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[qizah]

You're entitled to your opinion. But at this point, does "Wii U is getting a Zelda game" actually surprise you? That's the issue. It's this total familiarity with what your new console is going to get from the second you buy it. You can be sure the top PS4 and 720 titles won't be as close to the PS3 and 360 ones as Wii U will be to Wii.

It's this reinforced familiarity that makes Nintendo consoles not feel as exciting as they once were. This isn't the N64 where every franchise (mostly) was reborn.

You're correct, most people know that a new Zelda is coming. That wasn't the most exciting part for me about the Nintendo Direct stream. The ideas presented in the presentation about the new Zelda are far more interesting. It's just Nintendo telling directly to their fanbase their plans is pretty damn cool. They didn't have to tell people that a new 3D Mario and Mario Kart will be playable at E3. They didn't have to tell people Wind Waker HD was coming this fall, but they did.

It goes back to Iwata's commitment to appealing to the core audience. The fact that they're collaborating with developers like Atlus and Namco Bandai is a great start. The fact that they showed the Monolith Soft game on the North America stream is a great start, as to me that's an indicator that without a doubt, that game will come to North America.

It's not perfect by any means. The Wii U is lacking third party support, especially from Western studios. There's no GTAV, Tomb Raider, BioShock Infinite, etc on the platform. It's a problem, but there's a lot of 'good' to be taken away from the Nintendo Direct presentation that isn't directly tied to "here's a new game". It's their direction going forward that's most exciting, because if they do it right it could be great.

 

[evangd007]

Yes because when you keep using the same franchise every gen eventually it because fatigued. It's been 30 years of Zelda. It doesn't matter if there's been 7 CODs in 7 years because people have been playing them for 7 years. People have played Zelda games all their lifetimes. That's the difference.

Zelda doesn't need to die, but it can't be the only big, triple A Nintendo game in terms of production values. It is not wrong to expect something new from them that is on the level of their traditionally "big" franchises. As it is, any new IPs they launch are B-tier games with B-tier aspirations.

About you production values comment, let me copy what I said in the X trailer thread, in reference to Xenoblade:

In Nintendo-like fashion, they did not go all-out in promoting a new IP and instead let it succeed or fail on its own merits. It succeeded, and thus the next installment gets the big game marketing treatment. Nintendo doesn't attempt to make "manufactured hits" through marketing.

If you are unfamiliar with the term "manufactured hit", think Homefront or Dante's Inferno. Situations like that.

In addition, most Nintendo games add interesting new mechanics in each installment, and they are not afraid of throwing out previous standards and mechanics to make room for new ones. Galaxy dispensed with the more open exploration aspects of previous 3D Mario games (a huge plus in my book) and added the gravity mechanic, which may be thrown to the wayside in the next 3D Mario if EAD thinks its been taken to its logical gameplay conclusion and needs to step aside for a new mechanic.

ITT: people don't know the difference between publishing and developing.

So does inFamous not count as a Sony IP? It was made by Sucker Punch before they were acquired. What about Crytek/Microsoft and Ryse? This argument is silly.

How come I never see "predictable formula" in any cod, AC, or Halo reviews?

There are enough explosions and Michael Bay to disguise the formula.

 

[teeny]

My point is simple: the big, marquee games on Nintendo platforms remain Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, Smash Bros and, to a lesser extent, the Mii filled party games. They're the games Nintendo have the biggest hopes for. I'm not dismissing the potential quality of Bayonetta 2 or whatever. But it's this familiarity with the core "big titles" that I feel is harming Nintendo for a lot of people like me, who's played pretty much every Mario and Zelda game.

What would you have them do?

 

[KingFire]

AC isn't a 30 year old series. As for COD and Halo reviews, you didn't see that complaint because you obviously chose to ignore it. Halo 4 was ripped to pieces in numerous reviews for the very same thing Zelda was given low scores by some outlets.

I was talking about GameSpot in that post.

