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GameSpot: Is Nintendo Trapped by Legacy?

  • Thread starter Thread starter qizah
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This is the answer for me. Now don't take this as me defending AC because I'm not talking about that franchise at all, but my first thought when I played Mario Galaxy was "holy shit he has the EXACT same move-set as he did in Mario 64". Not to mention the focus on getting stars to beat up Bowser again.

i think that's what every sequel do, don't change what is not broken and just improved on it. i played the new cod, and guess what the protagonist has a gun and he kills bad guys just like its predecessor.

I explained in an earlier post.

It isn't about every Mario game being the same, it's about the inevitability of a Mario game not being exciting.

that can be said to any game ever, its all about preference of games nowadays. just tell us that you're more inclined to play uncharted 3 than galaxy 2 even though they're more of the same.

Serious question - how many of you Nintendo faithful are adults that still enjoy the latest Marios/Pokemons/et al?

i enjoy game when they are fun to play, i hated mario sunshine but loved galaxy.

Serious question - how many of you Microsoft faithful are adults that still enjoy the latest Halo/Gears of War/Fable/ et al?

also Serious question - how many of you Sony faithful are adults that still enjoy the latest Killzone/God of War/et al?
 
Serious question - how many of you Nintendo faithful are adults that still enjoy the latest Marios/Pokemons/et al?

I just turned 40 and am doing fine by Nintendo. I even thought Skyward Sword did more than enough to begin "refreshing" Zelda and was a crisp, lively and involving experience. (Sorry Tom.)

Like some others have said, I don't play games in a vacuum. It kind of seems as if there's a certain stereotype that has settled in place: the "Nintendo gamer" is some kind of myopic fanboy who literally only plays Mario and Zelda games. Now, to be fair, there are some people who behave as if that's the case. Zelda in particular seems to suffer from fans who, by all outward appearances, have no life between Zelda releases, and become very angry when the next Zelda doesn't change their life and renew gaming.

There are some people who literally only play Super Mario Bros. 3 and spend a lot of time on the internet bitching about how everything else in the world sucks and Nintendo can't make games anymore.

But in my experience there's another kind of person: adults who till enjoy the full width of Nintendo's games tend, in reality, to be people with broad tastes. Almost every adult I know who fully enjoys Nintendo's catalog likes a lot of games. They also tend, make of it what you will, to not be console exclusive players. Most are heavy into PC games as well. Didn't anybody notice in all these Wii U threads, the number of people who mused that a Wii U plus their PC might be the combo they need for some time?

This also could be why the average adult Nintendo fan I am familiar with are not the fans screaming that every Zelda sucks because it's not like their sole favorite Zelda, not going on about how offensive NSMB is because it doesn't have Mario World sprites, and more often than not, actually enjoys the wiimote and motion controls (when done well). Again, broad tastes.

Remember, graphics don't matter it's all about the gammmmmeeeeeeplay.

Most people seem excited because of the scope of the world and at the idea of flying around in a mech; nice graphics don't hurt, but that's not really the point.
 
This is the same guy who gave Skyward Sword a 7.5, citing "predictable formula" as a negative of the game.

iQzs8E45fJtNh.gif


How come I never see "predictable formula" in any cod, AC, or Halo reviews?

Bullshit standards and anti-Nintendo, dare I say anti-japan agenda? What was the deal with all the western media acting like Japanese games suck the last few years? They are full of hivemind bullshit
 
The bigger issue or rather the main issue for Nintendo is they haven't made a new IP that has the sticking power or popularity of what was created in the past long ago. That could be an issue if they don't constantly deliver on what they develop or publish themselves. Why?

i think that speaks more to how difficult it would be to make another Mario or Zelda than the quality of the new IPs they've put out. Pikmin's done pretty well, and yet it's not even close to the success of the "big guns"
 
Why would they leave their legacy in the dust?

how about creating something new? when I mean new, I mean something BIG new

Sega used to create tons of new shit during its Dreamcast tenure, while Nintendo just peddles the same franchise over and over, stuck in 1994 mode.
 
Yes and it's baffling to me how their fans not only get excited for but demand another mario kart and smash bros. I agree with gamespot, what else can possibly be done with those games other than roster changes?

Why is it baffling? If the games are fun, why wouldn't I want more of them? The games review well and sell a lot. Nintendo would be stupid to not make more of em.
 
