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[Hematocryal]

No one buys a WiiU for assassins's creed 3 or really ANY third party games. They buy it for the Mario and Zelda games and the other few new first party IP's. So until they make something that's theme is darker than sin itself, they will be "trapped" by their family friendly Mario legacy. They need another staple that doesn't coincide so much with Mario and Zelda. A new big hit. Something you can only buy on nintendo that is unlike anything else.

Not that this is something that can be controlled, but it's what it will take. How people react to the new idea is anyone's guess but it can't be family friendly, cartoony, or a platformer. It has to be uncharacteristic of them to break out of the stigma. Not that there's even a good reason for them to even do this, but I sure would be happy lol. What's wrong with being trapped in a very successful legacy?

 

[metalslimer]

Kinda, but Xenoblade seems to be an outlier because Nintendo took over an amazing studio whilst the game was already in development, I am very pleased they greenlighted X, however.

TW01 and Last Story, whilst published by Nintendo, aren't core projects that Nintendo have set out to design themselves, also doesn't anyone get the impression that TW101 is a low budget side project?



Nintendo fans shouldn't do a Halo Gaf and defend low standards and expectations, always ask for the moon, especially from Nintendo.

Only if you consider a game like Viewtiful Joe as a low budget side project.

Also by this train of logic it nullfies many of Sony "new IPs" this generation because Sony didn't own MM when LBP was made, they didn't own Sucker Punch until recently, they don't own Insomiac, Heavy Rain doesn't belong to them. If you just disregard games because the aren't internal you have to scratch out a lot of games

 

[JaxJag]

well, there's a huge list on the first page of the thread... you may want to check it.

Yes, but we're tired of Samus, Donkey Kong, and Kirby as well.

 

[jay]

Sega went all out on Shenmue, Jet Set Radio + tons of arcade titles such as Crazy Taxi, Daytona USA 2000 and etc on Dreamcast.

I just never saw this from Nintendo that is not Mario, Zelda, Metroid. That's all.

*await a quote reply with stupid sales figures

It's hardly stupid to point out that Sega left the console business after making many awesome Dreamcast games, the best of which, of course, was Shenmue I/II.

 

[zruben]

No one buys a WiiU for assassins's creed 3 or really ANY third party games. They buy it for the Mario and Zelda games and the other few new first party IP's. So until they make something that's theme is darker than sin itself, they will be "trapped" by their family friendly Mario legacy. They need another staple that doesn't coincide so much with Mario and Zelda. A new big hit. Something you can only buy on nintendo that is unlike anything else.

Not that this is something that can be controlled, but it's what it will take. How people react to the new idea is anyone's guess but it can't be family friendly, cartoony, or a platformer. It has to be uncharacteristic of them to break out of the stigma. Not that there's even a good reason for them to even do this, but I sure would be happy lol. What's wrong with being trapped in a very successful legacy?

there's nothing wrong... it's just a fun game to bash nintendo right now; don't take gaf too seriously.

 

[Conor 419]

These don't count because none of them are by an internal Nintendo studio (because Nintendo doesn't own Monolith Soft, except they do), nor did they have a marketing budget equal to Mass Effect 3's (because marketing budget=quality, evidently).

So please explain why Xenoblade is very much an exception in that sense, and also how Nintendo took over its development, rather than designing it from ground up?

 

[zruben]

Yes, but we're tired of Samus, Donkey Kong, and Kirby as well.

notsureifserious.jpg

 

[metalslimer]

So please explain why Xenoblade is very much an exception in that sense, and also how Nintendo took over its development, rather than designing it from ground up?

Xenoblade was in development back in 2006? Because that's when Nintendo bought Monolith. And honestly who gives a shit? Nintendo cancels games all the time. They could have easily cancelled it if they wanted to. It seems like everytime someone brings a game up there has to be an exception made because of ______

 

[Supermanisdead]

Sega went all out on Shenmue, Jet Set Radio + tons of arcade titles such as Crazy Taxi, Daytona USA 2000 and etc on Dreamcast.

I just never saw this from Nintendo that is not Mario, Zelda, Metroid. That's all.