 

[Majukun]

AC isn't a 30 year old series. As for COD and Halo reviews, you didn't see that complaint because you obviously chose to ignore it. Halo 4 was ripped to pieces in numerous reviews for the very same thing Zelda was given low scores by some outlets.

is the number of games that matter,not how old the series is.
and a large number of games in a short time is even worse,that is what is called "franchise fatigue"

 

[meta4]

I would really like Nintendo to create games in dark and mature settings. It would be cool to see Nintendo's take on those themes.

 

[Fragamemnon]

They aren't trapped in any way and their overall output shows it. Though I can see how even a semi-interested observer could say so when you have cynical, nostalgia-minded products like Nintendoland headling a new console release.

 

[Baconsammy]

Same here (well, the GF bought me the Wii U as a gift). Did you purchase those systems expecting something totally outside of what you've received thus far, because in almost every post you seem as someone who's been completely blindsided by their approach this generation...?

I think everyone was blindsided by Nintendo's incompetent approach to everything related to the Internet. I'm not alone there. I don't care that they regurgitate the same games over and over for 30 years. It's the one and only reason I buy their hardware still. I don't think it's bad that I expect more from them when it comes to making hardware, providing competent online solutions, or engendering third party support.

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I don't feel like that did anything special to the formula. In fact I thought it was a big regression since it wasn't open world and you couldn't tackle the stars in any order you wanted to.

however, that "regression" led to more focused, almost universally BETTER level design. open world is not always superior.

 

[MrT-Tar]

I would really like Nintendo to create games in dark and mature settings. It would be cool to see Nintendo's take on those themes.

What about Fire Emblem though. The series has rape, incest, genocide, racially driven conquest, etc. I would personally consider that 'dark and mature'

 

[saichi]

In all seriousness though I do agree that this sort of criticism is a bit overblown. They release these games because they're proven sellers. Whenever the other two have proven multi-plat games they never retire those either. I do agree that out of all though that they are definitely the least willing to experiment with all-new IPs though, and that is a problem.

*Cue some idiot with Monoliftsoft.gif*

That's not really a Nintendo-created IP though. Neither are the Op Rainfall games. The article is I guess talking about Miyamoto/EAD making a big new IP with mass appeal, like the ones the company created seemingly at will back in the day.

I guess Wii Sports/Wii Fit are conservative titles and not big sellers... so are Nintendogs/Brain Age/Friend collection.

EDIT:

I hate Assassins Creed. But when people have been playing it for a single console generation there's less fatigue than when it shows up every generation.

really? The only reason other companies don't release old IP in new generations is because those games don't sell enough to justify the cost anymore. It's not because they don't want to. As far yearly release cycle in one gen is less fatigue than one title per gen, you do remember how Tony Hawk/Guitar Hero/Rock Band series died, right?

 

[Derrick01]

I would really like Nintendo to create games in dark and mature settings. It would be cool to see Nintendo's take on those themes.

I don't think they know how. That's something that is completely out of their element and philosophy. They'd have to do a situation where they hired someone else to do it like Silicon Knights and Eternal Darkness.

 

[Majukun]

I would really like Nintendo to create games in dark and mature settings. It would be cool to see Nintendo's take on those themes.

 

[MarkusRJR]

Explain the major differences between CoD BO1 and CoD BO2.

The basic formula is the same.

Those are two games within a 2 year period. At best you could say the CoD formula really started this generation versus the 3 generations it's been the same with Zelda (I could even say it's been the same since the original Zelda but that'd be a stretch). Even then Black Ops 2 has been getting criticized for it's similarity to prior CoD games, along with Halo 4.

 

[Flame Lord]

wow. really? why is that? is it because of the same old gameplay? same old looking graphics? or is it that same old mechanics that gives you fatigue? i want to know

Probably because they've been playing the one Mario game released for years and when they get the next one there's such a small amount of change (besides Sunshine) that they can get just as fatigued as someone playing Assassin's Creed.

