StereoVsn
Gold Member
If it wasn't, then one or more of the smaller Chinese vendors would have cut cost.
Whether the issue is TSMC, AMD, or whatever; all Z2 E devices run a lot more $$$ vs Z1E.
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Whether the issue is TSMC, AMD, or whatever; all Z2 E devices run a lot more $$$ vs Z1E.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah, it seems like MSI is doing small runs with all their stuff
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Really good point. That is interesting. PS has stated that it costs them more money for someone to play a game streaming through PSN, than if the person straight up bought the game directly.
I wonder if the same applies to Xbox.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
MS already has a massive infrastructure in place for cloud things.
kevboard
Member
the price of the Legion Go 2 isn't all that surprising to me, given what an overengineered monster that thing is.
I think most of the other vendors have to have their prices this high because they only sell a very small amount, so all that R&D money has to be recouped with a few thousand sales.
Topher
Identifies as young
I started cloud development a few years ago. Nothing massive, but it is absurdly expensive, even on a small scale.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I can't believe GAF went through a time period where we used to argue if American tariffs were actually increasing the price of gaming hardware
. Yall remember that crazy period a few months ago?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Could you explain what you mean by this? Me and many others on GAF in general don't really understand the inside of why it's so expensive. Could you explain it a little bit? Especially considering we often hear podcasters say that streaming is the future of gaming and that consoles won't exist beyond the PS6 generation.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Servers cost money and electricity to run.
Topher
Identifies as young
For my apps, I just specify the resources like CPU cores, memory, storage, etc. So I'm using existing stuff in the data center and it is still a lot of money. For PlayStation, they have to put PS5 units or blades into the datacenter. So that isn't just computer resources. We are talking about dedicated space in racks for Sony in Amazon's data centers around the world. I can't imagine how much that costs, but we ain't talking about shared resources like what I use. Then on top of that is usage. I'm just sending raw data back and forth where gaming is sending a shitton of images and I'm betting that bandwidth ain't cheap. That's a guess on my part though. I'm taking what I know about my cloud experience and scaling up, if that makes sense. I could have some of it wrong, but either way, I can definitely see how this shit is expensive.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Okay, that's interesting and makes sense. But even looking at what you just outlined from a high-level perspective, it seems clear to me that streaming-only gaming can't be the ultimate solution or the primary pathway for gaming. Even beyond 2030.
The logistics of operating games at scale don't appear to hold up financially for corporations in the long run. This is fundamentally different from what's expected with streaming music, TV shows, and movies.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Companies are just looking to exit the traditional console stage in any ways they can with handhelds becoming the go-to device. PC and Nintendo were both way ahead of the curve, with both MS and Sony behind it, and now they're trying to catch up to relevance.
It seems they can't ditch their old clunky and stationary heavies fast enough.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But the money is saying exiting the traditional console stage isn't making them all the real money. The Switch is almost as traditional as it gets. The Switch and Switch 2 could technically stay docked for 10 straight years and be used as a traditional stationary console, and that gamer would be none the wiser.
Less not try to make the Switch and Switch 2 something that it's not.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
I'm just saying that's what is happening in the industry. PlayStation is rumoured to have a handheld in the works, people are wondering if Xbox will ever release more traditional hardware, and even though PC handhelds sell like shit, it hasn't stopped them from trying the market.
Just seems like most people don't want the heavies any more.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But people are literally still buying many PS5s. So many that Sony made the PS5 Pro and is rumored to be making a standard\big clunky PS6 console. And many are still gaming on their even bigger and clunkier gaming PCs.
So, is it possible that you're confused?...
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Maybe you're the one "confused" about where gaming is heading?
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Microsoft is "exiting" console space due to their own incompetence and they will have a dual use console/PC (in multiple configurations). Handheld is just one of the options.
Microsoft also has 2nd biggest datacenter environment in the world, they own very big "data pipes", they have the expertise and equipment to run cloud based systems at the least cost possible compared to Nintendo and Sony.
Sony is "rumored" to have a a handheld, perhaps to act as a cheaper/hybrid device as they try to ape Nintendo. They will still have PS6 a proper main console. Steaming for them is much more expensive because they simply don't have the data centers, bandwidth connections or expertise that MS has. Like
Topher
pointed out, cost can add up quickly. Nintendo went to hybrid because they failed at selling a proper console for three generations with N64, GameCube and WiiU. And Wii sales tapered out quick once the novelty wore off.
It made sense for Nintendo to double down on their strength in handheld and get out from competing on normal console level.
And cloud costs can indeed blow up fast if you are "renting" from hyperscalers.
Co-loc costs are also increasing like crazy thanks to AI boom. It's hard to get decent datacenter space at reasonable price.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why can't gaming be both\all? Why must it be one or the other?
Topher
Identifies as young
I agree. People who think cloud gaming will replace local don't really have a good grasp of what is involved, I think. This isn't like Netflix where microservices enable all these video streams to billions of users. You've got a have a dedicated console (reconfigured for blades) in the cloud for every user. And when PS6 and next Xbox come around, they have to start replacing PS5 and XBS blades with new ones. This is not going to replace local gaming.
Nah....they are trying to diversity. No company is looking to actively shut down a stream of revenue. They are looking to add more. Even Xbox, as dire shape as they are in, have another console in the works. Handhelds are only the "go to" device for Nintendo and that has been the case for many years even before Switch.
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reinking
Gold Member
A company is looking to exit the traditional console space. Nintendo was smart and made a pivot to rely on a market they dominate. Sony has had handhelds in the past. I believe Sony's move to make a handheld has a little to do with the positive reception to the Portal and the fact that they will not have to rely on creating separate games for it if it is going to run PS5 games. I don't think it has anything to do with them wanting to leave a market in which they just took control of. At least not any time soon.