*await a quote reply with stupid sales figures

Jesus, it's like some people are willfully ignorant in this thread.

 

[Hematocryal]

there's nothing wrong... it's just a fun game to bash nintendo right now; don't take gaf too seriously.

Don't get me wrong, by no means do I want to defuse this lol.

 

[Vire]

I don't have a problem with Nintendo making Mario and Zelda games till the end of time.

I do wish however they would introduce new noteworthy IP's developed in-house. The last great new thing Nintendo developed in this vein was Pikmin...

It would be amazing if the Super Mario Galaxy team created a new franchise from scratch, with new characters that could become just as iconic as Mario.

It's not like they don't have the talent... it's just how the resources are allocated to be making something far safer.

 

[electroplankton]

Xenoblade was in development back in 2006? Because that's when Nintendo bought Monolith.

I don't really think so. Xenoblade was announced in 2009, and it was in an early phase of development.

 

[Conor 419]

Only if you consider a game like Viewtiful Joe as a low budget side project.

Also by this train of logic it nullfies many of Sony "new IPs" this generation because Sony didn't own MM when LBP was made, they didn't own Sucker Punch until recently, they don't own Insomiac, Heavy Rain doesn't belong to them. If you just disregard games because the aren't internal you have to scratch out a lot of games

I guess I'll have to wait and see how TW01 turns out.

It doesn't nullify Sony, because Sony indisputably have an underlying philosophy of introducing risky IP's, and developing them on a near equal footing with the rest of their top tier IP's.

Xenoblade was in development back in 2006? Because that's when Nintendo bought Monolith.

2007 actually, it's feasible that development had started at this point. If not, good for Nintendo as this is exactly what I want to see them doing, but more.

 

[trixx]

To be honest i think there are people on both sides of the fence that are acting quite childish, and i know for a fact majority of you are older than me.

Does Nintendo rely on it's legacy? Yes
Has sony produced more original ips than Nintendo this gen? Yes
Does every company milk their franchises? Yes

At the end of the day this doesn't really matter. If you like Legend of Zelda, Mario, Pokemon w/e then keep buying those games, if you are tired of them then don't buy them or support Nintendo. I don't see what the big deal is here.

At the end of the day you are purchasing the products that you are interested, why are you guys making a big deal out of nothing.

 

[The Boat]

So please explain why Xenoblade is very much an exception in that sense, and also how Nintendo took over its development, rather than designing it from ground up?

Is this a fact? I've never heard of such a thing. Even if true, it hardly means anything. If they bought a studio working on such a project, continued to support and finance it and later finance a "sequel", it's a perfect legitimate example.

 

[Oersted]

Kinda, but Xenoblade seems to be an outlier because Nintendo took over an amazing studio whilst the game was already in development, I am very pleased they greenlighted X, however.

TW01 and Last Story, whilst published by Nintendo, aren't core projects that Nintendo have set out to design themselves, also doesn't anyone get the impression that TW101 is a low budget side project?

They need to keep expanding and buy another company or two. It saddens me when to see that almost all the internal studios are working on iterations. Sequels are fine, but I also want other new stuff.

Amazing.

"also doesn't anyone get the impression that TW101 is a low budget side project?"

Someone tweet this to Kamiya.

 

[JaxJag]

I was trying to decide on a new game for my 3DS earlier this week.

Came down to.

Mario Tenis Open
Mario Land 3D
Mario Kart 7
Paper Mario: Sticker Star
New Super Mario Bros 2

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

No one buys a WiiU for assassins's creed 3 or really ANY third party games. They buy it for the Mario and Zelda games and the other few new first party IP's. So until they make something that's theme is darker than sin itself, they will be "trapped" by their family friendly Mario legacy. They need another staple that doesn't coincide so much with Mario and Zelda. A new big hit. Something you can only buy on nintendo that is unlike anything else.

Not that this is something that can be controlled, but it's what it will take. How people react to the new idea is anyone's guess but it can't be family friendly, cartoony, or a platformer. It has to be uncharacteristic of them to break out of the stigma. Not that there's even a good reason for them to even do this, but I sure would be happy lol. What's wrong with being trapped in a very successful legacy?