 

[BGBW]

I don't feel like that did anything special to the formula. In fact I thought it was a big regression since it wasn't open world and you couldn't tackle the stars in any order you wanted to.

Funny. I thought that was progress along with 3D Land. They looked at the 3D platformer formula and rewrote it again. Everyone was following the Mario 64 model. Nintendo looked at an alternative one.

Linear 3D platformers > Open world platformers

 

[Doctor Decimate]

I would really like Nintendo to create games in dark and mature settings. It would be cool to see Nintendo's take on those themes.

i thought Majora's Mask was pretty "dark and mature". of course, when Nintendo tried to replicate that in Twilight Princess it just felt like they were trying too hard

 

[TAS]

LOL..what a crock of shit. Nintendo is the one every generation that constantly brings something new to the table with their controller interface--starting with the NES to the present day. This translates into new gaming experiences. They could have easily created a carbon copy console of PS360 with tons more horsepower but they chose the path of innovation with the Gamepad. The author seems to totally disregard this fact.

 

[Zarovitch]

I would really like Nintendo to create games in dark and mature settings. It would be cool to see Nintendo's take on those themes.

and don't forget, only corridor, no puzzle, poor boss like Halo or Gear of War. Oh and cinematic to make you forget you not almost nothing in those game.

 

[Mysterious]

It's the other way around. New younger generation are growing up with a new Mario game, another Mario Kart, and another Zelda. Just like you grew up with SMB 1, you brother with Mario kart, an entire generation just grew up with NSMB and Mario Kart 7.

I grew up with Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy, so I agree with this. I almost beat Super Mario World on VC, never played much of SMB 1, 2, 3 beyond the first few levels.

 

[Oersted]

Nintendo should create a shooter and release a new entry every year. The meltdowns would be funny.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Yes and it's baffling to me how their fans not only get excited for but demand another mario kart and smash bros. I agree with gamespot, what else can possibly be done with those games other than roster changes?

How does this even bug you? OH NO! A new Smash Bros game every console. HOW AWFUL! They are clearly milking the franchise!

 

[Barkley's Justice]

They all see it, why can't you?

 

[jay]

This argument has existed for years. It boils down to, "Nintendo doesn't make enough new AAA IPs I like." I agree, but for some reason no company makes enough games specifically for me.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

What would you have them do?

Form working relationships with notable western studios to create new IPs published by Nintendo. They're doing that in Japan fairly well, but to me there's nothing coming from them I see as being a system seller other than the usual Zelda/Mario.

Just so my hypocrisy is clear here; I'm almost certainly buying a Wii U for Wind Waker. I don't dislike Nintendo games at all. I just want more from them.

 

[HK-47]

I don't feel like that did anything special to the formula. In fact I thought it was a big regression since it wasn't open world and you couldn't tackle the stars in any order you wanted to.

You couldnt even do that fully in 64. Galaxy has much more mechanical variety. They "wasted" ideas you could build whole games around on single stars. Open world is overrated anyways. You get better platforming out of more linear design. With 64 they do open world, then Sunshine does open world with a change in core mechanics and mobility then Galaxy does something different by going for a more 2D design with gravity. It wasnt a regression, it just wasnt your preference. Each gen 3D mario has done something very different from its predecessors.

 

[Yamauchi]

GameSpot has a history of employing low quality 'journalists.'

"7.5" is the latest indication. The older dudes will vividly remember "6.8".

The only reason they are anything, or have ever been anything, is because of the cash flow from the site's parent companies, previously CNET and presently CBS Corporation.

 

[Portugeezer]

Nintendo fans are pretty sensitive lately. I don't agree with all of the points made in the article, but the gist of it is certainly true. Don't understand why a conversation can't be had without people falling onto the ground and stomping their feet.

In the last few days we learned that Nintendo invented announcing games, and those happen to be vaporware.

Now Troll McShea decided to remind everyone that Nintendo only ever makes Mario and Zelda games.

