Support NeoGAF

[grimshawish]

Must be a typo, no way that's true.

I still think hes talking devkits. Threads moving very fast :/

Microsoft had their documentation and kits out way before Sony did.

Likely not true internally. Sony developed hand in hand with first party; MS with third party.

 

[pixlexic]

thats right guys, too much ram is bad. if only ps360 had shipped with 256 mb...

Totally not the context of my post.

 

[shinra-bansho]

About 66 percent more efficient, give or take.

So, forgive/correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you wrote, but you're saying that the secret awesomesauce turns 12 CU/1.2 TFLOPS into 20 CU/2 GFLOPS?

 

[Durante]

Microsoft had their documentation and kits out way before Sony did.

I'd say so, at least from a hardware perspective.

.

 

[Jadedx]

you're probably right. I really wish I could think of a good reason for them using that much ram for the OS.



not wanting that, was jusy hoping we'd get more info about the 3gb reserved for the OS.

Its bullshit, I have not insider info, but 3gb is bullshit. Windows 8 only needs 1gb, 720 wont need 3 times as much.

 

[Des0lar]

Orbis = Shaun of the Dead
Durante = Hot Fuzz
Wii U = Paul

 

[apana]

People saying this will be as a significant leap as going from the ps2 to ps3 will be disappointing. We would need something along the lines of going from flat shaded textures to normal maps to make as much of an impact.

What people should expect from nextgen anyway.

- Cleaner IQ
- higher res textures and models
- Less loading, less intersected levels (door opening, elevator)
- extra physics / effects like UE4 particles

That's about it. Everything else will be icing on the cake and compromised in different areas

So more of an evolution and less of a revolution. I guess that is to be expected in the generation afer a major shift. I was expecting what he have seen so far to be the bare minimum but perhaps that is not the case.

 

[MCD]

Orbis - Naruto
Durango - The Sauce
Wii U - Konohamaru

 

[Paradicia]

Not trying to be a party pooper here but what makes these specs fully credible? Everyone seems to be jumping to gun. It seems to be just a spec list and diagram that can be done on ms word.

 

[Can Crusher]

So what you're saying is the Wii U is better than the Durango?

Hobbit was clearly the worst tolkien film.

 

[Kimawolf]

1. Your pc is just running current gen games with a higher resolution and prettier effects. That 2.5 TFs won't be really used until next gen comes out.


2. I'm like 99% sure that Sony's first party will deliver.

Well I hope you are right, cause ya I have a 660TI in my PC right now and i fail to see these life like CG graphics and anything that would impress anyone who played on 360. Granted Witcher 2 is very impressive with everything running on high, i just don't see how it will "impress" like some folks in the other rumor thread seem to be claiming.

 

[Spongebob]

If AMD really could make their CUs 66% more efficient, they would be pissing all over NVIDIA.

 

[ghst]

About 66 percent more efficient, give or take.

i hope you ran a polygraph on whatever source fed you that.

 

[op_ivy]

I still think hes talking devkits. Threads moving very fast :/

of course he is. also, the entire point of a dev kit is to replicate the power in the retail unit.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Microsoft had their documentation and kits out way before Sony did.

When did Microsoft deliver the first kits?

 

[Sky Chief]

8 CPU cores

8GB RAM

Windows 8

8|

An 8 is a sideways ∞ like infinity. Xbox ∞/Loop/Infinity or something

 

[statham]

Orbis = Shaun of the Dead
Durante = Hot Fuzz
Wii U = Paul

thumbs up.

 

[funkystudent]

Microsoft had their documentation and kits out way before Sony did.

Thats probably because the next xbox was a 2012 system that got pushed to 2013 so they had to have things out in devs hands earlier.

I get the feeling the ps4 was always a 2013 system so they were always behind with libraries and tools and stuff.

 

[derFeef]

Orbis = Shaun of the Dead
Durante = Hot Fuzz
Wii U = Paul

Vita = Scott Pilgrim?

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

My reply was to a poster asking if his specific PC was going to be enough for the coming generation. It's not just about the devkits, though they are indicative. Developers are excited. They want to talk. And they have been in ways that I can't in good faith publish or talk about publicly. I'll just say that you've seen next gen games already, and developers aren't putting all that effort in for the PC version. That's what they think they can do by launch-ish. Will every game look like that? No, because a lot of games will be ports or projects moved from current gen to next-gen.

 

[KennyLinder]

When did Microsoft deliver the first kits?