They tried that on the GC(Eternal Darkness, alongside things such as Metroid Prime, MGS:TS, Rogue Squadron), it failed abysmally.

 

[Hematocryal]

I don't have a problem with Nintendo making Mario and Zelda games till the end of time.

I do wish however they would introduce new noteworthy IP's developed in-house. The last great new thing Nintendo developed in this vein was Pikmin...

It would be amazing if the Super Mario Galaxy team created a new franchise from scratch, with new characters that could become just as iconic as Mario.

It's not like they don't have the talent... it's just how the resources are allocated to be making something far safer.

YES! that's where I am! And if luck wanted to shine on me, it would be located in the horror genre side of things.

 

[Derrick01]

Dont care, im asking is it a new IP.

What do you mean you don't care?? Why are you bringing a non-nintendo game up in a thread about nintendo IPs?

 

[Conor 419]

Amazing.

"also doesn't anyone get the impression that TW101 is a low budget side project?"

Someone tweet this to Kamiya.

Right, so this is assuming

A| TW01 is in fact, really high budget
B| It's not a side project, especially not when Platinum are developing oh, you know, Bayonetta 2 AND Revengeance.

I like how you assume this is an insult to Platinum, jeez.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

What do you mean you don't care?? Why are you bringing a non-nintendo game up in a thread about nintendo IPs?

I just want to know what you think of it. Can I not ask you that?

 

[zruben]

I was trying to decide on a new game for my 3DS earlier this week.

Came down to.

Mario Tenis Open
Mario Land 3D
Mario Kart 7
Paper Mario: Sticker Star
New Super Mario Bros 2

your videogames research skill sucks.

 

[outunderthestars]

To be honest i think there are people on both sides of the fence that are acting quite childish, and i know for a fact majority of you are older than me.

Does Nintendo rely on it's legacy? Yes
Has sony produced more original ips than Nintendo this gen? Yes
Does every company milk their franchises? Yes

At the end of the day this doesn't really matter. If you like Legend of Zelda, Mario, Pokemon w/e then keep buying those games, if you are tired of them then don't buy them or support Nintendo. I don't see what the big deal is here.

At the end of the day you are purchasing the products that you are interested, why are you guys making a big deal out of nothing.

I wish I had the power to remove junior from your tag. This is an amazing post.

 

[Hematocryal]

They tried that on the GC(Eternal Darkness, alongside things such as Metroid Prime, MGS:TS, Rogue Squadron), it failed abysmally.

I don't know about ALL that but is Prime not considered by many to be one or the best games ever made? I guess it didn't sell well? That's a shame(I didn't care for it myself).

Also something darker that's an original concept by their best development team.

 

[The Light]

I don't think they're trapped by legacy. I haven't owned a nintendo console since the snes, but from my point of view they're giving the people what they want. I don't see many nintendo fans asking for a new ip.

Besides that a new ip isn't needed to do something different with gameplay. Nintendo has showcased that with all the different mario titles. Just because it uses the same ip doesn't mean it has to follow the gameplay elements of its past titles.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

What do you mean you don't care?? Why are you bringing a non-nintendo game up in a thread about nintendo IPs?

Because if you count Zombi U as a new IP, then KI could count as one too(not that either are).

 

[meta4]

That Sony loves reusing their IPs as well.

Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy
Jak II
Jak 3
Jak X
Daxter
Jak and Daxter: The Lost Frontier

Some new IP's from Sony this gen just for PS3 and that too only on the retail front.

Resistance
Uncharted
LBP
Heavy Rain
Infamous
Beyond
TLOU
Demon Souls
Puppeteer
Heavenly Sword etc..

I am not going to list stuff like Sports Champions, Wonderbook, Heroes on the move etc because those are not the games I would consider seriously as new IP's just as I would not consider stuff like Captain Rainbow, Wii Fit etc as examples of Nintendo being serious about creating new IP's. for reasons already discussed in the thread. It is harsh to say Sony just recycles old IP's like Nintedo but not mention the other side.

