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PokéBOMB: Pokémon X and Y for 3DS (Coming October 2013 WW) - Lord Fennekin Ascends
- Thread starter ScraftyDevil
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I agree.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I agree we need more Joltiks
Lord_Byron28
Member
Personally, while id like for new types to be introduced I think overhauling the type system would be better. Types such as rock, dragon and bug are non-sensical and redudant. They could also introduce new types and rename others such as placing rock and ground as Earth. Eliminate electric type and introduce plasma as it could cover more possibilities. There are other things they could regroup. Then they could also introduce new types as light. GF would never do that as it might alienate players but I'd prefer they did something like that.
The easiest way to rebalance different types is to change the type chart. Ideally, each type could have 3 weaknesses, 3 types it's strong against and 1 immunity.
Note: I don't know if that makes sense from a mathematical point of view. If anyone knows how to calculate if it is i'll be happy to know.
Note: I don't know if that makes sense from a mathematical point of view. If anyone knows how to calculate if it is i'll be happy to know.
I'm sure if we made a flowchart the schewed type counters would be pretty lopsided. Definately in favor of ground dragon and steel
edit: This is exactly what I needed
http://pokemondb.net/type
Yeah, look at how Steel just soaks up all that damage. Almost everyones attaack is cut in half when attacking steel...
I agree with this conceptually, but I don't think it's something that will ever realistically happen. Completely overhauling the type chart would also mean re-typing all of the 600+ existing pokemon in order to fit the new rules, it would also mean overhauling the whole movelist and type-specific items. It's a huge undertaking, one that would only make the most sense if they were to reboot the franchise altogether and likely cut a lot of pokemon. I just don't think they're willing to do that.
It wouldn't be a terrible idea, but like you said, the current type chart is so deeply rooted in the games that there'd be a lot of pushback.
Dragon and Bug serve specific roles in the game though, so I don't know that they're redundant. Then you have issues like where Rock is weak to Ground, what happens when something like Cradily becomes Earth/Grass and is suddenly doubly resistant to a type it used to be doubly weak against? It's not that it can't be done, but it'd be a gigantic undertaking with nearly 700 of the things now.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah, I agree with just checking the balance of the current typing rather than just adding new types.
With that said I disagree that types need to be removed. They serve an already specific purpose and they just need some tweaking. There is no redundancy - rock itself is different from the "earth itself" ground. Bug, normal and dragon are also fine.
I totally disagree with "having everything be equal". It goes against the idea of how type works and the properties it give. It varies with defensive and offensive viewpoints.
For example: people cry that "Steel" is a broken type, yet it is easily countered with common attacking types. Steel itself is a terrible offensive type since it is only SE to Rock and Ice. Steel's purpose is to be defensive, and even a simple Earthquake, Flamethrower, or Close Combat can destroy it, and attacks like Thunderbolt and Surf deal regular damage.
Same thing with Normal - the purpose of Normal is to be the most neutral type, allowing only Fighting to deal SE to it while being immune to Ghost. Most Normal types are flexible in learning attacks.
Like for instance, Grass right now sucks because many type combinations give it more weaknesses, but most Grass types tend to be either very defensive/supportive that they somehow "counter" the weakness.
With that said I disagree that types need to be removed. They serve an already specific purpose and they just need some tweaking. There is no redundancy - rock itself is different from the "earth itself" ground. Bug, normal and dragon are also fine.
I totally disagree with "having everything be equal". It goes against the idea of how type works and the properties it give. It varies with defensive and offensive viewpoints.
For example: people cry that "Steel" is a broken type, yet it is easily countered with common attacking types. Steel itself is a terrible offensive type since it is only SE to Rock and Ice. Steel's purpose is to be defensive, and even a simple Earthquake, Flamethrower, or Close Combat can destroy it, and attacks like Thunderbolt and Surf deal regular damage.
Same thing with Normal - the purpose of Normal is to be the most neutral type, allowing only Fighting to deal SE to it while being immune to Ghost. Most Normal types are flexible in learning attacks.