Yes because when you keep using the same franchise every gen eventually it because fatigued. It's been 30 years of Zelda. It doesn't matter if there's been 7 CODs in 7 years because people have been playing them for 7 years. People have played Zelda games all their lifetimes. That's the difference.

Zelda doesn't need to die, but it can't be the only big, triple A Nintendo game in terms of production values. It is not wrong to expect something new from them that is on the level of their traditionally "big" franchises. As it is, any new IPs they launch are B-tier games with B-tier aspirations.

There's several things wrong with that. Releasing a rehash COD title every year consecutively isn't worse than releasing ONE Zelda title per console over the span of 30 years? Aside from Twilight Princess, which was cross-generational, this seems like some messed up logic. I wonder what you'd say if Nintendo took a relatively new IP and released a sequel year on end?

Second, production values isn't everything, that's the fallacy of Western developers that has seen so many fall recently, but even then, Nintendo has some examples of ambitious new IPs(or resurrected, as the case may be). Kid Icarus Uprising was incredibly ambitions, but owait, handheld, doesn't count. The new game by Monolith? Don't know enough yet, fair enough, but it appears to be ambitious. But hey, let's ignore Xenoblade Chronicles. Pikmin was meant to be a pillar franchise, and it only did reasonably well, so it's been scaled appropriately. Animal Crossing really only started with the Gamecube, and that's been a success....but not a huge one in the West, so again, let's not count it.

I'm not going to argue in the defense of Zelda or Mario Kart's innovation, since they lost their appeal to me after I played a game from each series, but I DO see why people would find it appealing to get a new one. New console, updated graphical experience, and in the case of Zelda, new art style, new atmosphere. The big thing about these series is that you ONLY ever see one per console, with few exceptions. Off the top of my head, none for Mario Kart, and Twilight Princess and early NES Zelda/DS Zelda games.

But to say that Nintendo doesn't make new IPs or innovate, is a blatant lie. People have already posted the list. If you're going to argue that Nintendo doesn't make AAA titles on a regular basis, there's a reason for that; it's not their style, and they don't have to nor want to, and most of Nintendo's fanbase isn't interested in games with overly inflated budgets and failed attempts at maturity.

Nintendo's angle has always been a fun experience, not to wow your socks of with graphics. I personally hate the Wii U, hardware-wise. I don't like the screen. I don't really like many Zelda games outside of Wind Waker, and Mario Sunshine is my favorite 3D Mario game, and don't care all that much for Mario 64 or Galaxy. I'm not a typical Nintendo fan, and I'm not exclusively a Nintendo fan, but I know Nintendo's angle, and I'm not expecting them to break it to appease naysayers.


EDIT: inb4 avatar quote
 
Nintendo created some great characters with Mario, Luigi, Zelda etc.. they created some characters that are able to stand on their own even after many many many many many many many years... They are doing what Aerosmith, U2 ,Metalica etc. are doing in music.. still going strong.. but just like those groups, the Nintendo fans grow older. Here is the basic problem with Nintendo. They need to attract new fans, and I don´t know if Mario and Zelda has the power anymore to make new fans.
I have kids... they own a Nintendo Wii and a Nintendo DS. They are 7 and 9 years old. If I ask them what games they want to play, they say "JUST DANCE" or "Wii sport".. they own Super mario Galaxy 1 and 2 and NSMBWii.. and all mario games ever made for the DS.. But Mario as character just doesn´t have the same impact on them as it did on kids in the 90´s and 00´s .. they have fun playing the games, but they never ask if there is a new Mario game coming ..

I like Mario games.. I like Zelda games.. but not enough to warrant a purchase of a new console.. and my kids (who are growing up as the next generation of gamers) would NEVER ever buy a Nintendo console just becasue it has a Mario or Zelda Game... The Wii sold great, but not because of Mario or Zelda, nope Wii sports and the Wii mote sold that console.. Wii U isn´t going to do the same..
 
I also have to say YES.

I haven't really followed Nintendo since the Gamecube. It just seemed like more of the same thing with every game to me.

I guess I just grew out of the whole Nintendo thing. I really don't have the slightest interest in collecting a trillion coins in the next Mario game or jumping through hoops to get another slingshot in the next Zelda. Been there, done that. And I never thought I'd say that, being a huge Zelda fan back in the day.

And I understand how people argue that oh look, every Assassin's Creed or Halo iteration doesn't bring up anything revolutionary to the formula either...and I'd have to agree. It's hard to explain, but for me those games are serious. They have stories that I could be involved in, characters I can care about. I don't really care about how the princess gets kidnapped by Bowser/Gannon/whomever this time.