I can however see them really interested in creating ambitious new IP's with the WiiU though. Really like what they are doing so far.

 

[Castle Doctrine]

Just for fun:

God of War
God of War II
God of War: Betrayal
God of War: Chains of Olympus
God of War Collection
God of War III
God of War: Ghost of Sparta
God of War: Origins Collection
God of War Saga
God of War Ascen.

You keep posting these lists and you're actually not helping your point. Some people, including reviewers, were already complaining about God of War being samey and getting franchise fatigue by God of War 3. Same with Uncharted 3, Ratchet and Clank and to a lesser extent Gran Turismo.

Even so, Uncharted, God of War and Assassin's Creed are still not good comparisons because they're relatively new compared to Zelda and Mario. If the only real new thing about Uncharted 4 is amazing graphics I guarantee people will grumble about it.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Right, so this is assuming

A| TW01 is in fact, really high budget
B| It's not a side project, especially not when Platinum are developing oh, you know, Bayonetta 2, AND Revengeance.

Because no company can make three projects at once and have them get equal attention in house.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I was trying to decide on a new game for my 3DS earlier this week.

Came down to.

Mario Tenis Open
Mario Land 3D
Mario Kart 7
Paper Mario: Sticker Star
New Super Mario Bros 2

Get 3D Land, skip all the rest.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Because if you count Zombi U as a new IP, then KI could count as one too(not that either are).

Yep.

 

[Roman]

Right, so this is assuming

A| TW01 is in fact, really high budget
B| It's not a side project, especially not when Platinum are developing oh, you know, Bayonetta 2, AND Revengeance.

I like how you assume this is an insult to Platinum, jeez.

They have different teams and directors. This is the only announced game Kamiya is currently directing. He wrote himself this is his biggest focus.

I also don't see how this is relevant.

 

[Conor 419]

Because no company can make three projects at once and have them get equal attention in house.

lol if you think they aren't prioritising a game from the Metal Gear franchise, over TW01.

They have different teams and directors. This is the only announced game Kamiya is currently directing. He wrote himself this is his biggest focus.

His

Kamiya is one person, Platinum employ in the hundreds.

I also don't see how this is relevant.

It is relevant is it's not a new internal Nintendo title on the same level as Mario or Zelda, which is what many people would love to see happen.

 

[jay]

Amazing.

What's amazing exactly, that I want Nintendo developers to make some new stuff along with the sequels? Nintendo has some of the best designers in the world; Platinum, Retro, Monolith, Treasure, or whoever else making a new game with Nintendo publishing is not the same as Nintendo developing those games, and when you look at what the core R&D teams are doing at Nintendo, they're largely iterating.

 

[Roman]

lol if you think they aren't prioritising a game from the Metal Gear franchise, over TW01.



His

Kamiya is one person, Platinum employ in the hundreds.

I honestly don't see your point. Another big part of Platinum is working on Bayonetta. The majority of their budget is spent on Wii U games that Nintendo is funding. Are you arguing Nintendo is not investing enough?

 

[Laguna]

You keep posting these lists and you're actually not helping your point. Some people, including reviewers, were already complaining about God of War being samey and getting franchise fatigue by God of War 3. Same with Uncharted 3, Ratchet and Clank and to a lesser extent Gran Turismo.

Even so, Uncharted, God of War and Assassin's Creed are still not good comparisons because they're relatively new compared to Zelda and Mario. If the only real new thing about Uncharted 4 is amazing graphics I guarantee people will grumble about it.

The point is Mario Kart is alot older but is getting surpassed by God of War in quantity.

 

[saichi]

It's overly defensive to pretend Zelda has major, fundamental changes each game. It's disingenuous and forced. You can't possibly believe the Twilight Realm in TP is noteworthy enough to list as an example of major change.

And the change of art style from MM to WW is not?

So you have to follow a game closely to be aware of these things. Meanwhile I can't go to a 7-11 without seeing adverts for Gears or CoD.

I saw one ad for Halo 4 last year. MS must not push Halo 4 hard at all.