 

[FLAguy954]

I love what Nintendo does with its tried and true IPs. I love a new iteration of The Legend of Zelda or Mario Kart every console cycle.

This reminds me of why I like Mobile Suit Gundam so much as well. Here you have an anime series that has existed in a variety of forms and interpretations for over 30 years (Est. 1979), and the series is still going strong because they are always trying new things.

Spoiler

show me some love Gundam-GAF lol

 

[mclem]

Because those games haven't been following the same basic formula since 1998.

The thing is, the time elapsed isn't actually the relevant point, here.

Fun observation:

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
The Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
Skyward Sword

Assassin's Creed
Assassin's Creed II
Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood
Assassin's Creed: Revelations
Assassin's Creed III

There have been exactly as many games released that fit the big-budget 3D Zelda archetype as there have been games released that fit the big-budget Assassin's Creed archetype. And, for that matter, there's a heck of a lot more variety between the Zeldas than there is between the Assassin's Creeds (To be fair to AC, though, there was a *massive* leap from AC1 to AC2, too - but then the series got somewhat mired in that archetype)

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I do think they should start introducing new franchises but keep the big old ones. I think nintendo uses its hardware to create new experiences so they do not feel the need to make new IP's.

 

[Aquamarine]

I would really like Nintendo to create games in dark and mature settings. It would be cool to see Nintendo's take on those themes.

* Fatal Frame 4

* Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem

* Geist

* Majora's Mask

* Twilight Princess

* Fatal Frame 2 Wii Remake

* Metroid Prime

* Metroid Prime 2

* Metroid Prime 3

All Nintendo games with "dark and mature settings."

 

[Mael]

Those are two games within a 2 year period. At best you could say the CoD formula really started this generation versus the 3 generations it's been the same with Zelda (I could even say it's been the same since the original Zelda but that'd be a stretch). Even then Black Ops 2 has been getting criticized for it's similarity to prior CoD games, along with Halo 4.

2 games in 2 year period?
there's more similarity between 2 given CoD than between 2 given nsmb titles!

 

[chubigans]

Really, it's all Nintendo has right now. I don't blame them for relying on their major franchises to get them out of tough spots. It's no different from the rest of the industry.

What hurts, I think, is the lack of 3rd party support or more 1st party support that would normally bring in new and innovative titles to the system. For every Gears of War/COD/Halo/God of War we get on the consoles, we get a Bioshock, Last of Us, Alan Wake, etc. Nintendo has (a) no third parties to do that for them, and (b) are spread pretty thin as it is with 3DS/Wii U support, so they gotta focus on the big hitters.

It's a no win scenario for anyone, minus the people that love their semi-yearly Smash/Mario/Zelda game.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

I disagree with the tone, intent and content of the article. However..

I do think that they should experiment, big, with a completely different design for Zelda and Mario games.

Literally just call them Zelda and Mario.

Zelda is a rich action-RPG with dungeons to explore. There's a boy-wanderer, a girl who has a secret identity, and a power-hungry man. Reset everything else and build a new romance around it.

Mario is a multi-layered environmental platform game set in a strange fantasy world. There's a plucky main character who gains powers, a princess who has abilities of her own, and a troublesome war-like enemy. Reset everything else and build a new romance.

 

[NickMitch]

if those journalists would play more games instead of waiting for their next scoop, all would be fine.
I almost get conspirational. What if all media has the hate for nintendo for using the ND to adress news instead of leaking. I have heard and read a few blogs and podcasts by big gaming sites that states that they feel frustrated by the lack of information shared with them. Plus they are very japanese and westerners dont seem to compute....

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Are people expecting Mario not to jump in the next game?

The problem with Mario isn't the gameplay. Your just not a fan of the genre.
It's a platformer.

It's alright to say the game isn't for you, but you have to at least respect the fact that Nintendo does alot to keep the main platformer fresh.

I'm not a fan of Halo, but I at least respect what its doing/done for gaming. And I'm not gonna complain when I see Master Chief shooting in the sequel.

