them.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
Yeah, that's true but let's look at Activision of today as opposed to even 3-4 years ago. Massively different company with a completely different level of output.
XtremeXpider
Member
Half Life everywhere!
LoL, is there something else in Valve, aside Half Life, L4D, Team Fortress, Counter Strike and Portal?
You might as well strike off 5 franchises of every publisher then.
Clay Davis
Member
man, he needs to shut the hell up and give a time frame for when we can expect half life 3. 
it's the only valve game I'm interested in and it's fast becoming a joke how long it's taking for them to even acknowledge or admit it's in development. that's even if it is in development.
it's the only valve game I'm interested in and it's fast becoming a joke how long it's taking for them to even acknowledge or admit it's in development. that's even if it is in development.
Glass Rebel
Member
Seeing how many big-budget bombs there are every year it's probably for the better. The people who decide what games get made are sadly very out of touch with gaming.
If you really were as interested as you claim you'd already know that they basically confirmed it to be in development.
man, he needs to shut the hell up and give a time frame for when we can expect half life 3.
it's the only valve game I'm interested in and it's fast becoming a joke how long it's taking for them to even acknowledge or admit it's in development. that's even if it is in development.
If you really were as interested as you claim you'd already know that they basically confirmed it to be in development.
XtremeXpider
Member
Well, but Sony, Nintendo and MS have more IPs than 5.
Wiktor
Member
Yeah. Plus, while I would be happy to see big companies becoming less relevant, I would also like to see Valve become far less relevant than they are now.
Clay Davis
Member
it's been in 'development' for years. episode 3 and so on.
I want more than vague hints at 'ricochet two' or what have you, I want a proper announcement along with a time frame for release. I feel we've been waiting long enough. valve time included.
jaundicejuice
Member
Square merged with Enix. Square-Enix purchased Eidos and a few smaller Japanese publishers. I want to say Natsume (could be wrong) while the names of the others escape me. Midway went out of business. THQ is in the process of going out of business. Namco merged with Bandai. Tecmo merged with Koei. The only new publisher to enter the fray is Warner Bros. Numerous independent developers have gone out of business, with almost no other studios rising to fill the voids left behind.
There has been almost nothing but contraction on the publishing and development side of things this generation.
I'm sure you can see the fallacy in comparing the ~400-person Valve to multinational corporations with thousands of employees.
I believe he is referring to next-gen games. They will be so expensive that companies who try do delve into that market will face a huge risk, and many shall fall (LOTR quote- always wanted to do that). THQ fell this gen, and the next one will be exponentially riskier.
Valve is not a big company, they do not work with budgets like that.
Valve is not a big company, they do not work with budgets like that.
Ah yes, the 3D Realms business model.
giant_frying_pan
Member
And then removed it and offered full refunds to everyone independent of the publisher.
Isn't big company structuring basically a part of human nature? They have been a part of society since society was invented, but, of course, in various forms.
People want to make money -- and as easy as possible. Corporations see a need, and they fill it -- they have the funding to market it to a huge number of people, as opposed to most other avenues. (Cause they dabble in many industries.)
Then they streamline, and widen the appeal (I.e; make it generic.) of any popular formula that, most likely, someone creative made.
How can that process stop? I seriously doubt pretty much all the statements by big companies regarding budget issues and such. I doubt they are so incredibly inefficient that they need 50+ million for, ie, FPS games and such..
In order for big companies to go away, gaming would have to break down, something similar to the first big breakdown in gaming -- and the best selling games would just break even. (Independantly made games.)
People want to make money -- and as easy as possible. Corporations see a need, and they fill it -- they have the funding to market it to a huge number of people, as opposed to most other avenues. (Cause they dabble in many industries.)
Then they streamline, and widen the appeal (I.e; make it generic.) of any popular formula that, most likely, someone creative made.
How can that process stop? I seriously doubt pretty much all the statements by big companies regarding budget issues and such. I doubt they are so incredibly inefficient that they need 50+ million for, ie, FPS games and such..
In order for big companies to go away, gaming would have to break down, something similar to the first big breakdown in gaming -- and the best selling games would just break even. (Independantly made games.)