I get how these Nintendo games could be fun, but I just can't get excited/interested for them. Which sucks for me also, cause I missed out on things like Xenoblade and Last Story since I never had a Wii.

Serious question - how many of you Nintendo faithful are adults that still enjoy the latest Marios/Pokemons/et al?

I am. Mid 30's, 2 kids, can't wait for the new Nintendo 1st party offerings. To me, they're an institution at this point, like SNL or something... sometimes they lose their way a little bit, but it's always going to be a lot of fun.

And I think for me, when it comes to something like Mario, the gameplay kind of IS the storyline. In Galaxy, for example, the "story" is told by the gameplay concepts you discover and how its rules are established. Then, those rules get stretched and broken and the concepts mutate in surprising ways, especially in Galaxy 2. THAT'S the story. "Bowser stole the Princess again" isn't. It's just a (at this point tongue in cheek) way to set the stage.

Kind of like an old Loony Tunes. "Oh look, the cat got a white stripe painted on her again and now Pepe LePew is stalking her." Well, that wasn't meant to be the purpose of the cartoon, that was just a way to set it up. The real genius is all the visual gags that would unfold in the next five minutes. Mario is the same way: Bowser stole the Princess again, hey now that that's out of the way, let's get started showing you some new mind blowing stuff you've never seen before. The gameplay innovations ARE the storyline.
 
It's not a game they can possibly expect to sell a quarter as well as NSMB. In Nintendo's world it's just a solid niche title for a couple of million worldwide.

What does that matter? A couple of million worldwide all of a sudden is something to fucking scoff at? Sony and Microsoft would kill for the ability to shrug at a game with a million sales potential. That's a big deal, even for Nintendo.

Niche.. Pfftt what the hell?
 
Please do not compare Assassin's Creed to Zelda ever again.

The thing is, the time elapsed isn't actually the relevant point, here.

Fun observation:

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
The Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
Skyward Sword

Assassin's Creed
Assassin's Creed II
Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood
Assassin's Creed: Revelations
Assassin's Creed III

There have been exactly as many games released that fit the big-budget 3D Zelda archetype as there have been games released that fit the big-budget Assassin's Creed archetype. And, for that matter, there's a heck of a lot more variety between the Zeldas than there is between the Assassin's Creeds (To be fair to AC, though, there was a *massive* leap from AC1 to AC2, too - but then the series got somewhat mired in that archetype)
 
that can be said to any game ever, its all about preference of games nowadays. just tell us that you're more inclined to play uncharted 3 than galaxy 2 even though they're more of the same.

I hate Uncharted. I hate Halo. I hate pretty much every big 360 or PS3 exclusive you can think of. You're missing the point I'm making. Nintendo consoles live and die by Nintendo's releases. When they release the same marquee games each gen, it creates a very bland feeling situation. It doesn't matter what Sony and MS do because their platforms aren't defined purely by their lineups.
 
Those are two games within a 2 year period. At best you could say the CoD formula really started this generation versus the 3 generations it's been the same with Zelda (I could even say it's been the same since the original Zelda but that'd be a stretch). Even then Black Ops 2 has been getting criticized for it's similarity to prior CoD games, along with Halo 4.

It has been the same with many old franchises. That does not make them bad.

GTA, for example, started on the PlayStation 1. The basic formula is still the same after all these years. Yet people still get hard (me included) when they hear any news about a new GTA game.

I agree that Nintendo is still using the same basic formula for their old franchises. However, you buy a Mario game expecting a Mario game. Changing the formula completely is extremely risky. Sometimes it works (Resident Evil 4), sometimes it doesn't (Banjo K:Nuts and Bolts). Nintendo does some major gameplay variations on their basic formulas unlike the developers of CoD, Hhalo, AC etc.

Gamespot is calling Nintendo out on this while ignoring the torrents of developers who do the same shit.
 
SS brought a lot of innovations to the franchise, and some really important ones too. I really don't understand why people don't seem to acknowledge the fact and keep saying stuff like "Zelda needs to change"

they didn't play it or most of the Nintendo games they complain about
 
I just turned 40 and am doing fine by Nintendo. I even thought Skyward Sword did more than enough to begin "refreshing" Zelda and was a crisp, lively and involving experience. (Sorry Tom.)