Like for instance, Grass right now sucks because many type combinations give it more weaknesses, but most Grass types tend to be either very defensive/supportive that they somehow "counter" the weakness.
Speaking about Normal types... Slaking is fucking broken...
Like holy hell is he fucking tanky. Then using yawn and slack off just makes him impenetrable...
Norman (your dad) was easily the hardest gym leader unless you power leveled on of your pokemon leading up to him in R/S
Lord_Byron28
Member
In what way is normal a light replacement? It has no light based attacks. Moves such as flash, aurora beam, solar beam, light screen, reflect, lunar dance sunny day, etc. would be light based attacks as well as perhaps healing and friendly moves such as heart stamp, return, healing pulse, etc.
Can it be changed so that each type is strong against 3, weak against 3 and immune to 1?
Gamefreaks will never do it because it is too dramatic to change. At least they should give Poison another advantage. Or maybe introduce a weather condition that makes Poison types have an advantage (Acid Rain).
They should definitely add a move that is like Steath Rock and Spikes but heals pokemon when switching in. A move like that will have to be Grass (Healing Seeds?) or Psychic (Energy Field). It will revitalize defensive play and will help counter the overwhelming offensive upgrades of the last two generations (Choice items, weather, special/physical split, ever-increasing base power).
Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT1Cvx_aFDc&list=SPv1EAqcvJFuG-CMLxveY7eNEcse3xXm1a
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
"Light" much like "Sound" is already scattered to different types.
"Light" has no place, in a sense. It can't be the "pureness of hearts" because it is implied that all Pokemon are neutral... and that there is already a counterpart to "Dark" that is "Fighting".
Shouldn't you have a Steel or a Fighting already available by then?
"Light" has no place, in a sense. It can't be the "pureness of hearts" because it is implied that all Pokemon are neutral... and that there is already a counterpart to "Dark" that is "Fighting".
Shouldn't you have a Steel or a Fighting already available by then?
ColtraineGF
Member
Mah, Slaking, as used by Norman, isn't so bad - Protect was my friend that battle.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
And again, Steel is already good enough like that because look at its counters - they are also common offensive attacks. It's a defensive type. There's no need to tweak it. Compare to Rock which is a balanced offense/defense type.
Just give Flying, Ice, Bug, and Poison good SE/NVE typing.
Just give Flying, Ice, Bug, and Poison good SE/NVE typing.
I think the only steel type at that point was Mawile in Ruby, so good luck on that front. Meditite and Makuhita are dotted around the place though.
edit: bah, forgot aron. but he was useless.
I had an aron, but no fighting. So didn't have much offensive strength.
ColtraineGF
Member
Unrelated, but on types, I fiddled with them a bit, and came up with this, somehow.
Based on the five classical elements (Japanese), the types can be extrapolated like so:
Water -> Water, Ice
Fire -> Fire, Electric
Earth -> Ground, Rock, Grass, Poison, Steel
Air -> Flying
Void -> Fighting (chi), Dark (also chi), Psychic (mental), Ghost (spiritual)
Leaving Normal, representing the everyday self, Bug, because of Tajiri's childhood obsession, and Dragon, because RPGs gotta have dragons...
Of course, it could have nothing to do with anything, but I was bored.
Based on the five classical elements (Japanese), the types can be extrapolated like so:
Water -> Water, Ice
Fire -> Fire, Electric
Earth -> Ground, Rock, Grass, Poison, Steel
Air -> Flying
Void -> Fighting (chi), Dark (also chi), Psychic (mental), Ghost (spiritual)
Leaving Normal, representing the everyday self, Bug, because of Tajiri's childhood obsession, and Dragon, because RPGs gotta have dragons...
Of course, it could have nothing to do with anything, but I was bored.
The first time I played through Sapphire, in that battle, my Pelipper knew Protect, so pretty much every attack turn I used Protect, and Surf otherwise.