Not Natsume, Taito. Natsume is the small little 70 man team that makes the Harvest Moon games, and somehow escaped this gen unscathed. Also don't forget Konami buying Hudson and Activision merging with Blizzard.
The Faceless Master
Member
i guess that also explains why they'll never have good customer service.
and here i was thinking they remained relevant due to creative accounting, oligopoly-like control of distribution and public funding for shooting from various local governments.
and here i was thinking they remained relevant due to creative accounting, oligopoly-like control of distribution and public funding for shooting from various local governments.
Weltall Zero
Member
Pretty much this. To be fair, the thread title simply mirrored the article title itself, which was the original source of the sensationalist, completely made-up statement.
Again, the point is not that big companies will become irrelevant, but companies that still cling to the old developer->publisher->retail model.
I agree, but "new age of gaming" is awfully grandiose for what effectively amounts to "age where people don't value games as highly".
That's value in a purely literal sense, I should add.
Edit: Although in the context of Kickstarter, that skews it a bit, since it's based around *some* people valuing games *very* highly. Similarly with 'whale'-based F2P titles. My first statement only really applies to the single finished purchasable product approach.
That's value in a purely literal sense, I should add.
Edit: Although in the context of Kickstarter, that skews it a bit, since it's based around *some* people valuing games *very* highly. Similarly with 'whale'-based F2P titles. My first statement only really applies to the single finished purchasable product approach.
Glass Rebel
Member
What is he supposed to do in interviews?
Damn the man for speaking his mind. He should shut up and go to his basement to code.
This comparison is dumb on multiple levels, not the least of which is output.
I'd rather the game be announced later with (at least) a reasonably solid release date than a repeat of Half-Life 2. While, as a Half-Life fan myself, I understand the frustration, from Valve's perspective I don't see the sense in announcing the game prematurely just to appease disgruntled fans when there'll either be no release date attached at all or something tentative that's liable to slip.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Lol I've never expected the day where I see Nintendo is lumped with Microsoft and Sony as huge,
Never the less I want to see a Western Game developer to enter the Hardware Market
Never the less I want to see a Western Game developer to enter the Hardware Market
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
If big companies have the funds and backing they will always stay relevant
They might be perceived Dinosaurs, but Dinosaurs that survived are still living
I get Gabe's talk and how sometimes the little fish can swerve and change it's motion to the incoming flow, while big behemoth fish have to take a wide turn and most of the time get hit with the initial wave
It's those that survive, that can still make big splashes and still keep gobbling up those little fishes
Someone posted about Hollywood style Industry that is now shaped the gaming Industry and I think that mantra stand true
Few publishers hold the keys and the money, starving artist looking for breaks
Indie stand-outs and revenue streams created by other means
Hell Steam is almost Netflix in a sense, going against the Industry yet being part of the Industry
We'll see who adapts and who dies out (some have shown they might look dead, but have a hidden gem that grants them the Altered Beast "Rise From Your Grave" get out of Death Free card due tosuckers stockholders)
They might be perceived Dinosaurs, but Dinosaurs that survived are still living
I get Gabe's talk and how sometimes the little fish can swerve and change it's motion to the incoming flow, while big behemoth fish have to take a wide turn and most of the time get hit with the initial wave
It's those that survive, that can still make big splashes and still keep gobbling up those little fishes
Someone posted about Hollywood style Industry that is now shaped the gaming Industry and I think that mantra stand true
Few publishers hold the keys and the money, starving artist looking for breaks
Indie stand-outs and revenue streams created by other means
Hell Steam is almost Netflix in a sense, going against the Industry yet being part of the Industry
We'll see who adapts and who dies out (some have shown they might look dead, but have a hidden gem that grants them the Altered Beast "Rise From Your Grave" get out of Death Free card due to
Clay Davis
Member
fair point and I do agree, but at the same time I feel they must be near some level of completion where they have a good idea of when the game will be completed and ready for release.
I hate that valve have started to do what nintendo do, not announce games / not reveal them until a few months or so before release. it's incredibly frustrating, to the point where feelings of indifference toward the series start to set in.
I went through it with duke nukem, I'm currently going through it with legacy of kain / soul reaver and thief and I can feel it coming with half life.
announce the game, show some assets and give the occasional progress update. you appease frustrated fans and you help to build hype / interest in the game with each progress update / asset release.