It about the genres, as stated earlier. They seem reluctant to make new IPs in house in the Mario/Zelda/Mario Kart genres (three of the biggest). Where is a new action/adventure IP (something as fresh as StarTropics for its time)? Where is the new 3D platformer IP (e.g., Banjo-Kazooie (obviously not directly made by Nintendo))? Where is the new racing IP (Wave Race, F-Zero, etc.)? Their philosophy seems to be to not want to use in-house studios to make new IPs in these critical genres, and its an interesting point of discussion. Its a trade-off between risk of new IPs versus fatigue from these genres seeing the same characters.

Why would they release new IPs on genres they already have established IP in? What they did was even better. Creating a new genre with a new game (Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Brain Age, Nintendogs etc) then become the establish IP in the new genre.

That's the difference here. When a Sony team wants to do a new IP, Sony gets behind it, they market the hell out of it, they spin up the hype machine, they treat it like an event. If Naughty Dog wants to abandon Jak and do a new series, if they want to abandon Uncharted and do Last of Us, Sony says go for it, we'll put everything we can behind it.

When a proven Nintendo team wants to make a new IP, we get Drill Dozer and Pushmo. Good games, sure, but they're clearly just side-diversions that Nintendo entertains inbetween putting the devs to work on the same ol' tentpole franchises they've always done. And it doesn't feel like even that is a thing that many teams at Nintendo have liberty to do. If the Zelda team wanted to take a break from Zelda and make a new IP, could they? If EAD Tokyo said they didn't want to do Mario and instead wanted a similar budget to do some new IP they had in mind, would they not be laughed out of the room? It definitely doesn't feel that way.

Why is that though? Especially considering that a lot of these IP's aren't easily remembered. An argument can be made that Nintendo is unwilling to push these new IP's with the same vigor that they push the Classics.

New IPs that Nintendo pushed and became successful are the IPs that some don't want to accept. (see the 4 titles above) All 4 of them sold over 20 millions each.

I pretty clearly stated major IPs and went even further as saying stuff on mario and zelda's budget. That is what people want from Nintendo, not Wii sports which is a joke of a game. I don't care if it sold 800 million copies to every person who never touched a game before in their lives, we're not talking about sales.

That's a pretty bizzare definition of major IP.

Title A: big budget and scope like Zelda and sells 500K WW
Title B: small budget like *name your title here* and sells 10 millions WW

By your definition, title A would be a major IP. However, for majority of the rest of us, title B would be the major IP.

In other words, sales flop like Homefront and Darksider with 120 mil and 80 mil budget each, would be major IPs for you but Wii Sports or Wii Fit would not be.

The Wii____ series is bigger than any Sony IP other than GT.

Actually Wii series is much bigger than GT.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

lol if you think they aren't prioritising a game from the Metal Gear franchise, over TW01.



His

Kamiya is one person, Platinum employ in the hundreds.

Just because one game gets priority doesn't mean the others are side projects. They have three games in development. Side project makes it sound like they're doing it in their free time. There is a team working on 101. By your logic everything not getting made by the lead Mario team at Nintendo is now a side project.

 

[Plinko]

Yes, but we're tired of Samus, Donkey Kong, and Kirby as well.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Conor 419]

I honestly don't see your point. Another big part of Platinum is working on Bayonetta. The majority of their budget is spent on Wii U games that Nintendo is funding. Are you arguing Nintendo is not investing enough?

I think it's reasonable that people would like Nintendo to take a risk and develop something completely different, yet with the budget and care of a core Mario or Zelda game.

.

Just because one game gets priority doesn't mean the others are side projects. They have three games in development. Side project makes it sound like they're doing it in their free time. There is a team working on 101. By your logic everything not getting made by the lead Mario team at Nintendo is now a side project.

No, that is not 'by [my] logic' at all, what.the.fuck.

I have large doubts that Platinum can simultaneously develop three major titles, especially when one is of the Metal Gear series and another is Bayonetta 2. This is not an unreasonable assumption.