 

[jmls1121]

I don't think they know how. That's something that is completely out of their element and philosophy. They'd have to do a situation where they hired someone else to do it like Silicon Knights and Eternal Darkness.

Metroid proves you wrong. Some of the darker moments in Zelda proves you wrong.

Regarding the OP, I do not know how these video game "journalists" can make this claim against Nintendo with a straight face, all the while praising annual installments of AssCreed and COD.

And they wonder why Iwata is a better journalist than all of them combined.

Nintendo uses established IPS to introduce innovative gameplay ideas. Most of the industry uses new IPs to add refinement to gameplay ideas that have already been used. I, personally, prefer the former.

 

[jamsy]

I am an adult and have been playing Nintendo games all my life. I would say I qualify as a Nintendo fan as they produce some of my favourite franchises, but I am about level with where my money goes regarding games.

My experiences are the complete opposite to you.

Because I do not play Nintendo games in a vacuum, each time a new installment of Zelda comes along I have already played many many games in other genres, from other developers and on other consoles. As a result, the feeling of playing a new Zelda, Pokemon, Mario, whatever feels like catching up with an old friend over a few of beers.

I could understand feeling fatigue with the franchises if all you do is play the big Nintendo franchises but I suspect this is not the case for the majority of people on this forum and, thus, I dont see how anyone could complain about all of Nintendo's IPs in general.

(Whilst I would quite like it if they stopped relying on Mario to push their hardware - they have a plethora of other franchises to dip in to that could help rather than Mario overload).

I appreciate yours and the others' responses. I'm 27 and by no means an old man, but I've been playing games for a pretty long time.

For me, perhaps I can explain it like this: as a kid, I used to love cartoons. Used to watch them every day. And as a kid, I used to love playing Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie on my N64, collecting all the puzzle pieces and stomping on baddies' heads.

As an adult, I don't watch cartoons anymore. That doesn't mean that cartoons are bad all of a sudden. Just that my tastes have changed. And so as an adult, I'm not interested any longer in the same kind of games I used to love so much. It's clear that Nintendo's franchises (the Marios, the Zeldas, the Pokemons, Donkey Kongs etc) are much more geared towards the younger crowd than Sony's or Microsoft's. And I feel like Nintendo hasn't done all that much to keep people like myself interested in their products.

 

[KimiNewt]

sorry about the list... it's just a copy paste.

Nintendo Gamecube
Luigi's Mansion
Pikmin
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
GiFTPiA
Donkey Konga
Battalion Wars
Geist
Chibi-Robo!
Odama

Nintendo Wii
Art Style
Wii Sports
Excite Truck
Wii Play
Endless Ocean
Wii Fit
Wii Music
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Captain Rainbow
Tact of Magic
FlingSmash
Dynamic Slash
And-Kensaku
Pandora's Tower
Kiki Trick
Xenoblade Chronicles

Wii-Ware
Bonsai Barber
Rock N’ Roll Climber
PictureBook Games: Pop-Up Pursuit
You, Me and the Cubes
Eco Shooter: Plant 530
Snowpack Park
ThruSpace
Line Attack Heroes
Fluidity

Wii-U
P-100
Panorama View
Nintendo Land

Game Boy Advance
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
Napoleon
Kuririn
Stafy
Tomato Adventure
WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$
Drill Dozer
Rhythm Tengoku
bit Generations

Nintendo DS
Polarium
Nintendogs
Jump Super Stars
Electroplankton
Clubhouse Games
Magnetica
Elite Beat Agents
Hotel Dusk: Room 215
Trace Memory
Master of Illusion
Slide Adventure MAGKID
Soma Bringer
Jam with the Band
Fossil Fighters
Style Savvy
Glory of Heracles

Nintendo 3ds
Steel Diver

3DS Ware
Pushmo
Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword
Dillon's Rolling Western
Ketzal's Corridors


sauce:
http://kyoto-report.wikidot.com/forum/t-469495

I removed the entirely irrelevant ones. Bolded the actually relevant ones (continuing franchises or high quality).