The Mac ones? Fucking ages before. Ages.

 

[pixlexic]

Its bullshit, I have not insider info, but 3gb is bullshit. Windows 8 only needs 1gb, 720 wont need 3 times as much.

It does have hdmi in so its not far fetched to assume maybe you can do something like record TV while playing a game? Remember this is a media box as while as a game machine.

 

[BlastProcessing]

The thing that people should keep an eye on moving forward for both Orbis and Durango are manufacturing issues. I don't think either will be delayed, but one or both could see, say, a CU or CPU core disabled to improve yields, or, less likely, more CUs enabled because of better than expected yields.

Why would we expect low yields? Both CPUs and GPUs seem to be based on mature architectures. These seem to be a "tock" more than a "tick" going by the public leaks. 32nm fab is pretty proven at this point. Yields should be fine. Have you heard otherwise?

 

[LightOfTruth]

So if Orbis>Durango:

Orbis = Nas
Durango = Jay Z
WiiU = Big Sean

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Hobbit was clearly the worst tolkien film.

You can't have seen TTT, shit is dull as stale dishwater. But to be fair TTT in book form is boring as fuck too.

 

[grimshawish]

Hobbit was clearly the worst tolkien film.

Two Towers was easily. Great battle sure...but things like the wargs, ugh no.

of course he is. also, the entire point of a dev kit is to replicate the power in the retail unit.

So RAM is the only likely change from the retail to dev kit then?
Thanks.

My reply was to a poster asking if his specific PC was going to be enough for the coming generation. It's not just about the devkits, though they are indicative. Developers are excited. They want to talk. And they have been in ways that I can't in good faith publish or talk about publicly. I'll just say that you've seen next gen games already, and developers aren't putting all that effort in for the PC version. That's what they think they can do by launch-ish. Will every game look like that? No, because a lot of games will be ports or projects moved from current gen to next-gen.

Sorry I've been posting having missed this.

 

[soundahfekz]

Def on board for Oden, Durant seems to be a little underpowered but who knows how it'll shake out

 

[MaulerX]

After looking at the diagram, is that an extra "compute" unit (lower left) that somehow assists the CPU/GPU? They're all blue so I'd assume they have something to do with each other. I ask because the only extra "compute" unit I've heard of was for the Orbis.

 

[Reiko]

So if Orbis>Durango:

Orbis = Nas
Durango = Jay Z
WiiU = Big Sean

PC= Rahkim

 

[aegies]

So, forgive/correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you wrote, but you're saying that the secret awesomesauce turns 12 CU/1.2 TFLOPS into 20 CU/2 GFLOPS?

I have no idea. I'm just talking about the efficiency targets Microsoft has for the GPU hardware in comparison to this generation. Throwing out teraflop numbers isn't doing anyone any favors, since the devkits (for both) are rocking in excess of 3.5.

Why would we expect low yields? Both CPUs and GPUs seem to be based on mature architectures. These seem to be a "tock" more than a "tick" going by the public leaks. 32nm fab is pretty proven at this point. Yields should be fine. Have you heard otherwise?

Because both systems are pushing SOCs really really far, and they're not mature manufacturing processes at all. Also, they're both huge chips.

I'ma call bullshit on 8xxx series being 60 percent more efficient too...
This is AMD we are talking about.

I hope you are right aegis but there is just no fucking way.
If it is then I'm lining up for a hd 8950 on day one to replace my trusty 6870.

Again, talking about console hardware, not desktop hardware. Console hardware has already always been more efficient at game code than PC hardware, because it's tweaked for gaming, and code is written to a specific platform.

 

[longdi]

sounds like weakbox.

I hope Kaz goes krazy and says to ND/Epic/Square, "fuck it! here is your 8gb gddr5, unleash hell!"

 

[i-Lo]

I'd say so, at least from a hardware perspective.

I mean, as it pertains to hardware complexity:
CPU - the same
GPU - Orbis: just a GPU / Durango: "secret sauce"
Memory - Orbis: single, fast pool / Durango: two separate pools

As I said, I'll believe it when I see it.

Didn't the Eurogamer article wrong something about a separate compute module for PS4 and labelled that Orbis' secret jizz?

Also, would you happen to know if a compute module is akin to a compute unit that functions like a core (or was it SPU)?

And finally, are you really buying the whole efficiency talk? It doesn't make sense that Sony will leave performance on the table and will take up the ass as amd just hands ms keys to unlocking the GPU's CUs to 100% efficiency. Also, what does this "efficiency" mean? 100% run time for all the CUs?