 

[The Boat]

Right, so this is assuming

A| TW01 is in fact, really high budget
B| It's not a side project, especially not when Platinum are developing oh, you know, Bayonetta 2, AND Revengeance.

I like how you assume this is an insult to Platinum, jeez.

This and Derrick's posts are a good of example of why I find the current "core gaming" crowd so sad. Not only does a game need to have a huge budget, huge marketing push and large scale to even be considered worthwhile, if it's colorful it's a side project. It doesn't matter if it's being done by a phenomenal director that proved his worth numerous times and is worshipped by GAF. It's a side project because it doesn't adhere to some narrow definition of what make games worthwhile.

Well, I won't tell anyone what to like or dislike, I'm just glad I can enjoy a good game for being just that: a good game.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I guess I'll have to wait and see how TW01 turns out.

It doesn't nullify Sony, because Sony indisputably have an underlying philosophy of introducing risky IP's, and developing them on a near equal footing with the rest of their top tier IP's.



2007 actually, it's feasible that development had started at this point. If not, good for Nintendo as this is exactly what I want to see them doing, but more.

Nintendo purchased Monolith when it was a one project team. They were working on Disaster: Day of Crisis when Nintendo purchased them which Nintendo published.

 

[Derrick01]

Because if you count Zombi U as a new IP, then KI could count as one too(not that either are).

What was the old game in the ZombiU franchise? I've never heard of it being a sequel or continuation of something. Kid Icarus definitely doesn't count though, it had a game on the NES. Just because it was 20 years later doesn't make it a new IP. Prince of Persia Sands of Time wasn't a new IP either.

 

[Roman]

.

So are you saying Nintendo is not investing enough in Platinum? Are Bayonetta 2 and W101 not enough? Are these not risks? Is X not a risk?

 

[ozfunghi]

They are all B-tier games at best though. Nintendo's money titles remain the obvious 4 or 5.

lolz

Pokemon?
Nintendogs?
Animal Crossing?
Mario?
Mario Kart?
Zelda?
Super Smash Bros?
Wii Fit?
Brain Training?
...

And let's casually ignore "merely" million sellers such as:
Metroid (prime)
Advance Wars
Paper Mario
Donkey Kong (Country)
F-Zero
Pikmin
Starfox
...



boy oh boy

lol

Article should be named "are videogames trapped by their legacy". Nintendo releases 1 or 2 games per IP per platform, yet the worst offenders by many if not most other developers and publishers are conveniently forgotten. Oh Gamespot.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

What was the old game in the ZombiU franchise? I've never heard of it being a sequel or continuation of something. Kid Icarus definitely doesn't count though, it had a game on the NES. Just because it was 20 years later doesn't make it a new IP. Prince of Persia Sands of Time wasn't a new IP either.

It was just called Zombi.

 

[Roman]

What was the old game in the ZombiU franchise? I've never heard of it being a sequel or continuation of something. Kid Icarus definitely doesn't count though, it had a game on the NES. Just because it was 20 years later doesn't make it a new IP. Prince of Persia Sands of Time wasn't a new IP either.

First game Ubisoft published:

 

[mclem]

It's true that they've developed a lot of new IP, yes. Now let's name the new IP they actually developed, promoted, and marketed as though they had the vaguest intention of crafting it into a success that could stand alongside or supplant their more common IP, rather than a one-and-done side experiment.

But isn't the point more that their methods mean that they *start* with side experiments, and the ones that take off have the potential to become a lasting IP? A little like Rovio in that regard, I guess.

I just... don't really see anything inherently faulty with that approach.

 

[Roman]

lolz

Pokemon?
Nintendogs?
Animal Crossing?
Mario?
Mario Kart?
Zelda?
Super Smash Bros?
Wii Fit?
Brain Training?
...

And let's casually forget about "merely" million sellers such as:
Metroid (prime)
Advance Wars
Paper Mario
Donkey Kong (Country)
F-Zero
Pikmin
Starfox
...



boy oh boy

lol

Donkey Kong clearly belongs in the upper list. I continue being perplexed why Metroid keeps being listed as a "major" franchise, when DK and Kirby outsell it by a factor of up to 10.