 

[Shard]

Oh right, I guess everybody has forgotten that Wind Waker HD is just to tide us over while Nintendo is literally brainstorming on how to reinvent Zelda for the new age.

 

[Currygan]

When I really think about it, literally only Zelda comes to mind as a franchise held down to the point of being uninteresting. Mario has been thoroughly reinvented each generation. Mario Kart doesn't look or play anything like it did on the SNES or N64. Smash Bros. is almost like the CounterStrike of Nintendo, a game where many small changes add up to a drastically different final result, and its not like they don't put a shitload of effort and time into making that happen (whether they succeed is another topic). Metroid looks different from generation to generation, it's in a slump after Team Ninja's effort, but still, it's been reworked like crazy. Pikmin was something very different and new with new characters, and they don't exactly churn those out yearly.

I dunno. I think when people gripe about this they're really just expressing frustration over the state of Zelda.

SS brought a lot of innovations to the franchise, and some really important ones too. I really don't understand why people don't seem to acknowledge the fact and keep saying stuff like "Zelda needs to change"

 

[Clairvoyance]

I think Zelda and NSMB are the two series that actually need some change. Skyward Sword should have been that change for Zelda, but it wasn't. Hopefully Nintendo's "plan" to change Zelda actually pans out this time. NSMB on the other hand is just a cash grab in my mind. I love the older 2D Mario games, but these newer ones are pretty mediocre. Recycling artstyles and music can only carry you so far.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'm out
.

Expected this gif to be the first reply. Nintendo fans now have their very own Killzone2.gif!

 

[Jburton]

Absolutely YES.

100% agree.

The fact the we know there is always going to be a Mario, Mario kart, Zelda and Super Smash Brothers bores the shit out of me in regards to Nintendo and their new hardware.

Wii U launch "can't wait for the new Zelda" ..... "Can't wait for the new Mario" ........... Yawn!

 

[Ninjimbo]

I'm offended by that Zelda comment. It's so wrong that I don't even know where to start.

 

[fernoca]

Serious question - how many of you Nintendo faithful are adults that still enjoy the latest Marios/Pokemons/et al?

Ugh..this kind of stance/question again?

Why does it always come down to that.
Heck, I'm just 30 I've been playing videogames long before many around here were even born.
I work 40+ hours a week, sometimes without days off, pay bill, taxes and my room is full of Nintendo stuff and I'm currently playing Black Ops II...and Pokémon Black Version 2.
And some act is as if I'm not supposed to enjoy Nintendo games because of my age.

 

[MormaPope]

So does inFamous not count as a Sony IP? It was made by Sucker Punch before they were acquired. What about Crytek/Microsoft and Ryse? This argument is silly.

Well, lets look at a list of console exclusive games Microsoft has published. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Studios

If you go down to Software development studios, you'll see a lot of IP's Microsoft published. There's even a list of 3rd party developed games. Compare that to their 1st party output. Creating and funding new IP's is easy, creating an IP that lasts and is successful financially and critically is a different issue altogether.

The bigger issue or rather the main issue for Nintendo is they haven't made a new IP that has the sticking power or popularity of what was created in the past long ago. That could be an issue if they don't constantly deliver on what they develop or publish themselves. Why?

Because the Wii-U isn't getting the abundant amount third party support that the 360/PS3 are getting. It'll be even more messy when all the next gen consoles are released. Nintendo has to rely on it's self and a developer that they trust enough to fund development.

That's not the best place to be in at the moment.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Oh right, I guess everybody has forgotten that Wind Waker HD is just to tide us over while Nintendo is literally brainstorming on how to reinvent Zelda for the new age.

They said that after TP.

 

[FLAguy954]

Expected this gif to be the first reply. Nintendo fans now have their very own Killzone2.gif!

Lol this made me laugh