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demigod
Member
Microsoft is "exiting" console space due to their own incompetence and they will have a dual use console/PC (in multiple configurations). Handheld is just one of the options.
Microsoft also has 2nd biggest datacenter environment in the world, they own very big "data pipes", they have the expertise and equipment to run cloud based systems at the least cost possible compared to Nintendo and Sony.
Sony is "rumored" to have a a handheld, perhaps to act as a cheaper/hybrid device as they try to ape Nintendo. They will still have PS6 a proper main console. Steaming for them is much more expensive because they simply don't have the data centers, bandwidth connections or expertise that MS has. Like
Nintendo went to hybrid because they failed at selling a proper console for three generations with N64, GameCube and WiiU. And Wii sales tapered out quick once the novelty wore off.
It made sense for Nintendo to double down on their strength in handheld and get out from competing on normal console level.
And cloud costs can indeed blow up fast if you are "renting" from hyperscalers.
Co-loc costs are also increasing like crazy thanks to AI boom. It's hard to get decent datacenter space at reasonable price.
Same dance every time, SonyToo.
lastmessiah
Member
Doesn't mean he's wrong. The margins are not great in hardware, nowhere near software and services. Even NVIDIA is making a push to cloud with GeForce Now, and it is out of beta and the best on offer.
mayham2199
Member
Sure but at the end of the day the hardware is what's bringing in the most customers. These companies are providing a way to bring in more users but they all recognize where the majority for their revenue is coming from and it's not the cloud. Well I can't speak for Nvidia but MS/Sony/Nintendo.
Topher
Identifies as young
Except he is wrong. All three console makers will continue to make console into yet another generation. So this theory that they are looking to "exit the traditional console stage in any ways they can" just isn't true.
Cloud compliments local. It doesn't replace it. Nvidia's cloud doesn't replace their GPU sales. I don't understand this notion folks have that it must be either or.
TrebleShot
Member
People
Have access and have been using the full screen experience on the MSI claw through the insider program on windows and apparently its excellent.
Have access and have been using the full screen experience on the MSI claw through the insider program on windows and apparently its excellent.
Topher
Identifies as young
Is Microsoft rolling this out to other handhelds sooner than expected?
I checked Xbox's Twitter account, and the number of likes clearly shows that it's not that it's better, but rather Xbox's current focus as a company.
I find it curious how this happens.
The GamePass games tweet has 4,000 to 5,000 likes, as does the "Xbox" Rog Ally tweet.
The rest of the tweets all have 400 to 500 likes.
If it were any Twitter account, I'd say some of their tweets have bots for engagement and others don't.
I find it curious how this happens.
The GamePass games tweet has 4,000 to 5,000 likes, as does the "Xbox" Rog Ally tweet.
The rest of the tweets all have 400 to 500 likes.
If it were any Twitter account, I'd say some of their tweets have bots for engagement and others don't.
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That's what it looks like, and seeing how it seems to be working really well already... Here's an example running on an original ROG Ally... Shadows of Tom Raider gaining a good chunk of performance.
demigod
Member
I don't think the xfans took him back. He's off to Nintendo now.
Bry0
Member
It's in the next windows feature rollout. It's just a toggle in the windows gaming settings. Should be usable on a living room tv too i would think.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Ellis
Member
That borderline passive aggressiveness
An Xbox with shader compilation and stutter like any other PC build, including mine. Pretty sure my SX doesn't have that feature.
Strix1 is a massive overkill chip for a handheld, it's 10% larger than the Switch 2 SoC while being on a node ~4x more expensive. Other costs like board, cooling, battery and are also high due to trying to cram this laptop-designed SoC into a handheld.
The reason Steam Deck is cheaper and PS6 handheld will be cheaper is due to using an actual handheld-optimized chip.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Interesting. I need to dig up my Ally and find the OG drive as I have Bazzite installed I think.
kevboard
Member
the original ROG Ally will profit from this a lot I bet. that system is pretty memory starved, which they fixed with the X.
I wonder if previously stuttery games that ran out of memory will be actually playable on it now.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So how would you tell Sony to replace the $11+ Billion a year they make on hardware every year? Corporate suits that oversell "margins" but ignore revenue should be fired on the spot!!!
SomeNorseGuy
Gold Member
This news completly eluded me, for a moment I thought you guys werre talking about the new "aggregated gaming library" that had a rollout recently. But it must be this we're talking about.
Let us know if you get it working on the Legion Go.
Topher
Identifies as young
That's like saying you don't see the market for the RTX5000 series GPUs because "anyone interested in a GPU already owns a 4000 series GPU"
Or saying that no further PS5s would be sold because everyone who was interested already owns one.
while the deck is getting increasingly long in the tooth, people are having great success running recent AAA titles on the Z1E handhelds, and this is a bit more powerful.
You may have missed the news that FSR4 now works on RDNA 3 GPUs, albeit not as well as on RDNA4 GPUs. People have it running on Z1E Ally and Legion Go. It'll run on this one. Additionally MS is using the NPU for AutoSR which will improve visual quality.
anyone who is upgrading has an older handheld to sell off to offset the cost. Where did you get '800 euro upgrade' from?
You'd have to go through life without an ass, then, because this will most certainly sell better than the previous Ally X.
If the rumored price is real, it's the exact same price as the existing Z1E Ally X. And the price has tarriffs baked in already since the Ally X launched at $799 and only rose to $899 after Trump started his Tarriff wave.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
ZehDon
Member
A ~30% performance improvement is quite impressive. Not enough to warrant replacing my Steam Deck, but a very solid step in the right direction.
Topher
Identifies as young
Nothing like this that I recall
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BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
"Leaked" by "windows enthusiasts"
Sure jan