Like some others have said, I don't play games in a vacuum. It kind of seems as if there's a certain stereotype that has settled in place: the "Nintendo gamer" is some kind of myopic fanboy who literally only plays Mario and Zelda games. Now, to be fair, there are some people who behave as if that's the case. Zelda in particular seems to suffer from fans who, by all outward appearances, have no life between Zelda releases, and become very angry when the next Zelda doesn't change their life and renew gaming.

There are some people who literally only play Super Mario Bros. 3 and spend a lot of time on the internet bitching about how everything else in the world sucks and Nintendo can't make games anymore.

But in my experience there's another kind of person: adults who till enjoy the full width of Nintendo's games tend, in reality, to be people with broad tastes. Almost every adult I know who fully enjoys Nintendo's catalog likes a lot of games. They also tend, make of it what you will, to not be console exclusive players. Most are heavy into PC games as well. Didn't anybody notice in all these Wii U threads, the number of people who mused that a Wii U plus their PC might be the combo they need for some time?

This also could be why the average adult Nintendo fan I am familiar with are not the fans screaming that every Zelda sucks because it's not like their sole favorite Zelda, not going on about how offensive NSMB is because it doesn't have Mario World sprites, and more often than not, actually enjoys the wiimote and motion controls (when done well). Again, broad tastes.



Most people seem excited because of the scope of the world and at the idea of flying around in a mech; nice graphics don't hurt, but that's not really the point.



I am gonna put this post into a frame and put the frame on a wall above my TV.
 
Trapped? I would argue that it's their legacy that keeps them relevant.

What they accomplished with the Mario Galaxy games on the Wii was nothing short of amazing. Those are two of the greatest platformers Nintendo has ever produced. Moving forward with the Wii U, if they're able to achieve that same level of quality I highly doubt anyone is going to have anything negative to say about their legacy.
 
sorry about the list... it's just a copy paste.


Nintendo Gamecube
Luigi's Mansion
Pikmin
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
GiFTPiA
Donkey Konga
Battalion Wars
Geist
Chibi-Robo!
Odama

Nintendo Wii
Art Style
Wii Sports
Excite Truck
Wii Play
Endless Ocean
Wii Fit
Wii Music
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Captain Rainbow
Common sense of people power TV
Tact of Magic
FlingSmash
Dynamic Slash
And-Kensaku
Pandora's Tower
Kiki Trick
Xenoblade Chronicles
The Last Story

Wii-Ware
Bonsai Barber
Rock N’ Roll Climber
PictureBook Games: Pop-Up Pursuit
You, Me and the Cubes
Eco Shooter: Plant 530
Snowpack Park
ThruSpace
Line Attack Heroes
Fluidity

Wii-U
P-100
Panorama View
Nintendo Land

Game Boy Advance
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
Napoleon
Kuririn
Horse Racing Creating Derby
Stafy
Tomato Adventure
WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$
Drill Dozer
Rhythm Tengoku
bit Generations

Nintendo DS
Polarium
Nintendogs
Jump Super Stars
Electroplankton
Big Brain Academy
Brain Age
Clubhouse Games
Magnetica
Elite Beat Agents
Hotel Dusk: Room 215
Trace Memory
Master of Illusion
Slide Adventure MAGKID
Soma Bringer
Jam with the Band
Fossil Fighters
Style Savvy
Glory of Heracles
Friend Collection
Walk with me! Do you know your walking routine?
Cooking Guide: Can't Decide What To Eat?

Dsi
Aura Aura Climber
Art Academy
Kappa Trail
Pinball Pulse: The Ancient Beckons

Nintendo 3ds
Steel Diver

3DS Ware
Freakyforms: Your Creations, Alive!
Pushmo
Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword
Dillon's Rolling Western
Ketzal's Corridors


sauce:
http://kyoto-report.wikidot.com/forum/t-469495

How is this thread still going?
 
To be fair, I suspect a principal reason people are going nuts about that GIF is because all that terrain is fully explorable. That's very much a gameplay factor.

bingo. in other games, if you land that mech it explodes and you fail the mission. in that game, if it's anything like Xenoblade, you'll be able to go anywhere and get out to walk around
 
To be fair, I suspect a principal reason people are going nuts about that GIF is because all that terrain is fully explorable. That's very much a gameplay factor.

They're going nuts about it because it looks graphically competent on a Nintendo console for the first time since 2004.
 
What the hell is "dark and mature" about Metroid? We're not confusing more realistic graphics as mature are we?