 

[SneakyStephan]

I'ma call bullshit on 8xxx series being 60 percent more efficient too...
This is AMD we are talking about.

I hope you are right aegis but there is just no fucking way.
If it is then I'm lining up for a hd 8950 on day one to replace my trusty 6870.

 

[Reiko]

sounds like weakbox.

I hope Kaz goes krazy and says to ND/Epic/Square, "fuck it! here is your 8gb gddr5, unleash hell!"

You really want to see Sony go bankrupt?

 

[Combichristoffersen]

sounds like weakbox.

I hope Kaz goes krazy and says to ND/Epic/Square, "fuck it! here is your 8gb gddr5, unleash hell!"

That would surely unleash Hell

Spoiler

on Sony's financials.

 

[specialguy]

B3D POST

The entire setup reeks of some kind of new tile based/deferred rendering approach along the lines of what makes the PowerVR GPUs so very efficient.

It would also be very scalable (integrated into a PC GPU card, it would basically push crossfire scaling to 100% and solve any micro stuttering issues). It would be the end of huge monolithic GPU chips as we know them.

ITS ALL TRUE GUYS GET OUT YOUR TINFOIL HATS. DURANGO IS INDEED AS POWERFUL AS 3 GTX 680 IN FACT IT EATS THEM FOR BREAKFAST WOW WOW

THE ENTIRE SETUP REEKS OF REVOLUTIONARY I THINK. WOW JUST WOW

 

[Kill Your Masters]

sounds like weakbox.

I hope Kaz goes krazy and says to ND/Epic/Square, "fuck it! here is your 8gb gddr5, unleash hell!"

Sony going YOLO on dat Django

 

[longdi]

You really want to see Sony go bankrupt?

they wont go bankrupt, just $499-599 again and along the way kicks some xss!

 

[Blablurn]

You really want to see Sony go bankrupt?

When you are already on the way out, at least go out with a BANG!

 

[Spongebob]

I have no idea. I'm just talking about the efficiency targets Microsoft has for the GPU hardware in comparison to this generation. Throwing out teraflop numbers isn't doing anyone any favors, since the devkits (for both) are rocking in excess of 3.5.



Because both systems are pushing SOCs really really far, and they're not mature manufacturing processes at all. Also, they're both huge chips.

Oh so you're talking in comparison to this generation, thought you were talking about Orbis CUs vs Durango CUs.

 

[DerZuhälter]

Ok some quick questions to our tech gurus here because my understanding is quite limited.

In terms of hardware and architecture I guess BC is off the table, right?
Multiplattform games should be without the grave differences we had in our first gen games since CPU/GPU and general architecture are quite similar, right?
Ports to PC could, especially since W8 kernel is rumored for Durango, be done faster and better optimized?

 

[specialguy]

After looking at the diagram, is that an extra "compute" unit (lower left) that somehow assists the CPU/GPU? They're all blue so I'd assume they have something to do with each other. I ask because the only extra "compute" unit I've heard of was for the Orbis.

confused me too, those are just the keys to the chart. eg all the compute units are blue on the diagram, etc.

 

[charsace]

sounds like weakbox.

I hope Kaz goes krazy and says to ND/Epic/Square, "fuck it! here is your 8gb gddr5, unleash hell!"

That would be an expensive board.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Throwing out teraflop numbers isn't doing anyone any favors, since the devkits (for both) are rocking in excess of 3.5.

Nice!

 

[cyberheater]

I have no idea. I'm just talking about the efficiency targets Microsoft has for the GPU hardware in comparison to this generation. Throwing out teraflop numbers isn't doing anyone any favors, since the devkits (for both) are rocking in excess of 3.5.

Over 3.5TFlops. Jesus 0_o

 

[Jadedx]

It does have hdmi in so its not far fetched to assume maybe you can do something like record TV while playing a game? Remember this is a media box as while as a game machine.

That would be something, but A dvr does not need that much ram.

 

[derFeef]

That would be an expensive board.

And not very efficient since nothing in that box can profit from that.

 

[Reiko]

That would be an expensive board.

SEGA Model 4

Time to go batshit insane again.

 

[Putty]

Orbis - John Williams
Durango - Jerry Goldsmith
Wii U- Steve Jablonsky

 

[Gorillaz]

Kanye West album ranking
Orbis- Graduation
Durango-College dropout
WiiU- 808s and heartbreak