Lord_Byron28
Member
I meant to say nonsensical or redudant. Dragon and bug don't make sense in how pokemon categorizes different types. Why isnt there mammal typing, bird typing, or bacteria typing? Dragons are just overgrown lizards that breathe fire; I don't see why that needed its own type as well as bugs since a lot of their attacks could easily be split up amongst poison, grass and normal. It also opens up typing to a lot more possibilities.
One could make similar arguements against rock, dragon and bug.
I disagree as light as in light based moves I think could be good as well as it adopting the pure stereotype. Also, dark uses mishievous/"bad" attacks. The whole all pokemon are pure of heart bs comes from the anime not the games as I think the games take a more natural approach where they are viewed as animals not creatures with an inate goodness. The pokedex entries directly dispute that as well with drifloon carrying children into the underworld.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I want new news.(((
Probably won't get any till February 12th (when CoroCoro will leak probably), and that's assuming there won't be a bit of an info drought since the game's been revealed earlier than usual for Pokemon.
I thought the exact same, hehe
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Normal seems to fit with most mammalians. Bird is already flying in a sense too. Rock is different from the Ground itself.
Pure of heart = neutral, not good or evil. That's why I brought up Fighting as a counter to Dark.
Yeah, most of the issues I had with the balance in typing has changed over time with new moves and other mechanics, or quirky new type combinations. I'm not in a rush to see things change because GF has a tendency to correct themselves as they move forward.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
So what's this Chespinirito thing?
I somehow missed this... It's incredible!!!
Yep. One of my favorite pieces of fan art so far (probably only behind the assassin one).
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Steel's two problems are when you mix it with other types, you get something with good offense covered by eleventy billion resists giving it survivability or more options for defensive moves again covered by those eleventy billion resists. Then there's the fact it's weak to three powerful offensive types, fueling stratification.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I dunno, most of the Steel combos I've seen are easy to take down. And said three powerful types are the common ones anyway.
In any case I agree with Berordn that GF generally wisens up with each gen for moves and type combo.
In any case I agree with Berordn that GF generally wisens up with each gen for moves and type combo.
I think im going to make myself an avy with it.
kairiceres
Neo Member
....I couldn't resist.
Anyone wantz?
I'll take it thanks!
I figured you would, heh. Enjoy.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I WANT NEWWWWWWSSSSS
Deified Data
Banned
Types are fine the way they are. If further balancing is necessary it needs to take the form of new techniques and abilities.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
YOU'RE SLOWING DOWN!
I'm so sorry, I take that back. Please, take me back.
I'm going crazy without any news *eye twitches*
You should embrace the Chespin. Then, you'll be chill.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
I prefer Fennekin, but Chespin is also fantastic...
freezamite
Banned
Well, I think that before adding new types, they must add some new type combinations. I mean, Gen 5 was all about balancing the until-then under represented Bug type.
But I think that if Gen 6 brings more pokemon with some atypical combinations like fire-psychic (we've seen ghost-fire and ghost-water in Gen 5) and some new pokemon evolutions to past gen pokemons it will be enough for me in terms of innovation.
And of course, new attacks and new abilities. I can't think of a new meta-game addition to perfect the battle system. Maybe that the status-changing attacks get affected by their types?
But I think that if Gen 6 brings more pokemon with some atypical combinations like fire-psychic (we've seen ghost-fire and ghost-water in Gen 5) and some new pokemon evolutions to past gen pokemons it will be enough for me in terms of innovation.
And of course, new attacks and new abilities. I can't think of a new meta-game addition to perfect the battle system. Maybe that the status-changing attacks get affected by their types?
ColtraineGF
Member
As a note, we already have Psychic/Fire (Victini).
If new mechanics are introduced, they'll be showcased with new moves/abilities as usual (Acrobatics being one for triple battles, for example), with extra additions on top of existing moves. That's something I can't wait to see, really.
As far as Fire/Psychic goes, I guess we could certainly use more, but Gen 5 did give us two (Victini and that fire ape's zen form).
ColtraineGF
Member
Someday, I'm actually gonna use my RageCandyBar...
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