To be fair, many people do. If you're not arguing graphical factors, then Fire Emblem, Fire Emblem, Fire Emblem, so much Fire Emblem.
 
how about creating something new? when I mean new, I mean something BIG new

Sega used to create tons of new shit during its Dreamcast tenure, while Nintendo just peddles the same franchise over and over, stuck in 1994 mode.

You have been proven wrong several times in this thread. Nintendo is pushing tons of new games and franchises. The problem is, people don´t recognize them.

"Please Nintendo - make something different than Mario!"

"Ok, here you go - brand new game, brand new franchise"

"That does not count - it´s not a Mario game!

Repeat.
 
I doubt we'll see a Mario or Zelda game that strays to far from the established formula because it'll probably end up as a different game i.e. Yoshi's Island or Wario Land. The names comes with expectations so it's easier to give a new idea to another name to avoid confusion.
 
I don't agree with trying to twist Nintendo's strongest asset, their rich gaming history, and turning it into a liability.


They are constantly coming up with new games and ideas, but don't trust them enough to sell on their own so always stick their most popular characters in the lead roles. Mario Galaxy or Spirit Tracks are so far from Super Mario Bros and Legend of Zelda they might has well be different series.

I understand why they do it, its a safe bet, but since escapism and role play are a big part of gaming, some people are going to get bored with it regardless of the new game mechanics.
 
They're going nuts about it because it looks graphically competent on a Nintendo console for the first time since 2004.

Oh, that's why I thought it looked cool. I thought it was because I really enjoyed Xenoblade and am excited about the prospect of an even bigger game with the same density and sense of scale, but you got me.
 
sorry about the list... it's just a copy paste.


Nintendo Gamecube
Luigi's Mansion
Pikmin
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
GiFTPiA
Donkey Konga
Battalion Wars
Geist
Chibi-Robo!
Odama

Nintendo Wii
Art Style
Wii Sports
Excite Truck
Wii Play
Endless Ocean
Wii Fit
Wii Music
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Captain Rainbow
Common sense of people power TV
Tact of Magic
FlingSmash
Dynamic Slash
And-Kensaku
Pandora's Tower
Kiki Trick
Xenoblade Chronicles
The Last Story

Wii-Ware
Bonsai Barber
Rock N’ Roll Climber
PictureBook Games: Pop-Up Pursuit
You, Me and the Cubes
Eco Shooter: Plant 530
Snowpack Park
ThruSpace
Line Attack Heroes
Fluidity

Wii-U
P-100
Panorama View
Nintendo Land

Game Boy Advance
Golden Sun
Magical Vacation
Napoleon
Kuririn
Horse Racing Creating Derby
Stafy
Tomato Adventure
WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$
Drill Dozer
Rhythm Tengoku
bit Generations

Nintendo DS
Polarium
Nintendogs
Jump Super Stars
Electroplankton
Big Brain Academy
Brain Age
Clubhouse Games
Magnetica
Elite Beat Agents
Hotel Dusk: Room 215
Trace Memory
Master of Illusion
Slide Adventure MAGKID
Soma Bringer
Jam with the Band
Fossil Fighters
Style Savvy
Glory of Heracles
Friend Collection
Walk with me! Do you know your walking routine?
Cooking Guide: Can't Decide What To Eat?

Dsi
Aura Aura Climber
Art Academy
Kappa Trail
Pinball Pulse: The Ancient Beckons

Nintendo 3ds
Steel Diver

3DS Ware
Freakyforms: Your Creations, Alive!
Pushmo
Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword
Dillon's Rolling Western
Ketzal's Corridors


sauce:
http://kyoto-report.wikidot.com/forum/t-469495

Thank you.

Nintendo not creating new IPs is THE most annoying lie out there about them. Why it has continued in face of actual proof is something I really don't understand. Especailly since when it's brought up it can and has been refuted. It's not like it's hard to even check before one makes the claim either. Just like it's not hard to check in regards to Sony as well.
 
You have been proven wrong several times in this thread. Nintendo is pushing tons of new games and franchises. The problem is, people don´t recognize them.

"Please Nintendo - make something different than Mario!"

"Ok, here you go - brand new game, brand new franchise"

"That does not count - it´s not a Mario game!

Repeat.

"Nintendo, make new IPs!"

"Okay...here's 20 new ones. Everything from new adventure IPs to new sim IPs to new shooter IPs to new RPG IPs...we got you covered."

"All of those aren't relevant!"

"What? But we just..."

"They're not POPULAR so they don't count!!"
 
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